N2 converter

Hello everyone, some people asked me to write my opinion about Dave Noonan's converter. I wasn't informed about the things, because I was very busy in the last months and did not spend any hour with sim racing. I was also not able to answer all the e-mails (many) concerning my programs, PLEASE EXCUSE ME FOR THAT. I and all the others who helped me, like Nigel Pattinson, John Wallace, Doug Arnao, Neil Jedrzejewski, Marc Nelson and Robert Hilpert (I've to mention them again here, because I'm not the god of sim racing, like someone wrote) invested many hours without any payment. The reason I (we) decided not to charge for it, was to give something back. I downloaded many free nice car sets and utilities too. Besides that I'm not sure if that would be legal. (Someone from Papyrus told me that they've nothing against my free utilities.) I can understand that Dave requests for compensation, because I know that it took him many days (and nights) to build this program, but first of all does he pay for everything he downloads ? 2nd, compared with the price of the game itself , 20 pounds are a lot of money for a utility. If Trevor Kellaway, who wrote the great JAM2BMP program, had just charged 5 pounds, he'd be rich (Emh, I mean if everyone who is using it would pay him). 3rd, other people may now also want to charge for their work. If that's the case, I'll never upload something free too. I hope that's not the trend. 4th, Dave has not made new LP files for the tracks. If he suggests the use of my files, that'll not be nice without my agreement. Ok, he can use my files, if he sends 5 pounds for every sold converter to UNICEF.<g> Another thing, I'd like to say: I read that utilities, like ST2BMP etc. are available on the web. I never give my agreement for that. I handed this programs to a few people (maybe 5), who helped me discovering the structure of the track object files, with the obligation not to give them away, as I don't want to see 'new' tracks, like Daytona. Everyone promised me not to publish this programs (!?) One final info: I'm now (since yesterday) trying to discover the structure of the N2 files myself. Cheers, Gerhard Lingenberg

Hi Gerhard, it's good to see you're alive and well! And it's a shame we havn't heard from you for so long. As for your comments on the N2 converter - very deliberate and thoughtful. I agree that Dave util is a bit too expensive, considering the price Papy charges for N2. Also, if he really uses your LP files, this is even less nice, and he should really be ashamed for doing so. That would be very bad style. OTOH, I purchased his converter (must not forget to send him the money this weekend!!) and the tool works just fine. Two little mouseclicks, and whoops... there's the converted track. I'm not even that dissatisfied with the car behaviour - although your LP files were better. It's nice to hear you're diving into N2 now yourself <g> Achim

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>Hello everyone, >some people asked me to write my opinion about Dave Noonan's converter. >I wasn't informed about the things, because I was very busy in the last >months and did not spend any hour with sim racing. I was also not able >to answer all the e-mails (many) concerning my programs, PLEASE EXCUSE >ME FOR THAT. >I and all the others who helped me, like Nigel Pattinson, John Wallace, >Doug Arnao, Neil Jedrzejewski, Marc Nelson and Robert Hilpert (I've to >mention them again here, because I'm not the god of sim racing, like >someone wrote) invested many hours without any payment. The reason I >(we) decided not to charge for it, was to give something back. I >downloaded many free nice car sets and utilities too. Besides that I'm >not sure if that would be legal. (Someone from Papyrus told me that >they've nothing against my free utilities.) >I can understand that Dave requests for compensation, because I know >that it took him many days (and nights) to build this program, but first >of all does he pay for everything he downloads ? 2nd, compared with the >price of the game itself , 20 pounds are a lot of money for a utility. >If Trevor Kellaway, who wrote the great JAM2BMP program, had just >charged 5 pounds, he'd be rich (Emh, I mean if everyone who is using it >would pay him). 3rd, other people may now also want to charge for their >work. If that's the case, I'll never upload something free too. I hope >that's not the trend. 4th, Dave has not made new LP files for the >tracks. If he suggests the use of my files, that'll not be nice without >my agreement. Ok, he can use my files, if he sends 5 pounds for every >sold converter to UNICEF.<g> >Another thing, I'd like to say: >I read that utilities, like ST2BMP etc. are available on the web. I >never give my agreement for that. I handed this programs to a few people >(maybe 5), who helped me discovering the structure of the track object >files, with the obligation not to give them away, as I don't want to see >'new' tracks, like Daytona. Everyone promised me not to publish this >programs (!?) >One final info: >I'm now (since yesterday) trying to discover the structure of the N2 >files myself. >Cheers, >Gerhard Lingenberg

