HAWAII DRIVERS - Its Testing not Racing on Hawaii

Drivers: The IVGA does not appove of cheating, but is testing cheating?? All of this whinning about super performance on hawaii is a waste of time. If you believe that a certain driver has extraordinary performance than dont race with him. The 1st thing you must remember is that the HAWAII system is a beta test enviroment. It's not perfect, its a test bed and its primary purpose is for testing, not RACING. When the NRO is released than all that PAPYRUS has learned both good and bad will be implemented as to NOT DISHONOR NASCAR. Believe when NASCAR tells PAPYRUS to jump and make this perfect they listen and do what they are told. Now lets all re-read the section that ED MARTIN, remember that guy who used to email us. This section came from his newsletter dated NRL_0796.txt. Please read this letter and I will give you my editorial that will follow it.. Now Ed Martin said: ============================================================================ As a further measure, we have created a series of ID's which will be used by various people (both internal and external to Papyrus/Sierra, NASCAR and/or the NRL) to test certain things including anti-hacking measures. In the past, we have been doing this covertly. Now, we will be doing it overtly. These ID's are "TESTER##". If you see these ID's online, it is someone working for/with us who is testing new code on the client and/or server. As such, you might see some "extraordinary" behavior in terms of driving performance. Rest assured, these testers will have no impact on your skill level. When the results of any event are tabulated, it will be done as if the TESTER## driver was never in the race. =========================================================================== Ok, what that means is that PAPYRUS would be supplying some of its beta testers with lots of methods to achieve super performance. These methods could be: Fractional Garages programs Software TSR's and /or Hardware. Control Configurations Single versus multi-pot control devices!!! GameCards - like the R&R I use that cost me over $250.00!!! etc. etc. etc. Now PAPYRUS might come back and deny this, but remember in the July 1996 newsletters they said they were going to do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that PAPYRUS has let the cat out of the bag or redistribted these methods amongst some of thier testers, the questions is do the testers use or tell anyone of these techniques for game play. Of Course I commented about this 6 months ago and got flamed. Now maybe some of the roasters can see the picture and problem more closely. I just hope that fixes are made and tricks are forgotten before the NRO starts. BEFORE YOU FLAME ME REMEMBER IT WAS ED MARTIN THAT SAID" YOU MIGHT SEE SOME EXTRAORDINARY BEHAVIOR AND THAT PAPYRUS WOULD BE TESTING OVERTLY!!!" and it was PAPYRUS that would supply this knowledege to the priveledged BETA TESTERS!! Don Wilshe, IVGA (941) 945-2587 PS. PAPYRUS COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL 101 is SPOKEN HERE!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I missed something that you saw, Don. Where does it say that Papyrus provided the means with which to cheat? It says to me, that Papyrus is testing their cheat detection software. The people that were testing were already hacking the system on their own. Why would Papyrus provide the hacks to the general public, when they themselves could duplicate them in-house and resolve it there. Papyrus wanted to test their detection software against hacks that they weren't aware of or didn't want to spend the time creating. IMHO Terry

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> guy who used to email us. This section came from his newsletter dated > NRL_0796.txt. Please read this letter and I will give you my editorial > that will follow it.. Now Ed Martin said: > ============================================================================ > As a further measure, we have created a series of ID's which will be > used by > various people (both internal and external to Papyrus/Sierra, NASCAR > and/or > the NRL) to test certain things including anti-hacking measures. In the > past, we have been doing this covertly. Now, we will be doing it > overtly. > These ID's are "TESTER##". If you see these ID's online, it is someone > working for/with us who is testing new code on the client and/or > server. > As such, you might see some "extraordinary" behavior in terms of driving > performance. Rest assured, these testers will have no impact on your > skill > level. When the results of any event are tabulated, it will be done as > if > the TESTER## driver was never in the race. > =========================================================================== > Ok, what that means is that PAPYRUS would be supplying some of its beta > testers > with lots of methods to achieve super performance. These methods could > be: > Fractional Garages programs > Software TSR's > and /or Hardware. > Control Configurations > Single versus multi-pot control devices!!! > GameCards - like the R&R I use that cost me over $250.00!!! > etc. etc. etc. > Now PAPYRUS might come back and deny this, but remember in the July > 1996 newsletters they said they were going to do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Now that PAPYRUS has let the cat out of the bag or redistribted these > methods amongst some of thier testers, the questions is do the testers > use or tell anyone of these techniques for game play. > Of Course I commented about this 6 months ago and got flamed. Now maybe > some of the roasters can see the picture and problem more closely. > I just hope that fixes are made and tricks are forgotten before the NRO > starts. > BEFORE YOU FLAME ME REMEMBER IT WAS ED MARTIN THAT SAID" YOU MIGHT SEE > SOME EXTRAORDINARY BEHAVIOR AND THAT PAPYRUS WOULD BE TESTING > OVERTLY!!!" > and it was PAPYRUS that would supply this knowledege to the > priveledged BETA TESTERS!! > Don Wilshe, IVGA > (941) 945-2587 > PS. PAPYRUS COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL 101 is SPOKEN HERE!!!!!!!!!!

