Race sims - where's the virtual mechanics?

I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all real NASCAR, F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car is as fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally have a team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that they have computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine gets. Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselves in all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programs I just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem to need a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcade game like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need to tweak the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input on what he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you numerous times.). I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want to leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know that I can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them available on the net, but those are usually really effective for those folks that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but tweak what? Where do I begin? I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a "virtual engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have?

Bob Stanley is OUR engineer ;) We use his fixed setups to race with. Like reality the engineer doesnt always make a setup that suits the driver exactly. Mitch "nathantw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i3Akc.3742$[email hidden]... > Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselvesin > all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button > labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programsI > just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem toneed > a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcadegame > like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. > However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by > myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need totweak > the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input onwhat

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> he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the > computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to > make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there > could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like > today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW > there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you > numerous times.). > > I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one > degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is > moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want

to > leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know thatI > can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them > available on the net, but those are usually really effective for thosefolks > that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but > tweak what? Where do I begin? > > I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a"virtual

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> engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be > perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the > "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. > What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning > how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have? > >

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:13:20 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Bob Stanley is OUR engineer ;) We use his fixed setups to race with. Like >reality the engineer doesnt always make a setup that suits the driver >exactly. > >Mitch Yeah, mine is a certain "Achim", on TA tracks... I know what a few things do, but am willfully ignorant on exactly what tweaking X, Y, and Z parameters does. I just want to race without spending half my time farting around on the garage screen-life's too short... John DiFool

yeah, no kidding. I don't get the parent post at all. There are amazing setups available on the internet to cater to just about every driver's style. There is no reason to be a setup monkey if you don't want to be a setup monkey. It takes less than 10 minutes to find tons of setups on the internet. Just download em, drop em into your setups folders, and figure out which ones suit your personal driving style. Once you find some sets you like, then just play around with tweaking them to your liking. jeff . JustOn Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:13:20 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Bob Stanley is OUR engineer ;) We use his fixed setups to race with. Like >reality the engineer doesnt always make a setup that suits the driver >exactly. > >Mitch > >"nathantw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:i3Akc.3742$[email hidden]... >> Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselves >in >> all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button >> labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programs >I >> just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem to >need >> a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcade >game >> like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. >> However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by >> myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need to >tweak >> the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input on >what >> he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the >> computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to >> make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there >> could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like >> today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW >> there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you >> numerous times.). >> >> I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one >> degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is >> moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want >to >> leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know that >I >> can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them >> available on the net, but those are usually really effective for those >folks >> that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but >> tweak what? Where do I begin? >> >> I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a >"virtual >> engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be >> perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the >> "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. >> What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning >> how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have? >> >> >

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>yeah, > >no kidding. I don't get the parent post at all. There are amazing >setups available on the internet to cater to just about every driver's >style. There is no reason to be a setup monkey if you don't want to >be a setup monkey. > >It takes less than 10 minutes to find tons of setups on the internet. >Just download em, drop em into your setups folders, and figure out >which ones suit your personal driving style. Once you find some sets >you like, then just play around with tweaking them to your liking.

And if you don't find anything you like, then what? The non setup-literate person is still stuck without a good setup. Whereas the setup-literate person can grab any old setup, and modify it to suit his style. I agree with the OP - it would be nice to have *something* in the game take your feedback on the setup and change it for the better. Even if you find 100 setups for a track, you still have to do a comparison between them. Setup A is too loose, setup B is too tight. Repeat for the next 98 setups. How many different variables in the setup can produce such a difference? In most games, too many for some of us to understand.. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

Do you really know what you are asking? They have a hard enough time getting the AI to act like real drivers.. Now imagine them having to code the game where the car takes a simulated trip around the track testing every possible change and how it effects the car. This does not even take into effect that people have different driving styles and what may be faster for one person will not be faster for another. Not something I see within the next 5-6 years. At least not something that works correctly and is reliable. "nathantw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i3Akc.3742$[email hidden]... > I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all realNASCAR, > F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into > their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car is as > fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally have a > team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that theyhave > computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine > gets. > > Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselvesin > all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button > labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programsI > just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem toneed > a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcadegame > like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. > However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by > myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need totweak > the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input onwhat

