Well, Papy has lost the Indy fight as well...

Saw a news item on Headline News from some tech show; Sega is going to have an "Indy 500" motion arcade game. Looks a lot like the Daytona game graphically, except the cars are now Indy cars, and you sit in a mockup of the car and the whole thing wiggles in relation to the screen. But you know DAMN well they got exclusive rights to that name as well. I think they do the rights thing just to block Papyrus from producing the real thing.. Why don't Papy produce an arcade game? Let's take it to them! -- Later. -Mark Mark Gums, Service Engineer

Who really gives a shit about daytona and indy. Just 2 more tracks. I'd be disapointed if Talladega, Bristol or Atlanta were missing from Nascar. Indy would be about like Loudon except 4 straights. Why does everyone spend so much time dwelling on the indy/daytona issue??

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> Who really gives a shit about daytona and indy. Just 2 more tracks. I'd > be disapointed if Talladega, Bristol or Atlanta were missing from Nascar. > Indy would be about like Loudon except 4 straights. Why does everyone > spend so much time dwelling on the indy/daytona issue?? > > Sega is going to have an "Indy 500" motion arcade game. Looks a lot like > > the Daytona game <snip>

Indy is like LOUDON???? EXUSE ME!! Not! Indy is the capitol of all auto racing and being from Indiana myself, I take that as an insult. I also give a shit about Daytona because it is one of the most famous tracks in the world. Bill Hutson

>> Who really gives a shit about daytona and indy. Just 2 more tracks. I'd >> be disapointed if Talladega, Bristol or Atlanta were missing from Nascar. >> Indy would be about like Loudon except 4 straights. Why does everyone >> spend so much time dwelling on the indy/daytona issue?? >> > Sega is going to have an "Indy 500" motion arcade game. Looks a lot like >> > the Daytona game <snip> >Indy is like LOUDON???? EXUSE ME!! Not! Indy is the capitol of all auto >racing and being from Indiana myself, I take that as an insult. I also >give a shit about Daytona because it is one of the most famous tracks in >the world. >Bill Hutson damnit if you want those two tracks so bad, go make your own or pay 5 million to papyrus to get the right of those two tracks.

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> Who really gives a shit about daytona and indy. Just 2 more tracks. I'd > be disapointed if Talladega, Bristol or Atlanta were missing from Nascar. > Indy would be about like Loudon except 4 straights. Why does everyone > spend so much time dwelling on the indy/daytona issue?? > > Sega is going to have an "Indy 500" motion arcade game. Looks a lot like > > the Daytona game <snip>

Hmm those are only the 2 biggest damn races of the year. That might have a little to with it. -- To all you villans out there I say, knock off all that evil! The Rusty Wallace Miller Lite stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj

On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:06:51 -0500, Bill Hutson >Indy is like LOUDON???? EXUSE ME!! Not! Indy is the capitol of all auto >racing and being from Indiana myself, I take that as an insult. I also >give a shit about Daytona because it is one of the most famous tracks in >the world. That's typical. In Europe (and I think the rest of the world) Indycar racing is considered to be pretty boring. So speak for the USA, not for the world...

>>> Who really gives a shit about daytona and indy. Just 2 more tracks. I'd >>> be disapointed if Talladega, Bristol or Atlanta were missing from Nascar. >>> Indy would be about like Loudon except 4 straights. Why does everyone >>> spend so much time dwelling on the indy/daytona issue?? <...> Hey, I'm from Louden, *the* capitol of all auto racing... and I take that as an insult ;) OK, ok, let's just face a couple things. While Daytona is *the* superbowl of NASCAR, NASCAR isn't what put IMS on the map. Anyone remember what did? A painful memory... Daytona certainly is a loss to Papy's NASCAR, though. Fact is, Daytona has other big, international races too; it is a world-class racetrack. It would be interesting if CART could race Daytona in lieu of IMS. What are the precise reasons why this would be impossible, anybody know? Good one!