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> Drivers: > The IVGA does not appove of cheating, but is testing cheating?? > All of this whinning about super performance on hawaii is a waste of > time. > If you believe that a certain driver has extraordinary performance than > dont race with him. The 1st thing you must remember is that the HAWAII > system is a beta test enviroment. It's not perfect, its a test bed > and its primary purpose is for testing, not RACING. > When the NRO is released than all that PAPYRUS has learned both good and > bad will be implemented as to NOT DISHONOR NASCAR. Believe when NASCAR > tells PAPYRUS to jump and make this perfect they listen and do what they > are told. Now lets all re-read the section that ED MARTIN, remember > that > guy who used to email us. This section came from his newsletter dated > NRL_0796.txt. Please read this letter and I will give you my editorial > that will follow it.. Now Ed Martin said: > ============================================================================ > As a further measure, we have created a series of ID's which will be > used by > various people (both internal and external to Papyrus/Sierra, NASCAR > and/or > the NRL) to test certain things including anti-hacking measures. In the > past, we have been doing this covertly. Now, we will be doing it > overtly. > These ID's are "TESTER##". If you see these ID's online, it is someone > working for/with us who is testing new code on the client and/or > server. > As such, you might see some "extraordinary" behavior in terms of driving > performance. Rest assured, these testers will have no impact on your > skill > level. When the results of any event are tabulated, it will be done as > if > the TESTER## driver was never in the race. > =========================================================================== > Ok, what that means is that PAPYRUS would be supplying some of its beta > testers > with lots of methods to achieve super performance. These methods could > be: > Fractional Garages programs > Software TSR's > and /or Hardware. > Control Configurations > Single versus multi-pot control devices!!! > GameCards - like the R&R I use that cost me over $250.00!!! > etc. etc. etc. > Now PAPYRUS might come back and deny this, but remember in the July > 1996 newsletters they said they were going to do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Now that PAPYRUS has let the cat out of the bag or redistribted these > methods amongst some of thier testers, the questions is do the testers > use or tell anyone of these techniques for game play. > Of Course I commented about this 6 months ago and got flamed. Now maybe > some of the roasters can see the picture and problem more closely. > I just hope that fixes are made and tricks are forgotten before the NRO > starts. > BEFORE YOU FLAME ME REMEMBER IT WAS ED MARTIN THAT SAID" YOU MIGHT SEE > SOME EXTRAORDINARY BEHAVIOR AND THAT PAPYRUS WOULD BE TESTING > OVERTLY!!!" > and it was PAPYRUS that would supply this knowledege to the > priveledged BETA TESTERS!! > Don Wilshe, IVGA > (941) 945-2587 > PS. PAPYRUS COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL 101 is SPOKEN HERE!!!!!!!!!!

