Indy Racing by ABC Sports?

Has anyone tried Indy Racing by ABC Sports? Is there a demo anywhere? Is the game arcade-lime or is it a sim? What is the control like? How are the graphics? What's the deal? Cordially, Buddha

Yes. Not that I'm aware. The former. Fair to median. Not bad...not good, but not bad. None...Full retail. Cheers! Marc Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing Online / Sim Racing News / The Sim Project http://members.aol.com/simracing

> Has anyone tried Indy Racing by ABC Sports? Is there a demo anywhere? Is > the game arcade-lime or is it a sim? What is the control like? How are > the graphics? What's the deal? > Cordially, > Buddha I wouldn't recommend it unless you are as desperate as I was for a dirt track sprint car game. The IRL portion has terrible physics. If you want to know the details I wrote a review at The Game Pad at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/1196/ Cheers, Ken

I actually kind of like it, but it's not much of sim. Other than a tendency to rack you up on the start, the AI is pretty well behaved. The track seem accurate and you can adjust the detail levels and textures to get a decent D3d frame rate. I've had fun. Needs a paintkit and a save game feature though. > Has anyone tried Indy Racing by ABC Sports? Is there a demo anywhere? Is > the game arcade-lime or is it a sim? What is the control like? How are > the graphics? What's the deal? > Cordially, > Buddha

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> > Has anyone tried Indy Racing by ABC Sports? Is there a demo anywhere? Is > > the game arcade-lime or is it a sim? What is the control like? How are > > the graphics? What's the deal? > > Cordially, > > Buddha > I wouldn't recommend it unless you are as desperate as I was for a dirt > track sprint car game. The IRL portion has terrible physics. If you want to > know the details I wrote a review at The Game Pad at > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/1196/ > Cheers, > Ken

Thanks a lot for the scoop, Ken. The review was very well done and unbiased. If only the game magazines and websites were as honest.:) Cordially, Buddha

I just got my review copy, and by mid-next week you can expect a fully detailed review on Digital Sports, where I also revied CPR and Test Drive 4 (shameless plug). I will tell you now though that, at least on a P300, its not a bad sim at all. I'll need to run it upstairs and see how it runs on my P133 so I can give a more balanced look, but so far its okay. The game is definitely not arcade, and nothing obvious stands out that's wrong about the physics model. You can definitely get oversteer or push into a wall. One thing I did notice weird was that after pushing up and touching the wall, t seemed like my wheels stayed locked even though I was no longer on ANY of the pedals. I'll have to explore that more. If you have the 3D hardware for the game, it looks quite nice, though some of the scenery around some tracks is noticeably absent. (compare Nascar 2 Phoenix to Road to Indy Phoenix and you'll see what I mean), but its still more detailed over all then its predecessors. I was going to grouse about the AI, but after getting rear-ended from an overaggressive AI car, and noticing that the offender was one Dr. Jack Miller, I decided that having questionable AI in the IRL is probably a feature which provides realistic IRL racing <grin>. The biggest thing about an IRL sim is that its main benefit is that you can race the Indy 500. If you're looking for close racing on ovals, NASCAR 2 can't be beat for that. If you're looking for the best Indy Car sim, then this one has tough competition from CPR and ICR2. So the issue is how much do you like ovals (since that's all there are in the IRL) and how do you feel about doing nothing but racing 8 ovals in open wheel non-turbocharged IRL cars. If the idea appeals to you, then you'll probably like the game, provided it runs well on your hardware. But its not quite as deep as its competitors are in the options department. For those keeping score, here are a few nits: - no custom saved setups. You can customize the setup and it retains a race and qualify setup for you separately, but there is no file system for setups. So you can't easily back out of a change if you forget what it was! - The setup option increments are fairly coarse. You go from 17degree rear wing to 14 degree rear wing in one notch, for instance. - The crew chief is both the best thing you have and the worst (he won't shut up and gets repetitive on matters that you don't want to hear about all the time). - The mirrors are tiny. Even if you have them on, I find them almost useless. - The replay only has rear and in-car camera angles. No TV-style replays here. Anyway, read more about this one during the next week. Right now I'd say its a good sim, but not a great sim...but I reserve the right to change my mind. Randy