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>On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:06:51 -0500, Bill Hutson >>Indy is like LOUDON???? EXUSE ME!! Not! Indy is the capitol of all auto >>racing and being from Indiana myself, I take that as an insult. I also >>give a shit about Daytona because it is one of the most famous tracks in >>the world. >That's typical. In Europe (and I think the rest of the world) Indycar >racing is considered to be pretty boring. So speak for the USA, not >for the world...

I think he was talking about NASCAR. But anyway, do you care to explain to us why "europeans" consider Indycar "boring"? I mean, there is passing in Indycar- that would at least be a novelty for a European F1 fan. How much passing did you see last year in the top 6 of any race? Outside of start and pits, I can't think of any! In CART, immediately I can think of many big passes- Zanardi in the corkscrew at Laguna Seca on the last lap of the last race is a pretty damn good example. The impression here, as I see it, is that europeans don't find the Indy formula "boring", but something of a threat, being an American form and having more powerful cars with more stable close-racing parameters. And some of the best drivers in the world. The exciting part of F1 races is the starts. Sort of like our "drag racing"... but admittedly, we don't have eddi irvine!

A CART Indycar (the only REAL kind) would have about a 260 MPH AVERAGE lap time at Daytona, because of the banking. At that speed, an Indycar generates enough kinetic energy to launch the car 1/4 mile straight up. Obviously, any car to car contact at speeds like this would be catastrophic, and a wall impact would be devastating, even with the advanced safety features on the current cars. Basically, Indycars are way too fast for Daytona ... Mike

If you want to slow the cars down, you could make them run restrictor plates - you know - large steel plates an inch thick and maybe 2-feet square that are towed about 5 feet behind the car. Besides slowing the cars down, it would make passing real interesting...

I read that early on 'Indy' cars did run at Daytona (back when I think they were called 'Champ' cars (a longgggg time ago) and atleast one driver was killed there. It was deemed too dangerous and they haven't been back since. Akh <SNIP>

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>> > Daytona certainly is a loss to Papy's NASCAR, though. Fact is, Daytona >> > has other big, international races too; it is a world-class racetrack. >> > It would be interesting if CART could race Daytona in lieu of IMS. >> > What are the precise reasons why this would be impossible, anybody >> > know? >> A CART Indycar (the only REAL kind) would have about a 260 MPH AVERAGE >> lap time at Daytona, because of the banking. At that speed, an Indycar >> generates enough kinetic energy to launch the car 1/4 mile straight up. >> Obviously, any car to car contact at speeds like this would be >> catastrophic, and a wall impact would be devastating, even with the >> advanced safety features on the current cars. Basically, Indycars are >> way too fast for Daytona ... >If you want to slow the cars down, you could make them run restrictor >plates - you know - large steel plates an inch thick and maybe 2-feet >square that are towed about 5 feet behind the car. >Besides slowing the cars down, it would make passing real >interesting...

Didn't the Chevy boys want to do this to the Fords to give the chevys a chance? Mike

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>> > Daytona certainly is a loss to Papy's NASCAR, though. Fact is, Daytona >> > has other big, international races too; it is a world-class racetrack. >> > It would be interesting if CART could race Daytona in lieu of IMS. >> > What are the precise reasons why this would be impossible, anybody >> > know? >> A CART Indycar (the only REAL kind) would have about a 260 MPH AVERAGE >> lap time at Daytona, because of the banking. At that speed, an Indycar >> generates enough kinetic energy to launch the car 1/4 mile straight up. >> Obviously, any car to car contact at speeds like this would be >> catastrophic, and a wall impact would be devastating, even with the >> advanced safety features on the current cars. Basically, Indycars are >> way too fast for Daytona ... >If you want to slow the cars down, you could make them run restrictor >plates - you know - large steel plates an inch thick and maybe 2-feet >square that are towed about 5 feet behind the car. >Besides slowing the cars down, it would make passing real >interesting...

