TOCA Race Driver 2: Beware!!!!

Further to the thread (below): "I bought Toca Race Driver 2": You should take a look at this (from: http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/9888 ) "StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices "Womble used our news submit to tell us that users of our forums report that the Star-Force copy protection [included w. both the TOCA retail product AND the demo] installs hidden drivers. The drivers can be shown when selecting 'hidden devices' in the device manager of Windows XP. Installed drivers are: 'Starforce Protection Enviroment Driver v5', 'Starforce Protection Helper Driver', 'Starforce Protection Helper Driver v2', 'Starforce Protection Synchronizer v1'. All these drivers are installed when you install a game that is Starforce protected. "Altough annoying and by some seen 'hijacking of the PC' this would not be so bad if the drivers could easily been removed. However users reported that after several reboots the drivers make their appearance again. A special tool, that can be downloaded from the website game developer AdventureCompanyGames seems to be able to reliably clean the hidden drivers from the system. More information on this can be found in this thread," here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=97861 The cure to cure this is said to be avail here (partial addy): http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...rforceClean.exe

Here's the full addy of the supposed StarForce "cleaner: http://www.adventurecompanygames.com/tac/support/media/StarforceClean.exe "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PLgzc.76430$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Further to the thread (below): "I bought Toca Race Driver 2": > > You should take a look at this (from: > http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/9888 ) > > "StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices > > "Womble used our news submit to tell us that users of our forums report

that > the Star-Force copy protection [included w. both the TOCA retail productAND > the demo] installs hidden drivers. The drivers can be shown when selecting > 'hidden devices' in the device manager of Windows XP. Installed driversare:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> 'Starforce Protection Enviroment Driver v5', 'Starforce Protection Helper > Driver', 'Starforce Protection Helper Driver v2', 'Starforce Protection > Synchronizer v1'. All these drivers are installed when you install a game > that is Starforce protected. > > "Altough annoying and by some seen 'hijacking of the PC' this would not be > so bad if the drivers could easily been removed. However users reported

that > after several reboots the drivers make their appearance again. A special > tool, that can be downloaded from the website game developer > AdventureCompanyGames seems to be able to reliably clean the hiddendrivers

Quoted text (10 lines)

> from the system. More information on this can be found in this thread," > here: > > http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=97861 > > The cure to cure this is said to be avail here (partial addy): > > http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...rforceClean.exe > >

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:22:07 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >"StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices Thanks for the heads up, Steve. It's quite funny, actually, nowadays I first get the warez version of software, and only when it runs without problems, I'll buy it. For example, when I tried to install an update for Operation Flashpoint, which I bought, it failed since it checked for Virtual CD, which I had installed. Now why on Earth should software check my configuration before allowing me to install an update? It's a strange world where people using warez versions of software actually get a better version then the people who bought it.... Cheers! Remco

Um, that didn't seem to work. From Raphael Barabas' post (below), this link seems to work: http://www.codemasters.co.uk/downloads/displayfiles.php?showdetails=13989 "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rQgzc.76451$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> Here's the full addy of the supposed StarForce "cleaner: > > http://www.adventurecompanygames.com/tac/support/media/StarforceClean.exe > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:PLgzc.76430$[email hidden]... > > Further to the thread (below): "I bought Toca Race Driver 2": > > > > You should take a look at this (from: > > http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/9888 ) > > > > "StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices > > > > "Womble used our news submit to tell us that users of our forums report > that > > the Star-Force copy protection [included w. both the TOCA retail product > AND > > the demo] installs hidden drivers. The drivers can be shown when

selecting > > 'hidden devices' in the device manager of Windows XP. Installed drivers > are: > > 'Starforce Protection Enviroment Driver v5', 'Starforce ProtectionHelper > > Driver', 'Starforce Protection Helper Driver v2', 'Starforce Protection > > Synchronizer v1'. All these drivers are installed when you install agame > > that is Starforce protected. > > > > "Altough annoying and by some seen 'hijacking of the PC' this would notbe

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > so bad if the drivers could easily been removed. However users reported > that > > after several reboots the drivers make their appearance again. A special > > tool, that can be downloaded from the website game developer > > AdventureCompanyGames seems to be able to reliably clean the hidden > drivers > > from the system. More information on this can be found in this thread," > > here: > > > > http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=97861 > > > > The cure to cure this is said to be avail here (partial addy): > > > > http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...rforceClean.exe > > > > > >

Strange new world, huh? "Remco Moedt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (29 lines)

> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:22:07 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >"StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices > > Thanks for the heads up, Steve. It's quite funny, actually, nowadays I > first get the warez version of software, and only when it runs without > problems, I'll buy it. For example, when I tried to install an update > for Operation Flashpoint, which I bought, it failed since it checked > for Virtual CD, which I had installed. > > Now why on Earth should software check my configuration before > allowing me to install an update? It's a strange world where people > using warez versions of software actually get a better version then > the people who bought it.... > > > Cheers! > > > Remco > > > > > > > >