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> >Has anyone tried Indy Racing by ABC Sports? Is there a demo anywhere? Is > >the game arcade-lime or is it a sim? What is the control like? How are > >the graphics? What's the deal? > I just got my review copy, and by mid-next week you can expect a fully > detailed review on Digital Sports, where I also revied CPR and Test > Drive 4 (shameless plug). > I will tell you now though that, at least on a P300, its not a bad sim > at all. I'll need to run it upstairs and see how it runs on my P133 > so I can give a more balanced look, but so far its okay. > The game is definitely not arcade, and nothing obvious stands out > that's wrong about the physics model. You can definitely get > oversteer or push into a wall. One thing I did notice weird was that > after pushing up and touching the wall, t seemed like my wheels stayed > locked even though I was no longer on ANY of the pedals. I'll have to > explore that more. > If you have the 3D hardware for the game, it looks quite nice, though > some of the scenery around some tracks is noticeably absent. (compare > Nascar 2 Phoenix to Road to Indy Phoenix and you'll see what I mean), > but its still more detailed over all then its predecessors. I was > going to grouse about the AI, but after getting rear-ended from an > overaggressive AI car, and noticing that the offender was one Dr. Jack > Miller, I decided that having questionable AI in the IRL is probably a > feature which provides realistic IRL racing <grin>. > The biggest thing about an IRL sim is that its main benefit is that > you can race the Indy 500. If you're looking for close racing on > ovals, NASCAR 2 can't be beat for that. If you're looking for the > best Indy Car sim, then this one has tough competition from CPR and > ICR2. So the issue is how much do you like ovals (since that's all > there are in the IRL) and how do you feel about doing nothing but > racing 8 ovals in open wheel non-turbocharged IRL cars. If the idea > appeals to you, then you'll probably like the game, provided it runs > well on your hardware. But its not quite as deep as its competitors > are in the options department. For those keeping score, here are a > few nits: > - no custom saved setups. You can customize the setup and it retains > a race and qualify setup for you separately, but there is no file > system for setups. So you can't easily back out of a change if you > forget what it was! > - The setup option increments are fairly coarse. You go from 17degree > rear wing to 14 degree rear wing in one notch, for instance. > - The crew chief is both the best thing you have and the worst (he > won't shut up and gets repetitive on matters that you don't want to > hear about all the time). > - The mirrors are tiny. Even if you have them on, I find them almost > useless. > - The replay only has rear and in-car camera angles. No TV-style > replays here. > Anyway, read more about this one during the next week. Right now I'd > say its a good sim, but not a great sim...but I reserve the right to > change my mind. > Randy

Cool... Thanks for the in depth info, Randy.:) Unfortunately, I don't like racing ovals.:( I used the free track converter to get Long Beach (my favorite!) and Cleveland from ICR2 to N2. I only like to race Long Beach, Cleveland, Sears Point, Elkhart Lake and Bull Run on N2. I really liked GPII but for some reason it constantly crashes on my system. After the 3Dfx patch for N2 is released, I will pay the $15 and get the full track converter and only play N2. I was disappointed to read all the flames on AR98 and TD4 is too arcade-like and too much like NFSIISE. I was really, really disappointed with CPR for I had high hopes for it. Oh well, F1RS and the N2 3Dfx patch will be here eventually. Cordially, Buddha

>>Is the game arcade-lime or is it a sim? >The former. Marc, I'd be interested in hearing you elaborate on this. Why is this one not a sim? Randy

Thanks for the kind words. The whole reason I started the game is that I was sick and tired of the majority of the reviewers at the corporate mags and sites who don't even seem to really "play" the games that they review. Sure there are a couple of decent sites that are unbiased, but there aren't nearly enough. The Game Pad is a site for us, the gamers, to voice our opinions. Send us a review and as long as it is fair-we will post it! BTW I should have our CPR review up in the next couple of days. Be sure to check back. Thanks. Ken The Game Pad http://gamepad.org/

It sucks. Plain and simple. - Bryan Davis ExecPC Technical Support - ExecPC Frequently Asked Questions List -- http://galaxy.execpc.com/FAQ

>It sucks. Plain and simple. Why? Randy

>>It sucks. Plain and simple. >Why? >Randy Shall we start with NO CAR DAMAGE. Then add NO YELLOW FLAGS and toss in some really shitty computer AI and you have a nice front-end interface to a non-existent game (I refuse to use the word SIM). This is pure arcade at its rawest form.

