There are two things I look for in a racing sim: 1) unparalleled realism in
the driving experience meaning accuracy of response of the car and accuracy
of surroundings/environment and 2) close, exciting, clean racing
possibilities.
The GTR demo has delivered the first one better than any other piece of
software I have encountered....finally something to unseat GPL in my books.
The difference in this and TA in NR2003, to my hands and eyes and ears
anyway, is enormous--all tipped toward GTR as the better. Like the GT mod
before it, the demo has beyond any other made me feel the way I do in a real
car on a real track--wanting to explore the geography of the track and
squeeze every ounce of speed out of the car. GPL has been the only other
title to do that. I was amazed at how great some of the tracks in the GT
mod were after initially being a bit disappointed. I have driven Spa in
umpteen variations in umpteen sims, but never has it grabbed my attention
and imagination and curiosity like it has here.
I would pay double for GTR with the current level of completion assuming all
tracks and cars were in there.
Knowing who is involved with this title, I have a strong feeling that my
number 2 desire will also be fulfilled.
Long live GPL...it finally has been fully and utterly surpassed. (However
the new '65 mod is great and GPL modded to the hilt will remain on my system
for a long, long time to come.)
Marc
--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins
[email hidden]
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
****************************************************************************
GTR demo hailed, but netcode remains the question
Marc Collins called the GTR demo the most realistic driving experience he had tried. Others said its success would depend on multiplayer, and David G Fisher called it essentially F1 Challenge with GT cars. Much of the thread covered controller sensitivity settings to fix on/off throttle and brake response.
Automated summary.
Hold on there Grasshopper, you failed to mention #3 . . . . . . Netcode. It
might not be a priority to you, but as promising as the demo is it will be
just another sim for most of us if the multiplayer isn't equal to Papy sims.
DN
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:6dflc.12462$[email hidden]...
> There are two things I look for in a racing sim: 1) unparalleled realismin
> the driving experience meaning accuracy of response of the car andaccuracy
> of surroundings/environment and 2) close, exciting, clean racing
> possibilities.
>
> The GTR demo has delivered the first one better than any other piece of
> software I have encountered....finally something to unseat GPL in mybooks.
> The difference in this and TA in NR2003, to my hands and eyes and ears
> anyway, is enormous--all tipped toward GTR as the better. Like the GT mod
> before it, the demo has beyond any other made me feel the way I do in areal
all
system
> for a long, long time to come.)
>
> Marc
>
> --
>****************************************************************************
> Marc Collins
> [email hidden]
>
> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> to take effect. Reboot now?
>****************************************************************************
>
>
Quoted text (8 lines)
> car on a real track--wanting to explore the geography of the track and > squeeze every ounce of speed out of the car. GPL has been the only other > title to do that. I was amazed at how great some of the tracks in the GT > mod were after initially being a bit disappointed. I have driven Spa in > umpteen variations in umpteen sims, but never has it grabbed my attention > and imagination and curiosity like it has here. > > I would pay double for GTR with the current level of completion assumingQuoted text (7 lines)
> tracks and cars were in there. > > Knowing who is involved with this title, I have a strong feeling that my > number 2 desire will also be fulfilled. > > Long live GPL...it finally has been fully and utterly surpassed. (However > the new '65 mod is great and GPL modded to the hilt will remain on my Bingo.
Dino <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:iQglc.10029$[email hidden]...
> Hold on there Grasshopper, you failed to mention #3 . . . . . . Netcode.It
> might not be a priority to you, but as promising as the demo is it will be
> just another sim for most of us if the multiplayer isn't equal to Papysims.
