Dream Sim. . .

Well, we've spent alot of time "picking" apart the flaws/bugs in the few really excellent "simulations" available to us. How about taking some time to discuss what ingrediants are needed to make the "dream simulation"? Let's try to keep the discussion open to all auto racing disciplines. For starters here are a couple of things I would like to see: Changing track conditions during the race. This would include the "groove" widening as the race progressed, weather caused changes (track temps, rain back to no rain), "marbles". Changing AI during the race. As the above happens some cars/drivers make the right "setup" or driving line changes, while others go backwards. "AI" that learns from the human driver's style. In other words an evolving AI. (Hey, I said a "dream" sim!) Tracks that model the real tracks. This includes "camber", curbs, incline, bumps, etc. Also the affects of going up/down hill modelled into the cars performance. Minute changes to the setup of the car, including all possible changes made from the***pit (weight jacking, brake bias, fuel mixture, etc.). Graphic performance this capable of maintaining 30 fps in "real time" mode. Realistic brakes. This includes overheating and wear and tear on the brakes under heavy braking and abuse. Well, these will do for starters. Again, let's try to be constructive in this discussion. Remember, this is the to be the "ultimate dream sim"! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Well, if you are going for the dream sim then surely you have to have a class system, eg ability to link up games such as GP2, ICR2 and N2 and depending upon your results and performances be offered drives in varying series. This I feel would add to the interest. Imagine linking up and having drivers offered 'contracts' to race for decent teams such as Ganssi, Williams or Hendrick. Obviously poorer performers would move on to the lesser teams and they have to fight their way up to the top teams. Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) > Well, we've spent alot of time "picking" apart the flaws/bugs in the few > really excellent "simulations" available to us. How about taking some > time to discuss what ingrediants are needed to make the "dream > simulation"? Let's try to keep the discussion open to all auto racing > disciplines. -- Ben Welch - NuTech Racing The E-Mail Cup - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7048/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------- Marge - "According to this book, the monorail goes over 150 mph, what if something goes wrong?" Homer - "What if? What if I was taking a shower and I slipped on a bar of soap?.......Oh my God!!! I'd be killed!!!" ----------------------------------------------------------------

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> Well, we've spent alot of time "picking" apart the flaws/bugs in the few > really excellent "simulations" available to us. How about taking some > time to discuss what ingrediants are needed to make the "dream > simulation"? Let's try to keep the discussion open to all auto racing > disciplines. > For starters here are a couple of things I would like to see: > Changing track conditions during the race. This would include the > "groove" widening as the race progressed, weather caused changes (track > temps, rain back to no rain), "marbles". > Changing AI during the race. As the above happens some cars/drivers > make the right "setup" or driving line changes, while others go > backwards. > "AI" that learns from the human driver's style. In other words an > evolving AI. (Hey, I said a "dream" sim!) > Tracks that model the real tracks. This includes "camber", curbs, > incline, bumps, etc. Also the affects of going up/down hill modelled > into the cars performance. > Minute changes to the setup of the car, including all possible changes > made from the***pit (weight jacking, brake bias, fuel mixture, etc.). > Graphic performance this capable of maintaining 30 fps in "real time" > mode. > Realistic brakes. This includes overheating and wear and tear on the > brakes under heavy braking and abuse. > Well, these will do for starters. Again, let's try to be constructive > in this discussion. Remember, this is the to be the "ultimate dream > sim"! > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Ill start with AI. Make them behave like the real drivers tendencys, ie Irvine pulling stupid dives on the first lap of races, Earndhart doing his double pass, Little Al lingering in the back of the field and charging up at the end. Plus the more agressive drivers should be tougher to pass as well as tougher to hold off. Moost of all make the drivers pass the human driver more agressivly On the technical side I would like to see failures based on driving habits, ie. riding the rev limmiter on downshifts taking a toll on the engine and increasing the chance of an engine related failure. Have cars drop oils and fluids on the track that could cause you a spinnen.

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> Well, we've spent alot of time "picking" apart the flaws/bugs in the few > really excellent "simulations" available to us. How about taking some > time to discuss what ingrediants are needed to make the "dream > simulation"? Let's try to keep the discussion open to all auto racing > disciplines. > <snip>

Hey, now this is a good topic (Jim, are you listening;-)?)! I'd like to see: 1.) pit stalls that reflect qualifying efforts. 2.) crashes that include flips and rolls (sorry Mr. Grissom) 3.) more realistic player "breakdowns" other than "something turned loose in the motor" such as the ignition coil going, a tire suddenly going down, hitting debris from crashed cars to name a few. That's all for now.

