The Dean / CPR irony is ...

If I just read about all the trouble many people were having with CPR, and the many disappointing posts, I probably would have deferred buying CPR until the general tone of experiences here were a bit more positive. It was largely because of Deans' participation that I bought the full version of the game. Even though I was very disappointed with the demo, and also with the full version for that matter, I did take reassurance from Deans that MS would be not be abandoning this project after the first release. I bought it not because I was happy with the way it was but in good faith that MS will improve it over time. How far MS will improve it I suppose only time will tell but my impressions from Dean were such that I'm willing to take the chance on it and give them the benefit of the doubt. Yes it certainly was a big disappointment. Especially after the very high expectations. Many people obviously feel the same. It seems that I'm one of those who happen to have a system on which the game is simply hopeless to drive. Good luck to all those who haven't found this to be the case but there does seem to be lots of folks who unfortunately have a more negative experience with the game. I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that MS were at least willing if not even openly inviting the ras people to make critical assessments of this product. That's exactly what many people did. I didn't think the tone was too abusive. Harsh at times perhaps, short to the point, and using street vernacular rather than purely technical terms. But I thought the general tone was more or less acceptable. I've been visiting newsgroups here and forums on Compuserve before that for what amounts to a few years now. Maybe I'm just used to the hard nosed way people tend to express themselves in this kind of media. ( In Australia of course if someone calls you an old bastard they may if fact be expressing a slang form of acceptance - so perhaps I have just the right kind of social conditioning for newsgroups). Deans' presence seemed to have the desired effect on me at least. To feel good enough about the future prospects of the program to buy it on an 'as is' basis while looking forward to the inevitable patches. Given that he was being successful in his presence here its ironic that he left. A pity too of course. ( He might have just said that he was taking a months break to finish the updates. Too late now I suppose ). You've just got to get used to the short way in which folks often express themselves in this kind of median IMO. Its my experience that even those people who may give a very short harsh view on something one day can give a very thoughtful perceptive view on something else another day. I don't have any problem with this. That's just the way the median seems to be and its been that way for years. FWIW Cheers Phillip McNelley

I've got to 'second' what Phillip wrote. I KNOW others who bought the sim (CPR) even after being disappointed with the demo precisely because of Dean's continual input on this NG and the apparent showing that the product was in a state of improvement with the consumer's input and concerns being addressed. If a 'poster' is offensive and not constructive there is a 'delete' key available. If a 'poster' is continually abusive, isn't that what 'kill-files' are for? I wish Dean could've been a bit more 'thick-skinned' in that regard. I stayed silent on CPR's short-comings that were beaten to death in this NG because I am willing to wait on the patch. I did have a couple of comments about issues that weren't mentioned )atleast I didn't see them mentioned). I wonder about people who don't reguarily follow this NG, who buy the sim and after a few days frustration with it, come here seeking answers. They don't intend to beat a dead horse but rather just want an answer to their problems. I'm sure seeing a 'reply' from Dean and the CPR Design Team was refreshing and seeing the MANY replies from Dean was actually reassuring. I, like many others, had high expectations for CPR. It has not met those expectations (yet....hopefully it will). There are aspects I like but over-all the product needs work. The patch is supposed to address a lot of these issues. Being one of the Gold users, I wish MS CPR would've used that forum more as a true BETA test. I think a lot of these issues arise from the fact that the program could've been improved (hence the 'quickly' announced patch) before the program hit the shelves (IMHO). It would be nice to know that when the patch does arrive, followed by the flames, critiques, questions, and praises, that Dean's support would be here to (hopefully) show MS' continued support and committment to the product. Oh well... Alan http://www.kiva.net/~akh/simshop.html > If I just read about all the trouble many people were having with CPR, and > the many disappointing posts, I probably would have deferred buying CPR > until the general tone of experiences here were a bit more positive. > It was largely because of Deans' participation that I bought the full > version of the game. <SNIP> <SNIP> <SNIP> <SNIP>

Quoted text (8 lines)

