Pathetic? Try NASCAR's red flag decision

Talk about a crappy decision. The track wasn't blocked, there was no reason to throw a red. If you can't clean it during a yellow, then the race ends under yellow. Talk about commie bastards running a show, this wins the bonehead of the weekend call. I can't stand some of the decisions these blockheads are making since engaging in the TV contract. "All for the sake of the show". Yuck. It's racing, not a show. Treat it that way. Mike

It's not like it really changed who won the race..... although there are a few Dale Jr. fans who kinda liked the red flag idea..... "Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Talk about a crappy decision. The track wasn't blocked, there was no > reason to throw a red. If you can't clean it during a yellow, then > the race ends under yellow. Talk about commie bastards running a > show, this wins the bonehead of the weekend call. > > I can't stand some of the decisions these blockheads are making since > engaging in the TV contract. "All for the sake of the show". Yuck. > It's racing, not a show. Treat it that way. > > Mike >

>It's not like it really changed who won the race..... although there are a >few Dale Jr. fans who kinda liked the red flag idea..... > So tell me - why did Jimmy(and Jeff Gordon when he won back to back) knock the PowerAde bottles off the car in victory lane? That seems like it's done to piss someone off... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

they have sponsorship deals with Gatorade ... "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >It's not like it really changed who won the race..... although there area > >few Dale Jr. fans who kinda liked the red flag idea..... > > > > So tell me - why did Jimmy(and Jeff Gordon when he won back to back) knockthe > PowerAde bottles off the car in victory lane? That seems like it's doneto

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> piss someone off... > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East

"Phillip Malphrus, Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > they have sponsorship deals with Gatorade . Powerade is the official Drink of Victory Lane.(they paid Nascar for this title) Powerade is owned by Coca Cola. Gatorade is the competing brand to Powerade. Gatorade is owned by Pepsi Cola. Both Jeff and Jimmy have sponsorship deals with Pepsi so they make sure the competing products are tossed. You'll notice Jeff has a 16oz bottle of Pepsi ready for every victory celebration. Even tho Coca Cola is the official drink of Nascar. Nascar gets money from both, neither has paid for exclusivity so both companies have a right to be there. However, THe NHRA is offically sponsored by Powerade and part of that contract states that No team, No Car and/or No driver and crew will have ANY drink product sponsorships except powerade. The penalty for having (say for example) a Coke patch on your driver's suit is quite severe. So either Coke needs to renogiate thier deals with Nascar or Pepsi needs to lighten up. Dave Henrie

Yes, they are. Powerade is owned by Coca-cola, while Gatorade is owned by Pepsi, whom just happen to sponsor said drivers. It's the politics of sponsorship... Very little NASCAR can really do about it since those companies keep racers going. Mike On 31 May 2004 03:24:34 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>>It's not like it really changed who won the race..... although there are a >>few Dale Jr. fans who kinda liked the red flag idea..... >> > >So tell me - why did Jimmy(and Jeff Gordon when he won back to back) knock the >PowerAde bottles off the car in victory lane? That seems like it's done to >piss someone off... > >Eldred

Mike Donnelly Jr wrote:

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> Talk about a crappy decision. The track wasn't blocked, there was no > reason to throw a red. If you can't clean it during a yellow, then > the race ends under yellow. Talk about commie bastards running a > show, this wins the bonehead of the weekend call. > > I can't stand some of the decisions these blockheads are making since > engaging in the TV contract. "All for the sake of the show". Yuck. > It's racing, not a show. Treat it that way.

NASCAR has never been about good racing. It has always been about the show. TV just made it worse.

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> Powerade is the official Drink of Victory Lane.(they paid Nascar for >this title) Powerade is owned by Coca Cola. > Gatorade is the competing brand to Powerade. Gatorade is owned by >Pepsi Cola. Both Jeff and Jimmy have sponsorship deals with Pepsi so >they make sure the competing products are tossed. You'll notice Jeff has >a 16oz bottle of Pepsi ready for every victory celebration. Even tho >Coca Cola is the official drink of Nascar. Nascar gets money from both, >neither has paid for exclusivity so both companies have a right to be >there.

