N2: New Track editor being released!

Saw in Sierra's mag Interaction, in Ken Williams' column, that they are working on a track editor fro release in late '97! YEESSSSS!!! Now I can build Tampa, St. Pete, Hialeah, West Palm Beach Fairgrounds, Bradenton, Inverness, Punta Gorda, New Smyrna, Orlando, Pensacola, Volusia County.... Jim Sokoloff: what do you know about this..>?????

The paragraph you were reading was about current games letting the user be creative. It mentioned N2 and ICR2 because both games allowed you to paint your own cars. Notice that the sentence containing the info about "creating the racetrack of our dreams" does not mention either sim. It simply says "Sierra will introduce a racing product........to create the racetrack of our dreams." How do we know their not working on a late 1990's version of R.C. Proam (sorry for the nintendo analogy) for the pc? -- Brian Fox Geocities' MotorCity Community Leader Get your own free homepage at http://www.geocities.com The Fox Den: Nascar 1 and 2, ICR2, GP2 and my Streetrod. http://www.4w.com/pages/fox AND/OR http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1238

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>> Saw in Sierra's mag Interaction, in Ken Williams' column, that they >> are working on a track editor fro release in late '97! YEESSSSS!!! >The paragraph you were reading was about current games letting the user be >creative. It mentioned N2 and ICR2 because both games allowed you to paint >your own cars. Notice that the sentence containing the info about >"creating the racetrack of our dreams" does not mention either sim. It >simply says "Sierra will introduce a racing product........to create the >racetrack of our dreams." How do we know their not working on a late >1990's version of R.C. Proam (sorry for the nintendo analogy) for the pc?

Well, he does say its coming out later this year. ("Later this year, Sierra will introduce a racing product where every racer can create the racetrack of his dreams.") However, I think its for the SODA off-road sim. Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters last month? Now, you must ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

Yes, what he's talking about is the Track Designer that will ship with SODA Off-Road Racing. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

Bathurst, Sandown, Calder, Simons Plains, Eastern Creek, Wanaroo Get the picture . Todd. p.s we can but hope

My guess is that the track editor will be for the SODA sim.

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>> Well, he does say its coming out later this year. ("Later this >>year, Sierra will introduce a racing product where every racer can >>create the racetrack of his dreams.") However, I think its for the >>SODA off-road sim. >Yes, what he's talking about is the Track Designer that will ship with >SODA Off-Road Racing. >Steven Travers >Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing >Papyrus Design Group

When might Papy give us some info on SODA? Thsi title has great potential I think and I would like any kind of info. Thanks.

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>>> Well, he does say its coming out later this year. ("Later this >>>year, Sierra will introduce a racing product where every racer can >>>create the racetrack of his dreams.") However, I think its for the >>>SODA off-road sim. >>Yes, what he's talking about is the Track Designer that will ship with >>SODA Off-Road Racing. >>Steven Travers >>Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing >>Papyrus Design Group >When might Papy give us some info on SODA? Thsi title has great >potential I think and I would like any kind of info. Thanks.

All you need to do is stay tuned to www.sierra.com/papyrus. There's some info and screenshots up there now, and there'll be more very soon. There's also a Question-and-Answer forum (for SODA and one for GPL), where you can send in questions and we'll post them and the answers on the website. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

Mostly for Steven Travers: By the looks of the screenshots for SODA, one can probably just paint panels on the trucks and buggies. It looks like there's just a colour selecter for each of the sections of the truck/buggy. Is there going to be facility for each player in a multiplayer game to "upload" their paint job to the game so everybody sees the chosen colour of the other players? This seems like it could be easily done given the simplicity of the paintjobs...so if I have an all-blue truck, that's what my opponents would see in multiplayer..??? Thanks in advance... Neil -- Neil Yeatman Ajax, Ontario, CANADA My REAL email address is:

On Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:15:51 -0500, Neil Yeatman

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>Mostly for Steven Travers: >By the looks of the screenshots for SODA, one can probably just >paint panels on the trucks and buggies. It looks like there's >just a colour selecter for each of the sections of the >truck/buggy. Is there going to be facility for each player in >a multiplayer game to "upload" their paint job to the game >so everybody sees the chosen colour of the other players? >This seems like it could be easily done given the simplicity >of the paintjobs...so if I have an all-blue truck, that's >what my opponents would see in multiplayer..??? >Thanks in advance... >Neil >-- >Neil Yeatman >Ajax, Ontario, CANADA >My REAL email address is:

We don't have any room in the schedule for doing any kind of paintkit feature, sorry. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

> We don't have any room in the schedule for doing any kind of paintkit > feature, sorry. > Steven Travers > Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing > Papyrus Design Group Oh my the first papy game w/o a paintkit. DOH! -- To all you villans out there I say, knock off all that evil! The Rusty Wallace Miller Lite stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj

> We don't have any room in the schedule for doing any kind of paintkit > feature, sorry. > Steven Travers > Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing > Papyrus Design Group UUUGGGGHHHH! No paintkit?!! No Sponsorhip?!!! NO way!!! NO purchase!! Those trucks look horrible. I know their only preliminary shots, but WE NEED SPONSORS!! Who wants to what a bunch of "Partridge family" looking trucks going around a track. Well, Steve I personally hope you find some time in your schedule to create a paintkit in your program. You will have alot of criticism if not. I hope you can find time in your schedule or I wont find time in my schedule to buy it. Is Papyrus taking a "step" backwards?!!! "8>{ -DG-

Well I hope that they don't if it involves taking some time out of improving the physics or removing the bugs. If a company diverts effort away from what really matters in a sim (driving model) to satisfy the eye candy whiners then I won't be buying the product :( But you are right, they will come in for a lot of criticism if a paint kit isn't included. Strange what some people think is important ;-(( Cheers, Richard

> Well I hope that they don't if it involves taking some time out of > improving the physics or removing the bugs. What, like GP2? Who says they have to devert anything?! Papyrus has a history for creating quality sims that prove to have both convincing "driving" models AND Awesome graphics... Oh thats right Richard your used to playing GP2. My fault. Strange what some people accept... Clorox, -David Gary-

> We don't have any room in the schedule for doing any kind of paintkit > feature, sorry. > Steven Travers Does that mean we won't even be able to choose the colors of our own vehicle? Based on the screenshots...ugggh....I'd like to be able to at least choose my colors. Not looking to have decals and the like, just the colors. Neil -- Neil Yeatman Ajax, Ontario, CANADA My REAL email address is:

On Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:27:44 -0500, David Gary

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>> We don't have any room in the schedule for doing any kind of paintkit >> feature, sorry. >> Steven Travers >> Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing >> Papyrus Design Group >UUUGGGGHHHH! No paintkit?!! No Sponsorhip?!!! NO way!!! NO purchase!! >Those trucks look horrible. I know their only preliminary shots, but >WE NEED SPONSORS!! Who wants to what a bunch of "Partridge family" >looking >trucks going around a track. Well, Steve I personally hope you find >some time in your schedule to create a paintkit in your program. You >will have alot of criticism if not. I hope you can find time in your >schedule or I wont find time in my schedule to buy it. Is Papyrus taking >a "step" backwards?!!! "8>{ >-DG-

Holy smokes, calm down. I said no paintkit. I didn't say no sponsors. The vehicles are going to be fully textured, featuring major real-life sponsors. For crying out loud, the thing's only half done! You say that you know the shots are preliminary--so why are you criticizing them so much? We are able to insert many more features by not having a paintkit in the schedule. If you know of a software engineer that'll work for free and has nothing else to do, then maybe we could have that person do the paintkit. :-) Sorry, but we just can't do everything, or the thing wouldn't get released until 2001, and would cost more money than we'd make. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

Dear Mr. Travers, I know this will be like swearing in the church but i'll have a go anyway. I've been looking at the pics. of SODA on your site and i must say they looked more "arcade'ish" than "sim'ish". I could not see any dashboard with gauges or things like that. The pictures taken from the external-view option showed a tacho (or was it a speedometer) in the lower left corner (or something like that) and from the text displayed read something like "4/9" etc. This reminds me pretty much of an arcade-game i once played. ( i'm NOT saying you guys stole it or something like that) So a question comes to mind; Is SODA a SIM or an ARCADE game ??. Before i put on my 2-layer nomex-dress, i would like to add this; - It might be that these pictures/screenshots are taken while playing in "arcade-mode", if the game does feature one. - I'm living up here in Norway, so other info (i.e Sierra mags. etc.) is hard to come by. I might have missed some vitale info. that you've told others before..... - Paintkit or not, i really don't give a hoop - it's the driving physics that count! -- Best regards, Ed_ - Norway "Early on, the cars were getting faster and faster. And with good reason: everybody was cheating." - Richard Petty