LOL! Actually, they would do what they do at Michigan, lower the setting on the popoff valves to restrict the turbo boost, which gives pretty much the same effect as a restrictor plate on a turbocharged, fuel-injected engine. Restrictor plates only work on normally aspirated engines. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

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> > Daytona certainly is a loss to Papy's NASCAR, though. Fact is, Daytona > > has other big, international races too; it is a world-class racetrack. > > It would be interesting if CART could race Daytona in lieu of IMS. > > What are the precise reasons why this would be impossible, anybody > > know? > A CART Indycar (the only REAL kind) would have about a 260 MPH AVERAGE > lap time at Daytona, because of the banking. At that speed, an Indycar > generates enough kinetic energy to launch the car 1/4 mile straight up. > Obviously, any car to car contact at speeds like this would be > catastrophic, and a wall impact would be devastating, even with the > advanced safety features on the current cars. Basically, Indycars are > way too fast for Daytona ... > Mike

To expand on this in the 50's I believe they tested there but had a horrible crash that killed the driver. Basically Daytona is waayyyy to fast for indy cars to run safly. Obi-Wan PS The IRL isn't that bad.

> If you want to slow the cars down, you could make them run restrictor > plates - you know - large steel plates an inch thick and maybe 2-feet > square that are towed about 5 feet behind the car. > Besides slowing the cars down, it would make passing real > interesting... ROTFL! Excellent...hang on, still wiping my eyes... :) Or as an alternative, have them tow an IRL car behind 'em. You could even let the IRL boys run the engines for extra noise. Maybe the race could be the first CART car to "lose" his IRL car will win the race! This might be a lot of fun in Detroit, too. Neil -- ---- ------ -------- ---------- ------------ -------------- Neil Yeatman Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

Just got a Compaq 120 pentium w/ 32 meg of ram, and just found out about driving sims. 1 What should I buy, nascar, f1 etc? 2 What kind of controler to go with it (under $100.00 pls) 3 Will I have to upgrade any cards ? Any other advice. TIA

> I read that early on 'Indy' cars did run at Daytona (back when I think > they were called 'Champ' cars (a longgggg time ago) and atleast one > driver was killed there. It was deemed too dangerous and they haven't > been back since. > Akh Actually, the first driver to lose his life at Daytona was Marshall Teague, a local NASCAR hero who was testing an Indy prototype. The car slammed into the wall between turns one and two, and completely broke apart. Teague was launched (still strapped to the drivers seat) 150-200 feet in the air. This happened just days after the speedway opened. God Bless, Steve

<...> <...> That is a good point. Fact is, though, it was pointed out to my by ABC television last year that indycars could be easily doing laps over *300* MPH if they were given free reign on various design features, primarily in the area of downforce. But that is simply *way* too dangerous, for spectators and for pilots. Daytona would be a pretty exciting alternative to IMS for CART. So far, the reasons I hear here don't quite cut it, since it would be possible to limit speed to the, say, 230 range like IMS and Michigan. Could it be that NASCAR has some sort of unwritten "rights" over Daytona? I mean, F1 won't race anywhere Indycars do (wonder why?)- maybe NASCAR has its own special hold over Daytona. Michigan is great, but for whatever reason (maybe age), it just isn't a Daytona or an IMS. I notice there is only one CART race at Michigan this year, unlike the two last year.