Why not simply buy your own car, get some intensive instruction and practice, and go the REAL route? :- ) Most of the sims available today fulfill MY needs but if I could see two things added they would be (a) weather....and changing conditions at that, and (b) the realistic effects of tyre wear, brake wear etc. Bruce #31 "....and if I'm not mistaken....and I AM mistaken...." (Murray Walker) VRE Site: http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/vegemiteracing/index.htm The STUNNED MULLET: http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/StunnedMullet/index.htm

Because I have less chance of getting killed this way!!

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> >Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream > >sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) > Why not simply buy your own car, get some intensive instruction and > practice, and go the REAL route? :- ) > Most of the sims available today fulfill MY needs but if I could see two > things added they would be (a) weather....and changing conditions at that, > and (b) the realistic effects of tyre wear, brake wear etc. > Bruce #31 > "....and if I'm not mistaken....and I AM mistaken...." > (Murray Walker) > VRE Site: http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/vegemiteracing/index.htm > The STUNNED MULLET: > http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/StunnedMullet/index.htm

-- Ben Welch - NuTech Racing The E-Mail Cup - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7048/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------- Marge - "According to this book, the monorail goes over 150 mph, what if something goes wrong?" Homer - "What if? What if I was taking a shower and I slipped on a bar of soap?.......Oh my God!!! I'd be killed!!!" ----------------------------------------------------------------

SNIP! lots of good points deleted for space... For me I would have to say that the driving model is the most important part of a driving sim. Realistic braking, lockups, having to ease up on the brakes as you slow, as you mentioned the brakes fading as they heat up if you abuse them etc. In real life, the drivers have to save up the brakes for later laps, and abusing them can cause significant difficulties in the later laps of the race. I definitely think the car being able to tilt is great, as in bouncing off the curbs etc. Lively car physics model. By this I mean a driving model that gives you suttle clues that you are about to spin it, such as the back end breaking loose bit by bit, while you are also being clued in with slight tire screetching or the car feeling unstable, and not the usual thing we have in most of the sims where the car once it reaches a certain point will spin despite your best attempts to counter it, with no signs prior to that point that you were driving at the limits. I suppose this should be affected by car setup as well. I watched F1 qualifying for the Australian GP this weekend and it was great to see the terrific car control that the drivers were able to use, getting sideways in the corners or bouncing all over the place while braking over a bumpy corner, and still being able to correct the car enough to keep it from going into a spin. As I watched that, I was thinking just how far off most of the driving sims are at being able to let us the driver "feel" the car at these extreme conditions before it is too late and we are already spinning. I agree with all the other points you mentioned, for me though I tend to judge a driving sim by it's driving model most of all. Let's hope maybe some of the programmers and producers of future driving sims will stumble on this thread and make these things a reality :-) Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

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> Well, we've spent alot of time "picking" apart the flaws/bugs in the few > really excellent "simulations" available to us. How about taking some > time to discuss what ingrediants are needed to make the "dream > simulation"? Let's try to keep the discussion open to all auto racing > disciplines. > For starters here are a couple of things I would like to see: > Changing track conditions during the race. This would include the > "groove" widening as the race progressed, weather caused changes (track > temps, rain back to no rain), "marbles". > Changing AI during the race. As the above happens some cars/drivers > make the right "setup" or driving line changes, while others go > backwards. > "AI" that learns from the human driver's style. In other words an > evolving AI. (Hey, I said a "dream" sim!) > Tracks that model the real tracks. This includes "camber", curbs, > incline, bumps, etc. Also the affects of going up/down hill modelled > into the cars performance. > Minute changes to the setup of the car, including all possible changes > made from the***pit (weight jacking, brake bias, fuel mixture, etc.). > Graphic performance this capable of maintaining 30 fps in "real time" > mode. > Realistic brakes. This includes overheating and wear and tear on the > brakes under heavy braking and abuse. > Well, these will do for starters. Again, let's try to be constructive > in this discussion. Remember, this is the to be the "ultimate dream > sim"!