Strange anyway "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Hahzc.76553$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (35 lines)

> Strange new world, huh? > > "Remco Moedt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:22:07 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >"StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices > > > > Thanks for the heads up, Steve. It's quite funny, actually, nowadays I > > first get the warez version of software, and only when it runs without > > problems, I'll buy it. For example, when I tried to install an update > > for Operation Flashpoint, which I bought, it failed since it checked > > for Virtual CD, which I had installed. > > > > Now why on Earth should software check my configuration before > > allowing me to install an update? It's a strange world where people > > using warez versions of software actually get a better version then > > the people who bought it.... > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > Remco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:22:07 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote something like:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>"StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices > >"Womble used our news submit to tell us that users of our forums report that >the Star-Force copy protection [included w. both the TOCA retail product AND >the demo] installs hidden drivers. The drivers can be shown when selecting >'hidden devices' in the device manager of Windows XP. Installed drivers are: >'Starforce Protection Enviroment Driver v5', 'Starforce Protection Helper >Driver', 'Starforce Protection Helper Driver v2', 'Starforce Protection >Synchronizer v1'. All these drivers are installed when you install a game >that is Starforce protected.

Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they mentioned in the EULA? -- Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or at least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing Black Mirror: ****************************** Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related to some device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection software: Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers. Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears to remove them. The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in my memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys, sfhlp01.sys, prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys. Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned out to be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor is very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games. The in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play the game with all the lights turned off, and my video card "vibrancy control" turned up. That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take up unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imagine the trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start inserting drivers that you didn't know about... ****************************** The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them: http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263 http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491 http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1 http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat "Jussi Koukku" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they > mentioned in the EULA? > -- > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:47:06 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> spouted this nonsense: >StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or at >least a virus. How is it a virus? -- Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:10:05 +0100, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote: >How is it a virus? vi�rus ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vrs) n. pl. vi�rus�es 2. Something that poisons one's soul or mind

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:23:03 -0700, Diskhead <[email hidden]> wrote: > 2. Something that poisons one's soul or mind Wow, that's one hell of a bit of software! -- Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:23:03 -0700, Diskhead <[email hidden]> > wrote: > >> 2. Something that poisons one's soul or mind > > Wow, that's one hell of a bit of software! It is a virus in the sense that it installs onto your system WITHOUT your permission. It is a virus in the sense that you CANNOT easily be rid of it. It is a virus in that it adds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the performance of the program and your system. And apparently, it is a virus because it conflicts with certain hardware configurations, I would suspect it may even be hogging a valuble IRQ.(just a guess tho, no facts) dave henrie

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:29:23 -0500, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > It is a virus in the sense that it installs onto your system WITHOUT >your permission. It is a virus in the sense that you CANNOT easily be rid >of it. It is a virus in that it adds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the performance >of the program and your system. And apparently, it is a virus because it >conflicts with certain hardware configurations, I would suspect it may even >be hogging a valuble IRQ.(just a guess tho, no facts) None of which has anything to do with the definition of a virus. -- Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

You're wrong. And prolly trolling. Dave is right. Any questions? "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:29:23 -0500, Dave Henrie > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > It is a virus in the sense that it installs onto your system WITHOUT > >your permission. It is a virus in the sense that you CANNOT easily berid > >of it. It is a virus in that it adds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to theperformance > >of the program and your system. And apparently, it is a virus because it > >conflicts with certain hardware configurations, I would suspect it mayeven

Quoted text (8 lines)

> >be hogging a valuble IRQ.(just a guess tho, no facts) > > None of which has anything to do with the definition of a virus. > -- > Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. > Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, > please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. > Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You're wrong. It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that doesn't make it a virus. > And prolly trolling. I never troll. > Dave is right. You are as stupid as Dave then. > Any questions? Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell? -- Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

Another thread and another few people you have rubbed up the wrong way,you really do believe your own hype dont you Andrew. AD "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (24 lines)

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >You're wrong. > > It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that > doesn't make it a virus. > > > And prolly trolling. > > I never troll. > > > Dave is right. > > You are as stupid as Dave then. > > > Any questions? > > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell? > -- > Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. > Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, > please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. > Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

It's sad I killfile Andy the troll yet I still see his posts. We need better filters ;) "AD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cang1p$188$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (32 lines)

> Another thread and another few people you have rubbed up the wrong way,you > really do believe your own hype dont you Andrew. > > AD > "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >You're wrong. > > > > It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that > > doesn't make it a virus. > > > > > And prolly trolling. > > > > I never troll. > > > > > Dave is right. > > > > You are as stupid as Dave then. > > > > > Any questions? > > > > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell? > > -- > > Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. > > Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, > > please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. > > Check groups.google.com before asking a question. > >

LOL Mitch :) AD "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fEIzc.72231$[email hidden]... > It's sad I killfile Andy the troll yet I still see his posts. We need > better filters ;) > > "AD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cang1p$188$[email hidden]... > > Another thread and another few people you have rubbed up the wrongway,you

Quoted text (26 lines)

> > really do believe your own hype dont you Andrew. > > > > AD > > "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >You're wrong. > > > > > > It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that > > > doesn't make it a virus. > > > > > > > And prolly trolling. > > > > > > I never troll. > > > > > > > Dave is right. > > > > > > You are as stupid as Dave then. > > > > > > > Any questions? > > > > > > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell? > > > -- > > > Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove

spamtrap.