I figured it had to deal with sponsorship, but I thought it was just Powerade vs. Pepsi. I didn't realize that Pepsi owned Gatorade, and Coke owned Powerade. So, Johnson wins the *Coca-Cola* 600, knocks the primary race sponsor's products out of shot in victory lane, and there's NO reprisal for that??? Unbelievable... Coca Cola should have a line in the rules that states, "The prize to the winner is x dollars. If Gordon or Johson win, the prize is x minus 30%." Their race, their rules...<g> Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

> So tell me - why did Jimmy(and Jeff Gordon when he won back to back) knockthe > PowerAde bottles off the car in victory lane? That seems like it's doneto > piss someone off... > > Eldred Powerade is a Coca-Cola product. Gatorade is Pepsi. So you'd be right! Tim http://www.2togo.net

Nascar needs to adopt green-white-checker, period. -Larry "Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Talk about a crappy decision. The track wasn't blocked, there was no > reason to throw a red. If you can't clean it during a yellow, then > the race ends under yellow. Talk about commie bastards running a > show, this wins the bonehead of the weekend call. > > I can't stand some of the decisions these blockheads are making since > engaging in the TV contract. "All for the sake of the show". Yuck. > It's racing, not a show. Treat it that way. > > Mike >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:zyNuc.708$Y21.107@lakeread02: > Nascar needs to adopt green-white-checker, period. > > -Larry > Why? They already have a perfectly good rule in place. rule # 2398.7 clearly states: Near the end of a Race if Dale Earnhardt Jr is leading, we will throw yellows and end the race under caution. If Dale Earnhardt Jr is NOT leading, we will stop the race via the red flag. Furthermore if DEJ wants to run under the yellow line to pass, that's ok with us. dave henrie

Next time Robby Gordon is on TV check out his blacked out Nextel Logo on his uniform....i love it. Neil "Tim Paullin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c9fsrd$4b7$[email hidden]... > > So tell me - why did Jimmy(and Jeff Gordon when he won back to back)knock

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> the > > PowerAde bottles off the car in victory lane? That seems like it's done > to > > piss someone off... > > > > Eldred > > Powerade is a Coca-Cola product. Gatorade is Pepsi. So you'd be right! > > Tim > http://www.2togo.net > >

You mean like the last Dega? Nice try. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:zyNuc.708$Y21.107@lakeread02: > > > Nascar needs to adopt green-white-checker, period. > > > > -Larry > > > > Why? They already have a perfectly good rule in place. > rule # 2398.7 clearly states: > Near the end of a Race if Dale Earnhardt Jr is leading, we will throw > yellows and end the race under caution. If Dale Earnhardt Jr is NOT > leading, we will stop the race via the red flag. Furthermore if DEJ wants > to run under the yellow line to pass, that's ok with us. > > dave henrie

No way. Let them race to the advertised distance. If the track is physically blocked, then the red flag is appropriate, otherwise, let it end in yellow. It's not the most enjoyable conclusion, but life isn't always enjoyable (particularlly when a ford is in the lead!). Mike On Mon, 31 May 2004 17:46:01 -0400, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Nascar needs to adopt green-white-checker, period. > >-Larry > >"Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Talk about a crappy decision. The track wasn't blocked, there was no >> reason to throw a red. If you can't clean it during a yellow, then >> the race ends under yellow. Talk about commie bastards running a >> show, this wins the bonehead of the weekend call. >> >> I can't stand some of the decisions these blockheads are making since >> engaging in the TV contract. "All for the sake of the show". Yuck. >> It's racing, not a show. Treat it that way. >> >> Mike >> >

The only right thing to do is get rid of the 'below the line' BS. It was a poorly thought out rule to start with and it's implimentation has been even worse. Mike On Mon, 31 May 2004 22:05:45 -0400, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I can't fault Jr, or Nascar, for the 'below the line' fiasco. What is he >supposed to do? At 190mph, hold where he is and get knocked off the race >track? > >It was a normal reaction. The press's reaction wasn't. > >-larry > >"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:zyNuc.708$Y21.107@lakeread02: >> >> > Nascar needs to adopt green-white-checker, period. >> > >> > -Larry >> > >> >> Why? They already have a perfectly good rule in place. >> rule # 2398.7 clearly states: >> Near the end of a Race if Dale Earnhardt Jr is leading, we will throw >> yellows and end the race under caution. If Dale Earnhardt Jr is NOT >> leading, we will stop the race via the red flag. Furthermore if DEJ wants >> to run under the yellow line to pass, that's ok with us. >> >> dave henrie >

