CART Precision Racing: I don't think so

I agree with everyone else..Another great Microsoft disaster. I have a Presario 8702 and with this game it makes my pc look like a Commodore 64...First of all it wont play the sound correct, which makes no sense since I have FS98 and it runs perfect...You cant judge the cars from a distance, the track is dirt, and with a Pentium 166, 24MB ram, 6mb video ram, I can even run this thing at minimum viewings...Oneonly has to HOPE that they fix all these problems before the final version arrives in the stores... Jeff in Ohio

Ditto here. After all those raves that sounded like paid adverti***ts, I thought something must be amiss here. I've been playing racing games on a pc since almost day 1 and I can't do a thing with CPR. Maybe my pc is just too slow, but FS6 works fine so I do have my doubts about my pc being a complete slug.

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>I just completed removing and deleting this game. What a joke. >The track looked like brown dirt. >There was stuttering/pausing at several places. This is with >hardware (3DFX) acceleration. >I did not like how the scenery was being rendered as I drove along. >The track scenery should be STATIC! >Very bad z-buffering. >It looked as bad as ICR1 does now. I could not make out where the >curves were. Very poor situational awareness. >IMHO ICR2, Nascar2 & GP2 are far superior in graphics. >Yuck the graphics are just wretched. I am used to high quality graphics >like Jetfighter3 and Flying Corps for 3DFX accelerated games. >-- >Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> Yuck the graphics are just wretched. I am used to high quality graphics > like Jetfighter3 and Flying Corps for 3DFX accelerated games. CART:PR IS NOT ACCELERATED FOR 3dFX!!!!!!!!!!! It is for Direct3d.. maybe you should look into things before opening up that negative mouth of yours.. -- Dave Otterness

There's no use being negative, just don't buy it. Then we'll have to wait for developers to realize that piracy isn't the reason sales are down before they decide to start listening. I'm still trying to workout what graphics bits are chewing up the framerate? ICR2 has car textures, grass textures, track texture, guard rail adverts, billboards, trees, and grandstands/buildings too. For me its a shame, so many things good and some important things bad...

actually gave me a much more refreshing feeling and hope for the final

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>release! >Ron L. >(Please remove the extra letter(s) to respond) >Home of the SSC http://www3.pgh.net/~lazer/ >For Nascar2 & Winston Cup Fans!

Where did u get the UBI F1 demo from?

>Err.. JFIII?? Are you nuts?? It's "pixelated". Try EF2k 2.0. Much better >graphics. >BTW, I have JFIII.. so I know what I am talking about..; ) With the latest 'Platinum' 3dfx patch? If you think that is ugly I'm sorry but I'll have to take your asthetic judgements with a grain of salt. JF3 is one of the most gorgeous, fastest computer games ever with the latext patch. CPR, on the other hand, is butt-ugly for a 3dfx game. Not as bad as MTM (which is the ugliest 3dfx game I've ever seen) but still 3rd-rate for sure. Joe

Did you both have the "draw ahead" setting (or whatever its called) the same? ctrl +f to increase, ctrl-h to decrease - I think that's the keys (check the readme). Too bad this control isn't with the graphics options where it belongs. And I agree too that we should more options to fine tune the graphics.

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> Another niggle in the sim is that I have a sneaky suspicion that the > game decides how much to actually start drawing ahead, based on > your system specs. I ran with a buddy at Laguna last night, and we > had the same graphics settings. With my P166, I could see the > bridge as I rounded T6, but his P133 wouldn't draw it until he was > nearly under it...odd. > Cheers! > Marc

A good simulator has a long life-time. Look how long GP2 has been around. In a year or two the average gamers PC will be a P2 300 mhz or better with Voodoo 2 just around the corner giving 3 times the performance of current Voodoo 1 boards, this sim will run great. Software developers have to plan for the future. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply, remove the _nospam from my email address