It's just that the dashboard isn't done yet. The shots you've probably seen are just from the replay mode, from a "TV" camera angle. There are several different driving views, including a***pit view, which will have a textured dashboard with working gauges, etc. Visit www.sierra.com/papyrus for info on SODA Off-Road Racing. The text of the InterAction article is reproduced there as well. SODA is very much a sim, with realistic driving physics, and extensive garage setup options. Like NASCAR 2, there will also be an easier-to-drive arcade mode that you can just jump into and go. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

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> > We don't have any room in the schedule for doing any kind of paintkit > > feature, sorry. > > Steven Travers > Does that mean we won't even be able to choose the colors of our > own vehicle? Based on the screenshots...ugggh....I'd like to be > able to at least choose my colors. > Not looking to have decals and the like, just the colors. > Neil

Sorry???!! =8>{ I really think we, as consumers, need to stop asking and start demanding! It amazing how most of the guys that reply to these programers posts' are so stunned to actually get off their ass and say "this is what WE WANT" NOT "are you gona do this are that". WE'RE there ones who buy and play these games. If it werent for the customers these guys wouldnt have a job. Dont take this to personally Ed and Jim. You've given us utilities and overall sheer quality in your sims and we didnt have to demand squat from you guys. Instead Congradulations! The fact of the matter is PAPY's quality programing of sims is exactly why we demand things from these other *** companies. They're just not producing!! SODA is being designed by a "***" *** house under Papy/Sierra name. The coding of mip files instead of polygons isnt that hard. If its a internet connection thing, thats not that hard either. Take MTM for instance! I dont care about "release" dates! All release dates do is threaten the quality and integrity of future sims. I'll wait several more months for a quality sim with ALL the utilities and car "dynamics" we have been given in the past instead of putting up with unacceptable ***for several months after. We need to question *** companies competency when they make statements like, "we didnt add that option due to our schedule". Thats BS in my book. Im an Artist/Graphic Illustrator and if I ever told my clients that I didnt add "this or that" to the work I was commisioned to do for them because I had to get their money quicker to pay the rent then I wouldnt have very many clients left!! Now would I?!!! BTW, Have you seen the screen shots of SODA. Their awfull. I know their still needs to be alot of design, but they look like something created for the c64! If they dont have time to code mips for a paintkit option, what type of time are they gona devote to more important things like, the actual game play, dynamics, control, etc.?!! Its humorous that some of more serious simmers take these SIMs more serious than the DEVELOPERS!!! Well Steve Travers no personal insult towards you, but I dont care if your boss needs to make his next Lexus payment. I demand better or dont expect for me to put any money in your pocket. To bad ole' Dave Kramer(sp?) could'nt come over there and show you guys how to "code" something other than truck models only the Partridge family would drive!! Or hell quality for that matter! The "Teamsters" will make a difference!!! -DG- =8>}

On Wed, 02 Apr 1997 23:51:54 -0500, David Gary

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>Sorry???!! =8>{ >I really think we, as consumers, need to stop asking and start >demanding! It amazing how >most of the guys that reply to these programers posts' are so stunned to >actually get >off their ass and say "this is what WE WANT" NOT "are you gona do this >are that". WE'RE there >ones who buy and play these games. If it werent for the customers these >guys wouldnt have a job. >Dont take this to personally Ed and Jim. You've given us utilities and >overall sheer quality in your >sims and we didnt have to demand squat from you guys. Instead >Congradulations! The fact of the matter is PAPY's quality programing of >sims is exactly why we demand things from these other *** companies. >They're just >not producing!! >SODA is being designed by a "***" *** house under Papy/Sierra >name. The coding of mip files >instead of polygons isnt that hard. If its a internet connection thing, >thats not that hard either. >Take MTM for instance! I dont care about "release" dates! All release >dates do is threaten the quality >and integrity of future sims. I'll wait several more months for a >quality sim with ALL the utilities and >car "dynamics" we have been given in the past instead of putting up with >unacceptable ***for several months >after. >We need to question *** companies competency when they make >statements like, "we didnt add that option due >to our schedule". Thats BS in my book. Im an Artist/Graphic Illustrator >and if I ever told my clients that I didnt add "this or that" to the >work I was commisioned to do for them because I had to get their money >quicker to pay the rent then I wouldnt have very many clients left!! Now >would I?!!! >BTW, Have you seen the screen shots of SODA. Their awfull. I know their >still needs to be alot of design, but they look like something created >for the c64! If they dont have time to code mips for a paintkit option, >what type of time are they gona devote to more important things like, >the actual game play, dynamics, control, etc.?!! Its humorous that some >of more serious simmers take these SIMs more serious than the >DEVELOPERS!!! >Well Steve Travers no personal insult towards you, but I dont care if >your boss needs to make his next Lexus >payment. I demand better or dont expect for me to put any money in your >pocket. To bad ole' Dave Kramer(sp?) >could'nt come over there and show you guys how to "code" something other >than truck models only the >Partridge family would drive!! Or hell quality for that matter! >The "Teamsters" will make a difference!!! >-DG- =8>}

