Frame rates of 25 to 30 with most of the graphic options OFF is not very
good? What options are you running with and what frame rates do you get
with everything on?
Defending CART Precision Racing and racing on the Zone
Posters debated whether CPR's frame rates were acceptable and whether critics simply had badly configured systems. Members of the CART team encouraged people to try the trial and described good multiplayer racing on Microsoft's Internet Gaming Zone, though Randy Magruder reported latency spikes. Users also complained that the Zone required Internet Explorer.
With Dean (Microsoft CART Precision Racing team); Eric (Microsoft Zone/CART team)
Automated summary.
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small question.......
I downloaded this yesterday, and havent played with it a *lot*, yet...
and I haven't noticed the "dirt" looking track, and other things people
keep talking about,,, (unless I run in the lowest resolution, then you cant
see where to turn)
I have noticed that my gameplay reduces, as others have mentioned, when
the hardware acceleration is set to "ON".
It looks to be a pretty awesome sim, especially for those of you with the
faster machines, I bet... but here's my question....actually, there are
two.
1) how do you determine framerate in this game......?
2) where is the "crew chief" help, and tuning that I have heard of...?
thanks for any replies :)
--
Handy^Man
IVGA 4924 ~~pulling for #8 in 1998 ! :)~~
ICQ 3551448 GOoooo #3 !!
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note: Pulling for #8 in 98~~~!!!!! Goooo #3 !!
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Quoted text (21 lines)
> This posting is to clear up some misinformation I've noticed on this > newsgoup regarding CPR. The sim is a tremendous product. The problems > people are having (frame rate, handling) are within their own system, not > within the CPR product. I have the full version, and on this system: > Gateway 200mmx, 32 megs, STB 4 meg graphics card, NO 3dfx card, I have > frame rates consistently around 25 and as high as 30! Again, no 3dfx card. > Graphics are fabulous, and handling is amazing. Smooth, precise, and > accurate. With a T2, I'm able to do 200 mph while a foot away from the wall > with no problem. Play with the handling settings (I have linear and speed > sensitive sliders all the way to the right). Read the FAQ's and learn how > to adjust the handling and the AI. Every graphic and sound option you > enable takes away from your frame rate and affects game play. For example, > turn your sound to mono and 8 bit and you add 3fps. Turn off the map. Some > problems can be easily fixed with a very SIMPLE solution. Do a re-install > and make sure you have at least 150 megs of free space on your hard drive. > The facts are, my system is not unusual and I am getting the performance > I've described, so if you are having problems, it lies within your system, > NOT the product. A 3dfx card will only make this sim even more amazing and > will enable you to use all the graphics and sound options and achieve an > even higher frame rate. Also, game zone play is excellent. The CART team > has created a tremendous sim.>1) how do you determine framerate in this game......?
type the word "frame" (not the quotes though) when you start the
race/test session. There is a little tiny display in the lower right
corner... Then hit the "m" again to get rid of the map...
Only in the full product as far as I know....
- Mike.
====================================================
Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================
Thanks for your posting!
Yes, there are many many people enjoying CPR
without necessarily posting a message saying so.
Postings, as always, mainly focus on the negative. Though
this is not necessarily a bad thing - tells us what to
work on first! ;)
We encourage everyone reading this group to
download the trial and make up their own minds.
That's what it's for.
And keep sending the feedback - we are working with TRi
right now looking at ALL the postings and email.
fyi - my teams also develop Flight Simulator, and it is
through precisely this feedback process that that Sim has
stayed so strong.
And thanks for all the feedback already submitted - it is
not being ignored. Far from it ...
Expect news soon.
MS/TRi CPR Team.
--
Posted using Reference.COM http://www.reference.com
Browse, Search and Post Usenet and Mailing list Archive and Catalog.
InReference, Inc. accepts no responsibility for the content of this posting.