Actually, I just installed on my son's P100 which has a generic onboard 1meg S3 so of course had to run without hardware accel. Well guess what, the drive model actually had a better feel so once again, I have to attribute my feelings to the "sub-par" performance of the rendering of the "eye-candy" thru direct 3d when running on my P166MMX w/ Pure 3d Voodoo. I know, I can also turn off all the "jazz" and get a more acceptable framerate, ect... but can't hardly justify the expense in upgrading to a "Rendition & Voodoo" supported system when I'm in turn having to give up all the goodies I paid to achieve. Personally, I'm after both "graphics" and "physics" and I'm afraid the current CPR I have previewed has a poor mix of these features for my enjoyment. Now I have not totally ruled out this title but will certainly wait until I weigh all feedback well after the final release. I guess with all the "hype" surrounding CPR and my woes, just having a hard time finding the positives. Actually I do remember the N2 demo which gave me a much more positive outlook towards the release. No, actually I think they would have to go way further with this to correctly model the "physics" and reaction variables as to actually provide some sort of force-feedback gizmo to rotate my monitor and chair. Sorry, but the implementation of this sort of thing on a flat screen is just a bit too difficult to adjust to properly for myself anyhow. I have a T2 which has been extremely more reasonable to setup in many other sims such as N1, N2, ICR2, GP2, Ubisoft's F1 Demo, MTM, Soda Demo. I have farted around for over an hour of switching back n forth to the setup in CPR and playing with the lock and sensitivity settings with no success yet. I even re-calibrated several times with the "Thrustmaster" Control Panel Utility thinking my wheel was whack. Finally resorted to MTM and N2-under W95 just to verify my T2 was still working properly. I can't really put my finger on it yet. All I know is graphically speaking for sure, I get much more of an experience in UBI F1 than I do from CPR. Both being demo release of course. Can't really compare the physic's and setups too much since I'm having such a hard time with CPR-Framerate dipping issues, ect... & UBI F1 Demo is in the french language thus making it difficult to even figure out what setup or garage work is available. Like I said, If I turn off most of the "goodies" in the graphic's options, I can actually achieve the 25fps as an average, however, big dips to around 20 and lower at different points on the track which as we know is a BIG handicap for the simracer. Actually I just bought JFIII after reading all the positive posts in several newsgroups over the past weekend and I'll tell you what sold me this title. The remarkable support offered by "Mission Studios" in working out an official 3dfx port along with the fact that I was in the market for a decent voodoo supported flightsim which provided both stunning graphics and decent playability which this title surely does do. Have you downloaded and tried the latest 3dfx patch for JFIII released by "Mission Studios"? Will consider after monitoring this newsgroup after the release. With all the "hype" I was just ready to drive 50+ miles to be one of the first to grab up CPR like I did with N2. Thank the Lord for demos ;). Yes, but my 3dfx Pure 3d "Voodoo" is a very graphical card!! True Thanks Julian for your input. I take no offence to anything and we are all after one thing here: A supreme, topnotch, state of the art, bugfree racing sim. I am just concerned. Ron L. (Please remove the extra letter(s) to respond) Home of the SSC http://www3.pgh.net/~lazer/ For Nascar2 & Winston Cup Fans!