mod
> > before it, the demo has beyond any other made me feel the way I do in a
> real
> > car on a real track--wanting to explore the geography of the track and
> > squeeze every ounce of speed out of the car. GPL has been the onlyother
> > title to do that. I was amazed at how great some of the tracks in theGT
> > mod were after initially being a bit disappointed. I have driven Spa in
> > umpteen variations in umpteen sims, but never has it grabbed myattention
(However
****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
Quoted text (17 lines)
> > DN > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6dflc.12462$[email hidden]... > > There are two things I look for in a racing sim: 1) unparalleled realism > in > > the driving experience meaning accuracy of response of the car and > accuracy > > of surroundings/environment and 2) close, exciting, clean racing > > possibilities. > > > > The GTR demo has delivered the first one better than any other piece of > > software I have encountered....finally something to unseat GPL in my > books. > > The difference in this and TA in NR2003, to my hands and eyes and ears > > anyway, is enormous--all tipped toward GTR as the better. Like the GTQuoted text (10 lines)
> > and imagination and curiosity like it has here. > > > > I would pay double for GTR with the current level of completion assuming > all > > tracks and cars were in there. > > > > Knowing who is involved with this title, I have a strong feeling that my > > number 2 desire will also be fulfilled. > > > > Long live GPL...it finally has been fully and utterly surpassed.Quoted text (9 lines)
> > the new '65 mod is great and GPL modded to the hilt will remain on my > system > > for a long, long time to come.) > > > > Marc > > > > -- > > >Quoted text (7 lines)
> > Marc Collins > > [email hidden] > > > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > > to take effect. Reboot now? > > >
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:6dflc.12462$[email hidden]...
> There are two things I look for in a racing sim: 1) unparalleled realismin
> the driving experience meaning accuracy of response of the car andaccuracy
> of surroundings/environment and 2) close, exciting, clean racing
> possibilities.
>
> The GTR demo has delivered the first one better than any other piece of
> software I have encountered....finally something to unseat GPL in mybooks.
> The difference in this and TA in NR2003, to my hands and eyes and ears
> anyway, is enormous--all tipped toward GTR as the better. Like the GT mod
> before it, the demo has beyond any other made me feel the way I do in areal
> car on a real track--wanting to explore the geography of the track and
> squeeze every ounce of speed out of the car. GPL has been the only other
> title to do that. I was amazed at how great some of the tracks in the GT
> mod were after initially being a bit disappointed. I have driven Spa in
> umpteen variations in umpteen sims, but never has it grabbed my attention
> and imagination and curiosity like it has here.
I agree it's pretty great, but it's basically just F1C with GT cars.
David G Fisher
On Mon, 3 May 2004 00:57:41 -0400, "David G Fisher"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
> I agree it's pretty great, but it's basically just F1C with GT cars.
Would you rather have Cart Precision Racing with GT cars?
OH HE WENT THERE.
Jason
> I agree it's pretty great, but it's basically just F1C with GT cars.
>
> David G Fisher
So do I interpret your comment as "but it's no gpl"...
:)
"Dino" wrote:
> Hold on there Grasshopper, you failed to mention #3 . . . . . . Netcode.It
> might not be a priority to you, but as promising as the demo is it will be
> just another sim for most of us if the multiplayer isn't equal to Papysims.
Yes, and controller configuration for at least me. Any decent faqs out there
for ISI controller configs? The default GTR setting is totally undriveable
for me, and I have driven a *lot* of sims...
> Yes, and controller configuration for at least me. Any decent faqs outthere
> for ISI controller configs? The default GTR setting is totally undriveable
> for me, and I have driven a *lot* of sims...
So by totally undriveable I assume you mean that you can't even make it out
of the pitbox?
"Damien Evans" wrote:
> > Yes, and controller configuration for at least me. Any decent faqs out
> there
> > for ISI controller configs? The default GTR setting is totallyundriveable
> > for me, and I have driven a *lot* of sims...
>
> So by totally undriveable I assume you mean that you can't even make itout
> of the pitbox?
Ok, so undriveable at a race pace... :)
Brakes and throttle act like switches, steering feels a bit strange too.
Though getting out the pit box drops to about 2 fps then settles to a decent
frame rate. F1C does the same.
"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:pAulc.522$[email hidden]:
>
> Brakes and throttle act like switches, steering feels a bit strange too.
Mess with your throttle and brake axis sliders. 50% is a common
starting point. I 'think' that for the pedals, the lower/closer to zero,
the more sensitive the pedals are relative to initial travel. So a low
number means the sim sees the pedal moving a larger distance than the 2nd
half of the travel. Conversely, a high number, like 90% means the sim sees
very little pedal movement until the very end of your pedals throw.