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> he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the > computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to > make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there > could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like > today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW > there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you > numerous times.). > > I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one > degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is > moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want

to > leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know thatI > can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them > available on the net, but those are usually really effective for thosefolks > that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but > tweak what? Where do I begin? > > I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a"virtual

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> engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be > perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the > "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. > What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning > how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have? > >

Don't they already have something along these lines in Total Immersion Racing? I seem to recall the "Engineer" asking you questions after each hot lap whether to make an adjustment. Then you try it out. It seems to me that this would be a nice feature in other sims. nathantw wrote:

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> I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all real NASCAR, > F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into > their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car is as > fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally have a > team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that they have > computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine > gets. > > Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselves in > all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button > labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programs I > just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem to need > a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcade game > like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. > However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by > myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need to tweak > the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input on what > he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the > computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to > make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there > could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like > today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW > there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you > numerous times.). > > I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one > degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is > moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want to > leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know that I > can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them > available on the net, but those are usually really effective for those folks > that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but > tweak what? Where do I begin? > > I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a "virtual > engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be > perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the > "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. > What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning > how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have?

Don't they already have something along these lines in Total Immersion Racing? I seem to recall the "Engineer" asking you questions after each hot lap whether to make an adjustment. Then you try it out. It seems to me that this would be a nice feature in other sims.

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> I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all real NASCAR, > F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into > their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car is as > fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally have a > team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that they have > computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine > gets. > Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselves in > all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button > labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programs I > just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem to need > a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcade game > like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. > However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by > myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need to tweak > the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input on what > he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the > computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to > make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there > could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like > today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW > there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you > numerous times.). > I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one > degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is > moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want to > leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know that I > can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them > available on the net, but those are usually really effective for those folks > that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but > tweak what? Where do I begin? > I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a "virtual > engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be > perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the > "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. > What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning > how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have?

didn't microsoft's "cart precision racing" have somthing like this? it's been along time since i've played it, don't remember for sure. BRH wrote:

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> Don't they already have something along these lines in Total Immersion Racing? > I seem to recall the "Engineer" asking you questions after each hot lap whether > to make an adjustment. Then you try it out. It seems to me that this would be > a nice feature in other sims. > > > > nathantw wrote: > > >>I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all real NASCAR, >>F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into >>their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car is as >>fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally have a >>team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that they have >>computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine >>gets. >> >>Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselves in >>all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button >>labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programs I >>just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem to need >>a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcade game >>like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. >>However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by >>myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need to tweak >>the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input on what >>he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the >>computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to >>make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there >>could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like >>today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW >>there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you >>numerous times.). >> >>I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one >>degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is >>moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want to >>leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know that I >>can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them >>available on the net, but those are usually really effective for those folks >>that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but >>tweak what? Where do I begin? >> >>I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a "virtual >>engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be >>perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the >>"driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. >>What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning >>how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have? > >

I just use this table........ + indicates stiffer damping - indicates softer damping. IF is inside front OF is outside front PHASE, MORE MORE DIRECTIONS UNDERSTEER OVERSTEER Phase 1 entry OF bump F bump + F bump - OR rebound R rebound - R rebound + Phase 2 entry IF rebound F rebound + F rebound - OR bump R bump - R bump + Phase 3A entry OF&OR bump F bump + F bump - IF&IR rebound F rebound + F rebound - R bump - R bump + R rebound - R rebound + Phase 3B exit OF&OR rebound F bump - F bump + IF&IR bump F rebound - F rebound + R bump + R bump - R rebound + R rebound - Phase 4 exit OF rebound F rebound - F rebound + IR bump R bump + R bump -

mkdykstra wrote:

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> didn't microsoft's "cart precision racing" have somthing like this? it's > been along time since i've played it, don't remember for sure. > > BRH wrote: > >> Don't they already have something along these lines in Total Immersion >> Racing? >> I seem to recall the "Engineer" asking you questions after each hot >> lap whether >> to make an adjustment. Then you try it out. It seems to me that this >> would be >> a nice feature in other sims. >> >> >> >> nathantw wrote: >> >> >>> I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all real >>> NASCAR, >>> F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into >>> their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car >>> is as >>> fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally >>> have a >>> team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that >>> they have >>> computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine >>> gets. >>> >>> Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars >>> ourselves in >>> all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button >>> labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these >>> programs I >>> just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem >>> to need >>> a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an >>> arcade game >>> like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. >>> However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car >>> all by >>> myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need to >>> tweak >>> the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input >>> on what >>> he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the >>> computer program that we use should have a team of virtual >>> "engineers" to >>> make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there >>> could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just >>> like >>> today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I >>> KNOW >>> there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you >>> numerous times.). >>> >>> I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change >>> of one >>> degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front >>> wing is >>> moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I >>> want to >>> leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know >>> that I >>> can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them >>> available on the net, but those are usually really effective for >>> those folks >>> that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but >>> tweak what? Where do I begin? >>> >>> I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a >>> "virtual >>> engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car >>> should be >>> perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the >>> "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it >>> better. >>> What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours >>> learning >>> how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have? >> >> >> >

I rember something from nascar4 I think called virtual crew chief,you would input what car was doing and it would make changes.

On 01 May 2004 01:09:40 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >And if you don't find anything you like, then what? Then i check things out like: http://www.torn8oalley.com/setupguide.html -or- http://www.sportplanet.com/team-lightspeed/downloads.html for their setup guides and try to have some understanding of what is going on. It is a simulation racing game after all and so a person is expected to do some work if they want to be competitive. >Even if you find 100 setups for a track, you still have to do a comparison >between them. Setup A is too loose, setup B is too tight. Repeat for the next >98 setups. How many different variables in the setup can produce such a >difference? You do have to try different setups, and if you can't find something you like, then you have to find something that closely approximates what you can drive. You turn tons of laps, like everyone else does, and figure out what you don't like. Then you read up on the stuff mentioned above. Begin making changes one at time, turn more laps, rinse and repeat. The sim racing crowd is hard core, but that seems to be the appeal of the genre. I love GPL, but I can't turn the 100's of solo practice laps it seems to take to really get that rank down. It's why I never win a race in the game ;-). But for N2003, i do enjoy turning lap after lap, trying to shave the tiniest bit of time off my laps. Once I find a setup that I like, then i just tweak it ever so slightly to get the car on the line i feel most comfortable with around the track and awat I go. just my .02 jeff

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>I just use this table........ > > >+ indicates stiffer damping >- indicates softer damping. >IF is inside front >OF is outside front > >PHASE, MORE MORE >DIRECTIONS UNDERSTEER OVERSTEER > >Phase 1 entry >OF bump F bump + F bump - >OR rebound R rebound - R rebound +

I'll assume the reason I can't make any sense out of that yet is that the formatting is off. I'll study it some more, thanks. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

I remember microsoft precision racing having that feature, but then again I kinda remember the changes never helped my car. In general I find that setups don't mean as much to me as the amount of practice i get on a track. Derek "mkdykstra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:erFkc.6345$Ik.525320@attbi_s53... > didn't microsoft's "cart precision racing" have somthing like this? it's > been along time since i've played it, don't remember for sure. > > BRH wrote: > > Don't they already have something along these lines in Total ImmersionRacing? > > I seem to recall the "Engineer" asking you questions after each hot lapwhether > > to make an adjustment. Then you try it out. It seems to me that thiswould be

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> > a nice feature in other sims. > > > > > > > > nathantw wrote: > > > > > >>I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all real