I can't fault Jr, or Nascar, for the 'below the line' fiasco. What is he supposed to do? At 190mph, hold where he is and get knocked off the race track? It was a normal reaction. The press's reaction wasn't. -larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:zyNuc.708$Y21.107@lakeread02: > > > Nascar needs to adopt green-white-checker, period. > > > > -Larry > > > > Why? They already have a perfectly good rule in place. > rule # 2398.7 clearly states: > Near the end of a Race if Dale Earnhardt Jr is leading, we will throw > yellows and end the race under caution. If Dale Earnhardt Jr is NOT > leading, we will stop the race via the red flag. Furthermore if DEJ wants > to run under the yellow line to pass, that's ok with us. > > dave henrie

Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> The only right thing to do is get rid of the 'below the line' BS. It > was a poorly thought out rule to start with and it's implimentation > has been even worse. > > Mike > > On Mon, 31 May 2004 22:05:45 -0400, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>I can't fault Jr, or Nascar, for the 'below the line' fiasco. What is >>he supposed to do? At 190mph, hold where he is and get knocked off >>the race track? >> >>It was a normal reaction. The press's reaction wasn't. >> >>-larry

Who was it...the same year Jr dove under to pass for the lead, took avoiding action only and got sent to the penalty box. Ward Burton maybe... It's like Michael Jordan driving down the lane in Basketball against a Rookie...ya think they'd ever call charging on MJ? :) dh

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>> >>"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>news:[email hidden]... >>> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:zyNuc.708$Y21.107@lakeread02: >>> >>> > Nascar needs to adopt green-white-checker, period. >>> > >>> > -Larry >>> > >>> >>> Why? They already have a perfectly good rule in place. >>> rule # 2398.7 clearly states: >>> Near the end of a Race if Dale Earnhardt Jr is leading, we will >>> throw >>> yellows and end the race under caution. If Dale Earnhardt Jr is NOT >>> leading, we will stop the race via the red flag. Furthermore if DEJ >>> wants to run under the yellow line to pass, that's ok with us. >>> >>> dave henrie >> > >

On Mon, 31 May 2004 22:30:07 -0500, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> wrote in >news:[email hidden]: > >> The only right thing to do is get rid of the 'below the line' BS. It >> was a poorly thought out rule to start with and it's implimentation >> has been even worse. >> >> Mike >> >> On Mon, 31 May 2004 22:05:45 -0400, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>>I can't fault Jr, or Nascar, for the 'below the line' fiasco. What is >>>he supposed to do? At 190mph, hold where he is and get knocked off >>>the race track? >>> >>>It was a normal reaction. The press's reaction wasn't. >>> >>>-larry > > Who was it...the same year Jr dove under to pass for the lead, took >avoiding action only and got sent to the penalty box. Ward Burton >maybe... > It's like Michael Jordan driving down the lane in Basketball against a >Rookie...ya think they'd ever call charging on MJ? :) >dh

Unlikely, but I suppose it has happened. Still, the best thing to do is get rid of the stupid rule. It hasn't helped and it's really diminished my enthusiasm (such as it was) for restrictor plate racing. Mike

>No way. Let them race to the advertised distance. If the track is >physically blocked, then the red flag is appropriate, otherwise, let >it end in yellow. Agreed. At least everyone knows immediately when the yellow flies who wins. There's no room for interpretation. Now it's a total crapshoot, prompting conspiracy theories depending on who's in the lead, when the flag comes out, etc. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

"Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The only right thing to do is get rid of the 'below the line' BS. It > was a poorly thought out rule to start with and it's implimentation > has been even worse. OK, I'll agree, remove the below the line rule and put a cement wall in place of the yellow line.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Powerade is the official Drink of Victory Lane.(they paid Nascar for > >this title) Powerade is owned by Coca Cola. > > Gatorade is the competing brand to Powerade. Gatorade is owned by > >Pepsi Cola. Both Jeff and Jimmy have sponsorship deals with Pepsi so > >they make sure the competing products are tossed. You'll notice Jeff has > >a 16oz bottle of Pepsi ready for every victory celebration. Even tho > >Coca Cola is the official drink of Nascar. Nascar gets money from both, > >neither has paid for exclusivity so both companies have a right to be > >there. > > I figured it had to deal with sponsorship, but I thought it was just

