F1'97 first impressions and qualify problems

Hello there, This is pretty long, but worth reading so brace yourselves. Excellent post. I've been playing Formula 1 '97 since Wednesday 24th and have experienced the problems you've faced, and more. Karlheinz Agsteiner <[email hidden]> wrote in article <60gr3d$[email hidden]>... > Oh well, Im just playing F1'97 for two hours new and already having > problems... But maybe I should first give you my first impressions of > the game (only played championship with the NegCon, not tried another > controller, the arcade/split screen modes) first. I'm playing using the standard Sony SCPH-1080 Controller. Finished doing Round 2 of a Full Race Expert Championship yesterday. Currently leading the Championship with two Grand Prix wins with Jean Alesi in the Benetton Renault, but really struggling at Round 3 Argentina being 2 seconds off the pace, doing high 1.16.00's, where the pole time is in the high 1.14.00's. Willing to swap Car Set Ups for 1.25.00's at Australia, and 1.10.00's in Brazil, for any help at Argentina. > The game's presentation is ok. Graphics and sound have been updated > but the difference to the old F1 is nowhere as noticeable as in > eg. Wipeout vs. Wipeout 2097 or Ridge Racer Revolution vs. Rage > Racer. Agreed. The Formula 1 '97 graphics have been refined, and are nowhere near the new look of Wipeout 2097 or Rage Racer. I like the new opening sequence, as well as the Grand Prix tunes Hatzenbects Boden, and Rascasse. The glowing dics brakes is a very nice touch. > The blue lines problem has been reduced (not fixed) and the > higher resolution makes the image a bit cleaner. The framerate is > always perfect because of the more intelligent displaying algorithm. > However now sometimes a part of a distant wall is missing because this > algorithm decided that this part isn't that important. My problem though is that compared to the original there is even more slowdown when racing, even when alone, and missing graphics in the distance when racing to line up your car for the upcoming corner. I've found this to be particularly bad at Interalgos, Brazil, where the first corner and the surrounding features are blued out. Doesn't affect Australia or Argentina though. The slowdown though seems worse than Link Mode racing with the original, especially in traffic. > You'll be > pleased to hear that there's a real cockpit view now (even with > dirt and these strange "remove a layer to clean" helmets). The real cockpit view is a nice feature, but due to the limited resolution and viewing range I find it almost impossible to race competitively for a complete lap. If they hadn't dropped the excellent Repaly Mode of the original, I would have liked to view my races from this viewpoint. > Sound has > supposedly been improved, too but I didn't notice much of a difference. Soundwise the cars now have a distinctively different tone engine to engine, even though the Mugen Honda and Peugeot engine's sound suspiciously similar. I don't like the fact that the sound of your chosen car IMO is too low level, inparticular when you're racing with others, you can barely hear your own engine. Also unlike the first game, when you're on your own you can't hear the other cars around the circuit. I loved how on the earlier game you would hear them first before you see them, this includes on certain tracks where the layout would bend back on to itself and you could hear the cars on those parts of the circuit. The new game seems to lack the sound scale of Formula 1 car sounds that the earlier version tried to replicate, and is actually there in real life. > The only major update there has been the commentary: The guys now tell > you a lot of background stories (eg. that Williams and Jordan have > redesigned their cars) and actually _remember_ what they said. For > example: I notice Murray Walker updates a lot less than the original, which might irritate some people, but when you're racing in the lead, and there no commentator talking to you, it gets pretty lonely. Even if like the original all he's doing is updating the running order lap after alap, it beats nothing like in Formula 1 '97. Updates on battles throughout the field to pass time would be nice.

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> * I drive my car into the grass and leave the game alone > * announcer: "he drove right into the grass" > * 30 seconds later: "he seems to have stalled his engine" > * another few seconds later: "you could expect that - he's driven into > the grass after all" > While the first two phrases are pretty obivous, the third one > really impressed me.

Interesting that, I haven't heard that one. > All in all IMHO you shouldn't get F1'97 if you just want the same > game with improved graphics/sound - there's not that much of > a difference to the already excellent F1. There IMO is enough detail difference for Grand Prix Mode racers to get the game. It's just disappointing that Bizarre Creations and Psygnosis didn't not take this oppportunity to to develop, maximsie, and refine many areas of the classic Formula 1 game, leaving for many of us IMO a game that comes up short and disappoints, and Bizarre Creations and Psygnosis giving us a reasonably OK sequel, not great, just OK and an opportunity missed.

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> The gameplay however has changed drastically. Frankly, I don't know > where to begin - everything that players complained about in F1 > has been fixed, a lot of other things have been added: > * All the 1997 tracks and drivers (except one, see below) are there > in the same quality as before. So we can drive the last grand prixes > just when they are happening.