Excuse me Don but you say that hawaii is not racing and that IVGA doesnt approve of cheating?????? You make no sense you say "testing is cheating" so you and your IVGA goofs are not on there to race but to practice your cheating skills because obvisiously you are not on there like a majority of us are... that is to race against drivers who are fast and respectable and enjoy the thrill of legal competition.i have been on Hawaii for almost a year now and the only time i hear of trouble it always has IVGA around it.I think the IVGA is a joke you have guys i believe are respectable,so dont get me wrong but you are a joke .You always seem to make everything you do as if you are the "God" of racing and i think if i remeber right you had your members send you there setups to make sure they werent corrupt which then gave you access to all the fast setups??????I could be wrong but i am pretty sure i am right on this.I still cant believe that you say Hawaii is a test bed and is not racing... Man i just dont understand you.Sure its the test bed for the NRO but we have to race and get a skill level to get into the upper level in NRO so if you jokers want to test your Illegal setups to gain so be it but Most of are on Hawaii to race.BTW one other thing I have raced against your buddy Huggins and found him to be clean but i was amazed at the fact that at a Dover race recently,like in the last 2 weeks, he caught me at Dover in 2 laps after being 5 secs back and i was running speeds in the the hi 159's and lo 160's so go figure.When he caught me he was running the same speeds hhhmmmm... must have been on there Testing huh!.

: Drivers: : : The IVGA does not appove of cheating, but is testing cheating?? : : All of this whinning about super performance on hawaii is a waste of : time. : If you believe that a certain driver has extraordinary performance than : dont race with him. The 1st thing you must remember is that the HAWAII : system is a beta test enviroment. It's not perfect, its a test bed : and its primary purpose is for testing, not RACING. : : When the NRO is released than all that PAPYRUS has learned both good and : bad will be implemented as to NOT DISHONOR NASCAR. Believe when NASCAR : tells PAPYRUS to jump and make this perfect they listen and do what they : are told. Now lets all re-read the section that ED MARTIN, remember : that : guy who used to email us. This section came from his newsletter dated : NRL_0796.txt. Please read this letter and I will give you my editorial : that will follow it.. Now Ed Martin said: : : ============================================================================ : As a further measure, we have created a series of ID's which will be : used by : various people (both internal and external to Papyrus/Sierra, NASCAR : and/or : the NRL) to test certain things including anti-hacking measures. In the : past, we have been doing this covertly. Now, we will be doing it : overtly. : These ID's are "TESTER##". If you see these ID's online, it is someone : working for/with us who is testing new code on the client and/or : server. : As such, you might see some "extraordinary" behavior in terms of driving : performance. Rest assured, these testers will have no impact on your : skill : level. When the results of any event are tabulated, it will be done as : if : the TESTER## driver was never in the race. : =========================================================================== : : Ok, what that means is that PAPYRUS would be supplying some of its beta : testers : with lots of methods to achieve super performance. These methods could : be: : : Fractional Garages programs : Software TSR's : and /or Hardware. : Control Configurations : Single versus multi-pot control devices!!! : GameCards - like the R&R I use that cost me over $250.00!!! : etc. etc. etc. : : Now PAPYRUS might come back and deny this, but remember in the July : 1996 newsletters they said they were going to do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : : Now that PAPYRUS has let the cat out of the bag or redistribted these : methods amongst some of thier testers, the questions is do the testers : use or tell anyone of these techniques for game play. : : Of Course I commented about this 6 months ago and got flamed. Now maybe : some of the roasters can see the picture and problem more closely. : I just hope that fixes are made and tricks are forgotten before the NRO : starts. : : BEFORE YOU FLAME ME REMEMBER IT WAS ED MARTIN THAT SAID" YOU MIGHT SEE : SOME EXTRAORDINARY BEHAVIOR AND THAT PAPYRUS WOULD BE TESTING : OVERTLY!!!" : and it was PAPYRUS that would supply this knowledege to the : priveledged BETA TESTERS!! : : Don Wilshe, IVGA : (941) 945-2587 : : PS. PAPYRUS COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL 101 is SPOKEN HERE!!!!!!!!!! Don, Is it me or do you have something against Papyrus??? If so, what did they do to you to make you so mad all of the time? I think that what they are doing is just fine and it has to be done. I would be willing to be that the beta testers will not be allowed to compete in the NRL anyways, you might want to check into that fact before you start assuming that these testers are going to be cheating in the NRL. Don, take it easy, the IVGA is great and you did a great job with it, I just don't think that anyone benefits from others throwing accusations back and forth. Just my .02 Regards, Todd