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> >>I just completed removing and deleting this game. What a joke. > Why is that???? > >>The track looked like brown dirt. > Dirt?? Hmm.. not on my screen. You need to check the "GAMMA" settings on your > monitor and video card drivers. > >>There was stuttering/pausing at several places. This is with > >>hardware (3DFX) acceleration. > Hmm. I am running 3dfX. The first time I ran it "paused", after a "relaunch" of > the game, the pause disappeared. > >>I did not like how the scenery was being rendered as I drove along. > >>The track scenery should be STATIC! > Why?? Go in your car and look around Greg. Everything has it own perspectives to > your eyes. > >>Very bad z-buffering. > Not that bad. Remember, it's just a "demo". The "final" is not even ready. Keep > an "open mind". > >>It looked as bad as ICR1 does now. I could not make out where the > >>curves were. Very poor situational awareness. > Hmm.. Something does not sound like it to your liking. It's obivious. Have you > played with the "+ and -" keys??? > >>IMHO ICR2, Nascar2 & GP2 are far superior in graphics. > Err.. The ICR2 3d version is beautiful. N2 is okay. GP2 is about a year behind > in graphics. > >>Yuck the graphics are just wretched. I am used to high quality graphics > >>like Jetfighter3 and Flying Corps for 3DFX accelerated games. > Err.. JFIII?? Are you nuts?? It's "pixelated". Try EF2k 2.0. Much better > graphics. > BTW, I have JFIII.. so I know what I am talking about..; ) > >Well after playing around with many options in the graphics setup, > >ect... and attempting to actually complete some clean laps the way I > >am used to driving a sim, while some may argue that the driving model > >is actually more realistic, I do not see a future for CPR in my > >collection for the exact above reasons posted by Greg. > Let's see is it because it uses "four wheels" instead of "two wheels" in the > physics???? > Come on, you are shooting down something that is not in the "final" stages. > Remember N2 demo???? > Very hard to > >drive IMHO even with the "head thingy" shutoff - under realism... > I love this feature. Let me ask you this, in real life, when you take a turn, > does your head stay straight while approaching the apex??? > >Would be well into a turn (well actually in the sand) before I could > >even react. > That's because it the "head panning" goes in relation to how much you "turn" > your wheel. Sounds like you had the steering all the way to lock position. > Not impressed by the "graphics engine". Although in a way > >it looks very detailed, somehow it seems very arcade probably due to > >the rendering method. > Arcade?? Please explain more on the rendering method. It seems to render the > same as UBI F1, it just the perspective up above is narrower.. think about it, > Ron.. > I am also very letdown by the framerate > >performance. I know my system isn't "topnotch" but my P166MMX, 32meg > >EDO, Intergraph Intense 3d, Canopus Pure 3d -3dfx... runs just so many > >titles to my extreme satisfaction such as GLQuake, ICR2, N2, > >NHL98(well the graphics anyhow ;)), > Framerate problem?? What is your count?? Marc of SRN says his is around 25fps I > recall.. > Ubisoft's French F1 demo, > >JFIII(Now this is my idea of superb graphics & rendering), and the > >list goes on, that my personal problem with Microsoft's attempt at > >offering me this PCR is simple. > Ron, again, JFIII is "pixelated." Compare this flight simulator to EF2k. CPR > isn't pixelated from what I see.. Well, wait a minute.. I recall the sand > kicking up.. NO big deal.. > I refuse to spend mega-bucks to > >upgrade my MB, CPU, ect... or whatever it takes to actually play PCR > >at an acceptable framerate when so many other titles are still prime > >for my setup and run so well. I don't understand with the 3dfx and > >Glide being such a hit and success that this title is stuck in the > >subpar "Direct 3d" only support environment. Actually I do get a much > >more acceptable performance from MTM than CPR although that is > >strictly arcade IMHO. > Hashing a demo, though the final is not even out. I would wait to see what the > final will really consist of. > I am only able to attain around 25 fps average > >in CPR with Hardware Accel on, and just about all other options turned > >low or off. That would even be so so but I also experience dips to 20 > >fps and below. Very unacceptable for this type of racing sim. > Hmm.. This a very graphical intense sim!! > >I'm actually looking forward to Ubisoft's F1. Now there's a demo that > >actually gave me a much more refreshing feeling and hope for the final > >release! > >Ron L. > Maybe so, yet, there has'nt been much word on it. > take care > Julian Data

Hey Julian, I have always thought the IVGA was pile of rubbish but this takes the cake. Are you on the MS payroll or what? Did someone make you the official defender of Microsoft. I think they are big enough to handle that themselves, so where do you gain from this inane drivel in their defense. Jeez, I can't believe you are talking about the same CPR demo that I have seen. It's not just the poor D3D graphics engine, the feel and many other things are all screwed up. There is no way they can fix all this before the release date. This stuff will take major rewrites to correct. This may eventually become an okay racing "game", but I don't think it will ever be a simulation. For example: the rear wheels don't spin in a realistic way in first gear with traction control off, the car moves when revved in neutral, the car moves by itself, even uphill, with no accelerator application, and why can't I turn into the corkscrew at Laguna Seca or bang wheels with AI cars?, what's with the car driving itself on the pace lap?, ok that's enough, I don't even want talk about the frame rate. -- please remove "spammenot" from the email address to reply

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> >>Err.. JFIII?? Are you nuts?? It's "pixelated". Try EF2k 2.0. Much better > >>graphics. > >>BTW, I have JFIII.. so I know what I am talking about..; ) > >With the latest 'Platinum' 3dfx patch? If you think that is ugly I'm > >sorry but I'll have to take your asthetic judgements with a grain of > >salt. JF3 is one of the most gorgeous, fastest computer games ever > >with the latext patch. > Yes. I have the patch.. Plain and simple. Pixelated.. Try ef2k.. (EF2000 2.0)

