GTR Demo

Gave this a good run tonight, and it's pretty much exactly as I expected. It's F1C except with GT cars. Feels and looks just like F1C, which is great. With the default setup I managed a 2:15, but there were some major mistakes, so I'm sure a 2:12 is possible eventually. At first, the car was unstable and I wasn't too thrilled with how it felt. Then I decided I'd do a little experiment and check and see what would happen if I set up my wheel with the *exact* same settings as I do in F1C. It instantly felt much, much better (as opposed to default settings), and I quickly put up the 2:15. That proves to me how much this game is connected to F1C. It's funny when I read in various forums where guys who have been critical of F1C are trying to come up with an explanation as to why they like this demo, and think the physics are so great. They are doing their best to try and convince people that there's a major difference between the two. Fact is, they were just plain wrong about F1C. They obviously just don't like modern F1, can't come to grips with the F1 cars, or they didn't bother to give F1C enough time due to being strangely devoted fans of other developers. My only problem with this sim is that the cars are so slow compared to the F1 cars in F1C. The thrill (as with the NASCAR and TPTCC cars) just isn't there for me. I could lap one of these GT cars with an F1 car in a handful of laps. Schumacher said recently, "I like precise cars," he says. "I don't like these heavy things. They are so slow, and I think they are going too slow for me. I try always to do more than they can do." That's basically how I feel about any sim car that isn't an F1 jet. I enjoy racing the other types of cars online, but offline I very quickly get bored. I'm sure now though that GTR will be the best non-F1 sim when it's released. David G Fisher

David, just out of curiosity. What do you have your wheel settings set to? I haven't tried F1C so I don't have a comparison to make. Pete "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Gave this a good run tonight, and it's pretty much exactly as I expected. > It's F1C except with GT cars. Feels and looks just like F1C, which is > great. > > With the default setup I managed a 2:15, but there were some majormistakes, > so I'm sure a 2:12 is possible eventually. > > At first, the car was unstable and I wasn't too thrilled with how it felt. > Then I decided I'd do a little experiment and check and see what would > happen if I set up my wheel with the *exact* same settings as I do in F1C. > It instantly felt much, much better (as opposed to default settings), andI > quickly put up the 2:15. That proves to me how much this game is connected > to F1C. It's funny when I read in various forums where guys who have been > critical of F1C are trying to come up with an explanation as to why they > like this demo, and think the physics are so great. They are doing their > best to try and convince people that there's a major difference betweenthe > two. Fact is, they were just plain wrong about F1C. They obviously just > don't like modern F1, can't come to grips with the F1 cars, or they didn't > bother to give F1C enough time due to being strangely devoted fans ofother > developers. > > My only problem with this sim is that the cars are so slow compared to the > F1 cars in F1C. The thrill (as with the NASCAR and TPTCC cars) just isn't > there for me. I could lap one of these GT cars with an F1 car in a handful > of laps. Schumacher said recently, "I like precise cars," he says. "Idon't > like these heavy things. They > are so slow, and I think they are going too slow for me. I try always > to do more than they can do." > > That's basically how I feel about any sim car that isn't an F1 jet. Ienjoy > racing the other types of cars online, but offline I very quickly getbored. > > I'm sure now though that GTR will be the best non-F1 sim when it'sreleased. > > David G Fisher > > > >

It's very fashionable to bash modern F1. Didn't you know that? ;-)

On Mon, 3 May 2004 00:47:08 -0400, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> It's funny when I read in various forums where guys who have been >critical of F1C are trying to come up with an explanation as to why they >like this demo, and think the physics are so great. They are doing their >best to try and convince people that there's a major difference between the >two. Fact is, they were just plain wrong about F1C. They obviously just >don't like modern F1, can't come to grips with the F1 cars, or they didn't >bother to give F1C enough time due to being strangely devoted fans of other >developers.

I can't speak for anyone else (you'd be surprised how often I've had to defend F1C to people who still think GPL is the greatest sim ever) but I like F1C except for 2 things: the multi code, and the poor track design. I still fire up F1C for some laps around Brand's, Laguna, or Donington, which are all pretty nice (the version I have of Brand's still has that stupid poly-seam in Druids, but other than that it's a great track). On that note, the thing that has me most excited about the GTR demo is having a good version of Spa. I really wish it didn't use the new file format becuse I'd love to import it into F1C. Jason

"David G Fisher" wrote... > Gave this a good run tonight, and it's pretty much exactly > as I expected. It's F1C except with GT cars. Feels and looks > just like F1C, which is great. I'm pretty much of the same opinion. Except I would say it looks better than and feels exactly like the GTR2002, which is, indeed, a wonderfull thing. Even more so seeing as, once released, it's not going to be an F1 game underneath anymore and we'll be able to have proper GT races (possibly even online!). > With the default setup I managed a 2:15, but there were some > major mistakes, so I'm sure a 2:12 is possible eventually. You just had to be quicker than your average Joe, hadn't you? <vbg>

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> At first, the car was unstable and I wasn't too thrilled with > how it felt. Then I decided I'd do a little experiment and > check and see what would happen if I set up my wheel with the > *exact* same settings as I do in F1C. > It instantly felt much, much better (as opposed to default > settings), and I quickly put up the 2:15. That proves to me > how much this game is connected to F1C.