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > > Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, > > > please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. > > > Check groups.google.com before asking a question. > > > > > >

Yes, Andrew, why don't you go bother the nice folks in some other forum, hmmmn? "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (24 lines)

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >You're wrong. > > It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that > doesn't make it a virus. > > > And prolly trolling. > > I never troll. > > > Dave is right. > > You are as stupid as Dave then. > > > Any questions? > > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell? > -- > Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. > Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, > please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. > Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell? > -- > Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. PLONK

Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (19 lines)

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>You're wrong. > > It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that > doesn't make it a virus. > >> And prolly trolling. > > I never troll. > >> Dave is right. > > You are as stupid as Dave then. > >> Any questions? > > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell?

I'm glad you have A brain cell. That single cell must really be working overtime. Now back to the matter at hand...if your single cell can remember the topic. A virus in computerese is a program that is installed without the user/owner's knowledge or permission. A virus installed in such a method is then able to carry out the instructions of the virus' author. A virus does not have to cause harm to a system, it may be benign, or it may be malicious, but it is still a virus. A virus by it's very nature is difficult to detect and difficult to remove. A virus can be coded to spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement. So...does this copy protection announce it's installation? No. Does this CP remove itself when the host program is removed? No. Does this CP hide key components from the user's view? Yes. Does this CP cause difficulties for users? We have annecdotal evidence that this is true. But even just sitting on a hard drive without the user's knowledge or permission constitutes invasion by an outside source, i.e a virus. Simply because the offending code does not replicate in the time- honored method of copying address books, does NOT mean this code is not a virus. Simply because this code uses a hidden method to replicate itself (the installation of a demo or purchased product) does NOT mean it does not spread. Simply because you say it ain't so doesn't mean squat. dave (proud to be as 'stupid' as Steve Smith) henrie

This may be a dumb question, but: After removing the files in question (assuming that it can be done), does TRD2 still run? Or does it re-install the files each time you put the CD in the drive? I have the files on my system, but (so far) I haven't noticed any ill effects. Thanks! Steve Smith wrote:

Quoted text (56 lines)

> StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or at > least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of > what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing Black > Mirror: > > ****************************** > > Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On > Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related to some > device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection > software: > > Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is > completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and > demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers. > Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears > to remove them. > > The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB > memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in my > memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. > > Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of > these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys, sfhlp01.sys, > prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys. > > Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned out to > be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor is > very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games. The > in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely > overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play the game > with all the lights turned off, and my video > card "vibrancy control" turned up. > > That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take up > unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imagine the > trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start > inserting drivers that you didn't know about... > > ****************************** > > The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them: > > http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263 > http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491 > http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1 > http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1 > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat > > "Jussi Koukku" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they > > mentioned in the EULA? > > -- > > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

This may be a dumb question, but: After removing the files in question (assuming that it can be done), does TRD2 still run? Or does it re-install the files each time you put the CD in the drive? I have the files on my system, but (so far) I haven't noticed any ill effects. Thanks!

Quoted text (57 lines)

> StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or at > least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of > what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing Black > Mirror: > ****************************** > Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On > Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related to some > device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection > software: > Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is > completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and > demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers. > Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears > to remove them. > The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB > memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in my > memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. > Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of > these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys, sfhlp01.sys, > prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys. > Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned out to > be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor is > very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games. The > in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely > overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play the game > with all the lights turned off, and my video > card "vibrancy control" turned up. > That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take up > unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imagine the > trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start > inserting drivers that you didn't know about... > ****************************** > The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them: > http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263 > http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491 > http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1 > http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1 > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat > > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they > > mentioned in the EULA? > > -- > > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

Steve, after registering a complaint with Codemaster here is part of their response. As you can see it was less than satisfactory. They didn't address my concern that I will not except Viruses being installed on my PC. > Thank you for submitting your recent request to Codemasters Customer > Services concerning Toca Race Driver 2. > > The drivers that are installed with the Starforce protection system arejust > that - drivers. They are not spyware, they are not resident in memory and > they are only used when called upon by the software that they wereinstalled > with. If the software installed was in dll form instead of drivers, they > would not even be noticed. If you are really concerned, though, then youcan

Quoted text (9 lines)

