Forcefeedback YOU WONT BE SORRY!

For all you auto simmers out there, including myself :) Act Labs has a Force Feedback steering wheel that looks stellar and affordable. The wheel was also award the "Most promising periphereal" at E3 this year. Some features of this bad ass, bad boy: 1)Force Feedback 2)Comes with Pedals 3)Many Programmable buttons on the wheel 4)A 'F1' rocker shifter on the colum 5)Expansion cartridge for other platforms 6)MOST PROMISING PERPH. at E3 '97 7)Get this, it's $99.00!?!?!? Have a peek at : [link lost in import] You wont be sorry! BTW- I don't work for Act, I just can't wait to curbshot this T2 for something different!

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> For all you auto simmers out there, including myself :) Act Labs has >a Force Feedback steering wheel that looks stellar and affordable. The >wheel was also award the "Most promising periphereal" at E3 this year. >Some features of this bad ass, bad boy: >1)Force Feedback >2)Comes with Pedals >3)Many Programmable buttons on the wheel >4)A 'F1' rocker shifter on the colum >5)Expansion cartridge for other platforms >6)MOST PROMISING PERPH. at E3 '97 >7)Get this, it's $99.00!?!?!?

Sounds too good to be true! Any idea when this wheel (the FF one) will be available in stores? Joe

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> > For all you auto simmers out there, including myself :) Act Labs > has > >a Force Feedback steering wheel that looks stellar and affordable. > The > >wheel was also award the "Most promising periphereal" at E3 this > year. > >Some features of this bad ass, bad boy: > >1)Force Feedback > >2)Comes with Pedals > >3)Many Programmable buttons on the wheel > >4)A 'F1' rocker shifter on the colum > >5)Expansion cartridge for other platforms > >6)MOST PROMISING PERPH. at E3 '97 > >7)Get this, it's $99.00!?!?!? > Sounds too good to be true! Any idea when this wheel (the FF one) will > be available in stores? > Joe

Brandon Crick of ACT Labs told me that they were shooting for a mid October release date. I swear, everyhting is slated for a mid October release which seems strange to me. Anyway, on Act's web site, towards the bottom, they say they will have some shots of the pedals up. I still scratched my head and say, how can we get all of this ***with the F/F for $100.00? I guess time will tell! Check your shorts, Tony Gaylord - Portland, OR USA

> Brandon Crick of ACT Labs told me that they were shooting for >a mid October release date. Sounds good, thanks. I know what you mean. Hockey games, 3dfx racing games, FF, everything's in October. Well I get back from a week holiday on the 14th, so that's fine by me. Joe

> I still scratched my head and say, how can we get all of this ***with > the F/F for $100.00? I guess time will tell! Playing the part of a resident cynic, one way is to go incredibly cheap on the servos and controller and have a weak and/or fragile result. As in most things, you get what you pay for. ---Jim

The words "Per4mer Racing Wheel" come to mind... Folco ========================================================================== Folco Banfi -- Universite de Fribourg -- Institut d'Informatique Chemin du Musee 3 -- 1700 Fribourg -- Switzerland -- Tel. +41.26.300.84.79 ========================================================================== Internet Grand National Netcar division ------------ #17 Martini Chevrolet Results at http://www-iiuf.unifr.ch/~banfi/PrinceSite/Prince_main.html [address restored]

99 bucks for a wheel, good deal

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>> Brandon Crick of ACT Labs told me that they were shooting for >>a mid October release date. >Sounds good, thanks. >>I swear, everyhting is slated for a mid >>October release which seems strange to me. >I know what you mean. Hockey games, 3dfx racing games, FF, >everything's in October. Well I get back from a week holiday on the >14th, so that's fine by me. >Joe

> > 7)Get this, it's $99.00!?!?!? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Well IMHO that really says it all.... - don't it?? But you know what the funny thing is, is that at E3 a lot of credible people got their hands on this wheel and I have ONLY heard good things on this thing!? I do remember reading some quotes from some people that were at E3 (transcripts at E3 from OP3dfx , Gamesmania etc,etc) and people were amazed at one, the performance of this wheel and the cost of it. Also, I just recived another Email from Brandon at ACT labs talking about the wheel. I'll put up some words on his response right after I try out the 3DFX version of NFS2 S.E.! Tony Gaylord - Portland, OR

I have'nt broken down yet and bought a steering wheel and pedals, I've done my research and I'm all set... This Christmas season will show us if anybody will present a 'must have' Force Feedback wheel (that is also affordable) . It's a cool concept, but a lot of the arcade Force Feedback games were more annoying than anything else...Playing the Daytona arcade game surprised me when I took a corner and could barely hold on to the wheel because of the simulated g-force..that was pretty cool. I'm rrrreally curious to see how this pans out.. it could be a great addition to racing sims in general.. we will see Rae