Jetfighter3 pixilated? Hahaha. Phew! Hey, is it more or less pixilated than CPR? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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>>> >>Err.. JFIII?? Are you nuts?? It's "pixelated". Try EF2k 2.0. Much better >>> >>graphics. >>> >>BTW, I have JFIII.. so I know what I am talking about..; ) >>> >With the latest 'Platinum' 3dfx patch? If you think that is ugly I'm >>> >sorry but I'll have to take your asthetic judgements with a grain of >>> >salt. JF3 is one of the most gorgeous, fastest computer games ever >>> >with the latext patch. >>> Yes. I have the patch.. Plain and simple. Pixelated.. Try ef2k.. (EF2000 2.0) >>Jetfighter3 pixilated? Hahaha. Phew! >It is pixelated and comparing to CPR.. the Graphics are better. Heck the***pit >is better in CPR than JFIII. Compare the skies, then compare the land.. >Use the "Function" keys to see externals views on JFIII.. It's pixelated. >I will sand by my "word".... "pixelated".. >>Hey, is it more or less pixilated than CPR? >More.. Look at the terrain and in the ski. Look at the***pit. Look at the >details of the "other" aircraft.. >Sheesh >EF2K or iF22 blows JFIII away graphically>

Before you embarrass yourself further, hit CTRL-B to turn on bilinear filtering on JF3. No more pixels.

>Hey, is it more or less pixilated than CPR? LOL! Compared to JF3, the CPR screen is just one, big, ugly pixel! One of the best 3d accell games vs. one of the worst (which really shouldn't be surprising to people, since the CPR gfx engine evolved from MTM, which was both the ugliest and the slowest 3dfx game I've ever played). Joe

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> >I agree with everyone else..Another great Microsoft disaster. > >I have a Presario 8702 and with this game it makes my pc look like a Commodore > > 64...First of all it wont play the sound correct, which makes no sense since I > > have FS98 and it runs perfect...You cant judge the cars from a distance, the > > track is dirt, and with a Pentium 166, 24MB ram, 6mb video ram, I can even run > > this thing at minimum viewings...Oneonly has to HOPE that they fix all these > > problems before the final version arrives in the stores... > >Jeff in Ohio > A good simulator has a long life-time. Look how long GP2 has been > around. In a year or two the average gamers PC will be a P2 300 mhz > or better with Voodoo 2 just around the corner giving 3 times the > performance of current Voodoo 1 boards, this sim will run great. > Software developers have to plan for the future.

That's what made me angry about GP2!! A year ago I had to reduce the graphics so much that it looked like GP1 in SVGA. Still on my new P200 it doesn't give me a satisfactory frame rate. What are they doing in CART, fourier analysis? A P200, 32MB, Monster 3D should give me more than 20 fps with most options on, but it doesn't! l8er ronny -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Wow. I just do not know what to think. I guess I would stay away from the mushrooms. Go right ahead, if you say so it is OK with me. But you are wrong. Wow... -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

I wish I could say that. You're probably right -- its driver problems, but there's no relief in sight as the most recent drivers from www.diamondmm.com don't fix the problems. Is there any way you guys on the CART team can look at the v2100 and let me know whether or not you see draw-in problems like I'm experiencing? If you REALLY want to see it dramatically, turn on the sky textures. It leaves a rectangular hunk at the top of the bridges undrawn and you see the sky through it! if you figure out what's going on, please tell Diamond so they can update their drivers. Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

>>This is almost certainly driver problems, either with Stealth or Rendition. >>Please check their web site for faster drivers if you are experiencing this. >>John (CART Team) >I wish I could say that. You're probably right -- its driver problems, Yeah, CPR has driver-related performance problems all right - it's called D3D. ;-) Joe

As a device driver writer for several years (OS/2 and Windows NT), the device driver is a trusted part of the operating system. I help third party companies with problems they are having writing their device drivers. When company XYZ writes a bad device driver that is slow or crashes the system, who do the customers blame --> Microsoft. That's why there is a big move here to help third party companies with their device drivers. -Paul > Typical MS answer. :) > Sorry folks......but it is just...........so........well......typical. > Ralph Williams > > This is almost certainly driver problems, either with Stealth or Rendition. > > Please check their web site for faster drivers if you are experiencing this. > > John (CART Team)

Is this during a race, or alone during practice? I get over 25fps during practice with my P5-166/3dfx. Of course during a full race with 20+ cars, I'll bet performance will be horrid. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > l8er > ronny > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, > ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

hahahhaha....oh my god I cant believe anyone would say that.... JF3 absolutly rocks graphically and absolutely blows EF away. PAPA DOC

Ya I am not sure what to do with JD :-) I am sure to not follow his flightsim reviews/advice. hehe. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.