> remove the drivers by downloading and running the utility here: > > <http://www.users.on.net/~testeagles/StarforceClean.exe> > > Obviously, though, the game will not work without these drivers installed. > > Regards > Codemasters Customer Services

Pete "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:u5Dzc.337614$[email hidden]... > StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...orat > least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of > what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installingBlack > Mirror: > > ****************************** > > Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On > Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related tosome

Quoted text (11 lines)

> device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection > software: > > Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is > completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and > demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers. > Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears > to remove them. > > The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB > memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in

my > memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. > > Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of > these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys,sfhlp01.sys, > prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys. > > Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned outto > be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor is > very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games. The > in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely > overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play thegame > with all the lights turned off, and my video > card "vibrancy control" turned up. > > That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take up > unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imaginethe

Quoted text (23 lines)

> trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start > inserting drivers that you didn't know about... > > ****************************** > > The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them: > > http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263 > http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491 > http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1 > http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1 > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat > > > "Jussi Koukku" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they > > mentioned in the EULA? > > -- > > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku > >

Dave Henrie wrote: > [..] A virus can be coded to > spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement. Off the top of my braincell i'd say self-replication (with the help of an unsuspecting host) is the key element of a virus. If it's not replicating then it's just malware.

Dave Henrie wrote: > [..] A virus can be coded to > spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement. Off the top of my braincell i'd say self-replication (with the help of an unsuspecting host) is one of the key functions of a virus. If it's not replicating then it's just malware.

Raphael Barabas <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Dave Henrie wrote: >> [..] A virus can be coded to >> spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement. > > Off the top of my braincell i'd say self-replication (with the help of > an unsuspecting host) is one of the key functions of a virus. If it's > not replicating then it's just malware. >

Ahh but the unsuspecting host, in this case, is not another program, trojan or email, but the User himself. By distributing the demo with the hidden copy protection, the author has simplified distrubution. To be sure this is not a terrible blight, it does not present a danger to the stabilty of the net...but it is a secretly spread, difficult to dislodge program that the user neither asked for, intended to install, or wanted. It can, through unintended consequences, cause conflicts within a system. Remember, one of methods of early virus distrubution was to leave an infected floppy disc with the name of a company president on the label somewhere near the computers of lower echelon employees. And many virui were simply exercises in intellect. They caused no harm, some even were entertaining. But they were still virus'. A program does not need to harm to be a virus. I am sure the perpetrators of this paticular brand of copy protection were not intending to circulate a virus...but you have to ask yourself...if the copy protection contains all the traits of a virus, is there any difference? If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck. dave henrie

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:47:06 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote something like: >StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or at >least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of >what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing Black >Mirror: > >******************************<snip> >The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB >memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in my >memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. Now that I've read that... I had the TRD2 demo installed on my machine some time ago, and I started having troubles with my bluetooth dongle (USB) at about the same time. After trying to update the bluetooth drivers I started getting BSOD's. It got so bad that I had to reinstall WinXP to fix it. I never had BSOD's with XP before or after that... makes me think that these StarForce drivers were the cause. -- Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

Actually, Starforce 3 isn't a virus - it's a trojan horse. A virus is generally something which self-duplicates and spreads.

Andrew wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:29:23 -0500, Dave Henrie > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >> It is a virus in the sense that it installs onto your system >> WITHOUT your permission. It is a virus in the sense that you >> CANNOT easily be rid of it. It is a virus in that it adds >> ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the performance of the program and your >> system. And apparently, it is a virus because it conflicts with >> certain hardware configurations, I would suspect it may even be >> hogging a valuble IRQ.(just a guess tho, no facts) > > > None of which has anything to do with the definition of a virus.

Hmm...I would disagree. It's a piece of software that sneaks in on the back of something else you want, doesn't inform you of its presence, and is difficult to remove, and presumably something you don't want. While not a particularly sneaky virus, it sounds an awful lot like viruses that came with .exe downloads back in the BBS days. Admittedly, nothing like today's e-mail worms or RPC worms, but similar to a virus nonetheless. If a piece of software installs something else without my knowledge and makes it purposefully difficult to remove (to the point that I probably have to go get another piece of software just to get rid of it), I consider it a virus. I also consider any spyware that hijacks IE to install itself a virus as well, so my definition may be looser than some.