> 7)Get this, it's $99.00!?!?!? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Well IMHO that really says it all.... - don't it?? -- Ed_ - Norway Cheek Junior Team http//:home.sol.no/solhmrek "Early on, the cars were getting faster and faster. And with good reason: everybody was cheating." - Richard Petty

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> > I still scratched my head and say, how can we get all of this ***with > > the F/F for $100.00? I guess time will tell! > Playing the part of a resident cynic, one way is to go incredibly cheap > on the servos and controller and have a weak and/or fragile result. As > in most things, you get what you pay for. > ---Jim

Oh Jim, you are just too cynical. Just remember to sign up for a subscription to the replacement parts package. Every month they ship new parts to replace those that only seem to last 3 weeks. The subscription would "only" be $120 per year :) Sign up for the two year subscription for $200, it's a better deal. :) BTW who says you get what you pay for? I thought you usually get less. (they have to make a profit too) mykey

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:54:56 -0700, Tony Gaylord > But you know what the funny thing is, is that at E3 a lot of >credible people got their hands on this wheel and I have ONLY heard good >things on this thing!? I do remember reading some quotes from some >people that were at E3 (transcripts at E3 from OP3dfx , Gamesmania >etc,etc) and people were amazed at one, the performance of this wheel >and the cost of it. Remember that a lot of these people also gave glowing reviews of XCAR so I'm far from convinced that they are above a little *** and corruption from game companies. Having been in that position myself I've seen how it works and consequently have less trust in previews and reviews. You want people to buy your magazine/read your website in order to attratc revenue or advertising. Games companies want favourable exposure for their game to increase market awareness. They provide you positive info which you put on your site for people to come and look at. You get hits/adverts/money, they get advertising, we get BS. That's not to say it's BAD, but if someone like Eric, Marc or Michael on this group says something is good then I value that 1,000 times more highly than anything I read on a games site. The question then is - has anyone here used this ACT Labs wheel? Cheers! John

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>On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:54:56 -0700, Tony Gaylord >> But you know what the funny thing is, is that at E3 a lot of >>credible people got their hands on this wheel and I have ONLY heard good >>things on this thing!? I do remember reading some quotes from some >>people that were at E3 (transcripts at E3 from OP3dfx , Gamesmania >>etc,etc) and people were amazed at one, the performance of this wheel >>and the cost of it. >Remember that a lot of these people also gave glowing reviews of XCAR >so I'm far from convinced that they are above a little *** and >corruption from game companies. Having been in that position myself >I've seen how it works and consequently have less trust in previews >and reviews. >You want people to buy your magazine/read your website in order to >attratc revenue or advertising. Games companies want favourable >exposure for their game to increase market awareness. They provide you >positive info which you put on your site for people to come and look >at. You get hits/adverts/money, they get advertising, we get BS. >That's not to say it's BAD, but if someone like Eric, Marc or Michael >on this group says something is good then I value that 1,000 times >more highly than anything I read on a games site. The question then is >- has anyone here used this ACT Labs wheel? >Cheers! >John

If it is good, who cares about the name brand.....

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>>If it is good, who cares about the name brand..... >No-one. But the question is - is it good? >Until someone has tried it in a real life situation (and someone who we >know and can trust) anything that looks too good to be true can expect to >be taken with a generous pinch of salt ;-) >Cheers, >Richard

it seems like John cares because he was doubting the wheel

No-one. But the question is - is it good? Until someone has tried it in a real life situation (and someone who we know and can trust) anything that looks too good to be true can expect to be taken with a generous pinch of salt ;-) Cheers, Richard

I played around with it briefly at E3, but I saw so much stuff it's hard to remember everything. I guess that means I wasn't too impressed with the wheel, otherwise I would have taken note of it. It did look pretty funky with all of those buttons on it, and wasn't all that comfortable to me. Sorry I can't be of much more help then that... -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

I don't really follow what you mean here, no-one has called the "name brand" into question. Just a concern that maybe $99 isn't enough beans for ANY company to make a good product and a fair profit. Name brand isn't really important but it can give you some pointers as to what to expect. Cheers! John