>All of this whinning about super performance on hawaii is a waste of >time. If you believe that a certain driver has extraordinary >performance than dont race with him. Unfortunately, it may take you a while to figure out that he ain't just an awesome driver in your league. Meanwhile you've spent a bunch of time and effort competing with a computer and code rather than RACING with a MAN which is a waste of time to me! It's a prototype. You can race there too. It's works out great if you happen to run into a group of guys with some honor and integrity ;-) Ok, what that means is that people will be using IDs beginning TESTER to test cheats, counter measures etc... This is good. They are immediately recognized. I've never had a problem seeing TESTER## run supernatural laps. I wouldn't expect TESTER## to be joining leagues!!! The TESTER##s are/were helping to make NRO better. Guys who use the the same talents secretly are cheats and should be exposed as such. They won't deny it. I'm sure they won't agree with your interpetation either. Gets clearer every day! Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

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> Drivers: > The IVGA does not appove of cheating, but is testing cheating?? > All of this whinning about super performance on hawaii is a waste of > time. > If you believe that a certain driver has extraordinary performance than > dont race with him. The 1st thing you must remember is that the HAWAII > system is a beta test enviroment. It's not perfect, its a test bed > and its primary purpose is for testing, not RACING.

Don, Don, Don......Geeez.......you really gotta think about altering the medication level man....either more or less, I'm not sure which way would be better, but you're starting to babble again, and it's not nearly as funny nowadays as it use to be. I can understand y'all being pissed off about having to grow up in Allegan and all, probably got your ass kicked on the way to school most every day, and lost yer lunch money alot, but LET IT GO MAN!!! It's 40 + years later now, and I'd bet that none of us here in HAWAII had anything to do with your rotten childhood. It just aint healthy man to get so damn much pleasure out of bursting everybodys bubble, and tearing everything down. YOU NEED HELP! And as far as your buddy Huggins is concerned (and any other of your cheating/hacking brethren that I aint had the misfortune to run across yet), a man that would cheat others that he's befriended, just because they cant see his face, or get to him without a half days drive, is a VERY small man indeed. This whole thing certainly brings to mind the old saying "birds of a feather flock together" or is that " honor among thieves"? In the replay I have with your hacker buddy in it, it dont say "TESTER1", it says "rhuggins". The difference here that you seem completely unable to distinguish is that if he had been testing, he should have been man enough to tell us up front that he was using an enhanced system instead of sneaking around on the track using his "turbo" button to gain MAJOR ground on the competition, without them having a clue what the hell was going on. This kind of person is also capable of cheating on his wife and stealing from his employer and friends. And the really sad thing is that, that kind of person can justify that type of behavior to themselves, and live without guilt, where the average man with scruples would have sleepless nights on end. My suggestion to you Don is to GET LOST. You're like the Bruton Smith of the virtual world, and your bitterness and vindictiveness at not being the star at center stage here is really getting annoying. I suggest you try and resolve your childhood problems and then get on with your life somewhere else......and remember......you cant go home again! geeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz............................ I'd like to go on, but if I do, I'll have to up MY medication too<g>. tom 1997" 8 8 8 8 Owner/Driver of the Kingsford 8888888 8888888 Charcoal Monte Carlo. 8 8 8 8 3rd Coast Racing runs with NIGHT OWLS 8888888 8888888 http://www.synapse.net/~crankstr/nightowl/nightowl.htm

There is still time Don, to catch that UFO flying behind Hale-Bopp. ============================================================================ ===========================================================================