Hey Mike its Davo again. Great idea! If someone would donate a site Ill create the graphics if someone else will join in and setup a "wishlist" structure. That way guys could come to the site and choose among several general wishes and even add a comment box to strengthen the list. Im all for keeping the integrity of future sims! -David Gary-

:-) I thought that may be the reason, Ben! :-) -- Bruce #31 "....and if I'm not mistaken....and I AM mistaken...." (Murray Walker) VRE Site: http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/vegemiteracing/index.htm The STUNNED MULLET: http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/StunnedMullet/index.htm

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>I watched F1 qualifying for the Australian GP this weekend and it was great >to see the terrific car control that the drivers were able to use, getting >sideways in the corners or bouncing all over the place while braking >over a bumpy corner, and still being able to correct the car enough to keep >it from going into a spin. As I watched that, I was thinking just how far off >most of the driving sims are at being able to let us the driver "feel" the car >at these extreme conditions before it is too late and we are already spinning.

Having done a bit of driving at (and sometimes beyond) the limit in Skip Barber's cars, it's fairly apparent to me that feeling the self-aligning torque of the front wheels and the rotational accelerations of your body are critical to good car control. I'd love to see a force feedback unit that could deliver the correct "feel" from an authenticate physics model. (Unfortunately, such a device will not be built for less that $1000 in the next several years, from what I can see...) ObPlug for Skip Barber (or the equivalent presumably): If you can afford it, it's a fantastic experience. The three day competition course taught me more than any other three days in my life (at least about driving race cars :-) ) Oh, we're watching... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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>Having done a bit of driving at (and sometimes beyond) the limit in >Skip Barber's cars, it's fairly apparent to me that feeling the >self-aligning torque of the front wheels and the rotational >accelerations of your body are critical to good car control. I'd love >to see a force feedback unit that could deliver the correct "feel" >from an authenticate physics model. (Unfortunately, such a device will >not be built for less that $1000 in the next several years, from what >I can see...)

Curious if you've had a chance to try out Thrustmaster's upcoming feedback steering wheel? I'm hoping force-feedback will add quite a lot to the driving sim experience. Also curious how much the driving course at Skip Barber costs? I'm planning on spending quite a bit to go see one of the European F1 races in the next year or two and wondering if racing school might be worth the money first. And we sure do appreciate it too Jim, keep up the good work :-) Glad to have you here. Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

Better make sure you got Papyrus on your payroll...If anything, they'll probably have the better modem routines. :) Marc

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>>Having done a bit of driving at (and sometimes beyond) the limit in >>Skip Barber's cars, it's fairly apparent to me that feeling the >>self-aligning torque of the front wheels and the rotational >>accelerations of your body are critical to good car control. I'd love >>to see a force feedback unit that could deliver the correct "feel" >>from an authenticate physics model. (Unfortunately, such a device will >>not be built for less that $1000 in the next several years, from what >>I can see...) >Curious if you've had a chance to try out Thrustmaster's upcoming feedback >steering wheel? I'm hoping force-feedback will add quite a lot to the >driving sim experience.

I haven't had the chance to try it (others in the company may have), but my background is in mechanical engineering, and I know roughly what size servo motor and servo amplifier would be needed to accurately recreate the feel of non-power steer open-wheel cars. And, having priced them a while back (for my thesis project), I know that those will not be the pieces used in Thrustmaster's ~$300 consumer product. :-) That's not to say Thrustmaster's won't be a long shot better than nothing... Three Day Competition course is ~$2000, lodging and meals are in addition to that. (Don't plan on being able to do much else other than drive the cars though; I was utterly exhausted after days two and three...) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