Those concepts may be reversed...I haven't investigated it properly. Just
set mine to 50% and leave them.
dave henrie
"Dave Henrie" wrote:
sees
> very little pedal movement until the very end of your pedals throw.
> Those concepts may be reversed...I haven't investigated it properly. Just
> set mine to 50% and leave them.
> dave henrie
Thanks, Dave. I tend to adopt the Cole Trickle jump in and drive approach
and leave others to work out the technical stuff on here - lazy bastard
really :)
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > Brakes and throttle act like switches, steering feels a bit strange too. > > Mess with your throttle and brake axis sliders. 50% is a common > starting point. I 'think' that for the pedals, the lower/closer to zero, > the more sensitive the pedals are relative to initial travel. So a low > number means the sim sees the pedal moving a larger distance than the 2nd > half of the travel. Conversely, a high number, like 90% means the sim
"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:pAulc.522$[email hidden]...
What are you seeing when you calibrate your wheel? Is the throttle response
immediate?
David G Fisher
Quoted text (15 lines)
> "Damien Evans" wrote: > > > > Yes, and controller configuration for at least me. Any decent faqs out > > there > > > for ISI controller configs? The default GTR setting is totally > undriveable > > > for me, and I have driven a *lot* of sims... > > > > So by totally undriveable I assume you mean that you can't even make it > out > > of the pitbox? > > Ok, so undriveable at a race pace... :) > > Brakes and throttle act like switches, steering feels a bit strange too.
"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:pAulc.522$[email hidden]...
What are you seeing when you calibrate your wheel? Is the throttle response
immediate?
David G Fisher
Quoted text (15 lines)
> "Damien Evans" wrote: > > > > Yes, and controller configuration for at least me. Any decent faqs out > > there > > > for ISI controller configs? The default GTR setting is totally > undriveable > > > for me, and I have driven a *lot* of sims... > > > > So by totally undriveable I assume you mean that you can't even make it > out > > of the pitbox? > > Ok, so undriveable at a race pace... :) > > Brakes and throttle act like switches, steering feels a bit strange too."David G Fisher" wrote:
> What are you seeing when you calibrate your wheel?
Looks reasonably smooth. Works perfectly in Papy calibration screens. I'll
recheck the windows calibration.
> Is the throttle response immediate?
No, I perceive a lag.
Cheers
Tony
Quoted text (10 lines)
>"David G Fisher" wrote: > >> What are you seeing when you calibrate your wheel? > >Looks reasonably smooth. Works perfectly in Papy calibration screens. I'll >recheck the windows calibration. > >> Is the throttle response immediate? > >No, I perceive a lag.
"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Txylc.820$[email hidden]...
I mean does it respond immediately with the slider bars in the calibration
screen?
In F1C, with some controllers, you had to edit one of the files (can't
remember which right now) manually or else the throttle wouldn't respond
until you had pressed the pedal down halfway. You could see the lack of
response with the calibration slider bars. When fixed, the slider bars
moved the moment you touched the pedal. I wonder if the same thing is
happening in the GTR demo with your controller.
David G Fisher
Quoted text (13 lines)
> "David G Fisher" wrote: > > > What are you seeing when you calibrate your wheel? > > Looks reasonably smooth. Works perfectly in Papy calibration screens. I'll > recheck the windows calibration. > > > Is the throttle response immediate? > > No, I perceive a lag. > > Cheers > Tony
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> >"David G Fisher" wrote:
> >
> >> What are you seeing when you calibrate your wheel?
> >
> >Looks reasonably smooth. Works perfectly in Papy calibration screens.I'll
input
> responses(it's very nothcy on my system), but not a place to recal in thegame
> itself...
>
> Eldred
I'm referring to the sliders on the controller screen. You have to move your
wheel full left/right and press both pedals before you hit the track in F1C
and GTR, so I call it the calibration screen. They shouldn't be notchy. They
should be moving smoothly.