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> > Drivers: > > The IVGA does not appove of cheating, but is testing cheating?? > > All of this whinning about super performance on hawaii is a waste of > > time. > > If you believe that a certain driver has extraordinary performance than > > dont race with him. The 1st thing you must remember is that the HAWAII > > system is a beta test enviroment. It's not perfect, its a test bed > > and its primary purpose is for testing, not RACING. > Don, Don, Don......Geeez.......you really gotta think about altering > the medication level man....either more or less, I'm not sure which way > would be better, but you're starting to babble again, and it's not nearly > as funny nowadays as it use to be. I can understand y'all being pissed > off about having to grow up in Allegan and all, probably got your ass > kicked on the way to school most every day, and lost yer lunch money > alot, but LET IT GO MAN!!! It's 40 + years later now, and I'd bet that > none of us here in HAWAII had anything to do with your rotten childhood. > It just aint healthy man to get so damn much pleasure out of bursting > everybodys bubble, and tearing everything down. YOU NEED HELP! > And as far as your buddy Huggins is concerned (and any other of your > cheating/hacking brethren that I aint had the misfortune to run across > yet), a man that would cheat others that he's befriended, just because > they cant see his face, or get to him without a half days drive, is a > VERY small man indeed. This whole thing certainly brings to mind the old > saying "birds of a feather flock together" or is that " honor among > thieves"? In the replay I have with your hacker buddy in it, it dont say > "TESTER1", it says "rhuggins". The difference here that you seem > completely unable to distinguish is that if he had been testing, he > should have been man enough to tell us up front that he was using an > enhanced system instead of sneaking around on the track using his "turbo" > button to gain MAJOR ground on the competition, without them having a > clue what the hell was going on. This kind of person is also capable of > cheating on his wife and stealing from his employer and friends. And the > really sad thing is that, that kind of person can justify that type of > behavior to themselves, and live without guilt, where the average man > with scruples would have sleepless nights on end. > My suggestion to you Don is to GET LOST. You're like the Bruton > Smith of the virtual world, and your bitterness and vindictiveness at not > being the star at center stage here is really getting annoying. I suggest > you try and resolve your childhood problems and then get on with your > life somewhere else......and remember......you cant go home again! > geeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz............................ > I'd like to go on, but if I do, I'll have to up MY medication > too<g>. > tom > 1997" 8 8 8 8 > Owner/Driver of the Kingsford 8888888 8888888 > Charcoal Monte Carlo. 8 8 8 8 > 3rd Coast Racing runs with NIGHT OWLS 8888888 8888888 > http://www.synapse.net/~crankstr/nightowl/nightowl.htm

Wow this news thang is kind of cool. Anyway Last Night a very very good hawaii racer asked me if I was the IVGA guy! I just wanted to clarify this for the people who read this thing so closely. I picked up N1 in june 1996. I had bought my first computer that same month as I had learned to surf at work and was now hooked on the web. I used to drop 5 bucks a week on Sega Daytona (played and won at the grand opening of Race Rock on the 8 man setup they have <g>). So I wondered isnt there a NASCAR game I can get for my PC and race for free? Thats how I got N1. Then one day I thought, I wonder if there is some N1 shit on the web? Duhhhhhhhhhhh. Thats how I found NASS96. I joined the WC division because, hey, Im a WC fan! BIG mistake!!!. I couldnt run with them no way no how. I found a new league called ISCCS that used a software package to prevent cheating. I didnt know that anyone was cheating in offline leagues to begin with but it sounded like a good idea, and it was. After some installation Nightmares, I got it to work and it was very slick. As part of joining ISCCS I HAD to join IVGA. So I did #4302! When the first IVGA flap occured IVGA pulled back thier software and they cancelled the ISCCS. I was very dissapointed. I had just got bumped up to the pro division and was clinging to the top 10. I ran in the BGN division of NASS96 STT and finished 6th. Guesss what? The person who beat me for 5th had over 25% yellow flags and damage supposedly on, no DNFS and several wins in his own race. I think the guys who started ISCCS were correct that the IVGA software helped the integrity of off line racing. This league is going to reform under the name NSRA if anyone is interested. Was the league director stealing my setups or something from my encrypted results file? Maybe I dont know that much about how it all works. He didnt seem like that type of guy and my setups suck anyway so I didnt care! The IVGA puts up free bio pages to its members and I wanted to put mine up so my online friends could see who they were running with. I also responded to Don Wilshes inquirey to provide input to the N2 guide. And he put it up (Thank you Don) That is the extent of my involement with the now infamous IVGA. Anyway why don't you go to the IVGA page and read "The Secrets of a Backmarker" <g>? Commercial Alert!