Quoted text (12 lines)
> >small question....... > > I downloaded this yesterday, and havent played with it a *lot*, yet... > >and I haven't noticed the "dirt" looking track, and other things people > >keep talking about,,, (unless I run in the lowest resolution, then you cant > >see where to turn) > Hey Chris, > 1) Be sure to have the latest drivers. > 2) Be sure you have set the "GAMMA" for your drivers. Some monitors and video > carda are dark to begin with.Hi David,
This posting is too clear_away some of the fog too...This is not a
flame, as I appreciate and respect your view. =)
The problem with this statement (regarding frame rate) is that system
performance goes hand_in_hand with the game's "overhead." IMHO the
game's requirements are far too great for the majority of those who
will either purchase it or simply download the trial version. The
basic beef I have with CPR is that there isn't enough items to switch
to an acceptable setting for decent gameplay.
As an example, in other sims you can turn-off textures to objects, but
have the objects remain. This helps with using points on the track as
a reference for turn-ins, brake-points, etc. If you're forced to turn
down the level of detail, and also loose all (or most) of your visual
aids, then you can't do what a few others can - like turning a fast
lap. This comes from my own real racing experience, and not something
pulled from the sim archives.
Your system is only slightly above what I would call "minimum-req's"
for running the game successfully. I look at it from a realist POV,
rather than a marketing standpoint. I have a P166, and even though it
can't match the performance of any of the newer systems out there, it
benchmarks higher than any other 166 (standard chipset) I've seen. I
think that my system is "above average" for what others have currently.
Too many in this newsgroup seem to have a bad case of tunnel-vision in
regards to what they feel is "an average system" - not to say that I'm
any less guilty, but since my business_world revolves around systems
(and my personal_world revolves around sims), my take on the whole
deal may be less clouded than most.
BTW, I too have the full version. Sits all by its lonesome on a 4.3gb
Deskstar drive. =)
Perhaps not 100% perfect for the "real_world", but certainly perfect
for "my_world." =) I too find the handling and physics very nicely
put together.
Your points are well taken, and others should try them before passing
judgement on what I think is a nice sim. Looks as though MS/TRI are
in it for the long_haul, and this is a good thing for us simmers! =)
However, there's too many ON/OFF options combining both textures and
objects, and not enough ON/OFF for this texture (but leave the bridge
where it is) type of thing.
The fact is, although your system is not "unusual" it certainly isn't
the "norm" for most (as my statements above outline).
True - higher, but not enough unless you have at least an MMX/P-166.
This statement alone could start a fire in the rain! The overhead of
CART, coupled with the (assumed) overhead of the two-browser windows
running (not to mention if Win95 burps), will surely lead to a less
than satisfying experience on the Zone. Plenty of this may have to do
with the speed of your modem, and this in itself wouldn't be so bad if
all you had to do was buy a faster one.
The problem is the modem you connect to when playing this sim...You
know, the one that's lying in some building a half_klick away? I don't
know about you, but the fastest connection (on paper) I can get is 28.8
(set to 56k), unless I dial out of the county. Analysis: better think
about an ISDN if you can't (reasonably) connect to a 56k server. Just
too many things happening at once in the same place - a bottle neck
that is (for the most part) out of the user's hands.
Agreed! CPR, GP2, and soon GPL...Mucho good things to keep us warm and
cozy for years...<sound of rustling paper>..Now where did I put that ad
I saw about the ASUS-AGP+PII-266?...I see it's time to do some creative
financing...
...again. ;)
Cheers!
Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing Online / Sim Racing News / The Sim Project
http://members.aol.com/simracing
I am not exactly sure what you mean there, but I will throw in my own
experience with racing on the Zone: generally excellent.
I have been in races with anywhere from 2 to 5 racers and it has been
great fun. If someone has a high latency to the Zone (which is easy to
see), then there can be some warping, but thankfully the sim runs at
full speed regardless. In a race with 4 racers and good latencies,
there was essentially no warping -- a very smooth race.
Compared to my racing on Kali, racing with CPR in the Zone is far
superior.
Jim Getzen
---------------------------------------------
Unofficial CART Precision Racing Headquarters
http://members.home.net/getzen/
---------------------------------------------
This is precisely what I am hoping with CPR. It's an impressive first
effort (although not without it's flaws as you see on the newsgroup),
but applying the same process of continuous imrovement as seen with
the FS series should see stronger and stronger products in future.