The addition of both Jerez in Spain, and Estoril in Portugal was an added bonus. I like the Melbourne, Australia layout. Disappointing though that the Lola Ford Formula 1 Team weren't included. Likewise it is frustrating to see that you can still Corner Hop/Cut at places like Italy, Germany, San Marino, etc just like in the first game, where's the sport in that?. > * There's a real complete flag system in there. Try driving the > wrong way and the race is over. Crash and you'll get a yellow > flag (I'll have to pull off a "Schumacher" this evening to see > if I can pass during yellow-flag phases without problems :) ). I've found the Flag system very inconsistent, and in a lot of ways frustrating when you get mauled from behind by a bcakmarker you're lapping for the third time, only to get flagged for it. Also no Yellow Flags when a car has spun, stalled, recovered from a spin, or slowed, and no Blue Flags to lapped traffic to get the hell out of the way, though it is challenging not having it. I have passed cars under a Yellow Falg situation and received no penalty, pity as I would've enjoyed the challenge of a stop go penalty in the pits. > * The weather changes during races and this affects your car's > performance beautifully (not as crude as in F1 where you just > couldn't steer anymore). Yes, it's great. I love to see how long I can stay out on slicks on a wet track and take positions (I too can be Jean Alesi or Ayrton Senna). The game still suffers though from the AI being too slow when it's wet, I mean I won the Australian Grand Prix from Micheal Schumacher who was three laps down in second place. I know I'm good, but not three laps over second placed Michael Schumacher good. Has anyone figured out how to and/or when to use the Monsoon tyres? Evertime I go to use them my car won't gain enough speed to change into third gear, and the cornering performance is only a little better than slicks in the wet. I do like the lighting flashes, thunder roar, and raindrop sounds, very nice touches. > * The "starting lights" now behave correctly - the go read one > by one, when they're out again the race starts. Indeed they do, and how crisp they look too. Likewise the colours of the cars look vibrant, and very close to the real thing. > * If you lose a wing your car will have problems in turns, just > as I expected Yes, I'm quite suprised people claim to be faster without their wings with the first game. I could never do a 1.20.00 at Brazil in Formula 1, unless I had all my wings. Likewise the complaint about fuel not affecting performance, I could only achieve the above lap time with 23 percent or less fuel. > * you have all kind of weird car configuration options (actually > too much for my a bit arcady tastes :) ) including hard/soft > slicks, size of the brake thingies, front/rear downforce, ... > There's no adjustable gear ratio however (at least I haven't > seen any). The suspension setting makes a world of difference to your cars handling, and drivability. > * There's a great pit communication now - if it starts raining > they'll tell you that they've got the "wet tires" available and > that you should enter the pits. Yes, it's a good feature if a little loud compared to the rest of the audio mix. I love how he asks what happened there, when you make an absolute horror of a mistake like punting your teammate, or when you're about to have your engine misfire, and if you don't pit soon it'll blow. > * There's even a car performence statistics graphics that lets > you see everything you did in the last lap (gear, throttle, > speed, and so on) but I actually did find no use for it. A > comparison to the best lap would have been good. Yes, as it is right now on its own during practice and no comparison against fastest laps, or pole, it's pretty much window dreesing. Obviously a feature not fully exploited or implemented, but influenced by Grand Prix 2 and the real thing. > * other cars will actually be affected now if you crash into them > (huh huh :) ). I don't ever know what you mean (joke), yes indeedy they'll spin and/or go flying and pit for repairs. Wonder if they've programmed PAYBACK in to the AI? > And here's my big question: Am I just being stupid or is there > _no way_ at all to "accelerate the ... read more »

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> Hello there, > This is pretty long, but worth reading so brace yourselves. > Excellent post. > I've been playing Formula 1 '97 since Wednesday 24th and have experienced > the problems you've faced, and more. > > * The weather changes during races and this affects your car's > > performance beautifully (not as crude as in F1 where you just > > couldn't steer anymore). > Yes, it's great. > I love to see how long I can stay out on slicks on a wet track and take > positions (I too can be Jean Alesi or Ayrton Senna). > The game still suffers though from the AI being too slow when it's wet, I > mean I won the Australian Grand Prix from Micheal Schumacher who was three > laps down in second place. > I know I'm good, but not three laps over second placed Michael Schumacher > good. > Has anyone figured out how to and/or when to use the Monsoon tyres? > Evertime I go to use them my car won't gain enough speed to change into > third gear, and the cornering performance is only a little better than > slicks in the wet.

Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets only to find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and re-pit? I know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. You can't, it's 2 player only. Did you ever sit through the whole 45 mins or so of replay? I certainly didn't. I don't think (m)any people used it so it went. Kev

Yep, I've had that problem too. Today I was trying to switch to monsoons, but everytime I pitted and selected them I soon realized I had slicks instead. The other day I managed to switch to monsoons without problems though. Weird, and particularly annoying :( Another annoying thing I found is that whenever I load up the game and my settings, the gear in the car setup is *always* set to automatic which is weird as I always drive using manual gears. -- Amiga F1 website |_|_|_M_|_\_,\__; |_| |_| & F1GP-Ed author |__/ http://www.nanunanu.org/~oliver/ http://www.nanunanu.org/~oliver/hof/ ==> Amiga F1GP Hall of Fame

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> > Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets only > > to find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and > > re-pit? I know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. > Yep, I've had that problem too. Today I was trying to switch to monsoons, > but everytime I pitted and selected them I soon realized I had slicks > instead. The other day I managed to switch to monsoons without problems > though. Weird, and particularly annoying :(

I had the same problem last night but when I choose the 'wets' there was no problem. But in earlier sessions I could have the monsoon whenever I wanted ! Aldo

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> > Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets only > > to find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and > > re-pit? I know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. > Yep, I've had that problem too. Today I was trying to switch to monsoons, > but everytime I pitted and selected them I soon realized I had slicks > instead. The other day I managed to switch to monsoons without problems > though. Weird, and particularly annoying :(

Yes, I've noticed this too. I noticed this most during qualifying only. I do remember that once I even set up for a 'rainy', not 'variable' race, asked to start with 'monsoon tyres' and still could only qualify with slicks. The race itself was alright. Then again, on another day, it started with monsoon tyres correctly. This seems very strange as the bug does not appear always to be present. The few times that I've had the weather change on me during the race I have had no problems. Can anyone shed any more light on this issue?

Hello Kev and all, > Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets only to > find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and re-pit? I > know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. How do you know they're slicks? Did you select wets before the tyre bar went blue in the pits?? Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling problems if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling and traction. And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very quick in the wet, but undriveable in the dry. Well what's the point? Duel Mode split screen racing, where's the e***ment in that? With Formula 1 we had the option to Link Mode Duel or a complete full field Grand Prix. This is one of many reasons why I rate Formula 1 '97 as being only half the game the original Formula 1 is. I doubt they'll sell over 1 million copies of Formula 1 '97, whereas the original Formula 1 sold over 1.7 million. Yes, I did watch the complete replays of the races I wanted to watch. They seemed to have a limit of 30 lap durations no matter how long my actual race was. My point of the lack of Replay Mode in Formula 1 '97, was that this underrated feature not only allowed the game to show off its amazing detail, but also the power in the PlayStation. Did you never try watching your performance from the car infront using the rearview from ground level, it's amazing and reveals the racer within. Watching Formula 1 '97 Demo itself using the same incar and circuit coverage camera views from the earlier Formula 1 game, and combined with the new improved resolution is frustrating, and would've been an excellent feature if included. Also the fact you had the choice as to whether you'd like a replay of your race, be it from any vantage point, is what I liked and I'm sure other PlayStation Racers enjoyed. Whereas with Formula 1 '97 you have no choice no matter how good your race was, how excellent your passing manoeuvre was, or how embarrassing , and also check out how the AI drivers tackle the circuit and passing. The other excellent feature missing is that of being able to swap cars hopping into the other competitors AI controlled machines which allows you to check out their racing lines, where they're quicker or slower, and what gears they use and how long they hold each gear. This feature is very important when trying to learn a circuit, and./or set up a car. High revvingly yours, Pasene R. Faifua. [link lost in import: /~stuartc/]

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> Hello Kev and all, > > Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets > only to > > find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and > re-pit? I > > know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. > How do you know they're slicks?

Just before I pull out of the pit it changes to the work SLICKS on the tyre selection and also the pit radio promtly says 'It's a bit slippy out there weve got wet tyres waiting for you' and the handling is impossible. yep I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all and you can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. I disagree. I think it is the game that the original should/could have been. Dynamic weather, pit radio, better crashes, better AI, flags etc. I don't think the AI of the original was THAT sophisticated as to have different cars driving in different styles. I take your point but I suspect that with the increased number of polygons and the higher resolution it's too much info for the playstation to remember. Much like the problem with the original where it couldnt do replays when an analogue controller was used. As for learning a circuit I guess most of us just drive round and round until you remember it. I've seen Melbourne on the TV for the last 2 (?) seasons and I didn't recognise it at all. Managed to get down to 1:28.6 now though :) I'm rather puzzled as to why F1 get's so much more grief than any other PSX game. Wipeout has massive pop up. No-one complains Wipeout has polygon break up. No-one complains Wipeout has little bugs/annoyances. No-one complains Why is F1 so different? I even saw one tosspot saying that the stickers disappeared on the tyres while you sat in the pits then reappeared when you drove off! WHAT? That doesn't ruin a game. It doesn't make it a huge bug. In fact I wouldn't call it a bug. Kev