>Shall we start with NO CAR DAMAGE. Didn't play the game much, did you? Didn't play the game much, did you? which, on ovals, is better than CART Precision Racing's AI I must say. Well, if your observations are all I have to rely on, then I have to say that I think you're dead wrong. Arcade/Simulation is not a boolean "IT IS" or "IT ISN'T". Its more like a scale with arcade on the left and simulation on the right. I'd put Indy Racing at about a 75% simulation, 25% arcade. Randy

Actually Mark is pretty close. There is no VISIBLE car damage and some of my fastest laps have come after flipping end over end at over 200mph while playing the game on the "simulation" setting. I have raced alot in "Road to Racing" and have never seen a yellow (just like CPR) and the AI is nonesistant. The CPU cars all run their "line" as if they are on rails. They are totally unaware you are there. If you stop on the track about half of them slow down and go around, the rest slow down and continue to ram you over and over and over. The only thing "sim" about this game are some of the car setup options. The gameplay, car physics and AI all scream "ARCADE" and eye-candy game, and not a good one either. The sprint car portion is the only reason I didn't take this game back. I was desperate to race sprints in the dirt and find it pretty cool in this game. I wrote a couiple of in-depth reviews <plug, plug> on this and CPR at http://gamepad.org/ Let's go racing, Ken

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> >Shall we start with NO CAR DAMAGE. > Didn't play the game much, did you? > >Then add NO YELLOW FLAGS > Didn't play the game much, did you? > >and toss in some really shitty computer AI > which, on ovals, is better than CART Precision Racing's AI I must say. > >This is pure arcade at its rawest form. > Well, if your observations are all I have to rely on, then I have to > say that I think you're dead wrong. Arcade/Simulation is not a > boolean "IT IS" or "IT ISN'T". Its more like a scale with arcade on > the left and simulation on the right. I'd put Indy Racing at about a > 75% simulation, 25% arcade. > Randy

>Actually Mark is pretty close. There is no VISIBLE car damage This is factually incorrect. I've seen my suspension arms break off and be pointing into empty air, both front and rear. You need to go back and play some more. At what level of difficulty? The game doesn't simulate real life physics and difficulty utnil you reach 9. 10 and Expert are meant to go beyond 'real'. You haven't raced a lot. Sorry. I did a race at Indianapolis against a full grid and within the first 50 laps there were two yellows, both caused by cars' engines letting go in a huge plume of cool looking steam. Your car is put into autopilot mode and you can elect to enter the pits under yellow at anytime by pressing a key. In the many races I've done, I've seen enough yellows to be convinced that they are not only there, but work pretty well. Another comment that doesn't hold water when compared against reality. I've tested the AI, and I've also looked at replays after impacts which I felt were NOT my fault, and found that more often than not it was happening on exits of turns where I moved up into an AI car. In NASCAR, the spotter would have said "Car high" and I would have lifted a bit to give the guy racing room, but in many cases I didn't or the overtake speed was too high for there to be as much warning as there is in NASCAR. Interesting how you can say the AI is "non-existent" and that they are "totally unaware you are there" if half of them slow down and go around! If they don't know you're there, why are they slowing to go around you?! Sorry, but I have to disagree STRONGLY with you. In addition to all of the above observations that I've debunked, can you tell me what you set the difficulty slider at? At level 9 and above in simulation mode, the game models trailing throttle oversteer convincingly, and the car feels very solid to drive. At difficulty level 3, I can rund around Indy flat out and put up impressive lap times. At difficulty 11, I couldn't do it. Not only did I have to lift, but I had to lift carefully to avoid inducing oversteer, and at the same time had to lift enough to avoid pushing into the wall. This is one of the better oval physics models I've seen. Your assessment of the car physics and AI just doesn't wash with me. Sorry. What a pity you didn't get it right. Oh well, you have a right to your opinion, even if you didn't spend enough time with the game to see all the stuff that I have. Randy

> >and some of my fastest laps have come after flipping end over end at over 200mph > >while playing the game on the "simulation" setting. > At what level of difficulty? The game doesn't simulate real life > physics and difficulty utnil you reach 9. 10 and Expert are meant to > go beyond 'real'. In the context of a simulation, what does "going beyond 'real'" buy you? ---Jim

>What a pity you didn't get it right. Oh well, you have a right to >your opinion, even if you didn't spend enough time with the game to >see all the stuff that I have. So overall, are you enjoying Indy Racing? What are the graphics/frame-rate like? I presume it has 3dfx support? Joe

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>> >and some of my fastest laps have come after flipping end over end at over 200mph >> >while playing the game on the "simulation" setting. >> At what level of difficulty? The game doesn't simulate real life >> physics and difficulty utnil you reach 9. 10 and Expert are meant to >> go beyond 'real'. >In the context of a simulation, what does "going beyond 'real'" buy >you?

