I didn't think the sound was too bad - a lot better than F1.
I only have a p166 classic - and other than at the start and at the
end of Rettifilo (the first chicane) where it does dog out a bit, it
seems quite fast. The menu only says 21 cars tho', I presume this
means that if you run more then it gets worse. To be fair GP2 has a
problem at the end of Rettifilo on my machine too (in hires that is).
I hope there is still some optimising to be done (and or details
levels to be set - is there an option for this in the demo?). To be
honest though its on my shopping list as of now, which is a surprise
as I was very cynical about it. For that cynicism I appologise to
Ubisoft.
Better sound would be nice, though I don't think its all that bad. At
last Crammond can no longer rest on his laurels regarding F1. Come on
Geoff - GP3, 3D accelerated - with weather & proper multiplay.
Like I say - I've as good as handed over the cash for this in my mind.
Dave
So how would you rate it with GP2. Of course, GP2 is not that good but
gameplay likewise, how would you compare them?
OK I'll address a few things which I think are important in a sim such
as this:
Feel: quite nice, A bit more 'twitchy' than GP2 - a bit of a hybrid of
GP2 & ICR2. The demo only allows brake balance settings to be changed,
so I can't tell how much the setup influences handling that much.
Physics: Seems OK, there is a tendency to want to 'escape' under heavy
braking, something that wan't in GP2. Again I'd like to be able to
adjust a few more settings to see whether they work ok.
Speed: Pretty fast - except at the end of Rettifilo into the first
chicane at the start of the race when all the cars are bunched around
the chicane. It really slows down here. This is a bit of a concern. I
hope they address this in final version. GP2 does this too in highres.
BTW: I have a p166 classic, a guy said he gets no slowdown on his PII
266!
Sound: Not as good a GP2 in terms of sound quality, change downs
sounds a bit rough. I think its a lot better than Psygnosis F1. One of
the complaints about other hearing other cars in GP2 is addressed -
you can hear them.
Track: It seems OK, gradient isn't really apparent at Monza, though
where you expect a little bit it is there. The Track at least at Monza
seems more accurate than GP2. I've seen video footage of F1RS (that's
the new abbreviation) at Monaco at this seems to have a lot of
gradient - more than GP2. So signs are the tracks are better than GP2.
Other: Pit crew is wonderful - no cardboard cutouts here, 3D pitcrew
remove and change your nosecone, rear wing etc... There is a guy with
a fuel filler too. It really is nice.
MISC:
It has a***pit (different ones for each car). Your wheels spin. Your
wheels are visible in front of you (looks a lot like ICRx). It has
mirrors - though they are a little small (but useable). It has wet
races - I've seen this on video too and it looks very good.
Reservations:
1) The slowdown with lots of cars.
[Begin examination of perhaps why this is so]
Now this is either: too many polys, too many textures (texture
thrashing) or not enough optimization.
In the first case (too many polys)- I'm not sure they are using
reduced detail models for stuff further away. This could be addressed.
Second case (too many textures) - this could be addressed by a number
of ways - I think there a too many frivalous textures at the point
where it does slow down, a few could be lost with little impact - I
could live without the sky & cardboard cutout crowd (lets have an
option to turn stuff on/off selectively). Another way is the details
on the cars. If a car if far away don't bother to texture it - just
shade it the appropriate colors.
They may have thought of these as they are obvious - but you never
know! If it is a texture related problem a 6mb voodoo card would help.
Finally optimization - well that speaks for itself.
[End examination]
2) The car seems to be under autopilot when coming out of the pits -
you don't seem to get control back until your car is right on the
track. Someone said there may be an option to turn this off. I hope
so.
3) Joystick control needs a bit of refinement - It just isn't as good
as it should be. There is a tendency for a bit of drift. I think this
is a dead zone issue (i.e. its not big enough)
4) Views in the demo are limited to***pit and two behind car views.
In game options are noticeable by their absence - no detail settings
etc.... (I think its a beta after all)
If they address these points I'm sure there will be very few
complaints. I'm sold already.
To be quite honest having played it for a while, if you told me it was
GP3 - I would believe you. It certainly has a lot of GP2 in the way
it feels, I can't really explain it - it just does. I'll temper that
too by saying it does have some ICR2 in it too!