> That's just the way the median seems to be and its > been that way for years. > FWIW > Cheers > Phillip McNelley

Excellent and thought-provoking post, Phillip. BTW, where I come from (the wilds of upstate New York), if they call you an "old bastard," they're probably just being genealogically and chronologically correct! Bart Brown

Bart.. what part of upstate NY ??? Im originally from Elmira, NY.. the true Nowhere capital of NY state =) Scott B. Husted http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted > Excellent and thought-provoking post, Phillip. BTW, where I come from > (the wilds of upstate New York), if they call you an "old bastard," > they're probably just being genealogically and chronologically correct! > Bart Brown

Alan -- Another excellent post! I think this notion that there's some cadre of "Ninja Flamers" who haunt newgroups with the sole intention of jumping down someone's throat is just mindlessly simplistic. If I plunked down my hard-earned spondulix for a racing sim, and I couldn't get it to work, this is where I'd head -- and I'd be looking for answers, and most likely exceptionally frustrated. If a software company expects to maintain a presence here, they can hardly be unaware of the general temperament in newsgroups like this -- whether it's good or bad is irrelevant: it just *is*. My initial impression of Mr. Lester was of a junior functionary with an avocational interest in racing sims. It was a shock to me to discover he was the GM of Simulations for MS -- maybe I'm old fashioned, but in my experience of the corporate world, anyone in such a prominent position is generally held to a MUCH higher standard of behavior than a "civilian" or "enlistee". Whether *THAT's* right or wrong is also irrelevant, it's just the way it is. It's not like some irate customer is going to lunge through the monitor and rip his throat out -- it's just words. I'll be the first to admit my bias regarding Microsoft products, but I certainly have always respected the company as a corporate entity of the highest professional (business) standards. Mr. Lester's petulant departure most certainly does NOT reflect professional standards. Thanks again for your excellent post. Bart Brown

>You've just got to get used to the short way in which folks often express >themselves in this kind of median IMO. Its my experience that even those >people who may give a very short harsh view on something one day can give a >very thoughtful perceptive view on something else another day. I don't have >any problem with this. That's just the way the median seems to be and its >been that way for years. Agreed, and well said. Joe

Although I have not been around in this newsgroup long enough to know Dean, I came across his name in other CPR websites. I have to say that MS should have informed consumers about the system requirement in more details. I love the game. It runs very well. Without a good 3D card, the game is horrible. More RAM the better. Apparently, I do not think that the recommended 32 RAM is sufficient enough. Anyone has a clue about when the latest patch becomes available? -- Victor Chan

<snip> % I, like many others, had high expectations for CPR. It has not met those % expectations (yet....hopefully it will). There are aspects I like but % over-all the product needs work. The patch is supposed to address a lot % of these issues. Being one of the Gold users, I wish MS CPR would've % used that forum more as a true BETA test. I think a lot of these issues % arise from the fact that the program could've been improved (hence the % 'quickly' announced patch) before the program hit the shelves (IMHO). <snip> That's a funny thing. Now before we start another bashing thread, this is not a flame or an attack, it's just my observation (and it could be tainted by S/N), okay??? I could have sworn that Dean and the other "official" posters were attempting to make it sound like the problems that were reported with the demo and the "Gold" edition would be fixed for the release. While I knew what was on the Gold was what would be released, I felt that alot of people were disappointed by the condition of the retail version. While there was alot of support and "feeback taking" by Dean et al, there certainly was a good helping of spin control. I for one would have liked to have seen some apology or at least a "recognition" that the program was released even though they were aware of the major short-comings. Many of the things being fixed in The Patch, were well known from the alpha and beta test reports. I personally was insulted by the glossing over that certain problems received. I know that many of you think that Dean was abused by some of the crazed posters in r.a.s. Well, I also think we the sim-buying public were abused by the pre-release of the product. While I have no way of knowing who was ultimately responsible for the program being released in the condition that it was, I would have been personally embarassed had it been my work that was pushed out the door in that state. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=