CPR patch Framerates

Can someone thats gotten the patch elaborate on the frame rate? Especially someone with a system close to a P200/32megs/3dfx. If people are now getting acceptable framerates with their Monster3d then I think I'll pick 'er up! Take care, Tony Gaylord - Portland, OR

I've been waiting for comments on the patch beta here, and I was wondering why people were so quiet about it, now I know why! It makes sense though, why post about problems in a beta when they will most likely be fixed anyway! I'll wait and see what the final version of the patch is like before I make my decision on buying CPR. Later, John

> Can someone thats gotten the patch elaborate on the frame >rate? Especially someone with a system close to a P200/32megs/3dfx. No, Microsoft has asked beta testers not to comment publicaly until the patch is finished, that's why you haven't seen any additional posts after that first one. Irritating for people who want the info, I know, but not altogether unreasonable - for example I'm having some kind of basic DirectX setup problem with the patch that is clearly affecting my performance, so my fps numbers at this point would be more misleading than anything. Joe

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> >No, Microsoft has asked beta testers not to comment publicaly until > >the patch is finished, that's why you haven't seen any additional > >posts after that first one. Irritating for people who want the info, I > >know, but not altogether unreasonable - for example I'm having some > >kind of basic DirectX setup problem with the patch that is clearly > >affecting my performance, so my fps numbers at this point would be > >more misleading than anything. > I've been waiting for comments on the patch beta here, and I was > wondering why people were so quiet about it, now I know why! It makes > sense though, why post about problems in a beta when they will most > likely be fixed anyway! I'll wait and see what the final version of > the patch is like before I make my decision on buying CPR. > Later, > John

John, I'm also a tester for CART and I would like to report to you guys also but we've been asked not to, while I dont necessarily agree with this policy, it isnt up to me to decide and I respect those who made the decision. Just suffice it to say that when you are ready to buy, CART will be worth the money :)! Trev

snip > John, I'm also a tester for CART and I would like to report to you guys > also but we've been asked not to, while I dont necessarily agree with > this policy, it isnt up to me to decide and I respect those who made the > decision. Just suffice it to say that when you are ready to buy, CART > will be worth the money :)! Buy? Most "whiners" (incl. me) are only ready to TRY the PATCHED demo! If that's good, I'll buy... Still hoping ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Hmmmm, Well I rec the Beta Patch and am looking at the letter right now and I dont see where it says not to comment on the patch. It does say send your questions and feedback to Microsoft but doesnt say I cant give feedback anywhere else! Oh well I guess I will have to go along with the "Gentlemans agreement" and not say anymore about the patch....well except for I LIKE IT!!! George Sandman Stealth Racing #1 1997 CICC PPG Champion 1996 CICC PPG Champion 1996 NWSICT PPG Champion 1996 FRL PPG Champion

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>snip >> John, I'm also a tester for CART and I would like to report to you guys >> also but we've been asked not to, while I dont necessarily agree with >> this policy, it isnt up to me to decide and I respect those who made the >> decision. Just suffice it to say that when you are ready to buy, CART >> will be worth the money :)! >Buy? Most "whiners" (incl. me) are only ready to TRY the PATCHED demo! >If that's good, I'll buy... >Still hoping >ronny >-- > |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, > ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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> > >No, Microsoft has asked beta testers not to comment publicaly until > > >the patch is finished, that's why you haven't seen any additional > > >posts after that first one. Irritating for people who want the info, I > > >know, but not altogether unreasonable - for example I'm having some > > >kind of basic DirectX setup problem with the patch that is clearly > > >affecting my performance, so my fps numbers at this point would be > > >more misleading than anything. > > I've been waiting for comments on the patch beta here, and I was > > wondering why people were so quiet about it, now I know why! It makes > > sense though, why post about problems in a beta when they will most > > likely be fixed anyway! I'll wait and see what the final version of > > the patch is like before I make my decision on buying CPR. > > Later, > > John > John, I'm also a tester for CART and I would like to report to you guys > also but we've been asked not to, while I dont necessarily agree with > this policy, it isnt up to me to decide and I respect those who made the > decision. Just suffice it to say that when you are ready to buy, CART > will be worth the money :)! > Trev

Don't you guys think that I have the right to know what's going on with the patch or any other issues related to this sim since I already bought it? It cost $50.00 of my money and the fact that there is a patch being worked on proves that the game is not where TR wanted it to be by the time of it's release. Personally, I don't think they needed to get feedback from RAS on all of it's problems. I think they were well aware of them. Sal V. This article was posted from <A HREF="http://www.slurp.net/">Slurp Net</A>.