They've licensed the ISI/F1C physics engine, so I don't see why our wheel settings should be any different. > It's funny when I read in various forums where guys who have > been critical of F1C are trying to come up with an explanation > as to why they like this demo, and think the physics are so > great. They are doing their best to try and convince people > that there's a major difference between the two. There isn't, but people often confuse actual physics calculations with the implementation, i.e. the data fed into the engine in order to simulate a particular car/series. > Fact is, they were just plain wrong about F1C. They obviously > just don't like modern F1, can't come to grips with the F1 > cars, or they didn't bother to give F1C enough time due to > being strangely devoted fans of other developers. Perception is a hard thing to overcome. I think F1C is a good representation as well.

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> My only problem with this sim is that the cars are so slow > compared to the F1 cars in F1C. The thrill (as with the > NASCAR and TPTCC cars) just isn't there for me. I could lap > one of these GT cars with an F1 car in a handful of laps. > Schumacher said recently, "I like precise cars," he says. > "I don't like these heavy things. They are so slow, and I > think they are going too slow for me. I try always to do > more than they can do." > > That's basically how I feel about any sim car that isn't > an F1 jet. I enjoy racing the other types of cars online, > but offline I very quickly get bored.

I agree, for online racing, the sort of car doesn't really matter. The racing does. Offline I drive to enjoy my driving and, in that respect, the modern F1s are just a bit intense for my liking. It would take a considerable effort on my part to get to a reasonable level with them and, seeing as my spare simming time is limited as it is, I prefer something that's easier to pick up like LFS or GT2002/ETCC. Which is not to say I don't drive an F1 car now and again, badly. ;-)) > I'm sure now though that GTR will be the best non-F1 sim > when it's released. It's hard to make a call like that, but it will rival NR2003/PWFTA for some. Jan. =---

On Mon, 3 May 2004 00:55:03 -0400, Pete wrote: > David, just out of curiosity. What do you have your wheel settings > set to? I haven't tried F1C so I don't have a comparison to make. > > Pete > I think dave recommends 50% sensitivity and cranking up the wheel lock as high as possible until the car becomes too squiggly. cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

50% is the default for the x axis sensitivity setting in both F1C and GTR. I turn it down to 35% and the car instantly feels much better. It then feels like it has some weight (like a machine made of metal instead of balsa wood :-) ), and I can run a far smoother lap. Of course this steering setting might not be the correct one work for other wheels, but for my Thrustmaster Ferrari FF wheel it's what works. I'd suggest that people try different settings and see if it helps. My other wheel settings are 50% sensitivity for both throttle and brake, 0 speed sensivity, and 0 deadzone. In case someone doesn't know, you find these settings on the controller screen, where there is a button on the right called "advanced". David G Fisher "Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 3 May 2004 00:55:03 -0400, Pete wrote: > > David, just out of curiosity. What do you have your wheel settings > > set to? I haven't tried F1C so I don't have a comparison to make. > > > > Pete > > > > I think dave recommends 50% sensitivity and cranking up the wheel lock > as high as possible until the car becomes too squiggly. > > cheers, > > uwe > > > > -- > mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) > Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In case you don't see my reply to Uwe: 50% is the default for the x axis sensitivity setting in both F1C and GTR. I turn it down to 35% and the car instantly feels much better. It then feels like it has some weight (like a machine made of metal instead of balsa wood :-) ), and I can run a far smoother lap. Of course this steering setting might not be the correct one work for other wheels, but for my Thrustmaster Ferrari FF wheel it's what works. I'd suggest that people try different settings and see if it helps. My other wheel settings are 50% sensitivity for both throttle and brake, 0 speed sensivity, and 0 deadzone. In case someone doesn't know, you find these settings on the controller screen, where there is a button on the right called "advanced". David G Fisher "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Kgklc.14385$[email hidden]...

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> David, just out of curiosity. What do you have your wheel settings > set to? I haven't tried F1C so I don't have a comparison to make. > > Pete > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Gave this a good run tonight, and it's pretty much exactly as I

expected.