BTW, one request. Is it possible to not quote the w-h-o-l-e message
you are responding to and just add your comments to the bottom? It's
bat netiquette (I hate that word!) and annoying to scroll down to see
the response. It's more polite to quote only the sections you are
responding to, and even then only enough of that to give the gist of
what was said.
Looking forward to the results of all these discussions, your office
must be a whirl of discussions just now :)
Cheers!
John
One major flaw in your message - you're assuming that you know more
about system configuration than everyone else on this newsgroup. We
KNOW about all the configuration options, have tried them all, and are
STILL less than satisfied.
Cheers!
John
got into a multiplayer CART PR game on the internet or via the zone.>>
Eric,
I've done several races and attempts to race on the Zone. My feeling is that
the latency and spikes are just too big to make it as fun as it should be. I
was trying to run down a slower car at Laguna Seca -- as long as I was well
away from him things were acceptable, but as I got closer, the warping just
got so bad that I was bashing into the back of him because he was 'beaming'
forward and back. There was no "precision" involved (pardon the pun). The
problem doesn't happen much in regular modem play, though -- just Internet
play. I'm not sure what can be done about it. This is a latency/Internet
problem and the only solution I see is to try to build yourself a low latency
network the way many of the online *** services are doing. One thing that
COULD be done is that you could do profile testing of a user's latency, give
them an index, and then allow those that host games to specify maximum latency
allowed so that only people with low enough latency could join the game. TEN
does this, and it used to be that I couldn't even play Red Alert sometimes
because of poor latency, but at least I wasn't dragging everyone else down.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
[link lost in import]
>While we're on the subject of the zone, can you comment on whether there
>will ever be support for Netscape Navigator?
I think anyone who has observed Microsoft can answer that with a firm
an unqualified NO.
Joe
Quoted text (7 lines)
> >This posting is to clear up some misinformation I've noticed on this > >newsgoup regarding CPR. > One major flaw in your message - you're assuming that you know more > about system configuration than everyone else on this newsgroup. We > KNOW about all the configuration options, have tried them all, and are > STILL less than satisfied.It's on the schedule of things to do for the developers. It's on the
list right below the item that says "Include Zone support for ICR2 and
NASCAR2"....
Don't hold your breath...
Cheers!
John
> =
> =
> >While we're on the subject of the zone, can you comment on whether the= re
> >will ever be support for Netscape Navigator?
> =
> I think anyone who has observed Microsoft can answer that with a firm
> an unqualified NO.
Well, I agree with you. I only ask because when you try to load www.zone=
=2Ecom in
Navigator, it says:
"We're sorry. The new Zone doesn't currently support...Netscape=AE Naviga=
tor
browsers"
"Doesn't currently" implies that it will subsequent to now, but like you =
said, I
have no faith in this since the "browser war" continues to rage on.
Anyway, will one of the Microsoft guys please answer this?
-- =
The Scripps Research Institute
http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith
I believe the answer to that question is also "no". ;-)
Joe
You may have a point Jarrod, but I don't know the Zone folk's business. What
I do know is that it seems to work pretty well for many people. When you
play a game via the zone, the zone software (and IE for that matter) get out
of the way once you start the game. The communications are done directly
between CART PR on the seperate machines. Yes, there is some overhead
because IE is in virtual memory & will have to be discarded/swapped out, but
once that happens, I'd expect there to be very minimal impact.
As for the Zone implementation, CART is a mere client. You'll need to take
up issues with their strategy directly with them. How's that for punting ;)
Eric.
Thanks! glad you found something to like about CART PR John :)
As for zoning from work - that will not work if your LAN access has a
firewall. Hate to see you waste time & get frustrated ...
Eric.
Hi Eric:)
I have found that when i play a game with IE in the background, my
framerate takes a huge hit from 18fps down to about 12. however, if I
wait for CPR to start up and connect, then go and quit IE, my framerate
runs back at 18fps again. I have an IE phobia though:) i always use
Netscape except for the Zone. i guess this justifies it a little:)
Quoted text (7 lines)
> You may have a point Jarrod, but I don't know the Zone folk's business. What > I do know is that it seems to work pretty well for many people. When you > play a game via the zone, the zone software (and IE for that matter) get out > of the way once you start the game. The communications are done directly > between CART PR on the seperate machines. Yes, there is some overhead > because IE is in virtual memory & will have to be discarded/swapped out, but > once that happens, I'd expect there to be very minimal impact.I get over 50-55fps in GLQuake pretty solidly, but CART fluctuates
drastically. 20-22fps with all eye-candy, a dip to 12fps when the
screen is busy with polys and textures, and down to 4fps when the
other three CCs are big on my screen. That's with a P225MMX and 60Mhz
3dFX - not exactly an underpowered system. When the CCs are all in
front of me the sim often won't accept my gear shift instructions, so
it looks like I'll have to back waaay off on the graphics settings.