It was in the e-mail you and I got... ;) Marc

No. The fact that you know the patch is coming out is enough, and anything beyond that would only serve to spark off yet more counter-productive discussion and detract from the business of getting the patch done. If you spoke out at the time of release (and were polite, of course!) then your voice will have been heard and thoughts taken on board if possible. What's to say beyond that? Cheers! John

patch or any other issues related to this sim since I already bought it? First of all, whether you have the right to hear something about the patch is an issue you should take up with MS, not those of us who are beta testers. We can only honor Microsoft's request that we not discuss the what's in the patch. on proves that the game is not where TR wanted it to be by the time of it's release. >> Great. That also means that 90% of the games you've ever bought fall into this category as well, since almost every game out sees one or more patches after release. So congratulations, you've managed to condemn the entire *** industry with something that isn't news by portraying it as if it is. it's problems. I think they were well aware of them.>> That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. At any rate, the patch is in beta form right now, and its possible things would change. Can you not see why Microsoft would not prefer testers to not comment here about things that might be changed again before the final patch gets released? Especially in light of the nature of the posts they've gotten here? Why start a 3 week flame war over something that will get changed anyway?! Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage [link lost in import]

> Hmmmm, Well I rec the Beta Patch and am looking at the letter right now and > I dont see where it says not to comment on the patch. It does say send your > questions and feedback to Microsoft but doesnt say I cant give feedback > anywhere else! Oh well I guess I will have to go along with the > "Gentlemans agreement" and not say anymore about the patch....well except > for I LIKE IT!!! We were asked to keep quiet via an email message from John at MS, maybe he missed sending to to you so technically I guess you could post about it but I wouldnt if I were you. Must say I agree with you about the patch results though :)! Trev

OK, I've read the posts about having to keep quit about the patch but without going into a great deal of detail, can you use ONE word to describe the framerate in camparison to the original release? Remember, in _comparison_ to the old version or demo. Just a thought ;) Tony Gaylord - Portland, OR Home of the CART Budweiser/GI Joes 200

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> >Don't you guys think that I have the right to know what's going on with > >the patch or any other issues related to this sim since I already bought > >it? > No. > The fact that you know the patch is coming out is enough, and anything > beyond that would only serve to spark off yet more counter-productive > discussion and detract from the business of getting the patch done. If > you spoke out at the time of release (and were polite, of course!) > then your voice will have been heard and thoughts taken on board if > possible. What's to say beyond that? > Cheers! > John

I guess it would be good to know a time frame for the patch, vis-a-vis the time frame in which one could get one's money back for the original purchase of the unfinished game. Bart Brown

<<...can you use ONE word to describe the framerate in camparison to the original release?>> ...different? ;)Bart

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>> Hmmmm, Well I rec the Beta Patch and am looking at the letter right now and >> I dont see where it says not to comment on the patch. It does say send your >> questions and feedback to Microsoft but doesnt say I cant give feedback >> anywhere else! Oh well I guess I will have to go along with the >> "Gentlemans agreement" and not say anymore about the patch....well except >> for I LIKE IT!!! >We were asked to keep quiet via an email message from John at MS, maybe >he missed sending to to you so technically I guess you could post about >it but I wouldnt if I were you. Must say I agree with you about the >patch results though :)! >Trev

All this "I know something you don't know" is making me ill. Wayne Darinzo

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> >Don't you guys think that I have the right to know what's going on with > >the patch or any other issues related to this sim since I already bought > >it? > No. > The fact that you know the patch is coming out is enough, and anything > beyond that would only serve to spark off yet more counter-productive > discussion and detract from the business of getting the patch done. If > you spoke out at the time of release (and were polite, of course!) > then your voice will have been heard and thoughts taken on board if > possible. What's to say beyond that? > Cheers! > John

Well John I strongly disagree. Here's why. I've already purchased the sim so if a patch is being worked on why do I have to wait until _OTHERS_ test this patch? Why can't eveyone who has purchased the sim have a go at the patch and then voice their opinions here for MS, TR and everyone else in the RAS? Isn't this infact what MS/TR have already done once? Am I correct in assuming that most of the so called beta-testers are the same people who tested the sim before it's release? Again, I feel this way based on the fact that I've already purchased the sim. We should all have a chance to try it and discuss it. Sure this will happen after the patch is released to the public but it just might be too late by then. The leaste MS/TR can do for all the folks that didn't give up on this sim is allow us (ALL OF US) to help make it better. How this can be counter-productive I'll never know! Sal V. This article was posted from <A HREF="[link lost in import]>Slurp Net</A>.