Hello Kevin and those following this thread, > > How do you know they're slicks? > Just before I pull out of the pit it changes to the work SLICKS on the tyre > selection and also the pit radio promtly says 'It's a bit slippy out there > weve got wet tyres waiting for you' and the handling is impossible. Wow, that isn't normal. Well I should say doesn't happen with my copy of Formula 1 '97. Have you contacted Psygnosis <[link lost in import] about this? Man that is weird. I would contact Psygnosis' Tech Support <[link lost in import] about this. IMO this is not normal, and I reckon you can expect a new copy of the game if you're correct about the fault. Good luck with it. Definitely. But considering the number of dropped features from the original, plus the problems the new features have created and being released not fully bug free means it'll be as controversial in satisfying PlayStation racers as the original was. IMO the too many bugs in both games warrants delaying their release until they've gotten it all sorted out. I'll gladly become a Formula 1 game tester for them, even if I do live half way around the world from both Bizarre Creations and Psygnosis' offices. That may be so, but the fact that each car handled differently, as such accelerated differently and were powered theoretically by a different powerplant, meant for example that in the original the Ferrari had good top end power but poor low end torque, whereas the Renault powered Williams and Benettons had excellent power throughout the rev range. The Williams Renault's handling was superb. And you'll notice by viewing the game in***pit, that all the different engine/car combinations change gear at different speeds. This was the technique difference I was refering to that required a different style when cornering due to the different cars handling and engine power. Some of the cars would require a different gear through a particular corner, compared to the others. This alters your braking point, turn in line, momentum at the apex, and exit speed. My worry is that like the original game, this one suffers from being superb in places which we all love, and diabolical in others which we all know about through the Newsgroups.. Many areas of the new game are crude compared to the original, which to me says that it was rushed to meet its deadline. I suppose it means there'll be a sequel, if so lets hope at least it combines the best features of both games, inluding the Link Mode!! I always like to watch the AI drive around the circuit like in Formula 1, and the PC's Grand Prix 2 to take note of the racing lines, gears used , and gearchange point in the game. It gives me a reference point of the speeds required to win the game, and if my car set up is delivering throughout a lap.. 1.28.6 in which car and what mode. I've managed 1.24.840 at Melbourne, Australia with no corner cutting in Expert Mode Grand Prix using Jean Alesi's Benetton Renault. 1.23's are definitely possible. Currently I'm at round 3 of the Expert Mode Full Length Grand Prix Chanpionship, having won in Australia and Brazil, but in Argentina I'm struggling doing 1.16's when the pole time is in the low 1.14's. If you're quicker than me in Argentina, I'm willing to swap car set up's for either Brazil (1.10's) or Australia. I think the reason Formula 1 is so controversial is because it's only a few features and bugs less away from being pretty much perfect for those who don't race on their PC's. IMO Formula 1 showed how good a racing game can be, to not only play but also watch, and the amount of complaints is because it and it's sequel are of very high standard. And if you've raced Sega Saturn's F1 Challenge, you'll know what I mean. High revvingly yours, Pasene R. Faifua. [link lost in import: /~stuartc/]

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> > Hello Kev and all, > > > Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets > > only to > > > find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and > > re-pit? I > > > know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. > > How do you know they're slicks? > Just before I pull out of the pit it changes to the work SLICKS on the tyre > selection and also the pit radio promtly says 'It's a bit slippy out there > weve got wet tyres waiting for you' and the handling is impossible. > > Did you select wets before the tyre bar went blue in the pits?? > yep > > Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling problems > > if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling and > > traction. > > And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very quick in > > the wet, but undriveable in the dry. > I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all and you > can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. > > > > I have yet to figure out how to race split screen with the rest of the > > > > field, at the moment all I get is racing duel split screen. > > > You can't, it's 2 player only. > > Well what's the point? > > Duel Mode split screen racing, where's the e***ment in that? > > With Formula 1 we had the option to Link Mode Duel or a complete full field > > Grand Prix. > > This is one of many reasons why I rate Formula 1 '97 as being only half the > > game the original Formula 1 is. > > I doubt they'll sell over 1 million copies of Formula 1 '97, whereas the > > original Formula 1 sold over 1.7 million. > I disagree. I think it is the game that the original should/could have been. > Dynamic weather, pit radio, better crashes, better AI, flags etc. > > > > One of my favourite features of Formula 1 was the Replay Mode, where > > you > > > > could replay your race from any view, from any car, and relive your > > racing > > > > glories or embarrassments. > > > Did you ever sit through the whole 45 mins or so of replay? I certainly > > didn't. I > > > don't think (m)any people used it so it went. > > Yes, I did watch the complete replays of the races I wanted to watch. > > They seemed to have a limit of 30 lap durations no matter how long my > > actual race was. > > My point of the lack of Replay Mode in Formula 1 '97, was that this > > underrated feature not only allowed the game to show off its amazing > > detail, but also the power in the PlayStation. > > Did you never try watching your performance from the car infront using the > > rearview from ground level, it's amazing and reveals the racer within. > > Watching Formula 1 '97 Demo itself using the same incar and circuit > > coverage camera views from the earlier Formula 1 game, and combined with > > the new improved resolution is frustrating, and would've been an excellent > > feature if included. > > Also the fact you had the choice as to whether you'd like a replay of your > > race, be it from any vantage point, is what I liked and I'm sure other > > PlayStation Racers enjoyed. > > Whereas with Formula 1 '97 you have no choice no matter how good your race > > was, how excellent your passing manoeuvre was, or how embarrassing , and > > also check out how the AI drivers tackle the circuit and passing. > > The other excellent feature missing is that of being able to swap cars > > hopping into the other competitors AI controlled machines which allows you > > to check out their racing lines, where they're quicker or slower, and what > > gears they use and how long they hold each gear. > I don't think the AI of the original was THAT sophisticated as to have > different cars driving in different styles. > > This feature is very important when trying to learn a circuit, and./or set > > up a car. > I take your point but I suspect that with the increased number of polygons > and the higher resolution it's too much info for the playstation to remember. > Much like the problem with the original where it couldnt do replays when an > analogue controller was used. As for learning a circuit I guess most of us > just drive round and round until you remember it. I've seen Melbourne on the > TV for the last 2 (?) seasons and I didn't recognise it at all. Managed to > get down to 1:28.6 now though :) > I'm rather puzzled as to why F1 get's so much more grief than any other PSX > game. > Wipeout has massive pop up. No-one complains > Wipeout has polygon break up. No-one complains > Wipeout has little bugs/annoyances. No-one complains > Why is F1 so different? I even saw one tosspot saying that the stickers > disappeared on the tyres while you sat in the pits then reappeared when you > drove off! WHAT? That doesn't ruin a game. It doesn't make it a huge bug. In > fact I wouldn't call it a bug. > KevThe bug that ruined the first game for me was no cute little ladybug but