If you can afford the time download the demo - I thought it well worth
it. I have *never* download a demo larger than 20MB before - I did
with this (27MB) and wasn't disappointed. It took about me about 2.5
hours to download on my 33.6.
Dave
> (snipped the whole thing)
> Dave
I'd have to agree with Dave on everything. The game is very "GP2-like". I
feel that much of the physics and control issues stem from the inability to
setup the chassis and steering lock. The demo comes with a very low
downforce setup and WAY too much steering lock (feels like 40 degrees!).
Then, you can't change either to suit your driving. Thus, the car
understeers heavily and feels very twitchy because of too much wheel lock.
If my assumptions are correct, the physics seem very good indeed. The
graphics, I trust, will be sped up in the first chicane. If these folks
have driven GP2 (surely they have), they would never let that problem
survive the beta.
I really like it!
--
Matt & Audrey Lewis
250 to 233 = overclock...? ;)
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > (snipped the whole thing) > > Dave > I'd have to agree with Dave on everything. The game is very "GP2-like". I > feel that much of the physics and control issues stem from the inability to > setup the chassis and steering lock. The demo comes with a very low233 overclocked to 250 (or thereabouts 3x83=249, but its probably
83.something)
Dave
On Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:20:24 -0400, Matt & Audrey Lewis
If your correct that there is very little down force, then the speed
on straights should be better than other cars, whereas it is about the
same or slightly worse than the other cars. Of course, its possible
that more front wing would help the cornering, but it seems quite poor
to me. I can't take the first chicane at more than 90 kph, whereas in
GP2, its easy to take it at 120+.
Also, there is no wheel spin at all. No variation in traction as the
weight is distributed among the wheels. Driving feels like floating
above the road. This makes me wonder if Ubisoft can make core changes
to the driving model given that the demo is already in beta.
The AI, while better than any arcade racing that I've seen, is still
quite poor compared to GP2. Take the first chicane at Monza for
example. Its like a Destruction Derby session rather than an
intelligent progression as in GP2. Drive around with some of the AI
cars and you'll see them bumping into the back of the car in front
every few seconds instead of trying to pass.
I think the graphics and attention to many details, shadows, lighting
and damage model, etc are great, but its got a (long) way to go to
match the driving experience of GP2.
(Another) Dave.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Quoted text (11 lines)
>I'd have to agree with Dave on everything. The game is very "GP2-like". I >feel that much of the physics and control issues stem from the inability to >setup the chassis and steering lock. The demo comes with a very low >downforce setup and WAY too much steering lock (feels like 40 degrees!). >Then, you can't change either to suit your driving. Thus, the car >understeers heavily and feels very twitchy because of too much wheel lock. >If my assumptions are correct, the physics seem very good indeed. The >graphics, I trust, will be sped up in the first chicane. If these folks >have driven GP2 (surely they have), they would never let that problem >survive the beta.I just wanted to point out something about that demo for F1. The demo first
appeared on a French magazine cover CD. I understand that to produce in bulk
and distribute a CD of demos, the lag time is roughly one month (thus the
outdated demos found on many magazine CDs). If this is the case, as it likely
is, with the Ubisoft demo, then the demo was surely released 2 months or more
ago. That means that if it will be released in Oct., the demo is merely an
alpha version and would receive much, MUCH tweaking and improvement before
release. Remember how sorry the Papyrus Nascar2 demo was?? It sucked, but
the game was awesome when released 3 months later.
Take heart, this came could be totally different and BETTER when released!
--
Matt & Audrey Lewis
Well there is a power setting for the engine and when you set that up
higher the speeds start getting more inline with the AI...of course
since you cannot adjust the wings...things get a little dicey in the
corners...
Maybe I misunderstand you ....but I have gotten into some very nice 4
wheel drifts...not on purpose of course but it did slide rather
nicely.
AI, Im sure, is something that is being tweaked until release....
I dont think its that long a ways...wonder how good GP2 was at the
same stage.....In someways I think its better right now....graphics of
course.....the reaction of the car over bumps......slides.....so to me
its not that far away.