I don't recall having to do that in any other 3dFX game, so I have to
wonder what on earth CART is doing to saturate the system so much.
Cheers!
John
Quoted text (13 lines)
> >John, he's right about our inferior system setups. I think, that's the > >reason I'm getting 41 fps in glQuake and 15 fps in CART... 8^) > I get over 50-55fps in GLQuake pretty solidly, but CART fluctuates > drastically. 20-22fps with all eye-candy, a dip to 12fps when the > screen is busy with polys and textures, and down to 4fps when the > other three CCs are big on my screen. That's with a P225MMX and 60Mhz > 3dFX - not exactly an underpowered system. When the CCs are all in > front of me the sim often won't accept my gear shift instructions, so > it looks like I'll have to back waaay off on the graphics settings. > I don't recall having to do that in any other 3dFX game, so I have to > wonder what on earth CART is doing to saturate the system so much.Quoted text (12 lines)
> You may have a point Jarrod, but I don't know the Zone folk's business. What > I do know is that it seems to work pretty well for many people. When you > play a game via the zone, the zone software (and IE for that matter) get out > of the way once you start the game. The communications are done directly > between CART PR on the seperate machines. Yes, there is some overhead > because IE is in virtual memory & will have to be discarded/swapped out, but > once that happens, I'd expect there to be very minimal impact. > As for the Zone implementation, CART is a mere client. You'll need to take > up issues with their strategy directly with them. How's that for punting ;) > Eric.ERICST, I have also had very good races in CPR Trial on the zone, and as a
current MTM racer I will wait for the full product and more than three racers to
let you know if it's any better than MTM.
Is there anyway of implementing a joystick/wheel configuration setup similar to
GP2 in CPR? I would like to be able to set different sensitivities for my
steering, brake and throttle.
Thanks for a good racing game, I will definitely buy this one.
Quoted text (21 lines)
> > I'm curious about the experience others on RAS have had once they actually > > got into a multiplayer CART PR game on the internet or via the zone. > Eric, I've had a lot of fun on The Zone with the Trial Version. If the > races were longer than 4 laps, it would be more fun.. :) > I was impressed with the fact that I was able to race within a few > minutes of connecting to the zone and downloading some stuff..no latency > problems, but I have ISDN. I played a guy who was in the red, and we > still had a decent race, much to my surprise. > And the connections don't drop, either...why isn't this the case in a > much slower moving game like Links LS98? Maybe you need to help out the > guys over at Access... > Good job on the multiplay! > -- > Neil Yeatman > Ajax, Ontario, CANADAQuoted text (9 lines)
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01BCEAD9.E24C8640 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Like they say, Microsoft site, you'll only use microsooft software and = >ie 4 does rule. I do got win98 beta if ya wnna fight.--------------C4DE521A7F53F7267E5EB439
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ha, ha......they won't Pal......the MS plot for world domination
continues relentlesly.
I wonder what MS have 'over' Zone? $$$$$$!!!
Jammer
--------------C4DE521A7F53F7267E5EB439
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<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Like they
say, Microsoft site, you'll only use microsooft software and ie 4 does
rule. I do got win98 beta if ya wnna fight.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>--</FONT></FONT>
<BR>
Sincerely,
<BR>
Mark F.Got a site on the Web? Want to promote or Join a Network? Heres
your place to go:
<BR><A HREF="http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/">http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/</A>
<BR>Want to learn NASCAR 2 and/or Icr2 Editing? Well, then come here!:
<BR><A HREF="http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/mypage/">http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/mypage/</A>
<BR>Best Page of The Web!:
<BR><A HREF="http://www.aolsucks.com">http://www.aolsucks.com</A>
<BR>(nospam)
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Jarrod
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>> >While we're on the subject of the zone, can you comment on whether
there
<BR>> >will ever be support for Netscape Navigator?