a big fat cicada! I'm referring to the slowdown problems when multiple cars took the turns. Has this problem been fixed in the new game?

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> > > Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets only > > > to find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and > > > re-pit? I know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. > > Yep, I've had that problem too. Today I was trying to switch to monsoons, > > but everytime I pitted and selected them I soon realized I had slicks > > instead. The other day I managed to switch to monsoons without problems > > though. Weird, and particularly annoying :( > Yes, I've noticed this too. I noticed this most during qualifying only. I > do remember that once I even set up for a 'rainy', not 'variable' race, > asked to start with 'monsoon tyres' and still could only qualify with > slicks. The race itself was alright. Then again, on another day, it started > with monsoon tyres correctly. This seems very strange as the bug does not > appear always to be present. > The few times that I've had the weather change on me during the race I have > had no problems. > Can anyone shed any more light on this issue?

Is it a digital/analogue thing? I had problems when using my digital sony pad but now I've sussed out the analogue one I don't seem to experience it anymore. Kev

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>> > Hello Kev and all, >> > > Has anyone else had problems (in variable weather) with selecting wets >> > only to >> > > find you they've put slicks on and you have to do a lap on slicks and >> > re-pit? I >> > > know you make your selection before it turns blue btw. >> > How do you know they're slicks? >> Just before I pull out of the pit it changes to the work SLICKS on the tyre >> selection and also the pit radio promtly says 'It's a bit slippy out there >> weve got wet tyres waiting for you' and the handling is impossible. >> > Did you select wets before the tyre bar went blue in the pits?? >> yep >> > Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling problems >> > if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling and >> > traction. >> > And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very quick in >> > the wet, but undriveable in the dry. >> I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all and you >> can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. >> > > > I have yet to figure out how to race split screen with the rest of the >> > > > field, at the moment all I get is racing duel split screen. >> > > You can't, it's 2 player only. >> > Well what's the point? >> > Duel Mode split screen racing, where's the e***ment in that? >> > With Formula 1 we had the option to Link Mode Duel or a complete full field >> > Grand Prix. >> > This is one of many reasons why I rate Formula 1 '97 as being only half the >> > game the original Formula 1 is. >> > I doubt they'll sell over 1 million copies of Formula 1 '97, whereas the >> > original Formula 1 sold over 1.7 million. >> I disagree. I think it is the game that the original should/could have been. >> Dynamic weather, pit radio, better crashes, better AI, flags etc. >> > > > One of my favourite features of Formula 1 was the Replay Mode, where >> > you >> > > > could replay your race from any view, from any car, and relive your >> > racing >> > > > glories or embarrassments. >> > > Did you ever sit through the whole 45 mins or so of replay? I certainly >> > didn't. I >> > > don't think (m)any people used it so it went. >> > Yes, I did watch the complete replays of the races I wanted to watch. >> > They seemed to have a limit of 30 lap durations no matter how long my >> > actual race was. >> > My point of the lack of Replay Mode in Formula 1 '97, was that this >> > underrated feature not only allowed the game to show off its amazing >> > detail, but also the power in the PlayStation. >> > Did you never try watching your performance from the car infront using the >> > rearview from ground level, it's amazing and reveals the racer within. >> > Watching Formula 1 '97 Demo itself using the same incar and circuit >> > coverage camera views from the earlier Formula 1 game, and combined with >> > the new improved resolution is frustrating, and would've been an excellent >> > feature if included. >> > Also the fact you had the choice as to whether you'd like a replay of your >> > race, be it from any vantage point, is what I liked and I'm sure other >> > PlayStation Racers enjoyed. >> > Whereas with Formula 1 '97 you have no choice no matter how good your race >> > was, how excellent your passing manoeuvre was, or how embarrassing , and >> > also check out how the AI drivers tackle the circuit and passing. >> > The other excellent feature missing is that of being able to swap cars >> > hopping into the other competitors AI controlled machines which allows you >> > to check out their racing lines, where they're quicker or slower, and what >> > gears they use and how long they hold each gear. >> I don't think the AI of the original was THAT sophisticated as to have >> different cars driving in different styles. >> > This feature is very important when trying to learn a circuit, and./or set >> > up a car. >> I take your point but I suspect that with the increased number of polygons >> and the higher resolution it's too much info for the playstation to remember. >> Much like the problem with the original where it couldnt do replays when an >> analogue controller was used. As for learning a circuit I guess most of us >> just drive round and round until you remember it. I've seen Melbourne on the >> TV for the last 2 (?) seasons and I didn't recognise it at all. Managed to >> get down to 1:28.6 now though :) >> I'm rather puzzled as to why F1 get's so much more grief than any other PSX >> game. >> Wipeout has massive pop up. No-one complains >> Wipeout has polygon break up. No-one complains >> Wipeout has little bugs/annoyances. No-one complains >> Why is F1 so different? I even saw one tosspot saying that the stickers >> disappeared on the tyres while you sat in the pits then reappeared when you >> drove off! WHAT? That doesn't ruin a game. It doesn't make it a huge bug. In >> fact I wouldn't call it a bug. >> KevThe bug that ruined the first game for me was no cute little ladybug but >a big fat cicada! I'm referring to the slowdown problems when multiple >cars took the turns. Has this problem been fixed in the new game?

