A friend a Thrustmaster has informed me they will have a force feedback
driving will out by Christmas, under $300.
: > I'm investigating building a very high quality force-feedback steering
: > wheel system. The problem is, I have no idea how many people are willing
: > to fork over $500-$1000 for a quality unit.
Happ Controls sells the EXACT force-feedback wheel used in the Atari
arcade game Hard Drivin' for $450 ea (or $425 if 6 or more) with optional
control board available (no price on option).
This is wheel and motor only, mounted minimally, but completely, on a
bracket. You'd still need a casing for it. Also no pedals are available,
but if you are designing it anyway, you could use some real steel ones.
Additionally, they have a full-on, sit down, adjustable seat arcade
cabinet for $2000. It has EVERYTHING, except a force-feedback wheel; 25"
monitor, coin slots/door, adjustable seat, wheel, pedals, shifter,
power supply....just imagine Daytona Racing, minus the actual game boards.
Add your own PC, with output to the monitor and you could run any racing
game (but the shifter is only 2 speed high/low; although they do have 4
speed shifters avaliable).
Happ Controls is 1-888-BUY-HAPP (1-888-289-4277) and is located in the
Chicago area (Elk Grove, IL).
I do not work for Happ Controls, but thought somebody might be interested
since I've seen posts saying they'd spent $1200 for a wheel/pedal combo.
Geez, just $800 more for adjustable seat AND 25" monitor. That's a DEAL!!
It even has a backlit marquee (sp?).
--
-------------------------------------
Unfortunately, I'm fresh out of ISA slots.
You would have to make it a switching voltage if you want to get foreign
sales. No problem for me if it requires AC.
Better ask the software mfg :-) Without their support your hosed.
That is a BIG difference. Not sure what you mean by higher quality for
double the price? That NOT how we do things in industrial manufacturing.
Higher prices simply provide more bells and whistles.
$300 - $400 tops for me for FF.
see above
I don't know how ECCI and TSW are, but PLEASE get rid of the springs
ala T2. Personally, I would like to see rack and pinion. It stays tight and
will not wear out. A good set of large pedals. I have to race barefoot with
the T2 because they are too small. Also design them so they don't tip over.
Pay attention to the clamping mechanism.
All I can think of now. Haven't finished my coffee <G>
Harry
None for me, but I suspect it will be. Most systems run three ISA and
three or four PCI. Given that one ISA slot will be soundcard and one
modem, that leaves only one. Some will have network card, others will
have game card or ???? I use mine for an ACM card (which I'd no longer
need) but flight sim types may find that a problem. Better to use the
joystick port if possible, but if ISA gives better functionality I'd
go for it. Heck the whole of my system is designed around sims and
Quake so why worry about anything else? :)
Lots - I don't have one! 220-240 is okay, and that will be the
requirements for most of Europe.
Chicken and egg, cart and horse, software and hardware. I don't mind
that it won't work with normal racing games, but only if there _is_
support for it. I have a Rendition card solely for N2 and ICR2 and a
_good_ force-feedback wheel would be great even if it was only
supported by the various Papyrus series.
It depends how much the returns diminish as cost goes higher and how
the competition stacks up. If it sold at $1,000 it would need to have
the same quality as the equivalent offerings from ECCI, TSW,
Thrustmaster etc (taking into account the FF options). If as you say
the cost was justified by quality then I personally have no problem
with it - I'd always rather pay for quality provided that it is value
for money.
It depends how the FF is implemented. I don't care if the wheel
"twitches" when I whack the wall, but I do want to feel the steering
communicate roadholding, brakes locking, wheelspin (FWD), bumps in the
track, clipping kerbs, increasing engine revs, running over cats,
whatever affects the handling of the car. If it has a real effect on
the amount of information you get from the sim and affects the way you
drive the car then I'd certainly go for it. Just twitches when you hit
something/are hit isn't enough - I'd expect them too, but they alone
are not woth $300.
Must have
- First class build quality (esp. considering FF wear and tear)
- Independent axes for throttle, brake, steering
- Paddle gear shift (F1 style)
- Good quality wheel (suede, F1 "D" shape for me!)
- Optical pots, very reliable electrical pots, or very easily changed
pots. It's a pain desoldering and replacing mine. Once every year
isn't bad, but it is time-consuming.
- Good looks. GP500/F1-sim is a very good looking wheel, unfortunately
let down by the ergonomics.
- Reliable operation (centres to same point every time, smooth all the
way through the movement, increasing resistance to movement at end of
throw should be linear in introduction and not excessive etc).
- Good clamping system to allow for firm holding of a variety of
surfaces and thicknesses.
Nice to have
- Modularity (can add-on separate 4 speed shifter to sit by your knee,
clutch pedal, perhaps even an LED display unit such as is installed in
most modern saloon racers - that would obviate the need for dials on
screen). Even the ability to easily buy a new wheel (just the wheel)
and clip it on easily would be nice.
- Option to switch FF off and work as a normal wheel - maybe even a
separate plug for this.
- Simple stuff, give it a flat top so you can sit your keyboard on top
and keys are within easy reach.
- Option buttons supported by software for pit-stop signal, pit-speed
limiter, perhaps chat message select and send for on-line racing (one
button selects messages, other button sends or some such).
Shouldn't have
- Silly gimmicks that push up the price. Examples are the "LED gear
change light" of the F1-Sim or "McLaren designed pedals" of the same
unit.
There's much more I could add, so give me a shout if you would like
more suggestions. I'm aware that the above would probably retail for
the cost of a small family hatchback, but you did ask!
Cheers!
John
>I'm investigating building a very high quality force-feedback steering
>wheel system. The problem is, I have no idea how many people are willing
>to fork over $500-$1000 for a quality unit.
>Questions for those who would:
>1. How much of a drawback is it if it requires its own ISA slot?
These will soon be extinct or at least so few of them in the computer
that you will get problem adding one for the wheel.
I'm all out of ISA slots.
Well, you won't be able to sell it all over the world. We have 240V
here in Sweden. I think they have that in most of Europe, except
Great Britain of course :-) Anyway, the plugs don't fit so this
makes it so much more trouble to sell.
I guess wouldn't be a big problem unless the software makers didn't
care about it.
I'm not willing to pay that. For me the upper limit is around USD300 but
I just wanted to give my opinion on the questions above.
Without it I wouldn't exchange my TM GP1.
If pedals: _realistic_ pedals, like those in a car. The TM T2 pedals
are very awkward IMHO.
I have found that gear change buttons on the wheel is very nice.
/Michael
