Jim: OFF Road....

1.) Will it be compatible w\ the new thrustmaster force feedback wheel? I know you probably can't give us a firm "yes" or "no" answer, but what are the possibilties? I think it would really make it sell quite a few more copies. 2.) I take it will be a new sim from scratch (engine and all)? I can't imagine an off-road game w\ out your truck\buggy being able to get airborn! At least we get our flips and rolls! Maybe this will carry or to nascar 3, nascar '99 (that's a year by the way since some games are called "USNF '97") or whatever you'll call it. 3.) Will there be differant clases? Not just buggies and trucks, but there are sub-divisions in the trucks too like sport class and super modified or whatever. I Really think this is a cool idea, I'm kinda simed out on stock cars and open wheels stuff for ahwhile. -- --Kai Fuller Senior Writer of IOR (previously INR) GO Thunderbirds!!!!!!! (WHL)

It will be compatible with all force-feedback controllers that use the Immersion (http://www.immerse.com/) I-Force protocol. It may also support more devices, we're not certain yet. Yes, new from the ground up, and win95 native. There'll be three different vehicle classes: Four-Wheel Drive 800 Horsepower Trucks Two-Wheel Drive 800 Horsepower Trucks Two-Wheel Drive 150 Horsepower Buggies here's some more info: --- SODA Off-Road Racing Windows 95 Off-Road Driving Simulation Based on the SODA World Series of Off-Road Racing as seen on ESPN. SODA is the Short Course Off-Road Drivers Association Off-Road Racing Tracks reside in a quarter mile square area, allowing player complete freedom to stay on course or go off-roading. Tracks include numerous driving challenges including jump sequences, off-camber turns, large and quick elevation changes, hairpin turns, and strategically placed trackside objects and race-ending hazards. Three Vehicles to Master Four-Wheel Drive 800 Horsepower Trucks Two-Wheel Drive 800 Horsepower Trucks Two-Wheel Drive 150 Horsepower Buggies Vehicle Setup Set horsepower, gears, transmission, wheel camber, springs, shocks, tire pressure, steering, and weight distribution. Diagnostic tools are available to aid the player in determining optimum vehicle setups for each track. Earn Bonus Tracks and Advance through Six Racing Classes Win the 12-race Championship Series in the current racing class and advance to the next racing class, unlocking a new track to master. Single Races Learn the tracks, test and tune vehicle setups, set track records, and race against computer controlled opponents by selecting opponent strengths from 50 levels of difficulty. Design Tracks The Track Designer allows players to create custom tracks ? design the 3D terrain, lay out the track, assign surface types to the road, lay out puddles and ponds, position cameras, select sky and horizon textures, load and position objects from a directory of provided objects including trees, checkpoints, boulders, billboards, tire barriers, fences, and more. Exchange Custom Tracks Track files may easily be exchanged between players. Opponent Artificial Intelligence Computer controlled opponents learn how to race on your custom track. Force Feedback Joystick Support Six Player Multi-Player Support over a LAN Two Player Multi-Player Support over a Modem Internet World Wide Ranking System 3D Accelerator Support --- stay tuned to www.sierra.com/papyrus for more information. Steven Travers Associate Producer [Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing] Papyrus Design Group

> Steven Travers > Associate Producer [Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing] > Papyrus Design Group WROTE: > > Yes, new from the ground up, and win95 native. No! please! not that! not that! stop it! please! not the WINDOW95!!! Noooooooooo! The pain, the torture, the agony of it all! What are you crazy man?? I want my DOS!!!

> Six Player Multi-Player Support over a LAN REPLY: No no no. Your goin the wrong way. More than 8. Nascar 2 has 8. Q.B.M.