<BR>>
<BR>> I think anyone who has observed Microsoft can answer that with a
firm
<BR>> an unqualified NO.
<P>Well, I agree with you. I only ask because when you try to load
<A HREF="http://www.zone.com">www.zone.com</A> in
<BR>Navigator, it says:
<P>"We're sorry. The new Zone doesn't currently support...Netscape®
Navigator
<BR>browsers"
<P>"Doesn't currently" implies that it will subsequent to now, but like
you said, I
<BR>have no faith in this since the "browser war" continues to rage on.
<P>Anyway, will one of the Microsoft guys please answer this?
<P>--
<BR>The Scripps Research Institute
<BR><A HREF="http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith">http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Ha, ha......they won't Pal......the MS plot for world domination continues
relentlesly.
<BR>I wonder what MS have 'over' Zone? $$$$$$!!!
<P>Jammer
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------C4DE521A7F53F7267E5EB439--
Quoted text (48 lines)
> Like they say, Microsoft site, you'll only use microsooft software > and ie 4 does rule. I do got win98 beta if ya wnna fight. > -- > Sincerely, > Mark F.Got a site on the Web? Want to > promote or Join a Network? Heres your place to go: > http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/ > Want to learn NASCAR 2 and/or Icr2 Editing? Well, then come here!: > http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/mypage/ > Best Page of The Web!: > http://www.aolsucks.com > (nospam) > > >While we're on the subject of the zone, can you comment > on whether there > > >will ever be support for Netscape Navigator? > > I think anyone who has observed Microsoft can answer that > with a firm > > an unqualified NO. > Well, I agree with you. I only ask because when you try to > load www.zone.com in > Navigator, it says: > "We're sorry. The new Zone doesn't currently > support...Netscape? Navigator > browsers" > "Doesn't currently" implies that it will subsequent to now, > but like you said, I > have no faith in this since the "browser war" continues to > rage on. > Anyway, will one of the Microsoft guys please answer this? > -- > The Scripps Research Institute > http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith--------------CCD35ECFCE495F74E0909B06
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ha, ha......they won't Pal......the MS plot for world domination
continues relentlesly.
I wonder what MS have 'over' Zone? $$$$$$!!!
Jammer
--------------CCD35ECFCE495F74E0909B06
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Like they
say, Microsoft site, you'll only use microsooft software and ie 4 does
rule. I do got win98 beta if ya wnna fight.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>--</FONT></FONT>
<BR>
Sincerely,
<BR>
Mark F.Got a site on the Web? Want to promote or Join a Network? Heres
your place to go:
<BR><A HREF="http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/">http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/</A>
<BR>Want to learn NASCAR 2 and/or Icr2 Editing? Well, then come here!:
<BR><A HREF="http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/mypage/">http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/mypage/</A>
<BR>Best Page of The Web!:
<BR><A HREF="http://www.aolsucks.com">http://www.aolsucks.com</A>
<BR>(nospam)
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Jarrod
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>> >While we're on the subject of the zone, can you comment on whether
there
<BR>> >will ever be support for Netscape Navigator?
<BR>>
<BR>> I think anyone who has observed Microsoft can answer that with a
firm
<BR>> an unqualified NO.
<P>Well, I agree with you. I only ask because when you try to load
<A HREF="http://www.zone.com">www.zone.com</A> in
<BR>Navigator, it says:
<P>"We're sorry. The new Zone doesn't currently support...Netscape®
Navigator
<BR>browsers"
<P>"Doesn't currently" implies that it will subsequent to now, but like
you said, I
<BR>have no faith in this since the "browser war" continues to rage on.
<P>Anyway, will one of the Microsoft guys please answer this?
<P>--
<BR>The Scripps Research Institute
<BR><A HREF="http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith">http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Ha, ha......they won't Pal......the MS plot for world domination continues
relentlesly.
<BR>I wonder what MS have 'over' Zone? $$$$$$!!!
<P>Jammer
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------CCD35ECFCE495F74E0909B06--