The same thing as turning opponents over 100% in Papyrus sims or turning off opposite lock help in GP2 :) According to the people I spoke to there, levels 10 and Expert were meant to handle the kind of people who just seem to have a knack for these things, you know, the Darrel Cherry's of the world. Randy

>>What a pity you didn't get it right. Oh well, you have a right to >>your opinion, even if you didn't spend enough time with the game to >>see all the stuff that I have. >So overall, are you enjoying Indy Racing? What are the >graphics/frame-rate like? I presume it has 3dfx support? Yes, overall I'm enjoying it. I've dome some investigating into some of the complaints people brought up here online about it, and the damage issue is the one that really is the most valid. They simply do not show enough damage, nor does it affect the car as much as one would expect it too. But the other 95% of the time you're racing, not crashing, and the driving model is quite nice. One thing that I've discovered is that by driving the sprint cars on the dirt tracks and short asphalt tracks like Indy Raceway Park is that they've sharpened my skills at getting through corners by balancing the throttle rather than just winding and unwinding the wheel. This sim is the best I've seen at simulating trailing throttle oversteer, particularly in the sprints, so you have to learn how much to turn the wheel, and how to modulate the gas, so you corner at the limit without breaking the car loose or spinning it. Granted, on the dirt tracks, you basically drive in oversteer on every turn, and that's great fun, but it really helps you develop a feel for the sim, and I found that driving the IRL cars was much easier after that in the corners, because I'd gotten pretty good at walking that throttle tightrope. The sprint car races are also good fun. They are competitive, difficult and fun to get right. As an ardently religious CART fan it turns my stomach to say this <G> but I really like Indy Racing, and the more I've learned about how the difficulty slider works and what happens with the physics model, the more I've enjoyed it. Now if I can just get online with someone <G> Randy

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The sprint car I could not agree more on this game. We need to beg Papy to do Sprints, this is THE most exciting form of racing around (IMHO) Bob

say Ihaven't. Disagreeing is one thing....Telling someone they haven't done something that they say they have is quite another. I haven't done that to you so I would appreciate the Fine. I apologize for calling you a liar. Nonetheless your facts are wrong. There are yellows in the game. There is damage in the game. spoken to, besides you, seems to agree that this is no "sim", but you are certainly entitled to your opinion! The real heart of the problem revolves around the criteria people use to define something as a "sim". 95% of the posts attacking this title have based this claim on either the damage model or the AI. If I had to hand out grades, I'd give the damage model a D and the AI a B-. I'd give the driving model an A, which is why I think more highly of it than other people. I define a sim first and foremost by how accurately the driving model is simulated. Only after that do I look at damage and AI. 98% of my time in a racing sim is spent driving the car, not crashing. I would be the first to agree if you're definition of "sim" revolves around fully realistic damage then this game is not a sim. However, if your definition of a sim revolves around its driving model and handling physics, then it *IS* a simulation. Again, if you can provide anything to contradict this, I welcome your input. But THIS is the reason that I stand behind my original comments that this is a sim. And no one has yet provided any kind of data to prove me wrong on this. Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

racing? >> Yes. You can see the roll bars around you and some of the hood. You can also zoom in and out, and see a small portion of the wheels spinning and turning in front of you. What's also neat is that its light sourced, so that if you're racing at night you'll see the light reflecting off your car's body work. There aren't any instruments or anything though, so if you're talking about a 'dashboard' per se there isn't one. Virge? >> I'm sure you can, its just a question of how much you're willing to compromise the appearance. In addition to a slew of Papyrus on/off/auto settings for the graphics, there is also a detail slider which determines detail and distance of draw in. I believe you can get the frame rates you want. What I can't answer is whether you'll be satisfied with the tradeoffs you have to make to get them. On the P300/nVidia Riva 128 system I'm running, everything is on and the frame rate is smooth, but then that's to be expected from my system. Your mileage may vary. Oh, one thing. Does the S3 Virge support Direct3D? Because a 3D accelerator is listed as REQUIRED on the box. Yes. That's what I'm using. I've used a T2 and a NASCAR Pro Wheel from Thrustmaster both plugged into my SB AWE 64 and it works fine. This is a Win95/Direct3D only game. It is. But it can be difficult. I had to turn the difficulty/realism slider down to about a 5 before I could get the thing around the corners without spinning it into the wall. You really have to let those tails wag out there to get around these tracks, and you have to develop a good touch on the throttle. The neat thing is that the better you get at the sprint cars, the easier you'll find it to manage the IRL cars through turns without inducing spins, since they have wings and stick better than the Sprint cars do. Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

> >The sprint car >portion is the only reason I didn't take this game back. I was > >desperate to race sprints in the dirt and find it pretty cool in this game. SNIP Some quick questions: Does ABC:Indy have an "in car" view for the Sprint racing? Also, think I can get smooth frame rates on a P233MMX, 32 Meg SDRAM, S3 Virge? Will it support a T2 on a SB AWE 64? Is this game's OS thru the dreaded Win95 platform, or can it go DOS? The sprint racing sounds like fun. Thanks... Andre Ming O.F. Racing