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> >> Six Player Multi-Player Support over a LAN > >REPLY: > >No no no. Your goin the wrong way. More than 8. Nascar 2 has 8. > >Q.B.M. > ...Yes yes yes. This game is not NASCAR 2. NASCAR 2 is not a > win95-native game, either. Please leave it up to us. It is necessary > to limit it to 6 players for many, many reasons. Developing isn't as > easy as you seem to think it is. Do you really think 6 for SODA and 8 > for NASCAR 2 were just arbitrary decisions, pulled out of the air? > Besides, we're not talking about Talladega here--you're in a 1/4-mile > square area on crowded dirt tracks. > Steven Travers > Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing > Papyrus Design Group

This has nothing to do with SODA racing, but is it within the realm of possibility for Sirra/Papyrus to create a SCCA or IMSA racing sim. These cars are truely awesome. The WSC cars are works of art and so are the GT cars. They also run on a variety of courses and most are not ovals like NASCAR, CART (can't call them IndyCar anymore), and IRL race on. I think that this would be a really neat sim. Now that's said I am sorry for posting a message that does not apply to this thread. I thought that this way it would stand a better thought of being read by some of the people that work for this company.

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>> Six Player Multi-Player Support over a LAN >REPLY: >No no no. Your goin the wrong way. More than 8. Nascar 2 has 8. >Q.B.M.

...Yes yes yes. This game is not NASCAR 2. NASCAR 2 is not a win95-native game, either. Please leave it up to us. It is necessary to limit it to 6 players for many, many reasons. Developing isn't as easy as you seem to think it is. Do you really think 6 for SODA and 8 for NASCAR 2 were just arbitrary decisions, pulled out of the air? Besides, we're not talking about Talladega here--you're in a 1/4-mile square area on crowded dirt tracks. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

Steven Travers I would watch your attitude around here if I was you. that was a prettyy *** response for a "Producer" "Leave it up to us" is definetly the wrong attitude to be having around here. That whole reply was a pretty condescending way to respond. You certainly shouldn't keep that up if you want to be welcome in R.A.S. Mike Lewis

Qaz: Steven at Papy: REPLY: Fair enough. If it's really not feasible for this sim than so be it. Also I didn't mind your response at all it seems sincere and I like the one about leave it up to us, well I guess I have no choice. :) It better be good ;? (One eye'd bandit sticking his tounge out) Q.B.M.

(in some other thread, and I'm not picking on him at all; it's just that he brought up the subject... :-) ) For the most part, someone (usually multiple people) from Papyrus will probably read every single post (that gets to our news server) whose subject doesn't obviously exclude it. (For example, I don't read the Make Money Fast or Drive Any Car You Want posts... :-) And I don't read all of the GP2, NFS, X-Car, etc. posts, probably only 25% or so.) Certainly "addressing" a post to me or another Papyrus employee by name is not really needed, as if it appears to relate to our product, I'll read it anyway. (And a question with the subject "N2: Why no random pit stalls?" is more useful to fellow r.a.s. readers than "A question for Jim Sokoloff") So, I'd like to politely ask that people try to remember to make the subject line informative to all readers of r.a.s. rather than trying to improve the chances that a particular person or group will read it. (Of course, if everyone ignores me, no one dies, and I still go on reading all of the relevant posts, just like I always have been... :-) ) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I felt the same way, but give 'em a chance.

<snip> So if you want to talk about Jim behind his back, use a subject line like "New Fuel Additive Doubles Your Gas Mileage!!!" ;) Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

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><snip> >>(For example, I don't read the >>Make Money Fast or Drive Any Car You Want posts... :-) And I don't >>read all of the GP2, NFS, X-Car, etc. posts, probably only 25% or so.) >So if you want to talk about Jim behind his back, use a subject line like >"New Fuel Additive Doubles Your Gas Mileage!!!" ;)

ROTFL, Now, that was pretty good dave! Member -Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

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>Steven Travers >I would watch your attitude around here if I was you. that was a prettyy >*** >response for a "Producer" "Leave it up to us" is definetly the wrong >attitude to be having around here. That whole reply was a pretty >condescending way to respond. >You certainly shouldn't keep that up if you want to be welcome in R.A.S. >Mike Lewis