% >>That's not to say it's BAD, but if someone like Eric, Marc or Michael % >>on this group says something is good then I value that 1,000 times % >>more highly than anything I read on a games site. The question then is % >>- has anyone here used this ACT Labs wheel? % >> % >If it is good, who cares about the name brand..... % I don't really follow what you mean here, no-one has called the "name % brand" into question. Just a concern that maybe $99 isn't enough beans % for ANY company to make a good product and a fair profit. % Name brand isn't really important but it can give you some pointers as % to what to expect. John has an excellent point. Unless the parts are totally worthless (which I am not implying) or the unit is made by children earning $0.06 an hour, I find it extremely hard to figure what the profit margin would be for a $99 forcefeedback wheel. I can't imagine the margin being more than 20 bucks if the parts are half way decent. How many units will they have to seel to see a worthwhile return? All I can say is more power to ACT Labs if they can produce a quality product at that price. I mean take a look at Thrustmaster's none force feedback products and try to figure out the math for one that requires servo motors and circuits. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>% >>That's not to say it's BAD, but if someone like Eric, Marc or Michael >% >>on this group says something is good then I value that 1,000 times >% >>more highly than anything I read on a games site. The question then is >% >>- has anyone here used this ACT Labs wheel? >% >> >% >If it is good, who cares about the name brand..... >% I don't really follow what you mean here, no-one has called the "name >% brand" into question. Just a concern that maybe $99 isn't enough beans >% for ANY company to make a good product and a fair profit. >% Name brand isn't really important but it can give you some pointers as >% to what to expect. >John has an excellent point. Unless the parts are totally worthless >(which I am not implying) or the unit is made by children earning $0.06 >an hour, I find it extremely hard to figure what the profit margin would >be for a $99 forcefeedback wheel. I can't imagine the margin being more >than 20 bucks if the parts are half way decent. How many units will >they have to seel to see a worthwhile return? >All I can say is more power to ACT Labs if they can produce a quality >product at that price. I mean take a look at Thrustmaster's none force >feedback products and try to figure out the math for one that requires >servo motors and circuits. >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Sometimes you will need to lower the price in order to attract more customers since many people like to buy things by names

Yeah, but you still have to make a profit somehow (you'll not find too many companies willing to lose money on a product just to attract customers). It's hard enough to build a quality wheel for $100 and then you still have to factor in the added cost of the motors and stuff. I sincerely hope I'm wrong (I'd love to see a sub-$100 FF wheel as much as anyone), but I'm not putting a lot of faith in it. -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

You never know, maybe they are able to get a good deal with massive orders

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>Yeah, but you still have to make a profit somehow (you'll not find too many >companies willing to lose money on a product just to attract customers). >It's hard enough to build a quality wheel for $100 and then you still have >to factor in the added cost of the motors and stuff. I sincerely hope I'm >wrong (I'd love to see a sub-$100 FF wheel as much as anyone), but I'm not >putting a lot of faith in it. >-- >http://ebusch.akorn.net >>Sometimes you will need to lower the price in order to attract more >>customers since many people like to buy things by names

How's the old joke go? "Hey, we're losing money on thes things!" "Yeah, but we'll make up for it in volume." Joe

> Sometimes you will need to lower the price in order to attract more > customers since many people like to buy things by names Yup, the old, "We'll lose money on each wheel, but make it up in volume!" strategy. ---Jim

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>> Sometimes you will need to lower the price in order to attract more >> customers since many people like to buy things by names >Yup, the old, "We'll lose money on each wheel, but make it up in >volume!" strategy. >---Jim

It doesn't cost 99 bucks to make a steering wheel

> The other alternative is to buy a bunch of crappy parts, slap them > together, and fob them off of the unwary for $99 per pile. You could > probably buy the mailing list of everyone who registered a WinModem and > WinPrinter to get a good response rate... > ---Jim HEY,,,, I resemble that remark ! LOL how in the heck was I supposed to know that a Winmodem was a piece of ***? (at least I had sense enough to return it.....FAST ) :) -- Sit down,Strap in,Shut up,Hang on,Go fast,Turn left,,,Kiss Trophy Girl GGGGGGgoooo #3,,,31,,,28,,,94,,,6,,,5,,,18,,,8,,, Handy^man

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> >> Sometimes you will need to lower the price in order to attract more > >> customers since many people like to buy things by names > >Yup, the old, "We'll lose money on each wheel, but make it up in > >volume!" strategy. > >---Jim > It doesn't cost 99 bucks to make a steering wheel

I'll estimate that it does cost more than 99 bucks (at the retail level) to make a quality force-feedback wheel. I looked into making a few one-offs of a really high quality force feedback wheel, and the components I'd select were well over $1000/unit. Now, those would obviously be in the TSW/ECCI realm of components, but based on my survey of available motors and controllers (even the very low powered ones), I doubt very seriously that a quality force feedback wheel can be built (even in quantity) for $50-60, which is where it would have to come in to sell at $99 retail. Don't believe me? Look at Thrustmaster; they build bazillions of T2 sets, so they get pretty good pricing on components. Their non-force feedback wheels sell for >= $99, and are not of particularly high quality. How are you going to add a servo motor and servo motor control circuitry to a package that already sells for more than your target price and still make the target price? It would be a rare supplier indeed who would sell servos and controllers for a negative amount of money. (If there are any, I'll take as many as you'll "sell" me... :-) ) The other alternative is to buy a bunch of crappy parts, slap them together, and fob them off of the unwary for $99 per pile. You could probably buy the mailing list of everyone who registered a WinModem and WinPrinter to get a good response rate... ---Jim