Um, I don't know about the others but I didn't test the game the first go around. Thanks John

have to wait until _OTHERS_ test this patch? >> Because its not done. If you wish to be a beta tester, you should contact Microsoft. voice their opinions here for MS, TR and everyone else in the RAS? >> uh, because its a beta, that's why. It means that the code is not done. It means that it could cause my monitor to explode, that's why. :) No, there's a difference. When you ship something, and it does something like say, format your hard drive, you might be liable since your product damaged someone else's software or hardware. However, if you're beta testing, you're agreeing that you're using software which the company provides is not going to provide any guarantees with and you assume all risks of using that software. So a beta tester not only gets the bug fixes, but they also might get a new bug in the code which might, say, wipe out your registry. By limiting the # of people who are testing this pre-release software, they increase their ability to determine that the fixes are "safe" without assuming the additional risk of exposing the public at large to possibly dangerous code. same people who tested the sim before it's release?>> No you are not. I did not test this sim before its release. sim. We should all have a chance to try it and discuss it. Sure this will happen after the patch is released to the public but it just might be too late by then. >> Its never too late to patch. :). I'm sure we'll have more gripes no matter what they do, and I'm sure this isn't the last patch we're going to see of this product. didn't give up on this sim is allow us (ALL OF US) to help make it better. How this can be counter-productive I'll never know!>> I hope now you do a little more. If you really feel strongly that you should be a beta tester, drop a private line to MS and tell them. Its not the kind of thing that's handled in a public forum. Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:40:13 -0500, Barton Spencer Brown >I guess it would be good to know a time frame for the patch, vis-a-vis >the time frame in which one could get one's money back for the original >purchase of the unfinished game. It would be good, but you bought the game not the patch - I don't think that gives you any "rights" to know additional info about the patch. That's not to say MS shouldn't say, but the question was whether or not you had a right to know, not what is morally obligated. IMO giving more info would simply fuel the fires of the discussion, something Dean was doing his best to quell since it wasn't the best publicity for the game. Cheers! John

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> >> Hmmmm, Well I rec the Beta Patch and am looking at the letter right now and > >> I dont see where it says not to comment on the patch. It does say send your > >> questions and feedback to Microsoft but doesnt say I cant give feedback > >> anywhere else! Oh well I guess I will have to go along with the > >> "Gentlemans agreement" and not say anymore about the patch....well except > >> for I LIKE IT!!! > >We were asked to keep quiet via an email message from John at MS, maybe > >he missed sending to to you so technically I guess you could post about > >it but I wouldnt if I were you. Must say I agree with you about the > >patch results though :)! > >Trev > All this "I know something you don't know" is making me ill. > Wayne Darinzo

tough

Trev, I can see how Wayne may be frustrated. If he purchased the original version of CPR, he too is a beta tester. ;-) By the way, I have a sneaking suspicion the my wife may be making the most wonderful of all holiday gestures and getting me a TSW for Christmas. Can you keep a secret? Jim > > All this "I know something you don't know" is making me ill. > > Wayne Darinzo > tough

> >> I've already purchased the sim so if a patch is being worked on why do I > have to wait until _OTHERS_ test this patch? >> > Because its not done. If you wish to be a beta tester, you should contact > Microsoft. I didn't have to contact them all I had to do is buy the sim. I've beta-tested before, I know how that goes. We're talking about a patch here not a whole re-write. (I guess :)) I doubt it will blow up my monitor. How can adding even the most limited amout of AI format my HD? Don't answer that! :) Sure you did, maybe not before it's release but soon there after. We all did! IMO the sim was simply not finished. It is good to know that there are "new" beta-testers involved though. Amen to that. Well I never wanted to beta-test this sim in the first place. I simply wanted to purchase it and have it perform the way all of the adverti***ts say it should. Randy, Here's my question to you. Do you or do you not believe that CPR was finished before it's release. It's a simple yes or no answer. Please don't tell me about things like it being relative to what eveyone calls "finished". Another thought that keeps entering my mind is this Dean guy. Why would MS have him planted in RAS if he wasn't here to put out all the fires. Again, IMO this whole deal smells fishy. Release the game though not complete (X-mas rush) and have a customer suport rep. handle all of the complaints. A human pacifier if you will. I feel that RAS and all the other respectable news groups play a huge role in sim SW sales and gather MS/TR would agree, especially a racing sim. I like CPR, it should be obviuos. There's nothing more aggravating than having a sim or game that's almost there but falls short. The $50.00 is long gone and I had the choice to return that sim after 10 days. I chose to keep it based on it's potential and what I've read here. So now that a patch is being tested to fix my broken purchase, I feel I have a right to know all about it. Plain & simple! Sal V. This article was posted from <A HREF="[link lost in import]>Slurp Net</A>.