For me - the dream sim would primarily improve the AI to a level that I feel I am racing humans with human frailties. Several AI improvements would be a big win for the sim driving experience. 1) Improved lines, speeds etc. for the AI cars. Some tracks model this pretty well - others do not. Talladega is much too slow in the corners and pretty quick down the straights - assuming I turn up rels a bit or increase the power/traction etc. for the AI drivers at this speedway. This makes the AI cars unable to draft with my car - either running away from me on the straights or falling back in the corners. Dover with modified LP files and Atlanta are pretty decent and more fun to drive. 2) Model real life AI frailty. The AI cars are much too consistent. I turn laps that will differ by as much as a tenths from one lap to the next. At Atlanta, for example, I can run with a front running AI car for a couple of laps - but he is so consistent that he eventually will get away. It would be ideal if some deviation was built into the LP files and the chance of deviation was derived from the driver/team skills. I know that there is a deviation from the ideal line is already built into the LP files - however when making this number wide in order to cause a bit of inconsistency - the AI cars will swirv into each other lines randomly and cause the big slowdowns (pileups) in the corners. Its the right idea - but just not implemented quite right. 3) Better AI car line decisions. The AI cars need to learn to switch to an available LP line without slowing down. This slowdown algorythm causes the big slowdowns in the corners on the starts and often causes the field to seperate too much - especially at Talladega. A real race car driver will move up or down the track while keeping the throttle down. If no available line exists, then the AI car should slow down and fall into line. These poor line decisions make it easy to beat a faster AI car. Also, they prevent good side by side racing - since the AI cars tend to slow down rather than race into a turn side by side. (and of course us poor humans run into the back of them) 4) Better AI car pit decisions. Real race teams have rather predictable pit strategies. When the leader comes in under caution - most of the other lead cars will too. Lap cars might stay out to try and get a lap back - or cars really far back in the pack might stay out to get some track position - assuming that they still have plenty of gas left. If a car is on the lead lap and is more than 1/2 way to a green flag stop - they will pit under caution. If we could get double file restarts - the pit strategy of course would change a bit for lead lap cars - since those at the end of the lead lap have nothing to lose by pitting under caution. Also, the AI cars should sometimes take two tires when the number of laps dictate that the left tires are not very warn yet. The AI cars should never pit when near the end of the race and near the front of the pack - unless they do not have enough gas to go the distance. 5) More than 39 cars in the field with some, including the human, failing to qualify. In season mode - the cars could be given some provisionals to use based on the current standings. In the first race of the season - provisionals would be assigned based on driver/team skill. The human would always have a provisional for the first race of the season. 6) Qualification skill value for the drivers. Also, variable skill assignment for different tracks. Rusty could be given a high skill at Richmond and a low skill at Talladega ... etc. Yeah - kinda like YADR2 does - but integrated. To keep things simple, the default kill levels would be used at all tracks unless specific skills were assigned. The variable information could just be a % deviation from the default skills at a particular track type. Example ... RUSTY WALLACE Skills Power 500 562 Traction 500 562 Drag 125 200 Short Track 100% One Mile Oval 98% Speedway 98% Road Course 100% Restrictor Plate 92% Qualification Rating 95% 7) AI cars swirving to clean the tires etc. on the pace lap and caution laps. I have no need for flips or rolls. This would be cool, but a lot of work for a small reward in the sim racing experience. The driving model is already pretty good - although I do agree that it is difficult to tell when the car is going to break loose. I do feel that the existing model does allow me to correct a spin and save the sim race car. As is probably obvious with my list of changes for a dream sim - N2 is already pretty close. I would just like to feel that I am racing against some more intelligent opponents. Maybe NRO will help in that area - then again - maybe not. /THansen

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> > Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream > > sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) > Better make sure you got Papyrus on your payroll...If anything, they'll > probably have the better modem routines. :) > Marc

When I win the Lottery, I will buy the 'Williams' full size sim (they use full size cars uno!) Sack Frank, get Damon back as No.2 driver, and drive the other car myself......somebody wake me up!!!!! Jammer (UK)

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> >Having done a bit of driving at (and sometimes beyond) the limit in > >Skip Barber's cars, it's fairly apparent to me that feeling the > >self-aligning torque of the front wheels and the rotational > >accelerations of your body are critical to good car control. I'd love > >to see a force feedback unit that could deliver the correct "feel" > >from an authenticate physics model. (Unfortunately, such a device will > >not be built for less that $1000 in the next several years, from what > >I can see...) > Curious if you've had a chance to try out Thrustmaster's upcoming feedback > steering wheel? I'm hoping force-feedback will add quite a lot to the > driving sim experience. > >ObPlug for Skip Barber (or the equivalent presumably): If you can > >afford it, it's a fantastic experience. The three day competition > >course taught me more than any other three days in my life (at least > >about driving race cars :-) ) > Also curious how much the driving course at Skip Barber costs? > I'm planning on spending quite a bit to go see one of the European F1 races in > the next year or two and wondering if racing school might be worth the > money first. > >>Let's hope maybe some of the programmers and producers of future driving sims > >>will stumble on this thread and make these things a reality :-) > >Oh, we're watching... > >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus > And we sure do appreciate it too Jim, keep up the good work :-) > Glad to have you here. > Cheers. > --John > -- > Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. > ------------------------------+-------------------------- > Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