: Just got a Compaq 120 pentium w/ 32 meg of ram, and just found out about : driving sims. : 1 What should I buy, nascar, f1 etc? : 2 What kind of controler to go with it (under $100.00 pls) : 3 Will I have to upgrade any cards ? : Any other advice. TIA I think to start with, go for the race sim that you follow most. If you are a NASCAR fan, you won't go wrong if you go for NASCAR Racing 2 (don't even think about buying the first version). However, if you really dig Formula 1 racing, go for Grand Prix II. After you get into one and still enjoy the sim, go ahead a pop for the other one. If you are really a fanatic, you might want to go out and find a copy of Indycar Racing II. However, if you aren't really a race sim junkie, wait until some of the newer sims come out. As for a controller under $100.00.... Wait until there is a sale on Thrustmaster's T2 or their Grand Prix wheel. They usually go for around $99.00 (US) at places like Best Buy or Computer City when ever they have a sale. As for cards... Well that depends on which sim you pick up first. If you go for NASCAR 2, look for a Rendition (Verite) based card. Besides, both Sierra's and Intergraph's card come with IndyCar Racing II. The combo between NASCAR 2/Indycar 2 and the Rendition board will really make your system rock if can handle DMA on the PCI side. If you opt for Grand Prix II, get the fastest video card you can afford, as this sim really sucks the juices out of your video and CPU. Welcome to the club!!! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> Just got a Compaq 120 pentium w/ 32 meg of ram, and just found out about > driving sims. > 1 What should I buy, nascar, f1 etc? > 2 What kind of controler to go with it (under $100.00 pls) > 3 Will I have to upgrade any cards ? > Any other advice. TIA IMHO, Gran Prix II from Microprose/Spectrum Holobyte it the most realistic sim...I own N1, Indycar, IndycarII, Power F1, and have played the n2 demo, and these all have downfalls which keep me from playing them alot. With the N1,2 and Indy1,2 the major downfall is the computer controled cars which react unnaturally when I try to pass. With Power F1, I couldn't get the controls set up properly on my computer(no brakes) which decreased my enjoyment. Gran Prix is not without it's problems, but I can live with them(happily) Steve

: Who really gives a shit about daytona and indy. Just 2 more tracks. I'd : be disapointed if Talladega, Bristol or Atlanta were missing from Nascar. : Indy would be about like Loudon except 4 straights. Why does everyone : spend so much time dwelling on the indy/daytona issue?? Here is a quote from the great 20th Century philosopher Steven Wright: "I watched the Indy 500, and I was thinking that if they left earlier they wouldn't have to go so fast." -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> Just got a Compaq 120 pentium w/ 32 meg of ram, and just found out about > driving sims. > 1 What should I buy, nascar, f1 etc? > 2 What kind of controler to go with it (under $100.00 pls) > 3 Will I have to upgrade any cards ? > Any other advice. TIA The first question is easy: You shouldn't have any trouble with your machine's ability to run sims (I use a PB w/P75, so you've got more horspower then I do!) As for which sim: Wow Paul, that's a tough question to answer. I have several different racing sims, and each is so different. Really, I think it comes down to what you like best. As a general rule, the Nascar sims offer close,fun racing on the ovals (I stink on the Nascar road courses). The open wheel cars are more responsive, and perhaps because of this I can do better on road courses with them. I enjoy both forms (Nascar and open wheel) of racing sims, but lean toward the Nascar side because I happen to like Nascar a bunch. As for what's best for you... only you can find that out! As for controls, again, it depends. Joysticks are pretty inexpensive, and will certainly come in under your target price. However, once I switched over to a wheel/pedal combo... I never looked back. There's *no comparison* between the driving experience a good wheel on a good sim offers over a joystick on the same sim. As for wheel/pedal prices, I think I've read on this newsgroup that some Best Buy stores are having a sale on the Thrustmaster T2 wheel/pedal for $99. That's the wheel I've used for the past year or more. Concerning your last question, I'm no expert on that sort of stuff, but IMHO you should be fine, card wise.

> In CART, > immediately I can think of many big passes- Zanardi in the corkscrew > at Laguna Seca on the last lap of the last race is a pretty damn good > example. Did you catch the Letterman line on RPM2Night a few weeks ago? "Alex must have been drunk" After the first two corners it is rather predictable. No but we do have the Andrettis :-) John -- John "aka' Deliveryboy http://www.mindspring.com/~deliveryboy/index.htm http://www.mindspring.com/~deliveryboy/1666/nascar.htm http://www.mindspring.com/~deliveryboy/Captures/index.htm -- "Where's my Snappy?" --

> I read that early on 'Indy' cars did run at Daytona (back when I think > they were called 'Champ' cars (a longgggg time ago) and atleast one > driver was killed there. It was deemed too dangerous and they haven't > been back since. > Akh Are you sure it was Daytona Akh? I think I heard somewhere that a driver was killed at Talley when the indycar he was driving snapped in half while practicing. Could someone verify this. The neat thing is we can kinda get a feel of what its like to run at Daytona,..oops Talladega thanks to ole' Gerhard and ICR2! -DG-