No ... in fact if you ask me the slowdown is *worse*. I was really looking forward to using the***pit view but cannot because of the slowdown --- this usually happens when there are a lot of cars on the track, which makes sense because I've heard that each car is composed of 1200 polys, whereas F1's cars used 700. The only viewpoint that doesn't seem to be affected by slowdown in Race mode is the nosecone view, which [thank God!] just happens to be my favourite viewpoint. Why oh why did Bizarre increase the screen resolution / polys. per car at the expense of the framerate? I would rather have 25-30 fps *all* the time in low resolution rather than wildly fluctuating fps in high resolution ... the higher res. does give the graphics a clearer, crisper feel though.

Is this game that bad?!?!? You want SOFT for mechanical grip, especially in the wet. Hard, stiff settings (stiff springs, lots of packers, low ride height) are for smooth, fast tracks like Monza, where ride height determines most of the car's downforce and thus, cornering speed. If the car actually handles better with a stiff setup in the wet, this game (it's certainly nowhere a sim if this is the case!) is totally screwed up. Yikes, Psygnosis is really looking foolish on this one.....

Hello there, > > > Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling problems > > > if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling and > > > traction. > > > And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very quick in > > > the wet, but undriveable in the dry. > > I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all and you

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> > can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. > Is this game that bad?!?!? You want SOFT for mechanical grip, > especially in the wet. Hard, stiff settings (stiff springs, lots of > packers, low ride height) are for smooth, fast tracks like Monza, > where ride height determines most of the car's downforce and thus, > cornering speed. If the car actually handles better with a stiff setup > in the wet, this game (it's certainly nowhere a sim if this is the > case!) is totally screwed up.

Yes, unfortunately some of the car set up values in Formula 1 '97 are relaitve to a different world, and they ain't Planet Earth. Your descriptions for a car including Formula 1 car set up characteristcs are correct, but don't necessarily give the best handling, performance, and ultimately fastest lap times in Formula 1 '97. And I'm sure Psygnosis and Bizarre Creations will point out that in no way is it a simulation of the actual sport, IMO the term 'arcade simulation' comes to mind, just liek they did with Formula 1. While both Formula 1 and Formula 1 '97 feature oddball car characteristics, it still doesn't stop all of us enjoying what an immensly playable game it is. You must have missed their answers to such questions, check out Psygnosis' Developer Q & A with Bizarre Creations <http://racing.psygnosis.com/f197/devqa/index.html>, I'm sure it'll answer a lot of your queries. HIgh revvingly yours, Pasene R. Faifua. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~stuartc/

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> >>> > Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling problems > >>> > if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling and > >>> > traction. > >>> > And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very quick in > >>> > the wet, but undriveable in the dry. > >>> I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all and you > >>> can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. > Is this game that bad?!?!? You want SOFT for mechanical grip, > especially in the wet. Hard, stiff settings (stiff springs, lots of > packers, low ride height) are for smooth, fast tracks like Monza, > where ride height determines most of the car's downforce and thus,