The force feedback steering wheel is what alot of us have been waiting for. I tried out a prototype from Thrustmaster, and it felt pretty good. There is a slight tug on cornering, which gradually gets stronger as you corner harder. When you hit a wall or other cars, it jolts. It even registers driving on grass with a light rumble. My only complaint is that the feedback didn't have enough force, but the final version I'm told would be much stronger and forceful. My only question is how durable will the steering wheel be. It really brings sims one major step closer to the real thing. This peripheral will be a NECESSITY. Clee

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> >I watched F1 qualifying for the Australian GP this weekend and it was great > >to see the terrific car control that the drivers were able to use, getting > >sideways in the corners or bouncing all over the place while braking > >over a bumpy corner, and still being able to correct the car enough to keep > >it from going into a spin. As I watched that, I was thinking just how far off > >most of the driving sims are at being able to let us the driver "feel" the car > >at these extreme conditions before it is too late and we are already spinning. > Having done a bit of driving at (and sometimes beyond) the limit in > Skip Barber's cars, it's fairly apparent to me that feeling the > self-aligning torque of the front wheels and the rotational > accelerations of your body are critical to good car control. I'd love > to see a force feedback unit that could deliver the correct "feel" > from an authenticate physics model. (Unfortunately, such a device will > not be built for less that $1000 in the next several years, from what > I can see...) > ObPlug for Skip Barber (or the equivalent presumably): If you can > afford it, it's a fantastic experience. The three day competition > course taught me more than any other three days in my life (at least > about driving race cars :-) ) > >I agree with all the other points you mentioned, for me though I tend to judge > >a driving sim by it's driving model most of all. > >Let's hope maybe some of the programmers and producers of future driving sims > >will stumble on this thread and make these things a reality :-) > Oh, we're watching... > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I'd like to add, in Papyrus's defense, that one of the things I love the most about N2 is the excellent amount of "feel" that the game does give you. The (I assume) slightly exagerated pitch and roll are things I have long wanted, as well as the (this I know) exagerated tire squeal. Also, it is possible to get sideways and recover, in both N1 and N2. True, it would be a lot easier if you could feel the wheel tighten up or go spft, or feel the roll of the car, but current techno in mind I think Papy did an excellent job. -- Ed "A friend of mine suggested I try America Online, I said 'But I already have a computer...'"

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>> > Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream >> > sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) >> Better make sure you got Papyrus on your payroll...If anything, they'll >> probably have the better modem routines. :) >> Marc >When I win the Lottery, I will buy the 'Williams' full size sim (they >use full size cars uno!) Sack Frank, get Damon back as No.2 driver, and >drive the other car myself......somebody wake me up!!!!! >Jammer (UK)

If you've ever driven "Hard Drivin'" or its superior sibling "Race Drivin'", produced a few years ago by Atari as an arcade machine, you know how these feedback steering wheels add to the experience. Among the cars you can drive are a "simulated" (name removed, of course) Ferrari something or other, with waay to much horsepower. While everyone else ran on the "stunt" tracks, I stuck to the little road course, basically just a flat oval. Going around one of the corners, you queeze into the throttle, a bit more, a bit more...Until you FEEL the car begin to oversteer. It's a wierd sensation, but you can actually feel the uneasiness in the chassis, and then, finally, when the tires DO break loose. It's then just a matter of countersteering...But the feedback steering wheels REALLY make a difference!