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> > Drivers: > > The IVGA does not appove of cheating, but is testing cheating?? > > All of this whinning about super performance on hawaii is a waste of > > time. > > If you believe that a certain driver has extraordinary performance than > > dont race with him. The 1st thing you must remember is that the HAWAII > > system is a beta test enviroment. It's not perfect, its a test bed > > and its primary purpose is for testing, not RACING. > Don, Don, Don......Geeez.......you really gotta think about altering > the medication level man....either more or less, I'm not sure which way > would be better, but you're starting to babble again, and it's not nearly > as funny nowadays as it use to be. I can understand y'all being pissed > off about having to grow up in Allegan and all, probably got your ass > kicked on the way to school most every day, and lost yer lunch money > alot, but LET IT GO MAN!!! It's 40 + years later now, and I'd bet that > none of us here in HAWAII had anything to do with your rotten childhood. > It just aint healthy man to get so damn much pleasure out of bursting > everybodys bubble, and tearing everything down. YOU NEED HELP! > And as far as your buddy Huggins is concerned (and any other of your > cheating/hacking brethren that I aint had the misfortune to run across > yet), a man that would cheat others that he's befriended, just because > they cant see his face, or get to him without a half days drive, is a > VERY small man indeed. This whole thing certainly brings to mind the old > saying "birds of a feather flock together" or is that " honor among > thieves"? In the replay I have with your hacker buddy in it, it dont say > "TESTER1", it says "rhuggins". The difference here that you seem > completely unable to distinguish is that if he had been testing, he > should have been man enough to tell us up front that he was using an > enhanced system instead of sneaking around on the track using his "turbo" > button to gain MAJOR ground on the competition, without them having a > clue what the hell was going on. This kind of person is also capable of > cheating on his wife and stealing from his employer and friends. And the > really sad thing is that, that kind of person can justify that type of > behavior to themselves, and live without guilt, where the average man > with scruples would have sleepless nights on end. > My suggestion to you Don is to GET LOST. You're like the Bruton > Smith of the virtual world, and your bitterness and vindictiveness at not > being the star at center stage here is really getting annoying. I suggest > you try and resolve your childhood problems and then get on with your > life somewhere else......and remember......you cant go home again! > geeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz............................ > I'd like to go on, but if I do, I'll have to up MY medication > too<g>. > tom > 1997" 8 8 8 8 > Owner/Driver of the Kingsford 8888888 8888888 > Charcoal Monte Carlo. 8 8 8 8 > 3rd Coast Racing runs with NIGHT OWLS 8888888 8888888 > http://www.synapse.net/~crankstr/nightowl/nightowl.htm

