Is there ANY way to improve grip on ICR2 road courses

I know we all know that ICR2 is simulated better on ovals than on the road courses. But after spinning out at Portland for the 1 millionth time going 15mph, I am getting fed up (yes I know how to properly drive Portland!) Is there ANY way to improve the grip on road courses? Mid Ohio is the same way. -Jeff --------------------------------------------------- My Favorite Syndicated TV Shows Schedules: http://www.binary.net/ptsbrgfan/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------

This is off subject, but your post echoes many thoughts I had as I fought car setups in ICR2 (and NCR2 for that matter). I set it aside when GP2 came out some time ago, and only recently reinstalled it and drove/limped a few laps around Elkhart. The difference between the two is night and day! I'm certain that you can set up the car up so it turns in; I've done it before. What's missing, though, is the level of feel you have going into, around, and out of corners in GP2. I haven't put my finger on the difference, but I think it might be simply the sharper (more cartoonish, more saturated colors?) graphics in GP2. Whatever it is, I feel the speed; I feel impending wheel lock, and I feel impending oversteer. I can threshold brake diving into corners; I can feather the throttle on the edge of wheel spin coming out. Driving ICR2 in comparison was very much like sloshing around in mush. I know intellectually that turn 5 (at Elkhart) is slow, and I know from experience that I can delay a touch past the "2" marker to brake. I know from trial and error how much I can trail brake turning in, and I know this puts me on a line that I can put the hammer down a heart beat past apex. Very little of it is feel. The sensation of speed is just not there in ICR2. It feels heavy and ponderous, like a bowling ball in a hurry. GP2 is light and delicate, more like a surgeon's finely honed scalpel blade. Is this just a difference in the games, or a correct reflection of reality? I recently took to watching the FIA guys go at it, and the truth is, the F1 cars genuinely look faster, tauter, and more in control than CART's. Anyway, with fine control over every setting on the car in GP2, I can't imagine how I ever managed to setup an ICR car to do anything. Maybe it is just the difference in the games after all. Mike. =====

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> I know we all know that ICR2 is simulated better on ovals than on the > road courses. But after spinning out at Portland for the 1 millionth > time going 15mph, I am getting fed up (yes I know how to properly drive > Portland!) Is there ANY way to improve the grip on road courses? Mid > Ohio is the same way. > -Jeff > --------------------------------------------------- > My Favorite Syndicated TV Shows Schedules: > http://www.binary.net/ptsbrgfan/index.htm > ---------------------------------------------------

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> I know we all know that ICR2 is simulated better on ovals than on the > road courses. But after spinning out at Portland for the 1 millionth > time going 15mph, I am getting fed up (yes I know how to properly drive > Portland!) Is there ANY way to improve the grip on road courses? Mid > Ohio is the same way. > -Jeff > --------------------------------------------------- > My Favorite Syndicated TV Shows Schedules: > http://www.binary.net/ptsbrgfan/index.htm > ---------------------------------------------------

Yes. Look for these lines in the track .txt files: TCFF 61535 59535 57535 57535 80800 79989 28989 39000 (front) TCFR 65535 63535 61535 61535 84800 83989 32989 43000 (Rear) These are from my modified "Porthq" track. The first 2 sets of numbers are for the hard compound, the second for the medium, the 3rd for the soft, and the 4th for the unused rain compound tire. By changing the value up it usually results in much better grip. Example change the "61535" to "81535" you should get alot more grip. Just remember to modify both the upper and lower sets of numbers, and all of them equally. I never bother with the rain tires. If changing up doesn't work, then try changing them down. But I'm pretty sure it's increasing the value that works. Remember, this is not cheating, you are just getting better tires just like the big boys. Mike

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> TCFF 61535 59535 57535 57535 80800 79989 28989 39000 (front) > TCFR 65535 63535 61535 61535 84800 83989 32989 43000 (Rear) > These are from my modified "Porthq" track. The first 2 sets of numbers > are for the hard compound, the second for the medium, the 3rd for the > soft, and the 4th for the unused rain compound tire. By changing the > value up it usually results in much better grip. Example change the > "61535" to "81535" you should get alot more grip.