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>The force feedback steering wheel is what alot of us have been waiting for. I tried out a prototype from >Thrustmaster, and it felt pretty good. There is a slight tug on cornering, which gradually gets stronger as >you corner harder. When you hit a wall or other cars, it jolts. It even registers driving on grass with a >light rumble. My only complaint is that the feedback didn't have enough force, but the final version I'm told >would be much stronger and forceful. My only question is how durable will the steering wheel be. It really >brings sims one major step closer to the real thing. This peripheral will be a NECESSITY. >Clee

Sounds nice, I hope the software that supports force-feedback will include some feedback on the wheel for when the tires are about to break loose, sure would go a long way toward preventing spins. I will probably end up getting Thrustmaster's new wheel when it comes out, the $99 I spent on the T-2 almost two years ago has been worth every dollar ten times over in the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of driving sims since. Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

I have been thinking about writing in and suggesting some of my ideas for a dream sim. (More Nascar) I to tend to base a lot of emphasis on the driving model. I was e***d to hell when it was confirmed to me that I would be able to spin the rear tires in Nascar 2 because it ment I could get the V8 engine to light up as well as turn the car around in the case of a spinout, not to mention burning *** out of the pit stall. Now to add to the thrill I need the clutch coded into Nascar. (My home built pedals has the clutch fitted and is used in with Nascar by wiring the gear lever through a switch at the clutch pedal forcing me to jab the clutch pedal otherwise the gears won't change.) Being able to rev the engine and drop the clutch to spin the wheels would be cool. Then it could be added that there is the possiblity to stall the engine, meaning I would have to push a button to refire the engine. Now at the start of the race imagine this. You go into the race. You are presented with the familiar***pit screen but you are on the pit road and the engine is not running, your transmission is in neutral. You can hear the murmur of the crowd and then a voice say, "Drivers, start your engines". Just before you reach to the start button you hear some of the other cars fire up. You press the button, there is a small click quickly followed by a wir of the starter motor, you pump the gas pedal and your V8 engine roars into life. You jab the gas a couple of times to check all is Ok. You press the clutch in and select first gear. You give the engine a little more gas and ease out the clutch. The cars start to roll out onto the track behind the pace car for the pace lap and back to normal for the green flag. During a spin out if your don't get your foot on the clutch you run the risk of stalling the engine forcing you to refire it once you have come to stop. And reverse would be one more down shift from neutral, and then pressing the gas pedal to back up. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

Of course you wouldn't want Jacques Villeneuve as a teammate, he's too fast and wouldn't give you any chance to win... A. Renault

>Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream >sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) If I wind the lottery, I'm going to go racing for real, hopefully moving up into sports cars & Touring Cars. Sims are only good for me because it is affordable :) Gregory Fung Vancouver, B.C., Canada

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>>Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream >>sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) >If I wind the lottery, I'm going to go racing for real, hopefully moving >up into sports cars & Touring Cars. Sims are only good for me because >it is affordable :) >Gregory Fung >Vancouver, B.C., Canada

You hit the nail on the head there Gregory!!! The first thing I would do (well after I paid off my credit cards) would be to sign up at Skip Barber's racing school. Maybe start out in the Barber/Dodge series, move up through the ranks. It would be great to make it to the CART series, but I could be happy to be racing in IMSA or even some of the higher level club sereies! Later, Rick Martel

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> >When I win the Lottery, I will buy the 'Williams' full size sim (they > >use full size cars uno!) Sack Frank, get Damon back as No.2 driver, and > >drive the other car myself......somebody wake me up!!!!! > >Jammer (UK) > Of course you wouldn't want Jacques Villeneuve as a teammate, he's too > fast and wouldn't give you any chance to win... > A. Renault

Look Mate, all the best GP drivers are English (or Scotish) don't yer know! Villeneuve is only a Canadian dreamer....no good being fast if your dumped out at the first corner ;-) Jammer (UK)

I would like to see more engine problems that need attention in the pits such as, 1 Egnition misfire, 2 Oil and\or water leaks. 3 Code for a clutch and neutral gear, making the possiblity to stall the engine and have to refire it, especially due to a spin out. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

> >Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream > >sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) And If I would win the lottery, I would buy the license for 1) The Indianapolis Motor Speedway 2) The Daytona Intl. Speedway 3) Mont-Tremblant License (Old F1 track in Quebec) 4) All other tracks that Papyrus didn't have the money to have to License. and I would donate them to Papyrus so that they could give them free to all the simracers around the world and make people HAPPY!HAPPY!HAPPY!HAPPY!HAPPY! Oups that was a dream :( Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/2804/index.html http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

> >Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream > >sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-) Yeah and I hope that if you win the lottery you will kick out GCrammond :) and redo the company as good as Papyrus . Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/2804/index.html http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)