Hahaha!!! This game is worse than that. You have one dorky slider bar for 'downforce'. That is about the extent of the tweaking. You start your practices & qualifying on the track not the pit. So you MUST do a lap to be able to go in the pits and do whatever minimal tweaking is allowed. This is in no way a simulation. It is an arcade GAME. If you select ARCADE mode for easier driving, you get 3 laps no more. I happen to like the arcade screen which has your RPM & gear & speed. The more realistic mode has no tach. No mirrors... No nothing. You can stick you car 2 feet up the rear of another car and have no damage (with the damage turned ON). The cherry on the cake is the fact that all of your settings for joystick & graphics & race length ect must be redone every time you start the game. It always defaults to digital joystick and I have to change it to analog every time. I'll be taking this turkey back & I bought it at CompUSA. Totally. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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> > >>> > Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling problems > > >>> > if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling and > > >>> > traction. > > >>> > And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very quick in > > >>> > the wet, but undriveable in the dry. > > >>> I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all and you > > >>> can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. > > Is this game that bad?!?!? You want SOFT for mechanical grip, > > especially in the wet. Hard, stiff settings (stiff springs, lots of > > packers, low ride height) are for smooth, fast tracks like Monza, > > where ride height determines most of the car's downforce and thus, > Hahaha!!! This game is worse than that. You have one dorky slider > bar for 'downforce'. That is about the extent of the tweaking. You start > your practices & qualifying on the track not the pit. So you MUST do > a lap to be able to go in the pits and do whatever minimal tweaking > is allowed. This is in no way a simulation. It is an arcade GAME. > If you select ARCADE mode for easier driving, you get 3 laps no more. > I happen to like the arcade screen which has your RPM & gear & > speed. The more realistic mode has no tach. No mirrors... No > nothing. You can stick you car 2 feet up the rear of another car > and have no damage (with the damage turned ON). > The cherry on the cake is the fact that all of your settings > for joystick & graphics & race length ect must be redone > every time you start the game. It always defaults to digital > joystick and I have to change it to analog every time. > I'll be taking this turkey back & I bought it at CompUSA.

Except, of course, that I think you're talking about F1 and we're all talking about F1 '97 which is the sequel which is much much better :) Kev

If your complaint is a lack of realism in the set up screens, what racer would you recommend for the Playstation? I can't think of anything superior in this respect... I must say it amazes me that a game like Formula 1 '97 is getting such a going over for what are minor deficencies when half the world is playing ***like Rage Racer and V Rally. Formula 1 '97 has its faults but lets keep things in perspective. Tom

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> Hahaha!!! This game is worse than that. You have one dorky slider > bar for 'downforce'. That is about the extent of the tweaking. You start > your practices & qualifying on the track not the pit. So you MUST do > a lap to be able to go in the pits and do whatever minimal tweaking > is allowed. This is in no way a simulation. It is an arcade GAME. > If you select ARCADE mode for easier driving, you get 3 laps no more. > I happen to like the arcade screen which has your RPM & gear & > speed. The more realistic mode has no tach. No mirrors... No > nothing. You can stick you car 2 feet up the rear of another car > and have no damage (with the damage turned ON). > The cherry on the cake is the fact that all of your settings > for joystick & graphics & race length ect must be redone > every time you start the game. It always defaults to digital > joystick and I have to change it to analog every time. > I'll be taking this turkey back & I bought it at CompUSA.

Hello Kevin and those following this thread, > > How do you know they're slicks? > Just before I pull out of the pit it changes to the work SLICKS on the tyre > selection and also the pit radio promtly says 'It's a bit slippy out there > weve got wet tyres waiting for you' and the handling is impossible. I've had this problem as well, exactly as described above, don't know why thought. Also, has anyone seen a chequered flag yet?? I thought it was going to be in this game? Cheers Paul

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> Hello there, > > > > Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling > problems > > > > if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling > and > > > > traction. > > > > And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very > quick in > > > > the wet, but undriveable in the dry. > > > I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all > and you > > > can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. > > Is this game that bad?!?!? You want SOFT for mechanical grip, > > especially in the wet. Hard, stiff settings (stiff springs, lots of > > packers, low ride height) are for smooth, fast tracks like Monza, > > where ride height determines most of the car's downforce and thus, > > cornering speed. If the car actually handles better with a stiff setup > > in the wet, this game (it's certainly nowhere a sim if this is the > > case!) is totally screwed up. > Yes, unfortunately some of the car set up values in Formula 1 '97 are > relaitve to a different world, and they ain't Planet Earth. > Your descriptions for a car including Formula 1 car set up characteristcs > are correct, but don't necessarily give the best handling, performance, and > ultimately fastest lap times in Formula 1 '97. > And I'm sure Psygnosis and Bizarre Creations will point out that in no way > is it a simulation of the actual sport, IMO the term 'arcade simulation' > comes to mind, just liek they did with Formula 1. > While both Formula 1 and Formula 1 '97 feature oddball car characteristics, > it still doesn't stop all of us enjoying what an immensly playable game it > is. > > Yikes, Psygnosis is really looking foolish on this one..... > You must have missed their answers to such questions, check out Psygnosis' > Developer Q & A with Bizarre Creations > <http://racing.psygnosis.com/f197/devqa/index.html>, I'm sure it'll answer > a lot of your queries. > HIgh revvingly yours, > Pasene R. Faifua. > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~stuartc/Well, have they fixed the slowdown problems in the first game? This