Keep in mind that if the values are loaded into unsigned 16-bit quantities, 65535 is the largest number that will have a good effect. 81535 will actually end up as (81535-65536), which I'm too lazy to actually do the subtraction. Counter-intuitive perhaps, but that's how computers work sometimes... ---Jim

I agree totally with this. I despise ICR2 for this... it equals no fun at all. However, as you say, it's not a Papyrus fault, because sliding around in Nascar/N2 is a barrel of laughs!! -- Dave Bowers

Get the Rendition version (and a Rendition-based video card) of ICR2! You won't regret it!!! Loren

add more cross weight to the right side. it worked in nascar2

...er...in case you haven't noticed, IndyCar II dosen't use the crossweight feature. Marc

>add more cross weight to the right side. it worked in nascar2 Uh, Indycars don't have a cross weight adjustment... Increasing the negative camber on all four wheels will work wonders. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick L. Dotson Delco Electronics IWCC #98 Mountain Dew Kokomo, Indiana Audio Systems - Playback Can-Am Motor Sports R328 1-1293 Lead Mechanical Engineer Chevrolet-Monte Carlo -------------------------------------------------------------------------

: >add more cross weight to the right side. it worked in nascar2 : ...er...in case you haven't noticed, IndyCar II dosen't use the : crossweight feature. Very true. But I am curious, I've heard mention several times this year about the drivers in CART being able to adjust the "weight jack" from the***pit. Is this adjustment similar to the adjustments made by the NASCAR pit crew? -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

(snip) The way you may adjust the weight jack on an indycar is by setting the rake of the chassis, i . e ride height front vs. rear. Indycars are pretty dependant on their aerodynamics, they even use a 3rd shock to stop the dive & rise motions when accel. and braking. I can`t say for sure, but I think the only driver-adjustable chassis feature still is the roll-bars. Any rake etc would be adjusting aerodynamics while moving, and that is not allowed. -- Matthew Birger Knutsen Cheek Racing Cars Flatebyveien 5, N-1792 Norway Fax (+47) 69 19 02 55 Mobile: (+47) 92 44 66 50

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>The way you may adjust the weight jack on an indycar is by setting the >rake of the chassis, i . e ride height front vs. rear. Indycars are >pretty dependant on their aerodynamics, they even use a 3rd shock to >stop the dive & rise motions when accel. and braking. >I can`t say for sure, but I think the only driver-adjustable chassis >feature still is the roll-bars. Any rake etc would be adjusting >aerodynamics while moving, and that is not allowed.

no longer true as of the 1996 season. Drivers now have access to a hydraulic weight jacking system that, using hydralics, raise and lower the spring platforms on one or multiple (not sure) corners of the car to change weight distribution. I believe it's only for one corner, but don't see why they can't do all four for an "adjustable" suspension. I first saw it introduced by TV on Robby G's Valvoline car last year. Gregory Fung Vancouver, B.C., Canada

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> >The way you may adjust the weight jack on an indycar is by setting the > >rake of the chassis, i . e ride height front vs. rear. Indycars are > >pretty dependant on their aerodynamics, they even use a 3rd shock to > >stop the dive & rise motions when accel. and braking. > >I can`t say for sure, but I think the only driver-adjustable chassis > >feature still is the roll-bars. Any rake etc would be adjusting > >aerodynamics while moving, and that is not allowed. > no longer true as of the 1996 season. Drivers now have access to a > hydraulic weight jacking system that, using hydralics, raise and lower the > spring platforms on one or multiple (not sure) corners of the car to change > weight distribution. I believe it's only for one corner, but don't see why > they can't do all four for an "adjustable" suspension. I first saw it > introduced by TV on Robby G's Valvoline car last year.

Very intersting, Sorry I did not know. However, if they can actually change ride height, this is "active ride" - like F1 used to have. It was outlawed there - so dare i say indycar is ahead of F1:) I know Ohlins have had a system like this for motorcycles - getting to the spring/shock unit on the race bikes can be a hassle. I would very much like to read some on this - anybody know where i can find info? Matt -- Matthew Birger Knutsen Cheek Racing Cars Flatebyveien 5, N-1792 Norway Fax (+47) 69 19 02 55 Mobile: (+47) 92 44 66 50

>>add more cross weight to the right side. it worked in nascar2 >Uh, Indycars don't have a cross weight adjustment... >Increasing the negative camber on all four wheels will >work wonders. I was actually thinking while I was tip toeing around Portland that with the rain they had during the last race (doesn't it seem to rain at every Portland race?) that the CART drivers finally know what we ICR2 drivers have to put up with. :o) Cheers, Craig