David G Fisher
Quoted text (7 lines)
> >recheck the windows calibration. > > > >> Is the throttle response immediate? > > > >No, I perceive a lag. > > Where is the option to calibrate in GTR? I see a screen where it showsFrom your point of view that's a compliment though, isn't it? ;o)
In any case though it seems to me that F1C had good core technology (except
for multiplayer) but were sorely lacking in the area of tuning. Simbin has
tackled that with gusto and is producing a game with better track modelling,
better tire modelling, etc.
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > > I agree it's pretty great, but it's basically just F1C with GT cars. > > David G Fisher > >At 12fps everything will seem notchy :))
Think about it Eldred. You did ok in GPL, maybe not an alien but you won
races and have a great rank. GPL requires much less hardware to get decent
fps and its locked at 36 anyway. Every game since you seem to have problems
driving. Im no rocket scientist and only you will know for sure but I'd
still say youre system limited and it shows clearly when you try to run a
Sim that requires ponies to get a decent fps like NR2003 or F1C/mods/GTR.
I saw a 2.4gig CPU and mobo for $79 on saturday in a retail store. Skip a
night out on the town and you can afford that :) (not a very good mobo mind
you. ECS) but it will still blow away your ancient 1.2gig athlon (which
wasnt very good new). Im not knocking your rig but we've all tried to give
you recommendations but nothing seems to improve the situation. You have a
great wheel and a decent video card, youve spent many hours driving, there
no reason you should be having these issues that I can see except your CPU
(or lack thereof).
Mitch
> Where is the option to calibrate in GTR? I see a screen where it showsinput
> responses(it's very nothcy on my system), but not a place to recal in thegame
Quoted text (14 lines)
> itself... > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East>I'm referring to the sliders on the controller screen. You have to move your
>wheel full left/right and press both pedals before you hit the track in F1C
>and GTR, so I call it the calibration screen. They shouldn't be notchy. They
>should be moving smoothly.
I think we're talking about the same screen. Damn, haven't figured out how do
make the input smooth yet. That's probably one of the reasons I'm having so
much trouble just trying to make it around the TRACK... I'll fiddle some more
with settings/sensitivity, etc.
Eldred
--
http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Screamers League
IICC League
GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80
Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71
Hist. +82.34 MoH:na
N2k3 rank:in progress
Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin
Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro
US East
>At 12fps everything will seem notchy :))
>
I'll have you know I can get a whole *21-27* fps in the demo...
12 fps, INDEED...<g>
What store - local store or super chain? The Athlon 1.2 was much more cost
effective than a similar spec'd Pentium, and it was a BIG upgrade from the
350mhz system I had at the time.
I really hate to blame the system, because I know there are people who can
drive faster with slower systems than mine. But, I know that this system is
underperforming, for whatever reason. If I get a chance, I'll throw my Ti4600
in my music studio computer. It's not much faster(only a 1.8G), but I can
compare what that system's performance should be. If it's also anemic, then I
know it's the GF that is the problem. If it performs as it should, then I'll
know the problem is in my main system.
Eldred
--
http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Screamers League
IICC League
GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80
Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71
Hist. +82.34 MoH:na
N2k3 rank:in progress
Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin
Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro
US East
Quoted text (15 lines)
>Think about it Eldred. You did ok in GPL, maybe not an alien but you won >races and have a great rank. GPL requires much less hardware to get decent >fps and its locked at 36 anyway. Every game since you seem to have problems >driving. Im no rocket scientist and only you will know for sure but I'd >still say youre system limited and it shows clearly when you try to run a >Sim that requires ponies to get a decent fps like NR2003 or F1C/mods/GTR. > >I saw a 2.4gig CPU and mobo for $79 on saturday in a retail store. Skip a >night out on the town and you can afford that :) (not a very good mobo mind >you. ECS) but it will still blow away your ancient 1.2gig athlon (which >wasnt very good new). Im not knocking your rig but we've all tried to give >you recommendations but nothing seems to improve the situation. You have a >great wheel and a decent video card, youve spent many hours driving, there >no reason you should be having these issues that I can see except your CPU >(or lack thereof).> Mess with your throttle and brake axis sliders. 50% is a common
> starting point. I 'think' that for the pedals, the lower/closer to zero,
> the more sensitive the pedals are relative to initial travel. So a low
> number means the sim sees the pedal moving a larger distance than the 2nd
> half of the travel. Conversely, a high number, like 90% means the simsees
> very little pedal movement until the very end of your pedals throw.