I will try to be brief about Gerhard's posting, but I do want to rectify some of what has been implied. I wrote the converter on my own. After a few weeks of evenings & weekends I finally took almost a month out of work to crack the problem. The complexity of the program and the need for support is what motivated me to ask for payment. I also did not want my work distributed on some 'freeware' basis packaged on CD for somebody else to benefit from. There is a free version, the full converter can be ordered and is emailed before I see any payment. On receiving payment I send out another version which includes improved AI, tree objects etc. I think the AI in that version is fine, I'll leave others to argue its merits. I do not think that this method of selling is blatant commercialism. All converter versions modify the RACE.LP file. On my web site I suggest using the AI files from The Pits to 'improve' the Free version. I also thought I had asked for and recieved permission to do this. I will remove the offending lines. The payment, which I cannot force out of anybody, is higher than it would have been if I had not been working on my own and living in the UK. I have sent out fragments of code to help others in their projects. The converter does not include data files from Papyrus's products, which is what I understood, probably incorrectly, to be the main problem. I think it would be of greatest benefit to everybody to offer to cooperate with me to produce a N2 to ICR2 converter, a sharing of the workload and support for this project would mean it could be for free. Lastly, I hope my tone has not been aggressive, let's not all degenerate into a flame war over this. There are many more interesting topics deserving of debate than this one. Dave Noonan

This is the spirit. And lets hope we can have great LP files, maybe including even the SPOT1.LP.

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>Hello everyone, >some people asked me to write my opinion about Dave Noonan's converter. >I wasn't informed about the things, because I was very busy in the last >months and did not spend any hour with sim racing. I was also not able >to answer all the e-mails (many) concerning my programs, PLEASE EXCUSE >ME FOR THAT. >I and all the others who helped me, like Nigel Pattinson, John Wallace, >Doug Arnao, Neil Jedrzejewski, Marc Nelson and Robert Hilpert (I've to >mention them again here, because I'm not the god of sim racing, like >someone wrote) invested many hours without any payment. The reason I >(we) decided not to charge for it, was to give something back. I >downloaded many free nice car sets and utilities too. Besides that I'm >not sure if that would be legal. (Someone from Papyrus told me that >they've nothing against my free utilities.) >I can understand that Dave requests for compensation, because I know >that it took him many days (and nights) to build this program, but first >of all does he pay for everything he downloads ? 2nd, compared with the >price of the game itself , 20 pounds are a lot of money for a utility. >If Trevor Kellaway, who wrote the great JAM2BMP program, had just >charged 5 pounds, he'd be rich (Emh, I mean if everyone who is using it >would pay him). 3rd, other people may now also want to charge for their >work. If that's the case, I'll never upload something free too. I hope >that's not the trend. 4th, Dave has not made new LP files for the >tracks. If he suggests the use of my files, that'll not be nice without >my agreement. Ok, he can use my files, if he sends 5 pounds for every >sold converter to UNICEF.<g> >Another thing, I'd like to say: >I read that utilities, like ST2BMP etc. are available on the web. I >never give my agreement for that. I handed this programs to a few people >(maybe 5), who helped me discovering the structure of the track object >files, with the obligation not to give them away, as I don't want to see >'new' tracks, like Daytona. Everyone promised me not to publish this >programs (!?) >One final info: >I'm now (since yesterday) trying to discover the structure of the N2 >files myself. >Cheers, >Gerhard Lingenberg

Yes!!!!!! Way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :):):):) !^NavFont02F00F40008MGC9HGF5CD7C -- 06/02/97 11:25 --------- Using: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2 from http://www.dvorak.com

Hi, Roberto! How about a NASCAR2 race some day through the net. Have you tried it before?? !^NavFont02F010B0007MGC2HHS49ED -- 06/02/97 11:27 --------- Using: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2 from http://www.dvorak.com

Atten: David Noonan David: Read with interest your comments about receiving payment for your efforts for your an N2 track converter. When N1 came out "Way back When" in late '94, many NASCAR enthusiasts set about the task of creating cars, files, FAQ's & utilities which others could enjoy. Loading these into CompuServe and other on-line services was at "That Time" "way Back When" the most effecient way to reach the largest volume of N1 enthusiasts. (the net was a desolate wasteland for N1 files at that time) Having been the "originator and creator" of the "Original IROC" N1 set, ACARS95, etc., etc., among many other files, created HOT demand in their day, and firece competition demanded only The Best an author could produce! Then some guy comes along, in '96 takes the files - and those of MANY other authors, places them on a CD, writes a rather "lame attempt at a book" about N1 (IMHO) and got something like 14.95US$ a copy. NEVER did the "author or "publisher" >Ever offer to re-imburse the files' creators for their efforts* and the "publisher" *balked at ANY hint of recourse. "Traditionally" Papy N1 & N2 based files or re-worked files were never charged for by their creators - those benefitting most were: - Papyrus (sold out to Sierra for 42 US$ Million, only for Sierra to be subsequently taken over by CUC); - a handful of CompuServe forum operators * * yes folks - forums ARE a commercial enterprise! - like boutiques in a mall! they Pay rent - I've been told by CIS - upwards of 10,000 US$ /Month, and share in the fees & on-line charges the fourm generates!! > the forum operators Never protected the INTEGRITY of file origination and this Drove a number of N1 files creators to quit the service, in effect, going "under ground". - the occasional "publisher" who took files, ideas from others (IMHO) assembled them together and made a commercial enterprise out of the distribution of these files (IMHO) - IRONICALLY these outfits taking these files COPYRIGHTED this material produced by others!! - phone and connect companies I OFTEN WONDER >>how many files by those long forogtten "file pioneers" (relative word in computer and N1 world) for their labour? these files - that exist on the Hard Drives of NASCAR racing sim enthusiasts the world over (your's, too PERHAPS????) without even so much as a HINT of gratitude toward the Original authors?! Many files were loaded & shuffled off in so many directions, with many Others' WRONGFULLY taking and receiving the credit for the files' creation - a number of whom I see on R.A.S. here now with internet pages and sites of their own! You say you need the $ $ $ to help develop the converter & to re-imburse for your time and effort(s). Why not try to enlist the efforts and co-operation of others' in creating and fulfilling that Fine Tradition of making the Best Possible Nascar Racing Sim files Possible - N/C - afterall, HUNDREDS who came before have done so!? And in doing so, perhaps re-kindle that fierce competition that once existed to PRODUCE the Best Possible NASCAR Sim files for ALL to enjoy as FREE WARE! regrettable! :-( Dave, The Hammer

