Linear Steering - Why leave it out?

This may sound petty but at least it's not about the N2 patch (that I've had no problems with BTW)!! I'm a fan of race games - sims and arcade. My PC is almost entirely built around these things: P200, Rendition, Thrustmaster T2 and ACM card (had to get ACM for I'76). That's not an inconsiderate amount of moolah spent in pursuit of my hobby. To the point- Why do software houses produce auto racing games without an option for linear steering? Now Papyrus, Microprose and, amazingly, Microsoft seem to be aware that 'race car controllers' exist and cater for them accordingly, but I'm amazed that other softcos ignore them. I would have thought that people crazy enough to spend 130 pounds on a wheel and pedal set for their computer (like me) would be prime targets. How hard could it be, at the very least, to include joystick sensitivity settings (like MTM)? I would have bought Screamer, Screamer 2 and NFS if they'd supported my controller, but I'm not going back to keys or stick now that I have experienced the magic that is N2+T2. The setup screen for the Screamer demo even has a (bad) picture of a T2 in the background. And what the hell is that thing in the (demo) Daytona (sic) USA controller selection area? A Saturn controller? On a PC game?? Lastly, why does I'76 say that it supports T2 on the box? IT DOESN'T! There is a difference between 'recognising signals received from' and 'supporting' an input device. I am not happy. A game with so much potential gathering dust. Activision seem to be patching it like there's no tomorrow so maybe there's hope for linear steering yet. I've tried the trick of calibrating smaller wheel movements, but it still isn't really acceptable. With a wheel you -need- that ability to finely adjust your line (even in arcade games), to have decent turn in. Anything else feels less like rack and pinion and more like *** band and chewing gum. Does anyone else feel the same? I'd like to know if I'm alone in the world on this subject before I mail Activision. Hoping for a response, Mark Reading, UK

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>Subject: Linear Steering - Why leave it out? >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:22:22 +0100 >Why do software houses produce auto racing games without an option for >linear steering? >I would have bought Screamer, Screamer 2 and NFS if they'd supported my >controller, but I'm not going back to keys or stick now that I have >experienced the magic that is N2+T2.

. With a wheel you -need- that ability to No your not alone. I've griped about this for a long time. It was my enjoyment of NFS that movtivated me to spend the money for a ECC wheel/pedal system. What a huge dissapointment NFS turned out to be with a wheel, because of it's nonadjustable non-linear steering. Suddenly I ceased to play NFS, and Nascar, Indycar, and F1GP came to life. I will NEVER repeat NEVER, buy another drive sim or game that doesn't PROPERLY support a wheel/pedal system. Don Scurlock Vancouver B.C.

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> This may sound petty but at least it's not about the N2 patch (that I've > had no problems with BTW)!! > I'm a fan of race games - sims and arcade. > My PC is almost entirely built around these things: P200, Rendition, > Thrustmaster T2 and ACM card (had to get ACM for I'76). That's not an > inconsiderate amount of moolah spent in pursuit of my hobby. > To the point- > Why do software houses produce auto racing games without an option for > linear steering? > Now Papyrus, Microprose and, amazingly, Microsoft seem to be aware that > 'race car controllers' exist and cater for them accordingly, but I'm > amazed that other softcos ignore them. I would have thought that people > crazy enough to spend 130 pounds on a wheel and pedal set for their > computer (like me) would be prime targets. > How hard could it be, at the very least, to include joystick sensitivity > settings (like MTM)? > I would have bought Screamer, Screamer 2 and NFS if they'd supported my > controller, but I'm not going back to keys or stick now that I have > experienced the magic that is N2+T2. The setup screen for the Screamer > demo even has a (bad) picture of a T2 in the background. And what the > hell is that thing in the (demo) Daytona (sic) USA controller selection > area? A Saturn controller? On a PC game?? > Lastly, why does I'76 say that it supports T2 on the box? IT DOESN'T! > There is a difference between 'recognising signals received from' and > 'supporting' an input device. I am not happy. A game with so much > potential gathering dust. Activision seem to be patching it like > there's no tomorrow so maybe there's hope for linear steering yet. > I've tried the trick of calibrating smaller wheel movements, but it > still isn't really acceptable. With a wheel you -need- that ability to > finely adjust your line (even in arcade games), to have decent turn in. > Anything else feels less like rack and pinion and more like *** band > and chewing gum. > Does anyone else feel the same? > I'd like to know if I'm alone in the world on this subject before I mail > Activision. > Hoping for a response, > Mark > Reading, UK

You are right on the money here. What is the point of a driving game that doesn't drive like a real car? It's ludicrous. The people who are making these games must drive with joysticks. Dana Bailes BTW, NFS does support linear steering, I don't think NFS2 does though.

