RACING ADVANTAGES FOR SOME!!!

Jim Sokoloff: Even if the computers are all created equally what happens to the equality when the latencies are different. On Hawaii we all are nominally at 20ms,but with TEN it can be anywhere from 10ms to 300ms latencies.. I play a heck of alot of Quake and I do it either from my home or at the ISP. I have a 160ms delay when I call the local quake server from my home. I have a 5ms delay when I play quake from my ISP. The Point is that I cannot be beat when playing quake from the ISP as I can react 10 times faster than when I play at home. Before some of these guys can turn I see it with my low latency and I kill the suckers... Now will this apply to NASCAR. I can see that I can race NASCAR (NRO) and I am running a tight track with cars all around me. I got some people that are running with a 5ms delay, some with say 60ms delay, some with 120ms delay and other with like 200ms plus. How will TEN keep us all with different delays from inadvertently running into each other and will be with a lower like ISP 5ms latency have an advantage or turning quickly or jumping into a hole faster than someone with a slower latency... Don Wilshe, IVGA

> Even if the computers are all created equally what > happens to the equality when the latencies are > different. On Hawaii we all are nominally at 20ms,but > with TEN it can be anywhere from 10ms to 300ms latencies.. I don't think Hawaii ever gets down to 20ms, but I could be wrong. I believe a more common latency on Hawaii is in the neighborhood of 150ms. The higher latency your connection is, the worse the game will play. This is an immutable law of nature. Your car will behave the same, but the cars around you will not be as "stable" for lack of a better word. Jumping into a gap in traffic won't be much of a factor, because the cars have so much inertia relative to the amount they can move around in traffic in a very short period of time. The real problem comes from the game being forced to extrapolate positions from stale data. The higher the latency, the more stale the data. The more stale the data, the worse the game will behave in traffic. There's code in place currently to attempt to deal with this problem, but so long as the data recieved by the client is stale, there's no silver bullet solution. So, yes, those people with bad/overloaded/not well connected ISPs will not have as good a game as someone connected through a lightly loaded link close to a TEN backbone router. ---Jim

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> > Even if the computers are all created equally what > > happens to the equality when the latencies are > > different. On Hawaii we all are nominally at 20ms,but > > with TEN it can be anywhere from 10ms to 300ms latencies.. > I don't think Hawaii ever gets down to 20ms, but I could be wrong. I > believe a more common latency on Hawaii is in the neighborhood of 150ms. > The higher latency your connection is, the worse the game will play. > This is an immutable law of nature. Your car will behave the same, but > the cars around you will not be as "stable" for lack of a better word. > > I can see that I can race NASCAR (NRO) and I am running > > a tight track with cars all around me. I got some > > people that are running with a 5ms delay, some with > > say 60ms delay, some with 120ms delay and other with > > like 200ms plus. How will TEN keep us all with different > > delays from inadvertently running into each other and > > will be with a lower like ISP 5ms latency have an > > advantage or turning quickly or jumping into a hole > > faster than someone with a slower latency... > Jumping into a gap in traffic won't be much of a factor, because the > cars have so much inertia relative to the amount they can move around in > traffic in a very short period of time. > The real problem comes from the game being forced to extrapolate > positions from stale data. The higher the latency, the more stale the > data. The more stale the data, the worse the game will behave in > traffic. There's code in place currently to attempt to deal with this > problem, but so long as the data recieved by the client is stale, > there's no silver bullet solution. > So, yes, those people with bad/overloaded/not well connected ISPs will > not have as good a game as someone connected through a lightly loaded > link close to a TEN backbone router. > ---Jim