The Starforce drivers acn be removed by a tool posted on Codemasters web page, but TRD2 will no longer run if you remove it If you try to run TRD2 it will re-install the Starforce drivers. Andi. -- Remove only one zero to reply. "BRH @comcast.net>" <"bhoenig<no-spam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > This may be a dumb question, but: > > After removing the files in question (assuming that it can be done), does TRD2 > still run? Or does it re-install the files each time you put the CD in the > drive? > > I have the files on my system, but (so far) I haven't noticed any ill effects. > > Thanks! > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or at > > least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of > > what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing Black > > Mirror: > > > > ****************************** > > > > Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On > > Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related to some > > device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection > > software: > > > > Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is > > completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and > > demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers. > > Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears > > to remove them. > > > > The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB > > memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in my > > memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. > > > > Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of > > these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys, sfhlp01.sys, > > prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys. > > > > Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned out to > > be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor is > > very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games. The > > in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely > > overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play the game > > with all the lights turned off, and my video > > card "vibrancy control" turned up. > > > > That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take up > > unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imagine the > > trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start > > inserting drivers that you didn't know about... > > > > ****************************** > > > > The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them: > > > > http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263 > > http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491 > > http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1 > > http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat > > > > "Jussi Koukku" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they > > > mentioned in the EULA? > > > -- > > > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku >

Sorry for second-posting. Apparently didn't lurk long enough to recognize the local trolls-in-denial to know not to respond to them, especially not to quote them. Apologies on all fronts.

Damien Evans wrote: > Actually, Starforce 3 isn't a virus - it's a trojan horse. A virus > is generally something which self-duplicates and spreads. > Nei, nei. A trojan horse installs itself pretending to be something else. StarForce doesn't install itself pretending to be a useful program, it sneaks into your system on the back of another program pretending to be useful. Now, were you to call TOCA a trojan horse, that would be accurate. Were StarForce not able to affect anything other than your TOCA install, I would be willing to call it malware, but considering that it installs itself as a device driver and presumably interferes with more than just the operation of TOCA, I would consider that replication (infecting other programs with its local brand-o-evil) similar to how viruses spread long before internet-borne worms were the de facto standard. It's decidedly not quite to the level of those old viruses that would seek out every .exe and .com file to infect, but it's certainly not without its own ability to spread itself to other aspects of your machine. It is a grey area, but I consider it a pretty dark shade of grey.

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > > If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck. > > dave henrie > > It looks like a trojan to me, not a virus. cheers John

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck. > > dave henrie > > I dunno man, I've seen Bugs dressed as Daffy, but he is still a rabbit. It may fool Elmer, but I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter than that. Uh... that's all folks. -- MRSisson LOAD "GPL",8,1 RUN

Jussi, That would jibe with the experience of the CD Freaks forum poster I quoted above; the guy whose USB flash memory device would no longer work. Boycott 'em all, that's my motto! --Steve "Jussi Koukku" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:47:06 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote something like: > > >StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...orat > >least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of > >what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installingBlack > >Mirror: > > > >****************************** > <snip> > >The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for myUSB > >memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged inmy

Quoted text (11 lines)

> >memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. > > Now that I've read that... I had the TRD2 demo installed on my > machine some time ago, and I started having troubles with my bluetooth > dongle (USB) at about the same time. After trying to update the > bluetooth drivers I started getting BSOD's. It got so bad that I had > to reinstall WinXP to fix it. I never had BSOD's with XP before or > after that... makes me think that these StarForce drivers were the > cause. > -- > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:07:13 +0100, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote: >None of which has anything to do with the definition of a virus. It fits the definition of a Trojan virus.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:07:13 +0100, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote: >None of which has anything to do with the definition of a virus. Sorry, meant to say Trojan Worm, not virus.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 05:06:17 +0000 (UTC), Raphael Barabas <[email hidden]> wrote: >Off the top of my braincell i'd say self-replication (with the help of >an unsuspecting host) is the key element of a virus. If it's not >replicating then it's just malware. Trojan worms don't replicate. Starforce is a worm - squish it dead.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:04:16 +0100, "Andi Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote: >The Starforce drivers acn be removed by a tool posted on Codemasters web >page, but TRD2 will no longer run if you remove it If you try to run TRD2 >it will re-install the Starforce drivers. > >Andi. I'm going to test the waters and demand that Codemasters take back TOCA2 and refund me my money due to this Starforce crap.

JM <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Xns950ACD510B7C9M@ 212.159.13.1:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > It looks like a trojan to me, not a virus. > > cheers > John > >

Splitting hairs. You might as well say that Sea-Green really isn't a shade of green because it has a small bit of blue included. I'm not saying it IS a virus. But what I am saying is, it's make-up, distibution, and over-all secretiveness of the it's operation is so like a virus it might as well be one. A trojan, a wyrm, a viri...it doesn't matter...users are not inviting the program onto their systems willingly and are not able to easily remove it.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:31:23 +0100, Andrew wrote: > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell? Dear Andrew, I've always held you in high regard for your strict adherence to usenet standards and helpful answers to racing sim related questions, but calling Dave Henrie stupid goes a bit too far in my book and definitely crosses the line between voicing one's opinion and needless name-calling and flaming. Maybe you should try to get out more, you seem to be rather frustrated at the moment. Head down to the local pub mate, throw a couple of darts, enjoy a couple of pints of that fantastic ale they serve and you'll feel better in no time at all. ;-) Cheers, Uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <PLgzc.76430$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Further to the thread (below): "I bought Toca Race Driver 2": > > You should take a look at this (from: > http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/9888 ) > > "StarForce: Copy Protection or Scumware? - Installs Hidden Devices I'm glad I got the xbox version. ;) Cheers, Rod.