> Didn't the Chevy boys want to do this to the Fords to give the chevys a chance? > Mike Are you kidding?!! Fords have just now been able to stand a chance against the Monte Carlos on the superspeedways! Jarret won it last year because of all the whinning the Ford fellas were giving and NASCAR gave the chevys more limitations!! -DG-

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> <...> > .snip. > Daytona would be a pretty exciting alternative to IMS for CART. So > far, the reasons I hear here don't quite cut it, since it would be > possible to limit speed to the, say, 230 range like IMS and Michigan. > Could it be that NASCAR has some sort of unwritten "rights" over > Daytona? I mean, F1 won't race anywhere Indycars do (wonder why?)- > maybe NASCAR has its own special hold over Daytona.

.snip. Well, NASCAR *owns* Daytona. I guess that would qualify as "it's own special hold." Bill France built Daytona. As to why CART doesn't race there, I think speed is the main reason. It's not just the size of the track either, if that we're the case restricting turbo boost might work, but the banking is a consideration as well. I don't know the details, but the gist is that CART's cars wouldn't be safe running on that steep banking. Also, Nascar is affiliated with Tony George by way of the Brickyard and that probably is also a factor, ie. CART and NASCAR aren't on real friendly terms. -- Ed "A friend of mine suggested I try America Online, I said 'But I already have a computer...'"

On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:09:18 -0500, Ed Benson

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>> Daytona would be a pretty exciting alternative to IMS for CART. So >> far, the reasons I hear here don't quite cut it, since it would be >> possible to limit speed to the, say, 230 range like IMS and Michigan. >> Could it be that NASCAR has some sort of unwritten "rights" over >> Daytona? I mean, F1 won't race anywhere Indycars do (wonder why?)- >> maybe NASCAR has its own special hold over Daytona. >Well, NASCAR *owns* Daytona. I guess that would qualify as "it's own >special hold." Bill France built Daytona.

Strictly speaking, that's not correct. NASCAR (the sanctioning body) doesn't own Daytona (the race track). International Speedway Corp owns Daytona. It happens that a lot of NASCAR and a lot of ISC are owned by the same people, but that doesn't make your statement true... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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> On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 20:09:18 -0500, Ed Benson > >> Daytona would be a pretty exciting alternative to IMS for CART. So > >> far, the reasons I hear here don't quite cut it, since it would be > >> possible to limit speed to the, say, 230 range like IMS and Michigan. > >> Could it be that NASCAR has some sort of unwritten "rights" over > >> Daytona? I mean, F1 won't race anywhere Indycars do (wonder why?)- > >> maybe NASCAR has its own special hold over Daytona. > >Well, NASCAR *owns* Daytona. I guess that would qualify as "it's own > >special hold." Bill France built Daytona. > Strictly speaking, that's not correct. NASCAR (the sanctioning body) > doesn't own Daytona (the race track). International Speedway Corp owns > Daytona. It happens that a lot of NASCAR and a lot of ISC are owned by > the same people, but that doesn't make your statement true... > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I THINK the reason they dont run there is because the suspension on an indy car, cart type car wouldnt be able to handle the banking and speeds. just the track alone being so bumpy im sure would make it hard for indy cars....

How 'bout having the CART guys drive on the DAytona road course? This would be very interesting...

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>> I read that early on 'Indy' cars did run at Daytona (back when I think >> they were called 'Champ' cars (a longgggg time ago) and atleast one >> driver was killed there. It was deemed too dangerous and they haven't >> been back since. >> Akh >Are you sure it was Daytona Akh?

Yes, and it wasn't just Teague, but George Amick (the guy who beat AJ for 500 ROTY honors in '58) in the Indycar race itself. Earl

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>On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:06:51 -0500, Bill Hutson >>Indy is like LOUDON???? EXUSE ME!! Not! Indy is the capitol of all auto >>racing and being from Indiana myself, I take that as an insult. I also >>give a shit about Daytona because it is one of the most famous tracks in >>the world. >That's typical. In Europe (and I think the rest of the world) Indycar >racing is considered to be pretty boring. So speak for the USA, not >for the world...