Thank you Jim for the ever present "fresh" information we receive from Papyrus . Bad enough that people have waited rather patiently for the most part for NRO to even start and i might add a few I know have paid Ten over 100.00 dollars now and not been able to run the first lap I wonder how fast the "bug ironing" process would advance if there was a company that could hook up twenty racers using NAS2 and race !! Thats what we need a competitor for the service . HMMMMM I would think it could be done and the next part of that equation would be the cost to the online sim racer . Would it be affordable hmmmm Hawaii racers pay 6.00 per hour IF they have a dime plan and some weekenders get it free through a rate plan . NOW being we STILL have no REAL idea what this will cost (NRO) which would they choose? Now what of the installation costs and maintenence expense of the actual servers ?? Well in all honesty thats a good question but one a few educated people could figure out . I think the time has come to look to alternatives to the NRO for the consumers racing enjoyment . David Hudson

> > > Even if the computers are all created equally what > > > happens to the equality when the latencies are > > > different. On Hawaii we all are nominally at 20ms,but > > > with TEN it can be anywhere from 10ms to 300ms latencies.. > > I don't think Hawaii ever gets down to 20ms, but I could be wrong. I > > believe a more common latency on Hawaii is in the neighborhood of 150ms.

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> > The higher latency your connection is, the worse the game will play. > > This is an immutable law of nature. Your car will behave the same, but > > the cars around you will not be as "stable" for lack of a better word. > > > I can see that I can race NASCAR (NRO) and I am running > > > a tight track with cars all around me. I got some > > > people that are running with a 5ms delay, some with > > > say 60ms delay, some with 120ms delay and other with > > > like 200ms plus. How will TEN keep us all with different > > > delays from inadvertently running into each other and > > > will be with a lower like ISP 5ms latency have an > > > advantage or turning quickly or jumping into a hole > > > faster than someone with a slower latency... > > Jumping into a gap in traffic won't be much of a factor, because the > > cars have so much inertia relative to the amount they can move around

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> > traffic in a very short period of time. > > The real problem comes from the game being forced to extrapolate > > positions from stale data. The higher the latency, the more stale the > > data. The more stale the data, the worse the game will behave in > > traffic. There's code in place currently to attempt to deal with this > > problem, but so long as the data recieved by the client is stale, > > there's no silver bullet solution. > > So, yes, those people with bad/overloaded/not well connected ISPs will > > not have as good a game as someone connected through a lightly loaded > > link close to a TEN backbone router. > > ---Jim > Thank you Jim for the ever present "fresh" information we receive from > Papyrus . Bad enough that people have waited rather patiently for the > most part for NRO to even start and i might add a few I know have paid > Ten over 100.00 dollars now and not been able to run the first lap > I wonder how fast the "bug ironing" process would advance if there was > a company that could hook up twenty racers using NAS2 and race !! > Thats what we need a competitor for the service . HMMMMM > I would think it could be done and the next part of that equation > would be the cost to the online sim racer . Would it be affordable > hmmmm Hawaii racers pay 6.00 per hour IF they have a dime plan > and some weekenders get it free through a rate plan . NOW being we > STILL have no REAL idea what this will cost (NRO) which would they > choose? Now what of the installation costs and maintenence expense > of the actual servers ?? Well in all honesty thats a good question > but one a few educated people could figure out . > I think the time has come to look to alternatives to the NRO > for the consumers racing enjoyment . > David Hudson

I agree one-hundred percent. Fortunately, I haven't signed up with TEN yet. Dave Baker

I would be extremely surprised if Hawaii offered latencies of 20ms. Even playing Quake in the office from my terminal hooked into the UK's "SuperJANET" network (VERY fast academic network connecting universities and hospitals) and playing on a second server on SuperJANET the latency is around 35ms or more. Using a dialup from home on a 28.8 directly into a SuperJANET terminal the best is around 150ms. It would surely be nice to play with a 20ms latency on Hawaii but I fear it is a pipe dream. Cheers! John

> Jim Sokoloff: > Even if the computers are all created equally what > happens to the equality when the latencies are > different. On Hawaii we all are nominally at 20ms,but > with TEN it can be anywhere from 10ms to 300ms latencies.. [SNIP] > Don Wilshe, IVGA Don If your 20ms to hawaii is based on the reported latentcy the number you prabably are seeing is .20 latency or 200ms. To achieve 20ms would need to get .02 I haven't achieved that under null modem let alone long distance. or 110ms for me. mykey