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> > It's F1C except with GT cars. Feels and looks just like F1C, which is > > great. > > > > With the default setup I managed a 2:15, but there were some major > mistakes, > > so I'm sure a 2:12 is possible eventually. > > > > At first, the car was unstable and I wasn't too thrilled with how it

felt. > > Then I decided I'd do a little experiment and check and see what would > > happen if I set up my wheel with the *exact* same settings as I do inF1C. > > It instantly felt much, much better (as opposed to default settings),and > I > > quickly put up the 2:15. That proves to me how much this game isconnected > > to F1C. It's funny when I read in various forums where guys who havebeen > > critical of F1C are trying to come up with an explanation as to why they > > like this demo, and think the physics are so great. They are doing their > > best to try and convince people that there's a major difference between > the > > two. Fact is, they were just plain wrong about F1C. They obviously just > > don't like modern F1, can't come to grips with the F1 cars, or theydidn't > > bother to give F1C enough time due to being strangely devoted fans of > other > > developers. > > > > My only problem with this sim is that the cars are so slow compared tothe > > F1 cars in F1C. The thrill (as with the NASCAR and TPTCC cars) justisn't > > there for me. I could lap one of these GT cars with an F1 car in ahandful

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> > of laps. Schumacher said recently, "I like precise cars," he says. "I > don't > > like these heavy things. They > > are so slow, and I think they are going too slow for me. I try always > > to do more than they can do." > > > > That's basically how I feel about any sim car that isn't an F1 jet. I > enjoy > > racing the other types of cars online, but offline I very quickly get > bored. > > > > I'm sure now though that GTR will be the best non-F1 sim when it's > released. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > >

> I turn it down to 35% and the car instantly feels much better. It thenfeels > like it has some weight (like a machine made of metal instead of balsawood > :-) ), and I can run a far smoother lap. For those familiar with Papy games, 50% is full linear - 0% is full non-linear. I prefer to run at 50% and reduce the steering lock a little if it's too twitchy.

David G Fisher wrote: > 50% is the default for the x axis sensitivity setting in both F1C and GTR. I have that set to 15%, and throttle and brake as well I think, or only slightly higher, like 25%. However, a lot can be done by tweaking the slow bump/rebound settings and the diff. Both affect the under/oversteer behaviour considerably. I'm using a 50/50 diff right now. Achim

Thanks all. Gives me some things to work with. Pete "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c75ee9$i0pck$[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > > 50% is the default for the x axis sensitivity setting in both F1C andGTR.

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> > I have that set to 15%, and throttle and brake as well I think, or only > slightly higher, like 25%. > > However, a lot can be done by tweaking the slow bump/rebound settings > and the diff. Both affect the under/oversteer behaviour considerably. > > I'm using a 50/50 diff right now. > > Achim

Something feels different about this GTR demo vs F1C to me Dave. Throttle response at slow speeds seem much more crisp. All of the ISI F1 sims and even Papy sims (other than GPL) seem to have a throttle response lag or dead spot at low speed. You punch the throttle but until you gather some revs you get nothing, certainly not like any 7-800hp engine Ive ever seen. And yes traction control is off ;) I don't know if it's programmed in to accommodate the less hardcore simmers but it's always bugged me to no end. GTR overcomes this where all the other F1C mods don't. Yes I know this isnt your ordinary mod :) Other than that you can sure tell it's F1C lineage. 2:15's, jeeeez. Cant imagine making up much more time let alone 2+ seconds. Sure is fun trying though. I do stay on track throughout the lap, is there a shortcut you guys take :) Mitch "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Gave this a good run tonight, and it's pretty much exactly as I expected. > It's F1C except with GT cars. Feels and looks just like F1C, which is > great. > > With the default setup I managed a 2:15, but there were some majormistakes, > so I'm sure a 2:12 is possible eventually. > > At first, the car was unstable and I wasn't too thrilled with how it felt. > Then I decided I'd do a little experiment and check and see what would > happen if I set up my wheel with the *exact* same settings as I do in F1C. > It instantly felt much, much better (as opposed to default settings), andI > quickly put up the 2:15. That proves to me how much this game is connected > to F1C. It's funny when I read in various forums where guys who have been > critical of F1C are trying to come up with an explanation as to why they > like this demo, and think the physics are so great. They are doing their > best to try and convince people that there's a major difference betweenthe > two. Fact is, they were just plain wrong about F1C. They obviously just > don't like modern F1, can't come to grips with the F1 cars, or they didn't > bother to give F1C enough time due to being strangely devoted fans ofother > developers. > > My only problem with this sim is that the cars are so slow compared to the > F1 cars in F1C. The thrill (as with the NASCAR and TPTCC cars) just isn't > there for me. I could lap one of these GT cars with an F1 car in a handful > of laps. Schumacher said recently, "I like precise cars," he says. "Idon't > like these heavy things. They > are so slow, and I think they are going too slow for me. I try always > to do more than they can do." > > That's basically how I feel about any sim car that isn't an F1 jet. Ienjoy > racing the other types of cars online, but offline I very quickly getbored. > > I'm sure now though that GTR will be the best non-F1 sim when it'sreleased. > > David G Fisher > > > >

"Mitch_A" wrote: > Something feels different about this GTR demo vs F1C to me Dave. Throttle > response at slow speeds seem much more crisp. All of the ISI F1 sims and > even Papy sims (other than GPL) seem to have a throttle response lag ordead > spot at low speed. You punch the throttle but until you gather some revs > you get nothing, certainly not like any 7-800hp engine Ive ever seen. Interesting cos that is exactly what I am complaining of with GTR!. Particularly when coming off the gas there seems to be a huge throttle lag. Maybe some controllers/Pc combos work better than others?