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:22:07 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Further to the thread (below): "I bought Toca Race Driver 2": That was my post, and I have just found out that another game I lown also installs Starforce - Enigma:Rising Tide. I have a USB pendrive and tested it last night and these Starforce drivers don't cause any issue for me. I emailed the publisher and told them what dicks I thought they were for installing a trojan on my PC though.

Hmmh, I have Enigma:RT installed and there are no Starforce drivers in my device manager (yes I have the view hidden checked). Of course I also use a NoCD patch to run it since the CD search in ERT is sloooow. Maybe its different here in the North American release than where you live? David "Diskhead" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:22:07 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Further to the thread (below): "I bought Toca Race Driver 2": > > That was my post, and I have just found out that another game I lown > also installs Starforce - Enigma:Rising Tide. I have a USB pendrive > and tested it last night and these Starforce drivers don't cause any > issue for me. I emailed the publisher and told them what dicks I > thought they were for installing a trojan on my PC though.

I'm running RD2 on my Win98 system (not 98se, but plain ol' Win98), and the Starforce copy protection isn't causing any problems here -- I also use a regular USB 1.0 memory device regularly, and I haven't had any problems with that either. The only problem I had with the Starforce copy protection was that initially it would not read the game disk with my old 1x DVD-ROM drive. I swapped drives with my wife's computer (she had a 2x DVD-ROM drive and never watches DVDs on her PC), and that did the trick. Since then, I've had no problems with the Starforce copy protection. It does suck that the Starforce drivers install without notifying the user, but they seem to be rather non-intrusive to me, and they don't perform any spyware functions that I know of. Also FWIW, there's a guy from Starforce, I believe, who is very active on the Codemasters TOCA2 forum, trying to offer support and solutions to make the Starforce copy protection scheme more user-friendly -- for example, he (or "they," at Starforce) are working on an updated driver that will allow users to run multiple games on a LAN using a single RD2 DVD-ROM disk. THAT kind of attention and support from a developer -- ESPECIALLY one focused on copy protection -- is a wonderful thing. And, from my perspective, as much as I'd like to have a no-CD crack for RD2 in order to "save" my disk, I can understand the manufacturer's need for robust copy protection, and from that perspective I think it's kind of cool that RD2 has NOT been successfully pirated yet. -- JB "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Gr1Ac.341379$[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (38 lines)

> Jussi, > > That would jibe with the experience of the CD Freaks forum poster I quoted > above; the guy whose USB flash memory device would no longer work. > > Boycott 'em all, that's my motto! > > --Steve > > "Jussi Koukku" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:47:06 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote something like: > > > > >StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or > at > > >least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of > > >what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing > Black > > >Mirror: > > > > > >****************************** > <snip> > > >The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my > USB > > >memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in > my > > >memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher. > > > > Now that I've read that... I had the TRD2 demo installed on my > > machine some time ago, and I started having troubles with my bluetooth > > dongle (USB) at about the same time. After trying to update the > > bluetooth drivers I started getting BSOD's. It got so bad that I had > > to reinstall WinXP to fix it. I never had BSOD's with XP before or > > after that... makes me think that these StarForce drivers were the > > cause. > > -- > > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

A coworker was complaining his win98se system wouldn't boot anymore after installing RD2 (would reboot itself, would only boot in safe mode). Pointed him to this thread and his PC is now running fine once again with the starforce drivers removed. After several go arounds with codemaster's tech support (his comment "Based on the replies, I don't think they actually read the whole email."), he emailed Starforce. They set him up with a new set of the drivers and now he can play it. Ken

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:53:55 -0400, "Dave Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hmmh, I have Enigma:RT installed and there are no Starforce drivers in my >device manager (yes I have the view hidden checked). Of course I also use a >NoCD patch to run it since the CD search in ERT is sloooow. Maybe its >different here in the North American release than where you live? > >David Maybe it's the v213a patch that installs the Starforce drivers. I installed the game then installed the patch, then when I tried to run the game it asked me to reboot instead of asking for the code like it used to do. Then after the reboot and running the game it did the cd check exactly like TOCA2 does. And sure enough there were the Starforce entries in my Device Manager. I bought my copy in Canada.