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>>Hello everyone, >>some people asked me to write my opinion about Dave Noonan's converter. >>I wasn't informed about the things, because I was very busy in the last >>months and did not spend any hour with sim racing. I was also not able >>to answer all the e-mails (many) concerning my programs, PLEASE EXCUSE >>ME FOR THAT. >>I and all the others who helped me, like Nigel Pattinson, John Wallace, >>Doug Arnao, Neil Jedrzejewski, Marc Nelson and Robert Hilpert (I've to >>mention them again here, because I'm not the god of sim racing, like >>someone wrote) invested many hours without any payment. The reason I >>(we) decided not to charge for it, was to give something back. I >>downloaded many free nice car sets and utilities too. Besides that I'm >>not sure if that would be legal. (Someone from Papyrus told me that >>they've nothing against my free utilities.) >>I can understand that Dave requests for compensation, because I know >>that it took him many days (and nights) to build this program, but first >>of all does he pay for everything he downloads ? 2nd, compared with the >>price of the game itself , 20 pounds are a lot of money for a utility. >>If Trevor Kellaway, who wrote the great JAM2BMP program, had just >>charged 5 pounds, he'd be rich (Emh, I mean if everyone who is using it >>would pay him). 3rd, other people may now also want to charge for their >>work. If that's the case, I'll never upload something free too. I hope >>that's not the trend. 4th, Dave has not made new LP files for the >>tracks. If he suggests the use of my files, that'll not be nice without >>my agreement. Ok, he can use my files, if he sends 5 pounds for every >>sold converter to UNICEF.<g> >>Another thing, I'd like to say: >>I read that utilities, like ST2BMP etc. are available on the web. I >>never give my agreement for that. I handed this programs to a few people >>(maybe 5), who helped me discovering the structure of the track object >>files, with the obligation not to give them away, as I don't want to see >>'new' tracks, like Daytona. Everyone promised me not to publish this >>programs (!?) >>One final info: >>I'm now (since yesterday) trying to discover the structure of the N2 >>files myself. >>Cheers, >>Gerhard Lingenberg >I will try to be brief about Gerhard's posting, but I do want to rectify >some of what has been implied. >I wrote the converter on my own. After a few weeks of evenings & weekends I >finally took almost a month out of work to crack the problem. >The complexity of the program and the need for support is what motivated me >to ask for payment. I also did not want my work distributed on some >'freeware' basis packaged on CD for somebody else to benefit from. >There is a free version, the full converter can be ordered and is emailed >before I see any payment. On receiving payment I send out another version >which includes improved AI, tree objects etc. I think the AI in that >version is fine, I'll leave others to argue its merits. I do not think that >this method of selling is blatant commercialism. >All converter versions modify the RACE.LP file. On my web site I suggest >using the AI files from The Pits to 'improve' the Free version. I also >thought I had asked for and recieved permission to do this. I will remove >the offending lines. >The payment, which I cannot force out of anybody, is higher than it would >have been if I had not been working on my own and living in the UK. >I have sent out fragments of code to help others in their projects. >The converter does not include data files from Papyrus's products, which is >what I understood, probably incorrectly, to be the main problem. >I think it would be of greatest benefit to everybody to offer to cooperate >with me to produce a N2 to ICR2 converter, a sharing of the workload and >support for this project would mean it could be for free. >Lastly, I hope my tone has not been aggressive, let's not all degenerate >into a flame war over this. There are many more interesting topics >deserving of debate than this one. >Dave Noonan

The main problem is that, until today, almost every single piece of software utilities, cars, carsets, tracks, track enhancements, and so on on R.A.S. has been for free. It is this way to let everybody have a great racing experience. For the AI, they are far from good. On Cleveland, for instance, even using Gerhard LP files, two of the turns (#3 and one before the last (just before the pit entrance)) are almost impossible to do without almost stopping the car. I have done a quick convertion using Gerhard ICR2->N1 Cleveland convertion, and the track is great. I, personally, would never spent money on something that I am not 100% sure will meet what I am expecting. If you really have a improved version, upgrade your free one. You will probably receive more requests for the full version. And, if Gerhard is now working on a convertion himself, I can just applaud. Competition is teh key for great software. This is probably a stronger reason for David release an improved free version. Roberto Reboucas Sao Paulo, Brazil