Powerade

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> vs. Pepsi. I didn't realize that Pepsi owned Gatorade, and Coke owned > Powerade. > > So, Johnson wins the *Coca-Cola* 600, knocks the primary race sponsor's > products out of shot in victory lane, and there's NO reprisal for that??? > Unbelievable... > > Coca Cola should have a line in the rules that states, "The prize to the

winner > is x dollars. If Gordon or Johson win, the prize is x minus 30%." Theirrace, > their rules...<g> > > Eldred According to Dave Despain's explaination on Wind Tunnel, Powerade's deal stipulates that the bottles have to "appear" in Victory Lane. It does not say that the bottles have to stay there for any certain length of time. Don

No, that would be going from bad to worse. If they really want to fix restrictor plate racing, they'd knock the banking down to about 20 degrees, give or take and not use the plates. You'd still get some very fast cars, but they'd have to lift going into the turns. Mike On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:11:28 GMT, "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> The only right thing to do is get rid of the 'below the line' BS. It >> was a poorly thought out rule to start with and it's implimentation >> has been even worse. > >OK, I'll agree, remove the below the line rule and put a cement wall in >place of the yellow line. >

>According to Dave Despain's explaination on Wind Tunnel, Powerade's deal >stipulates that the bottles have to "appear" in Victory Lane. It does not >say that the bottles have to stay there for any certain length of time. So I'm guessing that Pepsi's lawyers went over that contract with a fine-toothed comb.. They need to re-write that contract.<g> Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

On 01 Jun 2004 15:26:14 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Agreed. At least everyone knows immediately when the yellow flies who wins. >There's no room for interpretation. Now it's a total crapshoot, prompting >conspiracy theories depending on who's in the lead, when the flag comes out, >etc. Where does the conspiracy theory come into play? Nascar makes it known before the race begins the latest the red will fly to clean up a late race yellow. It seems to me they have conformed to the rules completely, regardless of who is leading. From a fans point of view....tickets, $500....hotels, $300....gas and food, $300.....ending under green, priceless.

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>On 01 Jun 2004 15:26:14 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>Agreed. At least everyone knows immediately when the yellow flies who wins. > >>There's no room for interpretation. Now it's a total crapshoot, prompting >>conspiracy theories depending on who's in the lead, when the flag comes out, >>etc. > >Where does the conspiracy theory come into play?

You're new here, aren't you? :-) Seriously, it seems that every race with a crash near the end, some people like to argue the point. If they throw the red flag, some people think it's so that someone other than the leader could win. If they *don't* throw the flag, some people think it's so that the leader at the time couldn't be caught in the remaining laps. >Nascar makes it known >before the race begins the latest the red will fly to clean up a late >race yellow. It seems to me they have conformed to the rules >completely, regardless of who is leading. Actually, I didn't realize that the lap was determined BEFORE the race until this last telecast. It appeared to be an arbitrary decision, made at the time of the incident. The fact that it always seemed to be a different number every time didn't help. But if it's decided beforehand, why are the announcers usually confused by this? You'd think *they* would know the situation. > >From a fans point of view....tickets, $500....hotels, $300....gas and >food, $300.....ending under green, priceless. I think that the race could end under yellow and not invalidate the previous x number of laps. As a fan, I don't think it would bother me too much. As a driver, DEFINITELY. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

On 03 Jun 2004 02:24:32 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Actually, I didn't realize that the lap was determined BEFORE the race until >this last telecast. It appeared to be an arbitrary decision, made at the time >of the incident. The fact that it always seemed to be a different number every >time didn't help. >But if it's decided beforehand, why are the announcers usually confused by >this? You'd think *they* would know the situation. They do, and I've heard it mentioned many times. >I think that the race could end under yellow and not invalidate the previous x >number of laps. As a fan, I don't think it would bother me too much. As a >driver, DEFINITELY. I've been to many races over the years. Lately I only attend the night event at Bristol each year. Trust me, it takes a major financial committment to attend a Nascar weekend. I'd prefer not to spend a grand to see the race, only to have it end under yellow because some backmarker had a crash racing for 31st position. This rule was implemented because Nascar heard the complaints of the fans who want the race to end under green. There are certain times I don't agree with the rule....at the plate tracks for example. A 2 lap dash to the finish at Daytona or Talladega, while exciting for the fans, can have serious consequences for the drivers who don't use good judgement in a trophy dash type situation. But Nascar feels that this rule helps them put on a better show, and for the most part, I agree with them.

>>But if it's decided beforehand, why are the announcers usually confused by >>this? You'd think *they* would know the situation. > >They do, and I've heard it mentioned many times. I'd heard them mention a certain lap, but I'd never heard them say that particular lap was decided beforehand. This was the first time I'd heard that explanation. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East