No you cant speak for the rest of the world as here in Australia there is a lot of interest in Indycars. That is why we host the Indy Carnival on the Gold Coast. Dont get me wrong as I like F1 as well but in F1 it tends to get a bit boring when there is up to 20 seconds between cars. Indycars tend to be a hell of a lot closer and 80% to 90% of the time you cant pick the winner till the last couple of laps. Shane Lansky Hobart,Tasmania Australia

>That's typical. In Europe (and I think the rest of the world) Indycar >racing is considered to be pretty boring. I don't think that many Europeans find IndyCar boring - if you enjoy racing then it is mighty fine to watch (as is NASCAR) European perceptions of the US championships may be shaped by the following : - There are still many people who have no access to cable or satellite TV. The remaining channels have pretty poor coverage of motor racing in general, let alone the US series - Europeans have trouble understanding oval racing, because all our circuits are wiggly - few Europeans are familiar with the drivers and their personalities (except drivers from their country and big name ex-F1 racers) - Like any sport it takes time before you really appreciate it - give it a chance and it will grow on you This is just my opinion. I'm European and I thoroughly enjoy IndyCar and NASCAR, but then again, I like all motor sport !

> >That's typical. In Europe (and I think the rest of the world) Indycar > >racing is considered to be pretty boring. Well for an "open wheel" sport that has more passing, higher speeds, races on both superspeedways, one milers, road AND street curcuits than any other series, it seems you have not seen much racing from a global standpoint. As for your thoughts of the "rest of the world" well it obvious you have got that information from a "guess" because of your own opinion. Take it from someone who loves F1, CART, Nascar, IMSA and , yes even school bus racing!(g) -David Gary- "8>}

<snip> > This is just my opinion. I'm European and I thoroughly enjoy IndyCar > and NASCAR, but then again, I like all motor sport ! Well said! While I am not European, I find that I am still somehow able to enjoy F1. I, too, enjoy watching most any form of motor racing, although I do hold a special place in my heart for motorized bar-stool racing! --Marcus

> Take it from someone who loves F1, CART, Nascar, IMSA and , yes even > school bus racing!(g) Racing's racing. As long as it's competive, I enjoy it. I've even watched riding lawnmower races cuz they had lots of passing and lead changes. ;) -- Aaron Martin Auto Racing http://walden.mo.net/~aaronm/amar.html #73 AMAR Pontiac (IGN NETCAR) #73 AMAR Dodge (IGN Trucks) #73 AMAR Lola/Honda (FTC)

> > but admittedly, we don't have eddi irvine! > No but we do have the Andrettis :-) And also King Hiro :) He should be in F1. It would be so funny. Think of it. JVilleneuve going to lap him another time and BOOM! he don't let him pass and the two ofd them crash. And after we here in the radio "tabarnak de cave ste Hiro l" (It's normal that you don't understand this is French slang from Quebec). It's like the Mansell famous line but translated in French. Thanks a lot, Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/2804/index.html http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