Well put Tom!!!!!! Paul

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> On Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:49:48 -0500, "Paul Carillon Jr." > >Excuse me Don but you say that hawaii is not racing and that IVGA doesnt > >approve of cheating????? > The IVGA doesn't approve of cheating.. You are not probably understand > the issue that is at hand here.. > > You make no sense you say "testing is > >cheating" so you and your IVGA goofs are not on there to race but to > >practice your cheating skills because obvisiously you are not on there > >like a majority of us are. > Hmm.. Name calling.. Is that all you can do?? That's not going to > ressolve anything now, is it? I guess you don't believe in movement > towards techonology do you?? > Damn, if "we" were in some type of "motorsport" association, I guess > we would stay on "one plane". We would "never" advance forward in > technology!!!!!! The HP would be the same, eh?? Chassis/suspension the > same?? Materials?? Sheesh.. If you don't test things out how is > anything going to be learned????? HUH????? > Scenario: Let's put the IVGA aside, lets say this has "never" happened > on Hawaii and NRO has started.. And.. It happens.. Now what?? > Evidentally there's a "flaw" in NRO and it needs to be corrected!! > .. that is to race against drivers who are > >fast and respectable and enjoy the thrill of legal competition.i have > >been on Hawaii for almost a year now and the only time i hear of trouble > >it always has IVGA around it > Hmm.. the IVGA guys..Name them.. Come on.. This is the Internet, there > is so much BS out there!!! > I am from Missouri.. so "SHOW ME".. I betcha it's just hearsay... > I enjoy competition. The term "legal" is defined as one see them!! > Remember the "gray areas"??? NOT everyone thinks the same do we? > >.I think the IVGA is a joke you have guys i > >believe are respectable,so dont get me wrong but you are a joke .You > >always seem to make everything you do as if you are the "God" of racing > >and i think if i remeber right you had your members send you there > >setups to make sure they werent corrupt which then gave you access to > >all the fast setups????? > Ahh.. the "setup controversey".. Hmm.. I see a "whiner" here, I guess > you don't believe in your own "talents", eh?? I guess you "progressive > forward"???; ) Remember, "a setup is only has good as the person who > made it!!" I don't know if you have noticed, but not one setup doesn't > work for everyone!! So take a "chill pill"!! Okay?? > There are several variables that come into an account when using > someone's else's setup. For example, the PC configuration.. Hmm. duh?? > Hmm.. A "God of racing", how?? We are an organization for "Sim Racers" > to level the playing field.. You have to find the flaws, ya know.. > Hick Hick..; ) Granted there are probably some "other" organizations > that think the same of their group. > >?I could be wrong but i am pretty sure i am > >right on this.I still cant believe that you say Hawaii is a test bed and > >is not racing... > Do you remember BETA for NRO?? Does this mean the term BETA means > final?? Dude, look at reality.. It's NOT THE FINAL!!! > TEST BED for FLAWS in the PAPY WAREZ...;-) > > Man i just dont understand you. > Maybe you need to look back in dejavu news??? > >Sure its the test bed > >for the NRO but we have to race and get a skill level to get into the > >upper level in NRO > Yeah.. so?? I really think this isn't right. Granted, your skill is > based on "survival" of the fitness on Hawaii, BUT, what also counts is > the "speed" that is obtained. The faster you are, the easier you can > move up the ladder.. BUT this is with the N1 physics engine!! NRO will > be using N2, which really has a "different" feel to it. So I think > some of the fast guys in Hawaii, will NOT be as FAST in NRO!! Except > the fortunate BETA TESTERs for NRO!!!! > >so if you jokers > OKay.. Batman..; ) > > want to test your Illegal setups to > >gain so be it but Most of are on Hawaii to race. > "Illegal"?? Who said illegal?? I have NEVER said I have used it on > HAWAII!! Twisted again.. sheesh.. I bet you don't even remember how it > started.. > >BTW one other thing I > >have raced against your buddy Huggins and found him to be clean but i > >was amazed at the fact that at a Dover race recently,like in the last 2 > >weeks, he caught me at Dover in 2 laps after being 5 secs back and i was > >running speeds in the the hi 159's and lo 160's so go figure.When he > >caught me he was running the same speeds hhhmmmm... must have been on > >there Testing huh!. > Probably.. He probably working with Papy?? What do you think?? He was > a TESTER# .. ya know.. Hick Hick..; ) > Damn, I hear the cows moving about in the pastures..; ) Hehe.. > take care > Julian "Mr. Turtle" Data > IVGA Member 0004 > The N2 "SkunksWorks" is in progress > Verite/3DFX owner

Julian let me ask this...When Papy put out That memo on cheats and asking them to help didnt they say they would be on under "testerxx ID's"?????????Thats fine if he was on under that i am asking about a race he was in under RHuggins.... Thank you Paul

>>I would be willing to be that the beta testers will not be allowed to >>compete in the NRL anyways, you might want to check into that fact before >>you start assuming that these testers are going to be cheating in the NRL. >Err.. I believe you are wrong!! I think "they" will be allowed to >enter NRO... I think "favoritism" might be an issue here.. Beta testers have helped the NROS by working with Papy and should be allowed to compete. They do have a head start but I don't have a problem with that. Guys who cheat covertly have also helped the NROS indirectly, much that same way a convicted serial killer helps the FBI to learn about serial killers. Just because he helped indirectly doesn't make him right and doesn't make him good!! !! "Some people lose their souls in order to save their faces" - Unknown Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

>Yes, the IVGA does NOT approve cheating, only to find flaws in the >sims. So yes we do "TEST" alot!!!; ) Without "testing", there would be >no progress in technology or knowledge.. Am I correct everyone?? If the IVGA was working WITH Papy to make things better I might agree. May I borrow your well concieved argument if I ever get the urge to go into a McDonalds and shoot everybody just to get my hands on all of the moist Chicken McNuggets? When the police arrive I'll say "Hey let go of me! I'm a HERO! I was just trying to point out security flaws that McDonald's has! You guys are ignorant! You don't understand! I'm helping you! Ouch, your hurting my hands!" Boooooonk....<fade to black> :~} "Some people reach the top rung of the ladder only to find it has been leaning against the wrong wall" - Unknown Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