<snip> <snip> I had a dialog with Jim S. from Papyrus on this exact point. Nascar 1 had true linear steering. Nascar 2 does not. The reason for this is because of the limitations of the commercial wheels available. There are no commercial wheels that have more than about 270 degrees of "turn" lock to lock. This limits the range of turn that users have and doesn't allow for realistic steering without too much sensitivity. I built a wheel with two turns lock to lock, using gears from the wheel shaft to the potentiometer. (actually the lock is adjustable from 0 to about ten turns) I have it set so I can easily change gear ratios also. I use a 3:1 ratio mostly. I try to set it up so that the wheel is turned about a quarter turn through the corner at all tracks. That is about where the actual Winston Cup cars are set if you notice when watching an in-car view on TV. Using Nascar 1 I can set the wheel lock on the car to 30 degrees and the car is drivable on all tracks. Can do a "U" turn at 'Dega in a lane and a half. Using Nascar 2 the physical (???) limit in the car is about 12 degrees of actual turn of the wheels on the simulated car. Any adjustment over 12 degrees is just adjusting the sensitivity. You can test this by doing slow "U" turns in a wide place on any track using different settings. I can understand Papyrus' position here, they have to make it usable in a lot of different hardware situations. I do wish they would put in a few more options on the configuration menu. Hope this helps explain some of the reasons/problems. Ralph Williams /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ /Ralph Williams My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\ /----------------------------------------------------------------------\

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> >Dana Bailes > >BTW, NFS does support linear steering, I don't think NFS2 does though. > I had a dialog with Jim S. from Papyrus on this exact point. Nascar 1 had > true linear steering. Nascar 2 does not. The reason for this is because of > the limitations of the commercial wheels available. There are no > commercial wheels that have more than about 270 degrees of "turn" lock > to lock. This limits the range of turn that users have and doesn't allow for > realistic steering without too much sensitivity. > I built a wheel with two turns lock to lock, using gears from the wheel shaft > to the potentiometer. (actually the lock is adjustable from 0 to about ten turns) > I have it set so I can easily change gear ratios also. I use a 3:1 ratio mostly. > I try to set it up so that the wheel is turned about a quarter turn through the > corner at all tracks. That is about where the actual Winston Cup cars are > set if you notice when watching an in-car view on TV. > Using Nascar 1 I can set the wheel lock on the car to 30 degrees and the car is > drivable on all tracks. Can do a "U" turn at 'Dega in a lane and a half. > Using Nascar 2 the physical (???) limit in the car is about 12 degrees of actual > turn of the wheels on the simulated car. Any adjustment over 12 degrees is just > adjusting the sensitivity. You can test this by doing slow "U" turns in a wide > place on any track using different settings. > I can understand Papyrus' position here, they have to make it usable in a lot > of different hardware situations. I do wish they would put in a few more options > on the configuration menu. > Hope this helps explain some of the reasons/problems. > Ralph Williams

I guess I meant proportional steering, not linear steering. All Papyrus sims have proportional steering, while most other do not. Most use digital steering with simulated proportional to give the car its "feel". With wheels becoming so popular now it is rediculous for them not to be supported in an analog mode. Dana Bailes

wow guys get with it

>You are right on the money here. What is the point of a driving game >that doesn't drive like a real car? It's ludicrous. The people who are >making these games must drive with joysticks. >Dana Bailes >BTW, NFS does support linear steering, I don't think NFS2 does though. I *thought* I had my T1 working with NFS before. I just can't get the sound to work after switching to win95. SB16 card. Any suggestions?<g> ________ Eldred Pickett e-mail address altered to deter spammers - remove the '*' to reply Put your message in a modem - and throw it into the ***-sea...