There are three disadvantages about GP cars... 1. They're too darn noisy... 2. The racing is IRL-like sometimes even with the talent 3. Too expensive 4. More stupid gravel "end-your-day" areas 5. Too large 6. Never goes above 200 MPH 7. Pit stops don't help decide the race 80% of the time Christopher http://members.aol.com/ROSCS

~~~~ read "most" there ;-) Remember the farce ITV did when Mansell went to Indy? Half an hour a week with no more than 5 minutes action. Really gave a good impression of the racing, NOT :( LOL! This is where the sims help a lot <g> Watching NASCAR on Eurosport I can root for Jarret, Earnhardt etc because I "know" them from N2. But without N2 they would just be some guys racing round an oval ;-) Hear, hear! All sports can seem pointless to a casual glance, but when you get into the intricacies, no sport, let alone a form of motor racing is without its good points (tractor pulling excluded <g>) Same here - except tractor pulling! ;-)) Cheers, Richard

Three, huh...? And that's a BAD thing? Ever hear the new IRL cars? Huh? Explain IRL-like. You're complimenting F1, aren't you? IRL is great! So is karting. That's why we go to sims. :-) SO DON'T DRIVE INTO A GRAVEL TRAP!!! What, the circuits? Whoa, ever see Hockenheim or Monza? decides an F1 race!!! Give me some better reasons... -John :|:

The only thing I really share is that IRL sucks!!!!!!! -- Manuel Pazo Caracas, VENEZUELA

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> > >That's typical. In Europe (and I think the rest of the world) Indycar > > >racing is considered to be pretty boring. > Well for an "open wheel" sport that has more passing, higher speeds, > races on both superspeedways, one > milers, road AND street curcuits than any other series, it seems you > have not seen much racing from a global standpoint. As for your thoughts > of the "rest of the world" well it obvious you have got that information > from a "guess" because of your own opinion. > Take it from someone who loves F1, CART, Nascar, IMSA and , yes even > school bus racing!(g) > -David Gary- "8>}

I really don't understand why you guys talking about apples and ranges... what are you trying to say ? that your opinion is better than other ? I like F - 1 , somebody else likes Indycar....fine....life goes on...The grass is not gonna get any greener... Peter

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> There are three disadvantages about GP cars... > 1. They're too darn noisy... > 2. The racing is IRL-like sometimes even with the talent > 3. Too expensive > 4. More stupid gravel "end-your-day" areas > 5. Too large > 6. Never goes above 200 MPH > 7. Pit stops don't help decide the race 80% of the time > Christopher > http://members.aol.com/ROSCS

IRL! IRL! IRL! IRL! Man, those new V-8's sound AWESOME!!! Too bad they can't hold together...Tony Stewart might have a chance at Indy then!!!

: IRL! IRL! IRL! IRL! Man, those new V-8's sound AWESOME!!! Too bad : they can't hold together...Tony Stewart might have a chance at Indy : then!!! : You actually LIKE the sound of the new IRL cars? NASCAR V8's sound soooooo much sweeter. -Dirt-

Have you seen an IRL race in person? or just TV? Those 'AWESOME' new V-8's are simply unbearable to the human ear! Many people left the Phoenix race after the first warmup because they could not take the incredible decibel level brought on by 22 screaming cars!

I apologize to Richard Manning for comparing him to the IRL. But now here's my posting to my thread. Tony George thought that hiring nobrand drivers (with the exception of Tony Stewart and others , including Jim Guthrie (maybe))would help his league. Having no sponsored races excluding the TrueValue 200. 8 finishers. And more... I hope that soon this stupid cheap league dies. Even though some people may defend the IRL, it has a very very bad motive. Look at NASCAR. Miracles have happened more often because of the evenness. However, IRL just made that theory even worse by using non-American engines (like CARt, but more apparent), unreliable cars (See Phoenix '96 and '97, and the W.D.World '97), and more. So I put up in favor of CARt. I wonder why Bruton Smith wasted his time with the IRL. CART has a better market, is more favored, and is way more interesting. By the way, I hope that there is a cart race at Daytona. Christipher

I created the original thread, and I say that IRL's engines are biting off(i mean imitating)the NASCAR engines!!! They end up sounding sucky unlike NASCAR, which sounds more real. Also, the IRL uses engines that aren't supposed to sound like NASCAR(i mean nissan engines(infiniti))!!! little league. Christopher http://members.aol.com/ROSCS ---------------------------------------------------- Dale Earnhardt: "Hey Ron...It's Earnhardt...your wife called...said sumpn' 'bout an anneversary..." Ron Hornaday "Aww..."(slamms on brakes)