Well, Software Allies isn't a bunch of "free lancers". They're a small company. And this title was not commissioned by you or anyone else, so your graphic illustrator analogy isn't relevant. We are constrained by limited resources. We have a schedule and a budget that we must adhere to. If you don't believe that, then be my guest and sit in here in r.a.s. and call me a liar and claim that I'm feeding everyone "B.S." as you put it. The scope of this project is not the same as something like NASCAR 2, and everyone's just going to have to get past that. NASCAR 2 was able to have a multi-million dollar budget because of very high sales projections. SODA does not, could not, hope to sell as well as NASCAR 2, so it therefore could not be given a budget like NASCAR 2's. That's just the way it is. It may not revolutionize the industry in terms of graphics, but it's going to be a great sim with terrific playability and long-term challenge, good graphics, and a track designer application. I urge you all to try it this fall, and if you're disappointed, then you have 30 days to return it. This isn't a commissioned statue, and we can't sculpt one to each person's specifications, Mr. Gary. You seem to know all about the quality or lack of quality of this title that is only half done. Pretty cool. You're prophetic. Maybe you should wait until it's finished before you pass judgement. I don't why, only because I guess that sounds like a somewhat logical way of doing things. If anyone has any suggestions to offer or questions to ask, instead of insults, accusations, demands and wild assumptions, then please speak up--I'd be glad to engage in discussions about our ongoing creative effort. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

I'm not really concerned about a paint kit (it would be nice, maybe a upgrade later on!) for SODA as long as the bugs, driving model, tracks, I.E. things that count work and work well! BTW is this going to be WIN95 native? If so I think I will cry!!

Resources are finite. If you are willing to pay a lot more for your sims (which btw, I probably would but the mass market wouldn't) then it is reasonable to expect them to get in extra programmers. But that's not reality, is it? Read Steven's response if you refuse to believe me ;-) <yawn> David Gary goes off topic to slag off GP2 - now that really IS original ;-) Cheers, Richard

Well, better start crying then...

> Resources are finite. If you are willing to pay a lot more for your sims > (which btw, I probably would but the mass market wouldn't) then it is > reasonable to expect them to get in extra programmers. But that's not > reality, is it? If you had a clue about product and market, you would know that the better the product the more people would purchase it. Price is irrelevant if the demand is there. In other words to make a little more sense to the needy, price is determined by demand(and competition). If it was hardware then it might be different. because now you have "tangible" costs. Software is different. Theres been plenty of games and sims that were well worth their price. The bottom line is: Competency + efficiency = Quality. Incompetency + "Pressured schedules" = Crappy software. How did I derive at this conclusion, you ask Richard(by the way, may I call you***)? Simple, The things they are NOT offering have been done before? Who?...I dont "refuse" to believe you. I am simply relating information your mental capacities are not aware of. Before you take a nap, read a book on "supply and demand" so I dont have to waste my time replying to drivel. No Richard, I wasnt insulting GP2 or you. Just letting anyone that reads this post know how you derive to your conclusions. =8>} AMF! -DG-

> If anyone has any suggestions to offer or questions to ask, instead of > insults, accusations, demands and wild assumptions, then please speak > up--I'd be glad to engage in discussions about our ongoing creative > effort. Unfortunately, I don't even know what SODA stands for. I've never seen this on the tube, maybe it's one of those things they show on ESPN2 (which I can't get without a dish). Is this the sort of stuff they do in stadiums on the supercross-style tracks? I had a look at the screenshots of the track designer. This looks pretty cool! We can fill up ALT.BINARIES.SIMULATORS.AUTOS with tracks! One other thing: Is the resemblance of the wheels to the original Hot Wheels cars strictly accidental? Or is there going to be a loop the loop in the game? :) Neil -- Neil Yeatman Ajax, Ontario, CANADA My REAL email address is:

> Well, Software Allies isn't a bunch of "free lancers". Subcontracts through other business's names ARE considered "***d". The company designing SODA therefore ARE ***rs OR subcontractors. Same difference. Well Mr. Travers, When I am contracted to do work for a client. I am therefore entitled to do what the client asks of me. My experience and knowledge of my trade is vast and therefore I can apply "traditional" applications that have been accomplished before. You are creating software that does not include "traditional" utilities and applications. So it is your "opinion" that says there is no "relevance" in the comparison and therefore will only be taken by someone who agrees with that opinion. I must truly apologize Mr. Travers. After reading my own post I could see how someone could arrive at the fact that it is "truly" applified. The fact of the matter is, I do it for "the Boys", the guys that wana have the "dream" sim and that includes everything that has been acomplished before and new technologies as well. I do believe that the "sculpture" that I ask for is also asked on a world wide basis. I should have started this discussion with the simple question, "How much are you going to charge for this game?" I would have therefore arrived at a conception of what type of quality and content we would be looking at when it is released. It is obvious that you are not on the budget scale of Papyrus, but one tends to "jump" to conclusions when their name is on the box. You have to understand that when you want money from someone that buy your product you open yourself for criticism. If you ask the market price for the same figure as the sims that offer more content in their games than provided by your company then you will be criticized. Critisim is good in my book, because it gives you different viewpoints and therefore "streamlines" you technique in creating something for the vast "***" population. I based my interpretation of this game by the content it has already shown and concluded my "opinion" on the statements you had made on the lack of content this game will offer. As for the sarcasm, I question your ability as a representative of your company. I can only think that it is a "human" response to my questioning your competency in my previous post. I apologize if I have "passed" judgment. You are correct, this game is not complete. Again my statements were due to what was already said. I certainly hope that my generalization of "release" pressure just woke up a few of the people that read these post as to what threatens the quality of "sims" to come. I certainly hope you didnt take it as an insult. Like I said I should have questioned the "retail" price of this game. Well, what will it be? I only accused what had been said and from past experiences my assumptions werent to "wild" I DO sincerly wish you luck on your project and hope it provides fun to the people who play it. That is if the price tag matches the quality. =8>} -DG-

You tell 'em Steven. What are you making this sim for his own personal use? I think that is what he thinks! I do have one question and it is about the trucks and the makes. Is there going to been Fords,Chevys, Dodges, Toyotas, ETC.. If so will they have each truck distinctive look and design (the new ford, and dodge bodies and the old Chevy bodies) instead of the generic body design of say N2! Will the physics of the different makes feel different? Cause most of the SODA trucks are all different! you know some of the 4x4 SODA trucks have straight(some dodges) axle front suspensions and that can effect the ride and feel allot! Speaking of the 4x4's will they feel allot different than the 2x4 trucks. I mean they should feel heavier(cause they are) and they shouldn't break the rear end loose as much as the 2x4's would. Is there going to be a setup option that uses tread depth and design for various tracks? I.E. a muddy course vs. a dry one requires different tires and compounds. These are just some ideas I'm throwing out to you. Hope you can use them!