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Splitting hairs. You might as well say that Sea-Green really isn't > a > shade of green because it has a small bit of blue included. I'm not > saying it IS a virus. But what I am saying is, it's make-up, > distibution, and over-all secretiveness of the it's operation is so > like a virus it might as well be one. A trojan, a wyrm, a viri...it > doesn't matter...users are not inviting the program onto their systems > willingly and are not able to easily remove it. >

It doesn't replicate, so it's not a virus. That's not splitting hairs, that's just not paying heed to Daily Mail headlines. cheers John

"Diskhead" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:53:55 -0400, "Dave Erb" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hmmh, I have Enigma:RT installed and there are no Starforce drivers in my > >device manager (yes I have the view hidden checked). Of course I also usea

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >NoCD patch to run it since the CD search in ERT is sloooow. Maybe its > >different here in the North American release than where you live? > > > >David > > Maybe it's the v213a patch that installs the Starforce drivers. I > installed the game then installed the patch, then when I tried to run > the game it asked me to reboot instead of asking for the code like it > used to do. Then after the reboot and running the game it did the cd > check exactly like TOCA2 does. And sure enough there were the > Starforce entries in my Device Manager. I bought my copy in Canada. >

Stranger and stranger. I bought mine in Canada too (1st day available at local EB), played it on my old comp which did have the starforce stuff (I assume becuase I played the TRD2 demo for all of 5 minutes). Built new comp, installed ERT, immediatly patched to 213a, a 55.8MB patch, then installed the latest noCD then played ERT. No starforce stuff can be found on this machine though it was easy to find on the old one. You sure you got them from ERT? I checked their forums and saw no mention of starforce though someone was complaining about a scratched CD not running.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:07:40 -0400, "Dave Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Stranger and stranger. I bought mine in Canada too (1st day available at >local EB), played it on my old comp which did have the starforce stuff (I >assume becuase I played the TRD2 demo for all of 5 minutes). Built new comp, >installed ERT, immediatly patched to 213a, a 55.8MB patch, then installed >the latest noCD then played ERT. No starforce stuff can be found on this >machine though it was easy to find on the old one. You sure you got them >from ERT? I checked their forums and saw no mention of starforce though >someone was complaining about a scratched CD not running. >

Yes, I'm postitive it is installing Starforce. I removed the Starforce crap with the utiltity available. Tries to run Enigma and again it said it had to load protection drivers and to rebooot the computer. Once again Starforce was there. Maybe I should get that nocd crack and then delete Starforce. Maybe I''ll just delete the whole game anyway as I don't like Enigma much.

JM <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Xns950CD3B33D399M@ 212.159.13.1:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > It doesn't replicate, so it's not a virus. That's not splitting hairs, > that's just not paying heed to Daily Mail headlines. > > cheers > John >

But it seems to me that it DOES replictate. Everytime somebody installs a demo a new version is installed. Everytime somebody buys programs protected by this Copy Protection, then another system is 'infected.' Again...it uses a non-traditional method of distribution, but it still is sent out to unsuspecting users via the internet (downloaded demo) or via a retail box. And please realize... I KNOW it's not a virus...but what I am saying is.....YES IT IS. It's close enough to classic definition of a virus so that it doesn't matter how it moves around the world or whether it does harm to a system. The result is the same: User's systems get infected by a program that hides itself, that lurks waiting to act, that cannot be easily removed. It doesn't matter if I get run over by a huge SUV or a Toyota Prius Hybrid car...I'm still feeling lousy either way. dave henrie

Diskhead wrote:

Quoted text (21 lines)

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:07:40 -0400, "Dave Erb" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >> Stranger and stranger. I bought mine in Canada too (1st day >> available at local EB), played it on my old comp which did have the >> starforce stuff (I assume becuase I played the TRD2 demo for all of >> 5 minutes). Built new comp, installed ERT, immediatly patched to >> 213a, a 55.8MB patch, then installed the latest noCD then played >> ERT. No starforce stuff can be found on this machine though it was >> easy to find on the old one. You sure you got them from ERT? I >> checked their forums and saw no mention of starforce though someone >> was complaining about a scratched CD not running. >> > > Yes, I'm postitive it is installing Starforce. I removed the Starforce > crap with the utiltity available. Tries to run Enigma and again it > said it had to load protection drivers and to rebooot the computer. > Once again Starforce was there. Maybe I should get that nocd crack and > then delete Starforce. Maybe I''ll just delete the whole game anyway > as I don't like Enigma much.

Just google for "enigma starforce" starforce 3 protection

Quoted text (19 lines)

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:07:40 -0400, "Dave Erb" >> Stranger and stranger. I bought mine in Canada too (1st day >> available at local EB), played it on my old comp which did have the >> starforce stuff (I assume becuase I played the TRD2 demo for all of >> 5 minutes). Built new comp, installed ERT, immediatly patched to >> 213a, a 55.8MB patch, then installed the latest noCD then played >> ERT. No starforce stuff can be found on this machine though it was >> easy to find on the old one. You sure you got them from ERT? I >> checked their forums and saw no mention of starforce though someone >> was complaining about a scratched CD not running. > Yes, I'm postitive it is installing Starforce. I removed the Starforce > ***with the utiltity available. Tries to run Enigma and again it > said it had to load protection drivers and to rebooot the computer. > Once again Starforce was there. Maybe I should get that nocd crack and > then delete Starforce. Maybe I''ll just delete the whole game anyway > as I don't like Enigma much.