>Another thought that keeps entering my mind is this Dean guy. Why would >MS have him planted in RAS if he wasn't here to put out all the fires. >Again, IMO this whole deal smells fishy. Release the game though not >complete (X-mas rush) and have a customer suport rep. handle all of the >complaints. Hi Sal, Not a flame, but if you followed all the bashing over the past couple of weeks you should know that Dean heads the entire simulation division at Microsoft. He's not a support rep, and he doesn't just handle CART. He handles EVERYTHING that touches simulation at Microsoft. Given the number of employees and products he is managing, along with a new baby daughter, I'm surprised he even has time to answer as many posts as he did. Given his influence and probably what his salary is, most people should be shocked someone that high up in the organization actually cares enough for their product to spend time with the user base to get feedback. Also, since you mentioned you've tested for other firms before, you should know that doing a general beta release is insane. The developers end up getting so many duplicate reports that figuring out what actually needs attention and what is simply a variation on a bug report gets ridiculous. That is why most companies want small groups of well dedicated, informed testers. They'll get much more useful information that being flooded by thousands. Rich

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> Trev, > I can see how Wayne may be frustrated. If he purchased the original > version of CPR, he too is a beta tester. ;-) > By the way, I have a sneaking suspicion the my wife may be making the > most wonderful of all holiday gestures and getting me a TSW for > Christmas. Can you keep a secret? > Jim

Hi Jim, that was just my frustration with all the ***ing about CART showing through, we all know it isnt right yet, we also know that TRI will keep working on it until it is as good as it can be without a total rewrite. I remember the same thing when ICR1 came out and it was a hell of a lot longer before papy did anything about it, same with ICR2, N1, N2 etc. At least we're seeing a trend of releasing patched right away TRI, Ubi etc instead of months or years later ala Papy. I do think this will have a positive effect though as most sim publishers will be forced to act sooner due to the examples being set by these guys, that is if they plan to stay in business :). As far as your Xmas present goes, I can keep a secret, especially if it invloves me making money<g>! Trev

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> Hi Jim, that was just my frustration with all the ***ing about CART > showing through, we all know it isnt right yet, we also know that TRI > will keep working on it until it is as good as it can be without a total > rewrite. > I remember the same thing when ICR1 came out and it was a hell of a lot > longer before papy did anything about it, same with ICR2, N1, N2 etc. At > least we're seeing a trend of releasing patched right away TRI, Ubi etc > instead of months or years later ala Papy. > I do think this will have a positive effect though as most sim > publishers will be forced to act sooner due to the examples being set by > these guys, that is if they plan to stay in business :). > As far as your Xmas present goes, I can keep a secret, especially if it > invloves me making money<g>! > Trev

Good point Trev but lets not set our standards to low and become overly accepting. I see no reason why a game should be released in this shape. Lets not forget GP2 (though the fact it is such a cpu hog is a drawback). I never had to patch N1 or N2, but I have not used N2 too much. CPR is a blatant case of "get it out before the other guy" and "get it out for Xmas". I an so turned off by this that if F1RS does the job, I may never get CPR or not until it's selling for 1/2 price.

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> Good point Trev but lets not set our standards to low and become > overly accepting. I see no reason why a game should be released in this > shape. Lets not forget GP2 (though the fact it is such a cpu hog is a > drawback). I never had to patch N1 or N2, but I have not used N2 too > much. CPR is a blatant case of "get it out before the other guy" and > "get it out for Xmas". I an so turned off by this that if F1RS does the > job, I may never get CPR or not until it's selling for 1/2 price.