I cant wait for the release.
Pierre
Says who? On my machine the setting 'Realiste' is lit, 'facile' is
not. This says to me that this is the 'Realistic' settings. I don't
know what yours says.
I think its pretty promising. Given that we have very little idea what
the setup is, what the steering lock is etc.... and that we currently
can't change hardly any settings. Not to mention that it is a Beta.
I don't think that it is an arcade racer by any means - even as it
stands. I saw a comment that said it was only slightly better than
PF1, thats an opinion, but not one that I can relate too.
There seems to be this idea that a sim is one type of game and a
arcade is another - there seems to be a lack of understanding that
there is a sliding scale with 'good sim' at one end and '***arcade
game' at the other. Lets face it there are some who still think that
GP2 isn't a sim. If you want to think in purely black & white terms I
think you will always be disappointed.
It was me who liked the pit crew, but I do agree - I think I would
prefer to be able to remain in the car. I just don't think the demo
will reflect the game at all in terms of options. I could be wrong. If
so then OK, but it seems stupid not to have _loads_ of options.
Options, options and more options, in that way it may go some of the
way to pleasing everyone. We could list dozens of things wrong or
omitted with it as it is. Lets just hope it doesn't remain that way.
Most definitely. Some said that it does have an option to remove the
autosteer in the pits. Its been far too long since my school french
lessons to know.
This is the most promising thing since GP2 (F1 wise), whether it does
topple GP2 is a question we will have leave in the air until it is
released. One things for certain, it is competition for Geoff at last.
He has had virtually none till now.
Some people are having a go already. I think this is a little
premature. Cut them a little slack, if is sucks when its released then
we'll all have a good moan. It needs to remembered that everyone has
his tastes, some still dislike GP2 - others see it as the benchmark to
beat.
Dave
> >I am not too comfortable with the physics of GP2 (I prefer ICR2) but you
> >are comparing the arcade mode of F1RC with the sim physics of GP2....
> Says who? On my machine the setting 'Realiste' is lit, 'facile' is
> not. This says to me that this is the 'Realistic' settings. I don't
> know what yours says.
I had French in school, but that was a long time ago. Anyway, the word
'Realiste' translates to 'Realism' and the toggle reads 'Facile' which
means 'Easy'. So the realism is set to easy and not realistic???
Is ther nobody on this newsgroup who could stop me guessing?? I'm just
too lazy to search for my French dictionary...
I'm just gessing (but I hope I am right), because I wouldn't like it,
if the current mode already represents the realistic car physics.
l8er
ronny
Quoted text (9 lines)
>> >I am not too comfortable with the physics of GP2 (I prefer ICR2) but you >> >are comparing the arcade mode of F1RC with the sim physics of GP2.... >> Says who? On my machine the setting 'Realiste' is lit, 'facile' is >> not. This says to me that this is the 'Realistic' settings. I don't >> know what yours says. >I had French in school, but that was a long time ago. Anyway, the word >'Realiste' translates to 'Realism' and the toggle reads 'Facile' which >means 'Easy'. So the realism is set to easy and not realistic???Quoted text (10 lines)
>> Says who? On my machine the setting 'Realiste' is lit, 'facile' is >> not. This says to me that this is the 'Realistic' settings. I don't >> know what yours says. >I had French in school, but that was a long time ago. Anyway, the word >'Realiste' translates to 'Realism' and the toggle reads 'Facile' which >means 'Easy'. So the realism is set to easy and not realistic??? >Is ther nobody on this newsgroup who could stop me guessing?? I'm just >too lazy to search for my French dictionary...I think it conveyed the point tho' - realistic or realism - same
connotation. That isn't the argument.
Dave
>>I'm sure I had more french than you in school. But it's long ago. Nevertheless:
>>"realiste" is 'realistic' (not 'realism'), "facile" is 'easy', as you said.
>I think it conveyed the point tho' - realistic or realism - same
>connotation. That isn't the argument.
Well, there IS a small difference:
'realism' sounds like an OPTION, with different possible settings. 'Realistic'
sounds like a SETTING, just like 'easy'.
Makes a difference for those who read it.
Not that it is important enough to launch a thread... :-)
JoH
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