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>> >> Sometimes you will need to lower the price in order to attract more >> >> customers since many people like to buy things by names >> >Yup, the old, "We'll lose money on each wheel, but make it up in >> >volume!" strategy. >> >---Jim >> It doesn't cost 99 bucks to make a steering wheel >I'll estimate that it does cost more than 99 bucks (at the retail level) >to make a quality force-feedback wheel. I looked into making a few >one-offs of a really high quality force feedback wheel, and the >components I'd select were well over $1000/unit. Now, those would >obviously be in the TSW/ECCI realm of components, but based on my survey >of available motors and controllers (even the very low powered ones), I >doubt very seriously that a quality force feedback wheel can be built >(even in quantity) for $50-60, which is where it would have to come in >to sell at $99 retail. >Don't believe me? Look at Thrustmaster; they build bazillions of T2 >sets, so they get pretty good pricing on components. Their non-force >feedback wheels sell for >= $99, and are not of particularly high >quality. How are you going to add a servo motor and servo motor control >circuitry to a package that already sells for more than your target >price and still make the target price? It would be a rare supplier >indeed who would sell servos and controllers for a negative amount of >money. (If there are any, I'll take as many as you'll "sell" me... :-) ) >The other alternative is to buy a bunch of crappy parts, slap them >together, and fob them off of the unwary for $99 per pile. You could >probably buy the mailing list of everyone who registered a WinModem and >WinPrinter to get a good response rate... >---Jim

Getting a good deal on labor and parts

<snip> % The other alternative is to buy a bunch of crappy parts, slap them % together, and fob them off of the unwary for $99 per pile. You could % probably buy the mailing list of everyone who registered a WinModem and % WinPrinter to get a good response rate... LOL ;-) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

No one has ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American public... -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

That's not very nice! I actually have had good luck with my WinModem. But I probably wouldn't do it again.

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> <snip> > % The other alternative is to buy a bunch of crappy parts, slap them > % together, and fob them off of the unwary for $99 per pile. You could > % probably buy the mailing list of everyone who registered a WinModem and > % WinPrinter to get a good response rate... > LOL ;-) > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% That's not very nice! I actually have had good luck with my WinModem. % But I probably wouldn't do it again. % > <snip> % > % The other alternative is to buy a bunch of crappy parts, slap them % > % together, and fob them off of the unwary for $99 per pile. You could % > % probably buy the mailing list of everyone who registered a WinModem and % > % WinPrinter to get a good response rate... % > % > LOL ;-) % > Sorry, you are right, that wasn't very kind of us. I also understand that some WinModem manufacturers have released some "software" patches that allow the modems to work in a pure DOS environment. (but, still it was funny) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The only thing I needed dos modem support was for Nascar 2. I just used my external practical peripherals 14.4 for that so I guess it never bothered me.

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> % That's not very nice! I actually have had good luck with my WinModem. > % But I probably wouldn't do it again. > % > <snip> > % > % The other alternative is to buy a bunch of crappy parts, slap them > % > % together, and fob them off of the unwary for $99 per pile. You

could > % > % probably buy the mailing list of everyone who registered a WinModem and

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> % > % WinPrinter to get a good response rate... > % > > % > LOL ;-) > % > > Sorry, you are right, that wasn't very kind of us. I also understand > that some WinModem manufacturers have released some "software" patches > that allow the modems to work in a pure DOS environment. > (but, still it was funny) > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Is there one for a USR 33.6 Sportster Internal WinModem? Ben -={ To get my real email address, remove the NOSPAM }=- SPAMMERS!!! Read this!!! No spam for me! Unwanted, unsolicited commmercial email WILL be dealt with.. And, why the hell do you even bother sending the shit if you don't include your own return address?

% >Sorry, you are right, that wasn't very kind of us. I also understand % >that some WinModem manufacturers have released some "software" patches % >that allow the modems to work in a pure DOS environment. % > % Is there one for a USR 33.6 Sportster Internal WinModem? I've done some quick searching and it looks like at the moment only Gateway has a patch for their "Telepath" WinModems (which are USR OEM's). However, this patch only works with the Telepath and may only work in a DOS box within Win95. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=