Call me whatever you like. But take a tip - what you call someone reflects a lot about you but nothing about the person you are calling ;-) I really like the way that you hang back from flaming someone. Go on, really let go sometime ;-) "Supply and demand" is an oft misused/abused phrase these days :(. Whilst it was applicable in the days when physical resources were hard to come by, it has little obvious relevence in the modern consumer society where factors such as intellectual resources, suppliers choosing what to produce, demand heavily influenced by those same suppliers, etc make a simple interpretaion of "supply and demand" meaninigless. In any case, with racing sims, the "demand" is not for the ultra realism and configurability that you or I may crave. Sad to say it, but it is for a simple product that offers everything out of the box and allows the casual racer to pretend that he is a Schumacher, Andretti or Earnhardt with minimal practise. Thankfully, Papy, GC & co are clearly sim racing fanatics themselves. They therefore produce realistic driving models with lots of configurability. Not because they consider this to be the best way to meet "demand" and make large profits, but because they WANT to. Selfish, inane criticisms will not influence them and, indeed, are only likely to alienate them to the point that they ignore good suggestions. Let's take a real world example. Sticking to the topic of the thread <g>, let's make it whether to include a paintkit or not in SODA Off Road Racing. Papy/Software Allies have to take the following factoers into consideration: (i) will it increase sales? - probably not since most purchasers will never paint their trucks (ii) will it take real effort? - yes if they are to produce a commercial quality utility (iii) do we have a good programmer (and testers)*** around doing nothing or will we need to either employ extra people or extend deadlines? - no small outfit will have someone*** around twiddling their thumbs, so it will be one of the latter cases which means hard cash (iv) can we afford to employ extra people or delay the release (and therefore have to raise a loan etc to pay peoples' salaries)? - no way, unless we will get a LOT of extra revenue as the result (see (i)) (v) as sim racing fanatics, do we think we should do this in anycase even if it involves not drawing any salary for a month? - can't even attempt to answer that one myself as I know nothing about Software Allies So at the end of the day, an extra like a paintkit tends to be more of a personal, altruistic choice by the developer rather than anything that is driven by economics or market forces. Positive suggestions might help, but flames will not help one iota :( Being tactful might help. For instance, I put forward that the majority of sim racers don't want an all singing, all dancing paintkit (as in N2 or ICR2WIN) but the ability for *someone*else* to produce alternative car sets and then be able to import them. So how about the following compromise - don't have a paintkit in the released product, but shortly afterwards, provide an unsupported, "as is" utility for download that would take a .bmp or .pcx file and convert it into the game's internal format? This would provide 90% of the benefit for 10% of the cost and meet 99% of the requirements. Could you live with that? Cheers, Richard

Why don't you add a track pack which enables you to race and create Mickey Thompson stadium tracks? Also simulate Glen Helen Raceway in Riverside Ca., a track from the SODA Winter series? By the way, since this is in a newsgroup, if anyone comes upon this message and responds, send it through email. Christopher

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> Why don't you add a track pack which enables you to race and create Mickey > Thompson stadium tracks? Also simulate Glen Helen Raceway in Riverside > Ca., a track from the SODA Winter series? By the way, since this is in a > newsgroup, if anyone comes upon this message and responds, send it through > email. > Christopher

If they cant produce a "measley" Paintkit because of their "low" budget and schedule, what makes you think they even come close to implementing a track editor?! -DG-

: > : > Why don't you add a track pack which enables you to race and create Mickey : > Thompson stadium tracks? Also simulate Glen Helen Raceway in Riverside : > Ca., a track from the SODA Winter series? By the way, since this is in a : > newsgroup, if anyone comes upon this message and responds, send it through : > email. : > : > Christopher : If they cant produce a "measley" Paintkit because of their "low" budget : and schedule, what makes you think they even come close to implementing : a track editor?! If I understand correctly, a track editor is one of the key components of the SODA sim. Not only that, but they are working on making the AI learn new tracks from analyzing the human driver's attack of the course. Maybe this is why they don't have time to work on a paintkit. I have heard so many people whine about not having a track editor for this or that sim. Now that we are going to have one, we aren't happy, cuz there won't be a paintkit... Damn, if we spent all of the energy we've spent ***ing and moaning in r.a.s. we would have the ultimate racing sim produced by now! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Thu, 03 Apr 1997 14:08:30 -0500, David Gary >If you had a clue about.... > to make a little more sense to the needy.... > (by the way, may I call you***)?..... > I am simply relating information your mental capacities > are not aware of.... > so I dont have to waste my time replying to drivel. David, Sometimes I truly wonder if you are schizophrenic. Honestly. You oscillate wildy between posting sensible conjecture on the one hand, and wildy offensive trash like this on the other. Do us all a favour, READ what you are about to send before you end up in everyone's kill files. I've known Richard for a long time and he is an extremely friendly and HELPFUL guy. You would probably quite like him if you got off this trip you have of being unable to accept that your opinion is not the only one. Cheers! John