> Those concepts may be reversed...I haven't investigated it properly. Just
> set mine to 50% and leave them.
For some reason, the new movement "sliders" make it much easier to judge
changes. 50% is full linear. Move sensitivity in either direction, and you
can clearly see the change. If everything feels on/off, first make sure
that everything's responding correctly with 50% sensitivity. If it is, you
may want to try setting it so that response is slower at the beginning and
quickens near the end. I leave everything at 50%, but it does seem like
most of the finer throttle and brake control occurs in the first 40-50% of
travel. Once I'm into that last 50%, I'm already at a point where less
finesse is needed.
Alan
> For some reason, the new movement "sliders" make it much easier to judge
> changes. 50% is full linear. Move sensitivity in either direction, andyou
> can clearly see the change. If everything feels on/off, first make sure
> that everything's responding correctly with 50% sensitivity. If it is,you
> may want to try setting it so that response is slower at the beginning and
> quickens near the end. I leave everything at 50%, but it does seem like
> most of the finer throttle and brake control occurs in the first 40-50% of
> travel. Once I'm into that last 50%, I'm already at a point where less
> finesse is needed.
I thought about what I wrote and set the brake and throttle axes to 40%
sensitivity. Now, the important range in-game is mapped through more
physical pedal throw. I'm still lagging in lap times (no surprise there),
but my times suddenly became much more consistent (within ~.5 sec). Braking
and throttle control feel much more comfortable and natural. Makes me
wonder why I didn't do this sooner!
Alan
Caveat: my results are likely influenced by DXTweak changes for a funky gas
pot and not getting full throw on the brake due to the stiffness in last bit
of travel.
On Sun, 2 May 2004 19:09:53 -0400, Marc Collins wrote:
> Long live GPL...it finally has been fully and utterly surpassed. (However
> the new '65 mod is great and GPL modded to the hilt will remain on my system
> for a long, long time to come.)
I do agree with you mostly, but let's wait and test the promised
online 30 car field support. Do SBDT have a source license to F1C? My
feeling would be that the netcode in F1C would never support so many
cars online without a *major* hacking session.
Cheers,
uwe
--
mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
On Mon, 3 May 2004 21:27:28 +1000, Damien Evans wrote:
On my TSW gameport setup (no clutch) I have to reduce both throttle
and brake sensitivity to 0% or else my brake lights will be constantly
lit (use the left "shift" key to toggle through the outside / rear
driving views), and also it looks like a bit of throttle is constantly
applied.
Cheers,
uwe
--
mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
Quoted text (9 lines)
>> Yes, and controller configuration for at least me. Any decent faqs out > there >> for ISI controller configs? The default GTR setting is totally undriveable >> for me, and I have driven a *lot* of sims... > > So by totally undriveable I assume you mean that you can't even make it out > of the pitbox? > >Uwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
Have you tried assigning a very small deadzone to your brake axis?
Start with 1% and check your brake lights. Repeat as necessary.
dh
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > On my TSW gameport setup (no clutch) I have to reduce both throttle > and brake sensitivity to 0% or else my brake lights will be constantly > lit (use the left "shift" key to toggle through the outside / rear > driving views), and also it looks like a bit of throttle is constantly > applied. > > Cheers, > > uweUwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
They are not using the F1c code but ISI's newest generation. I would
think the server code will be based on something from NT 2k4.
Quoted text (16 lines)
> On Sun, 2 May 2004 19:09:53 -0400, Marc Collins wrote: > >> Long live GPL...it finally has been fully and utterly surpassed. >> (However the new '65 mod is great and GPL modded to the hilt will >> remain on my system for a long, long time to come.) > > I do agree with you mostly, but let's wait and test the promised > online 30 car field support. Do SBDT have a source license to F1C? My > feeling would be that the netcode in F1C would never support so many > cars online without a *major* hacking session. > > > Cheers, > > uwe >
Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
And thats an improvement ? <g> Unless the server code has a credit with
the name of Charlie Heath, good luck.