I am glad to hear a producer telling it like it is. I think it's about time the bullshit stopped. I've had enough of the "That is wrong, you should have done it like this" attitude that so many in r.a.s. exhibit. The producers live and breath "their" products and want them to be the best they can be given the resources available to them. Of course, input from r.a.s. is valuable to the extent that it is constructive. However, imagine the amount of ***that pours forth every single day. Of course Steve, and Papyrus, wants to have the best multiplayer action around. Do you think they haven't spent hours discussing the issue? So...what do you expect from a producer when someone complains about the decision without being fully imformed as to the competing considerations and technical limitations? My .04 cents worth Mike

I don't mind suggestions at all. I actively seek them out. But if you start out like this: "No, no, no. Do it this way--not that way..." Sorry, but that's not exactly *begging* a for courteous, diplomatic, informative reply. I don't know, there's just something about making computer games that's like nothing else. It continues to boggle my mind--people buy a game from a company and think from that moment on that the company "owes" them something for years to come. I'm sure you can imagine all the scathing emails that we receive here, shot off the hip by people that didn't like the omission of this or that little feature. "I can't believe game X is late!" "You had BETTER include feature X and feature Y in an update to game Z or I'm never buying another one of your games again, and I'm going to tell all my friends and every person on Usenet to do the same!!" "I know that this sequel to game X is brand-new from the ground up, and took longer to develop than the original, but you should give it to me for five bucks or you're all jerks!" I mean, these are our creative efforts, endeavours of often two years, our works of art, if you will, that we are presenting to the world to enjoy. Did people write to Francis Ford Coppola and say "You better do such and such in Godfather, Part II, or I won't go see it! And if I do see it, I want to see it for one dollar, because I went to see the first Godfather, so the second one should be practically free!! Dammit!"? No, of course they didn't. Because it was his creative effort, and they let him do it the way he wanted to. Would people have berated him for the movie being completed a few months later than planned? Of course not, they'd want him to take his time and do it right. A thankless job this is, I tell ya!!! (Do you hear violins in the background? And weeping? :-) Well, I'm done blabbing. If anyone has any constructive criticisms or suggestions, I'm more than anxious to read them and respond to them. If you have a "you-better-do-it-this-way-or-else" demand, please re-phrase it or keep it to yourself. -Steve

Look below. See what I mean? There's never a point where everyone is satisfied. Game companies "owe" it to their customers to meet their every future demand... Path: kayrad.ziplink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!129.240.148.41!nntp.uio.no!news.uoregon.edu!disco.iinet.net.au!opera.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Subject: Do the right thing Papyrus Support 3dfx. Date: 24 Mar 1997 07:23:03 GMT Organization: . Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: rap36.nv.iinet.net.au X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Xref: kayrad.ziplink.net rec.autos.simulators:61620 Well from what I can conclude from Sierra and Voodoo heaven is that Sierra has no intention of supporting 3dfx in any dos title, they will however be supporting 3dfx in all w95 titles. So no support for 3dfx in Nascar2. Well I dont think that is good enough. I have bought every Papyrus product to date and since Nascar2 will be my Number 1 race sim untill Nascar3 I would like to see it Improved along the way. 3dfx support seams to be the inhancement most companies are opting for. So send in that mail to Sierra. Todd

> It continues to boggle my mind--people buy a game from a company and > think from that moment on that the company "owes" them something for > years to come. I think *most* computer game customers feel only that the product they bought should be "completed", not "rushed out the door in a nearly complete state that'll help us balance the books come fiscal year-end". If the game ships in an unfinished form, then, yes...the company owes them something. A patch. Or a series of patches until it's a finished product. My only suggestion is that when SODA comes out, make sure it's done right. Don't just get it out the door for Christmas. That's all the majority of us want. SODA sure sounds like it might be fun, and a track editor to boot! Neil -- Neil Yeatman Ajax, Ontario, CANADA My REAL email address is:

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>>Well, I'm done blabbing. If anyone has any constructive criticisms or >>suggestions, I'm more than anxious to read them and respond to them. >>If you have a "you-better-do-it-this-way-or-else" demand, please >>re-phrase it or keep it to yourself. >My heart bleeds ;o) Games aren't the least bit like movies anyway, games >are much more like the latest CD from your favourite (major label) band. A >much more emotive issue. You may be artists but you are constrained by >commercialism and the need to satisfy your audience. >How about these for starters:- >Punters do not have to buy a new CD player to play the latest upcoming >title from their favourite band as it was meant to be heard. This is after >buying a different one a few months ago to hear the last album in all it's >glory. >Bands do not release an album knowing side two is incomplete and promising >they'll fix that sometime "soon". >Who ever heard of a album that had an appallingly complicated, manual menu >system if more than one person wanted to listen to it at the same time? >If you want to hold yourself up as an artist comparable with a successful >film director or similar then you really ought to make sure your production >values are up to the high standards we enjoy from these other media. From >where I stand they fall woefully short of Hollywood, and are light years >away from the music business. >-- >Derek James

Nice post, but totally irrelevant. First of all, neither I nor the person I was responding to said one single thing about patches or incomplete software. The original poster simply said "No no no. 8 players not 6. Do it this way." In my post which you responded to, I talked about people demanding every-feature-under-the-sun-or-else, and demanding that sequels should cost little or nothing if you bought the original game, etc. So, you're way off-topic. Why you bring up the idea of music albums being incomplete, I don't know. Where in this discussion thread were we talking about incomplete games? Of course one should be upset if they get a game home and a listed, advertised feature isn't present. But, what does that have to do with anything that I said??? Same answer. Why are you typing this in response to my post? Different topic entirely. (I didn't know audio CDs had user interfaces, either. :-) I was making an *indirect* comparison about creative output. Not about defective or difficult-to-use products. It's not really possible for CDs and movies to contain bugs or a complicated user interface. By the very nature of the media, manufacturers don't have to be concerned about producing for hundreds of different incompatible pieces of equipment--it's all standard. Not so, of course with computers. Ask 100 engineers if they've ever seen a totally bug-free game, and 100 of them will say no. So, extending the analogy in that direction is pointless, with regard to my post. We were talking about other stuff! Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:57:45 -0500, Neil Yeatman

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>> It continues to boggle my mind--people buy a game from a company and >> think from that moment on that the company "owes" them something for >> years to come. >I think *most* computer game customers feel only that the product >they bought should be "completed", not "rushed out the door in a nearly >complete state that'll help us balance the books come fiscal year-end". >If the game ships in an unfinished form, then, yes...the company >owes them something. A patch. Or a series of patches until it's >a finished product.

Hi Neil, I agree with what you said here. But, I was talking about other demands. See my other post, sent a few minutes before this one. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group

...

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>I could go for the cheap shot and wonder why you chose to ignore that >opportunity but I prefer to make a constructive suggestion that may help. >Why not open out the beta and play testing program with this release? Get >more average punters playing the game, as well as the usual crew of die >***-line racers, and address those interface, hardware requirements, >feature and production issues that matter to the casual player before the >game hits the streets. >-- >Derek James

Hm, What is it that makes you think we aren't doing all that already? :-) Steve

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>I could go for the cheap shot and wonder why you chose to ignore that >opportunity but I prefer to make a constructive suggestion that may help. >Why not open out the beta and play testing program with this release? Get >more average punters playing the game, as well as the usual crew of die >***-line racers, and address those interface, hardware requirements, >feature and production issues that matter to the casual player before the >game hits the streets. >>What is it that makes you think we aren't doing all that already? :-) >The smile at the end of your sentence, and the awkward interface in N2. It >really isn't simple to add your own name and set up multiplayer games >properly. >-- >Derek James

Derek, we already do all of these things and more. Have been for some time. This is a totally different game than NASCAR 2, being developed by an outside development house, Software Allies Inc. I'm not sure what my smile could have had to do with your reasoning. The smile was there because I'm amused at the huge assumptions you're making about a product that isn't going to be released until the fall. Steven Travers Producer, SODA Off-Road Racing Papyrus Design Group