Just google for "enigma starforce" starforce 3 protection

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted text (15 lines)

> But it seems to me that it DOES replictate. Everytime somebody > installs a demo a new version is installed. Everytime somebody buys > programs protected by this Copy Protection, then another system is > 'infected.' Again...it uses a non-traditional method of distribution, > but it still is sent out to unsuspecting users via the internet > (downloaded demo) or via a retail box. > And please realize... I KNOW it's not a virus...but what I am > saying is.....YES IT IS. It's close enough to classic definition of a > virus so that it doesn't matter how it moves around the world or whether > it does harm to a system. The result is the same: User's systems get > infected by a program that hides itself, that lurks waiting to act, that > cannot be easily removed. It doesn't matter if I get run over by a huge > SUV or a Toyota Prius Hybrid car...I'm still feeling lousy either way. > dave henrie >

You seem to be confusing replication with installation. It doesn't copy itself, it is installed on the back of another application. It's not close to a virus at all, and using such words is nothing more than tabloid-esque scare mongering. It's no different to any number of curious dlls or files that are installed along with retail software, usually for copy protection purposes. It doesn't replicate, it's not a virus. Sorry, but in my opinion, you're way wide of the mark, and just fuelling more needless paranoia. cheers John

JM <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Xns950D60B325ABBM@ 212.159.13.1: > It doesn't replicate, it's not a virus. > well ok, fine. Unasked, unwanted, uneasy to remove, it consumes resources, it moves world-wide, it even leaves behind code after un- installing the host. You are right, it is not a virus. BUT WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? A virus hides on a system, a virus does not ask permission, a virus is by design hard to remove, a virus moves world wide. Just because one chooses unsuspecting consumers vs unsuspecting emailers as a method of distribution, I just don't see any difference. Self- replication is a means of distribution, not a definition of a program. If I choose to ship an item via air cargo or truck it...the end result is the the same...the product gets where I sent it. Even though the method of shipping is vastly different. A year or so ago, Intuit included copy protection on Turbotax that could not be removed, indeed they were so secretive about it, they placed some of the files in an area of the harddrive that windows itself could not access. They finally released a utility that they 'said' removed the offending code, and thus disabling TT, but I had no way of knowing or checking if this was true. A normal virus is easier to locate, easier to remove, and easier on my hardware. So forgive me if I'm inclined to lump secretive, intrusive, code under a broad category. btw...This year I did my taxes for free online. Screw intuit. So again, yes I know it's not a virus. You are very correct in that respect...but the end result is the same. the end result is the same, the end result is the same. dave henrie

Dave, As I tell me daughter when she's being taunted by her evil sibling, "You know what you know." That is, have faith that what you think and that what you're saying is The Truth, no matter how many nit-pickers try to peck it to death with technicalities. I know what you mean (as I told you in an earlier reply). you know what you mean, and so does everybody else who isn't bound by the Ministry of Definitions amd its online minions. IOW, stop being co-dependent, an enabler. Pour yourself three fingers of single malt and relax.... --Avuncular Ol' Steve "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (31 lines)

> JM <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Xns950D60B325ABBM@ > 212.159.13.1: > > > It doesn't replicate, it's not a virus. > > > > well ok, fine. Unasked, unwanted, uneasy to remove, it consumes > resources, it moves world-wide, it even leaves behind code after un- > installing the host. You are right, it is not a virus. BUT WHAT IS THE > DIFFERENCE? A virus hides on a system, a virus does not ask permission, > a virus is by design hard to remove, a virus moves world wide. Just > because one chooses unsuspecting consumers vs unsuspecting emailers as a > method of distribution, I just don't see any difference. Self- > replication is a means of distribution, not a definition of a program. > If I choose to ship an item via air cargo or truck it...the end result is > the the same...the product gets where I sent it. Even though the method > of shipping is vastly different. > A year or so ago, Intuit included copy protection on Turbotax that > could not be removed, indeed they were so secretive about it, they placed > some of the files in an area of the harddrive that windows itself could > not access. They finally released a utility that they 'said' removed the > offending code, and thus disabling TT, but I had no way of knowing or > checking if this was true. A normal virus is easier to locate, easier to > remove, and easier on my hardware. So forgive me if I'm inclined to lump > secretive, intrusive, code under a broad category. btw...This year I did > my taxes for free online. Screw intuit. > So again, yes I know it's not a virus. You are very correct in that > respect...but the end result is the same. the end result is the same, the > end result is the same. > dave henrie >

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:31:13 +0200, "�eon" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Just google for "enigma starforce" starforce 3 protection Ah, just as I said, it installs Starforce, and from reading the support pages it screws up some peoples PC. What a bunch of assholes!