>> You guys >>are ignorant! >Not ignorant..But rather "open minded".. Open your mind, dude.. First >of all, what IVGA member is cheating? That was taken out of context. Who's twisting now? These types of things have always transpired (not just here either). They will continue to transpire. It is rare indeed when people try to convince you that they are cheating for our own good. I've gotten a little too personal here and I apologize. I am sure you are a great Sim driver (at least). I am just an average Sim driver. I am glad that Sim driving ability doesn't define the man. You have your opinions, I have mine. I don't think either one of us is going to change the others mind. So, I'll back off a bit and say uncle. Peace, Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

Hi Don, Let's consider exactly WHY Papyrus is supplying these testers with such information. It is because.... 1) They TRUST their testers implicitly, 2) They need to eliminate these potential loopholes 3) They don't want YOUR racing spoiled by cheating. Papyrus are being open and honest with you and describing exactly what they are doing so that people don't get fired up about "extraordinary performance". What do you do? Go and get fired up anyway. Why not at least give Papyrus the chance to disappoint us before flaming them? Me? I trust them to not only choose appropriate testers to find the problems, but to slam those doors closed and lock them. I know several of the testers personally and a more talented bunch of drivers and professional bunch you would never find. Yes, they tell PAPYRUS, that's their job. Papyrus then address these issues so that the on-line series becomes a fair environment. Let's face it, Papyrus want to do well with the on-line series, and if suddenly all their beta testers are winning everything with "wierd" performance, the demand will be pretty low. "Priveledged"? Really? Do a job for FREE for MANY months only to be FLAMED by everyone on r.a.s. and for every on-line victory to be DISMISSED as due to "cheating"? If that's priveledged then you're welcome to it. These guys do an INCREDIBLE job, we should thank them rather than attack them. Cheers! John PS - "Real life" is understood here......

Nope. Not 100% of the time :-) -- Header address intentionaly scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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>Ahh.. the "setup controversey".. Hmm.. I see a "whiner" here, I guess >you don't believe in your own "talents", eh?? I guess you "progressive >forward"???; ) Remember, "a setup is only has good as the person who >made it!!" I don't know if you have noticed, but not one setup doesn't >work for everyone!! So take a "chill pill"!! Okay?? >There are several variables that come into an account when using >someone's else's setup. For example, the PC configuration.. Hmm. duh??

Okay, a quick question - which is better.... - Arriving at a track with driving talent and no setup data - Arriving at a track with driving talent and 3,000 saved setups which you can try one by one until you find one that suits you. Even if you can't find one that fits you sure as heck get a lot of useful data. Whichever way you look at it, at the very least it's an advantage that others don't have. Cheers! John

>They don't fix!!!! BETA TESTERS aren't using their "imagine" as to >"what if" when they test... You don't know that, you only see the final result. How that result was arrived at is known only to Papyrus. It could be financial, limits of the code, time related, any one of a number of issues. I personally know many of the testers and they are VERY good drivers, and imaginative to boot. A better group you couldn't pick. Why the heck shouldn't they be allowed to enter? They've given up hours and hours of free time to give us the best product they can, and then we turn around and tell them it's not "fair" and they aren't allowed to enjoy what they worked for? If you're a better driver than someone then you'll beat them. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but if you put the work in (as they have done) then you will. FWIW, when GP2 was released I asked the team to list off the best time their test team had achieved at each track during MONTHS of testing. The challenge was that within a week we would beat every one of the times. Guess what? We did. Guys like Achim Trensz, Michael Wollenschein and Ralf Tzschoppe were _seconds_ faster within a week. Spa 1991 - a rookie Schumacher or his experienced teammate? Who was best...? Cheers! John

>True, Big JW; ) But the "same" bugs in N1 are still present in N2. >These bugs have been "preached" to Papy. I have spoken to several >"beta" testers. They have written to Dave Matson about the bugs, yet >he has been reluctant to do something about them.. How can you say he is "reluctant"? It could be lack of time or an aspect of the code that means it is impossible. I dislike ragging on someone when we simply don't know what's the reason. Favouritism does exist but only in pockets, it's certainly not the norm. In this case I detect no whiff of any favour, it's only fair that the beta testers should be allowed to run after all their effort. They will certainly not be unbeatable, and any thought of favouritism is being created by us on this newsgroup IMO. Drive safely now while getting all that practice in! Cheers! John