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> >If you had a clue about.... > > to make a little more sense to the needy.... > > (by the way, may I call you***)?..... > > I am simply relating information your mental capacities > > are not aware of.... > > so I dont have to waste my time replying to drivel. > David, > Sometimes I truly wonder if you are schizophrenic. Honestly. You > oscillate wildy between posting sensible conjecture on the one hand, > and wildy offensive trash like this on the other.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "My point is that ANYONE can flame someone, it really doesn't take a lot of intelligence to kick out someone's horse." "Sometimes I truly wonder if you are schizophrenic". "David, you are one of the worst people on this group" "I'm positively a Collins compared to yourself". "David, could you maybe ask your mommy for a special Chritmas present this year? Punctuation.........." "Perhaps in your world, not in the real one." Now, lets see, hmmm, the same "author" posted both of these remarks at different times, the former before the latter. Is the fomer true? Can you say h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e? The bottom line, Mr. Wallace, is that any and everything I've read from you lately, posted towards me or anyone else is your analysis of everyone's opinion. I have to admit that I have presented sarcasm and a flame or two, but at the same time have inserted a logical debate or some point in my discussion. I actually respect you to a certain extent for the productivity you have provided in the past to this group. Have you stopped? Have you now just become a anaylist on people's behavior. It seems that is all you have time to reply to. I think the only logical debate we've ever had was if you could hear other engines from the confinements of a Formula one car. Everything else has simply been you "correcting" my typos or your Anal-yzations on my opinions. Have you run out of things to say? It seems this is the proven case. If you really want to discuss something that would be great. But dont post "unproductive" drivel if you ever plan on achieving the repect of the likes of Mike Carver, Eric Bush, and too many others to list. Anyone can scan Deja-news and clip statements out of context. Which might be one of the reasons of your lack of "productivity". It is a fact in your posts that you are friends with Richard and this is a biased reaction towards me for sarcasm in "our" posts directed towards one another. I remember saying in a past post that sometimes I have to "lower" myself in a reply to someone that sometimes has not learned proper etiquette in order for them to understand. It seems that I have had to do this once again. Dito before you end up If you decide to ever "discuss" something worth discussion John, let me know, if not please go ahead and place my address in your kill file. Now if you dont mind, I will go back to listening to "Sweet Home Alabama" and completing a couple of graphics projects. =8>} AMF, -DG-

On Sat, 05 Apr 1997 04:03:40 -0500, David Gary

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>> Why don't you add a track pack which enables you to race and create Mickey >> Thompson stadium tracks? Also simulate Glen Helen Raceway in Riverside >> Ca., a track from the SODA Winter series? By the way, since this is in a >> newsgroup, if anyone comes upon this message and responds, send it through >> email. >> Christopher >If they cant produce a "measley" Paintkit because of their "low" budget >and schedule, what makes you think they even come close to implementing >a track editor?! >-DG-

Because it was part of the schedule from the beginning, and because it's a feature that provides much more utility and is much more desirable to have than a paintkit, simple as that. With a track designer, the long-term challenge and gameplay literally become unlimited. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

Thanks for the feedback, Justin. The vehicle models will be the same within each class, so there won't be more than one 4x4 truck, for instance. The vehicle models aren't strictly duplicating any real corporate models like Fords or Chevys. The capabilities of the vehicles won't differ within a class, but they'll differ (amongst the AI-controlled cars as well) due to different garage setups. So it's along the lines of NASCAR Racing--equally capable vehicles, and it's up to you to tweak the setups (and there'll be some pre-loaded setups, like "novice" and "pro", as well). The 4x4s will feel different than the 2x4s, but I can't say yet precisely how or how much. We have more work and gameplay testing to do there. The last point is good--we have no plans for different tires or tread depths, but we will take a look at the possibility of doing it. Keep the feedback and ideas coming, and email me directly if you'd like to. I keep all email and seriously consider all suggestions, whether it's for what we're working on now, or a possible sequel or future product. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

Hi Christopher-- This is why we've done the track designer. Those tracks should appear online made by someone, and if not, you could try your own hand at it. We hope everyone will like being able to create their own tracks. We definitely plan to have contests for the best tracks created, etc. If you have any ideas, let us know! Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

Bravo! If only all the software companies had this same outlook. -- Brian Fox Geocities' MotorCity Community Leader Get your own free homepage at http://www.geocities.com The Fox Den: Nascar 1 and 2, ICR2, GP2 and my Streetrod. http://www.4w.com/pages/fox AND/OR http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1238

Is there a demo of this game and is the game in stores in Mn? -- To respond by e-mail, remove the "from" from our e-mail address. This is to stop the junk mail autoposts.