NASCAR, > >>F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into > >>their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car isas > >>fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally havea > >>team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that theyhave > >>computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine > >>gets. > >> > >>Well my question then is why are we required to modify the carsourselves in > >>all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button > >>labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy theseprograms I > >>just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem toneed > >>a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcadegame > >>like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. > >>However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car allby > >>myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need totweak > >>the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input onwhat > >>he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the > >>computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers"to > >>make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there > >>could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars justlike > >>today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (IKNOW > >>there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you > >>numerous times.). > >> > >>I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change ofone > >>degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wingis > >>moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I wantto > >>leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I knowthat I > >>can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them > >>available on the net, but those are usually really effective for thosefolks > >>that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but > >>tweak what? Where do I begin? > >> > >>I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a"virtual > >>engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car shouldbe > >>perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the > >>"driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make itbetter. > >>What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hourslearning > >>how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have? > > > > >

That is a good point, They could create a interface where you have multiple selectable option of car behavior, once you have selected what you feel about the car you hit process and it recommend changes to your setup. That would be cool, but how long would it take to have that process accurate? ouf.. EL "nathantw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i3Akc.3742$[email hidden]... > I was wondering (always a dangerous thing for me to do), do all realNASCAR, > F1, GTR, INDY, and other race car drivers take their real race cars into > their home garage and tinker on their cars themselves until the car is as > fast as possible? It was always my understanding that they normally have a > team of experts to tweak their cars in high tech garages and that theyhave > computers that analyze everything from suspension to how hot the engine > gets. > > Well my question then is why are we required to modify the cars ourselvesin > all these sims just so we can be competitive? Why isn't there a button > labeled "let our team engineers make it faster?" When I buy these programsI > just want to drive as fast as possible on "real" tracks, but I seem toneed > a degree in auto mechanics just be competitive. I don't want an arcadegame > like those on the PS2 or XBox, I want to drive a car that's realistic. > However, I don't think having to tweak a high performance race car all by > myself and with no direction is realistic. The driver doesn't need totweak > the car in real life by himself, so why should I? He gives his input onwhat

Quoted text (11 lines)

> he feels in the car and the engineers take care of the rest. I think the > computer program that we use should have a team of virtual "engineers" to > make my car faster based on the car and the way I drive. Of course there > could also be a button to let the drivers modify their own cars just like > today for those of you that are truly proficient at fixing up cars (I KNOW > there are a lot of you out there too. I'm sure I've been lapped by you > numerous times.). > > I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what a camber change of one > degree is going to do to my car on a certain track or if the front wing is > moved a few degrees what effect it might have on right stability. I want

to > leave that to the mechanics. But what mechanic? Me? Hahahaha. I know thatI > can download some fantastic setups by people nice enough to make them > available on the net, but those are usually really effective for thosefolks > that actually upload them. We still need to tweak it for our tastes, but > tweak what? Where do I begin? > > I'm hoping that the next generation of race sims allow us to have a"virtual

Quoted text (7 lines)

> engineer" to tweak our cars for us. I'm not saying that the car should be > perfect after pressing the "make it fast" button, but we can have the > "driver" make a "recommendation" on what should be done to make it better. > What do you think? Am I just being a wuss for not spending hours learning > how to tweak a car or do you think this is a worthwhile thing to have? > >

In article <nGZkc.79252$[email hidden]>, Eric Leblanc <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted text (8 lines)

>That is a good point, > >They could create a interface where you have multiple selectable option of >car behavior, once you have selected what you feel about the car you hit >process and it recommend changes to your setup. That would be cool, but >how >long would it take to have that process accurate? ouf.. >

Well I'd be more than happy if some of these setup experts out there could come up with a 'stand-alone' program for the sims that I play that could ask me a series of multiple-choice questions and then come up with some suggestions for me to take back into the game. Hey, even that would give quicker results than my random click here, click there attempts. And I have read up on some of this stuff, but unless you're tweaking all the time and have time for doing so, then any small knowledge that you've gained soon gets lost over the following weeks/months. I just haven't got enough hours in the day to be able to practice racing and learning about car setup. -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -25.01

>And I have read up on some of this stuff, but unless you're tweaking all >the time and have time for doing so, then any small knowledge that >you've gained soon gets lost over the following weeks/months. At one point, I was *this* close to having something 'click' in understanding setups. I don't know what happened, but I lost it and haven't gotten it back yet. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East