They don't sound great, but the only important thing wrong with them is that they blow up too easy.

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> >I created the original thread, and I say that IRL's engines are biting > >off(i mean imitating)the NASCAR engines!!! They end up sounding sucky > >unlike NASCAR, which sounds more real. Also, the IRL uses engines that > >aren't supposed to sound like NASCAR(i mean nissan engines(infiniti))!!! > They don't sound great, but the only important thing wrong with them is > that they blow up too easy.

Mostly those cheap pop-off vavles! -DG-

On Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:17:41 -0500, David Gary

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>> >I created the original thread, and I say that IRL's engines are biting >> >off(i mean imitating)the NASCAR engines!!! They end up sounding sucky >> >unlike NASCAR, which sounds more real. Also, the IRL uses engines that >> >aren't supposed to sound like NASCAR(i mean nissan engines(infiniti))!!! >> They don't sound great, but the only important thing wrong with them is >> that they blow up too easy. >Mostly those cheap pop-off vavles! >-DG-

Uh, is that sarcasm? Because the IRL cars are not turbocharged, and therefore have no pop-off valves!

> > They don't sound great, but the only important thing wrong with them is > > that they blow up too easy. > Mostly those cheap pop-off vavles! Actually, IRL rules do not allow turbo-charged engines. Hence, no pop-off valve. -nick

On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:38:31 -0400, Nick Kothari >> Mostly those cheap pop-off vavles! >Actually, IRL rules do not allow turbo-charged engines. Hence, no >pop-off valve. Accordingly, the engine builders have substituted a new technology: pop-off engine block sections... :-) ---Jim Sokoloff

: Accordingly, the engine builders have substituted a new technology: : pop-off engine block sections... :-) : ---Jim Sokoloff OUCH!! Two points Jim! -- ________ ___ | | / | Scott Brayton 59-96 Jeff Krosnoff 64-96 | | /--------/ | Forever on the What might have ******** ____/---/ 77 \--------^\__ pole ____ been \ \__/ __ \ \ ____________________________ =====/ __ \ [ | / \ | \----_____/Jeffrey K. Stier ==== | / \ |----\ \____/--------------------------------^^^--\____/-|_________\

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> On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:38:31 -0400, Nick Kothari > >> Mostly those cheap pop-off vavles! > >Actually, IRL rules do not allow turbo-charged engines. Hence, no > >pop-off valve. > Accordingly, the engine builders have substituted a new technology: > pop-off engine block sections... :-) > ---Jim Sokoloff

heheheheh, nice one Jim.. -- Dave Otterness

> Actually, IRL rules do not allow turbo-charged engines. Hence, no > pop-off valve. > -nick 'scuse me? They did at one time. They ran them at Indy last year. This might have changed as of lately. I wouldnt know for sure as I dont follow IRL very much. =8>] -DG-

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> On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:38:31 -0400, Nick Kothari > >> Mostly those cheap pop-off vavles! > >Actually, IRL rules do not allow turbo-charged engines. Hence, no > >pop-off valve. > Accordingly, the engine builders have substituted a new technology: > pop-off engine block sections... :-) > ---Jim Sokoloff

Bravo Jim! rotflmao -- Ed "A friend of mine suggested I try America Online, I said 'But I already have a computer...'"

New rules this year in IRL prohibit turbo-chargers. They sound like real cars once again. Cart has been talking about it too. But as of now, they will keep the turbos.

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> > Actually, IRL rules do not allow turbo-charged engines. Hence, no > > pop-off valve. > > -nick > 'scuse me? They did at one time. They ran them at Indy last year. > This might have changed as of lately. I wouldnt know for sure as I dont > follow > IRL very much. > =8>] > -DG-

What origi***post are oyu talking about? The one I posted about the Sierra tech? If that is what you are talking about it wasn't fake it was a copy of a email I got from the tech. Rob

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> > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:38:31 -0400, Nick Kothari > > >> Mostly those cheap pop-off vavles! > > >Actually, IRL rules do not allow turbo-charged engines. Hence, no > > >pop-off valve. > > Accordingly, the engine builders have substituted a new technology: > > pop-off engine block sections... :-) > > ---Jim Sokoloff > Bravo Jim! rotflmao > -- > Ed > "A friend of mine suggested I try America Online, I said 'But I already > have > a computer...'"