Byron, I find myself basically in agreement with you on most points but lets not lose sight of the fact that this is both MS and TRI's first attempt at a serious sim and they dont have the years of experience that Papy and Geoff Crammond have. I suppose we could blame it all on the old "get it out now, we'll fix it later" syndrome but still we have to allow for the inexperience factor. Obviously there were problems with the sim, we all know it but OTOH both MS and TRI are working with us beta testers to fix it. I cant go into detail because we've been asked not to but one thing I can tell you CART after the patch is a whole different ballgame :) and this is just the first beta patch. Trev

snip Not a flame, too, but why do you feel sorry for a company rep who listens to a lot of reasonable complaints about a faulty product? l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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> > Good point Trev but lets not set our standards to low and become > > overly accepting. I see no reason why a game should be released in this > > shape. Lets not forget GP2 (though the fact it is such a cpu hog is a > > drawback). I never had to patch N1 or N2, but I have not used N2 too > > much. CPR is a blatant case of "get it out before the other guy" and > > "get it out for Xmas". I an so turned off by this that if F1RS does the > > job, I may never get CPR or not until it's selling for 1/2 price. > Byron, I find myself basically in agreement with you on most points but > lets not lose sight of the fact that this is both MS and TRI's first > attempt at a serious sim and they dont have the years of experience that > Papy and Geoff Crammond have. > I suppose we could blame it all on the old "get it out now, we'll fix it > later" syndrome but still we have to allow for the inexperience factor. > Obviously there were problems with the sim, we all know it but OTOH both > MS and TRI are working with us beta testers to fix it.

I think this point is basically irrelevent. I think the point is that the "inexperience factor" should have simply meant more time to develope. I can still remember when the release date for CPR was early 98 and the way things look, that's about when it will be ready - hopefully. Anyone, reguardless of experience, can see this title was released WAY too soon.

% Byron, I find myself basically in agreement with you on most points but % lets not lose sight of the fact that this is both MS and TRI's first % attempt at a serious sim and they dont have the years of experience that % Papy and Geoff Crammond have. It may be their first "serious" sim, but the same company did work on MTM and are apparently working on MTM II. Therefore it isn't really their first experience in programming auto simulations. I am sure they have borrowed quite a bit from their experience with MTM. I am also sure they had more resources available to them than Ubisoft and I would consider Ubisoft to be on about the same level of "playing field" as TRI. This is not a slam, just an observation. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>Byron, I find myself basically in agreement with you on most points but >lets not lose sight of the fact that this is both MS and TRI's first >attempt at a serious sim and they dont have the years of experience that >Papy and Geoff Crammond have. That is no excuse for releasing a blatently faulty product. Bull. This is good. You sure are doing allot of talking for a beta tester who is supposed to keep it quiet. Of course I am sure I am way out of line here. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Are you talking about the game or the patch? Both are beta. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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> > Byron, I find myself basically in agreement with you on most points but > > lets not lose sight of the fact that this is both MS and TRI's first > > attempt at a serious sim and they dont have the years of experience that > > Papy and Geoff Crammond have. > > I suppose we could blame it all on the old "get it out now, we'll fix it > > later" syndrome but still we have to allow for the inexperience factor. > > Obviously there were problems with the sim, we all know it but OTOH both > > MS and TRI are working with us beta testers to fix it. > I think this point is basically irrelevent. I think the point is > that the "inexperience factor" should have simply meant more time to > develope. I can still remember when the release date for CPR was early > 98 and the way things look, that's about when it will be ready - > hopefully. Anyone, reguardless of experience, can see this title was > released WAY too soon.

And if u look at F1RS you know it's possible to do it right the first time... ;^) Of course, give or take a few MINOR problems. l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Which reminds me. Tri have experience with POD too.

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> > It may be their first "serious" sim, but the same company did work on > > MTM and are apparently working on MTM II. Therefore it isn't really > > their first experience in programming auto simulations. I am sure they > > have borrowed quite a bit from their experience with MTM. I am also > > sure they had more resources available to them than Ubisoft and I would > > consider Ubisoft to be on about the same level of "playing field" as > > TRI. This is not a slam, just an observation. > Which reminds me. Tri have experience with POD too.

Eeeeh, POD is from UbiSoft... l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

> > Which reminds me. Tri have experience with POD too. > Eeeeh, POD is from UbiSoft... Oops. One of those posts I should have done the next day instead of just before going to bed (yawn). "Now, have I done this right? :))))"