rendered it unplayable for me...

Probably Psygnosis F1. But I am talking with regards to the PC version. I could care less what happens on a playstation. Blame the genius who spammed all these newsgroups for the misunderstanding :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Um... You may be right. However if you look on the psygnosis home page, F1 '97 is the European release for the PC. Psygnosis F1 is the American version. F1 97 may also be some sort of sequel for the playstation version. I don't know. I was speaking only with regards to the PC version. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>> If your complaint is a lack of realism in the set up screens, what racer >> would you recommend for the Playstation? >Probably Psygnosis F1. But I am talking with regards to the PC version. >I could care less what happens on a playstation. I still like NASCAR for playstation, Papyrus' version. Now there is apparently the new EA Nascar for Playstation, which I was reviewed on TNN's "NASCAR Shop Talk" or something similiar on TV last night. Jeff Gordon made the passing comment that "It is just like the real thing. It is very competitive... probably even more competitive than the real thing- it is hard to [place? pass?]. The best thing is that I don't have to be Jeff Gordon, I can be Dale Earnhart, or Dale Jarret, or whoever I want to be." I'm not sure they paid him for that spot; there were many Winston Cup drivers there, fooling around with the pre-release or whatever at some function. I'm not convinced... EA isn't my favorite company. F1 is still a pretty good sim... but it isn't a "I'm the crew chief, Driver, Pit-Crew, Owner" sort of sim like we're used to- it is really just about trying to do fast laps. Driving physics are OK, but the AI is lousy. But topping them all is the visual exactness to the real tracks- in that it is, IMO, by far the best simulation on the market; That makes it particularly fun to race before watching the actual F1 race on TV you really do feel like you know the course intimately. With GP2, you know the courses in a sort of "theoretical way", can deduce it, but with F1, you basically know where you are by sight. Where is this new CART-sanctioned simulator I keep seeing ads for? It is out? It is any good? How is this spammed? F197 is a simulator, and it is for playstation.

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>-- >Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >> I can't think of anything superior in this respect... >> I must say it amazes me that a game like Formula 1 '97 is getting such a >> going over for what are minor deficencies when half the world is playing >> ***like Rage Racer and V Rally.

Of course. I haven't seen the latest release yet. But I've noticed in general that a large part of F1 is all about giving a good "going over"- I;ve never seens a sport where so much energy is oriented toward criticizing. Sort of facinating; very ***ic. Where is it out yet? I only read about it in the UK Playstation mags.

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>>>> > Even with wet weather tyres, you will have traction and handling problems >>>> > if your suspension setting is too soft which is good for dry handling and >>>> > traction. >>>> > And vice versa for setting the suspension too hard makes it very quick in >>>> > the wet, but undriveable in the dry. >>>> I know that. Try driving in the wet on slicks you have o grip at all and you >>>> can't get enough speed up to get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. >Is this game that bad?!?!? You want SOFT for mechanical grip, >especially in the wet. Hard, stiff settings (stiff springs, lots of >packers, low ride height) are for smooth, fast tracks like Monza, >where ride height determines most of the car's downforce and thus, >cornering speed. If the car actually handles better with a stiff setup >in the wet, this game (it's certainly nowhere a sim if this is the >case!) is totally screwed up.

Personally I think the manual is wrong !! Nothing more. The car handles as it should Markus --

>I must say it amazes me that a game like Formula 1 '97 is getting such a >going over for what are minor deficencies when half the world is playing >***like Rage Racer and V Rally. The biggest problem in VRally is, that the computer cars always have less high speed than you have. This makes this game to easy, while F1 is really challenging. Absolutely. Markus --

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> >I must say it amazes me that a game like Formula 1 '97 is getting such a > >going over for what are minor deficencies when half the world is playing > >***like Rage Racer and V Rally. > The biggest problem in VRally is, that the computer cars always have > less high speed than you have. This makes this game to easy, while F1 > is really challenging. > >Formula 1 '97 has its faults but lets keep things in perspective. > Absolutely. > Markus > --

have you tried playing v rally on the ace difficulty settings. That makes the oponents a bit quicker but they still accelerate a bit slowly after bends.