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> Thanks for the feedback, Justin. The vehicle models will be the same > within each class, so there won't be more than one 4x4 truck, for > instance. The vehicle models aren't strictly duplicating any real > corporate models like Fords or Chevys. The capabilities of the > vehicles won't differ within a class, but they'll differ (amongst the > AI-controlled cars as well) due to different garage setups. So it's > along the lines of NASCAR Racing--equally capable vehicles, and it's > up to you to tweak the setups (and there'll be some pre-loaded setups, > like "novice" and "pro", as well). > The 4x4s will feel different than the 2x4s, but I can't say yet > precisely how or how much. We have more work and gameplay testing to > do there. > The last point is good--we have no plans for different tires or tread > depths, but we will take a look at the possibility of doing it. > Keep the feedback and ideas coming, and email me directly if you'd > like to. I keep all email and seriously consider all suggestions, > whether it's for what we're working on now, or a possible sequel or > future product. > Steven Travers > Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing > Papyrus Design Group

Why not make a really awsome SCORE Off Road sim with the real trucks, drivers, and courses. The Baja 1000 could be really cool, just don't forget the savegame feature :) Also have weather changes like rain and nighttime driving. -- "To all you villans out there I say, knock off all that evil!" -The Tick The Rusty Wallace Miller Lite stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj

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> >If they cant produce a "measley" Paintkit because of their "low" budget > >and schedule, what makes you think they even come close to implementing > >a track editor?! > >-DG- > Because it was part of the schedule from the beginning, and because > it's a feature that provides much more utility and is much more > desirable to have than a paintkit, simple as that. > With a track designer, the long-term challenge and gameplay literally > become unlimited.

Cool! Now we get to watch our "partridge" family trucks go around more tracks! =8>] > Steven Travers > Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing > ***r of Papyrus Design Group

Not yet. The game won't be out until the Fall, and a demo won't be available until at least the first of August. Steven Travers Associate Producer Papyrus Design Group

Okay, I am going to speak my opinion on track editors AGAIN. WE NEED ONE FOR NASCAR2!!!!!!! I couldnt care less about racing a truck on dirt (a car, yes...). I want to make my "local bull rings" to race my NASCAR on. C'mon, if you can make it for SODA, why not for N2???? Mike Frazer, vocalizing the uncountable number of cries rising up from other NASCAR fans.

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>>Why don't you add a track pack which enables you to race and create Mickey >>Thompson stadium tracks? Also simulate Glen Helen Raceway in Riverside >>Ca., a track from the SODA Winter series? By the way, since this is in a >>newsgroup, if anyone comes upon this message and responds, send it through >>email. >>Christopher >Hi Christopher-- >This is why we've done the track designer. Those tracks should appear >online made by someone, and if not, you could try your own hand at it. >We hope everyone will like being able to create their own tracks. We >definitely plan to have contests for the best tracks created, etc. If >you have any ideas, let us know! >Steven Travers >Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing >Papyrus Design Group

Mike Frazer #11 American Airlines/STP/MBNA Ford, IGN Prime Time Motorsports

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>Okay, I am going to speak my opinion on track editors AGAIN. WE NEED >ONE FOR NASCAR2!!!!!!! I couldnt care less about racing a truck on >dirt (a car, yes...). I want to make my "local bull rings" to race my >NASCAR on. C'mon, if you can make it for SODA, why not for N2???? >Mike Frazer, vocalizing the uncountable number of cries rising up from >other NASCAR fans.

It's not that easy. SODA is a win95 game, and NASCAR 2 isn't, for starters. Secondly, SODA Off-Road Racing is being developed by Software Allies Inc., and is being published by Papyrus. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

> The 4x4s will feel different than the 2x4s, but I can't say yet > precisely how or how much. We have more work and gameplay testing to > do there. Steve, I think I can help you here. I hit myself in the head with a 2x4, then I struck my noggin with a 4x4. When I woke up the next day, I had some recollection of the 2x4, but none of the 4x4. Just some dream of a big fat nurse with a hairy mole on her face extending a spoon toward me and reciting over and over, "It's medication time, it's medication time..." If I can beta test anything else for you, just let me know. :) God Bless, Steve

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> > The 4x4s will feel different than the 2x4s, but I can't say yet > > precisely how or how much. We have more work and gameplay testing to > > do there. > Steve, > I think I can help you here. I hit myself in the head with a 2x4, then > I struck my noggin with a 4x4. When I woke up the next day, I had some > recollection of the 2x4, but none of the 4x4. Just some dream of a big > fat nurse with a hairy mole on her face extending a spoon toward me and > reciting over and over, "It's medication time, it's medication time..." > If I can beta test anything else for you, just let me know. :) > God Bless, > Steve

Absolutelly brilliant post !!!!

Don, just imagine how big that map would be for the Baja 1000!!!