NASCAR 2 (PATCH IT OR SCRAP IT)

I have enjoyed NASCAR Racing and now the second version for quite some time, but I am finally throwing up my hands and tossing NASCAR 2 unless a patch is available VERY SOON. I sat back quietly and read many unenlightened postings about how awful the simulation is. I knew that there were many positive changes to NASCAR Racing, despite the rush to release for the holidays and the resulting problems. However, I simply can't deal with this product anymore. I have spent a lot of time improving and have quickly been able to qualify toward the front at 100% opponent strength. But qualifying is the ONLY enjoyment I get out of NASCAR 2. Once the race starts, the AI cars start bumping me, smashing fenders and bumpers, while my spotter is giving me completely incorrect information. On several occasions, the spotter has stated, "clear low", so I've held my line, only to find out that another car is right under my rear fender. I try to ride the white line, but the AI cars don't care and the spotter can't see what's going on. Over and over, at every track, I have raced as carefully and conservatively as possible, just trying to hold my line, keep the car stable and never go into the corners too aggressively. The result has been wreck after wreck after wreck, 90% of which are caused by AI cars or the spotter giving me bogus information. Combine this with the lack of a save race option and the myriad options that were left on the cutting room floor when time pressures hit, and you have a very sub-standard product that has worn out its welcome. If saving races, opponent provisionals, second-round qualifying and other features are not added with a patch, I won't waste my time anymore. Can anyone offer some sane comments or suggestions? Any word on a patch and exactly what it will contain? Anyone from Paprus care to address the severe shortcomings of this product? Kirn Cromur

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>I have enjoyed NASCAR Racing and now the second version for quite some >time, but I am finally throwing up my hands and tossing NASCAR 2 >unless a patch is available VERY SOON. I sat back quietly and read >many unenlightened postings about how awful the simulation is. I knew >that there were many positive changes to NASCAR Racing, despite the >rush to release for the holidays and the resulting problems. However, >I simply can't deal with this product anymore. >I have spent a lot of time improving and have quickly been able to >qualify toward the front at 100% opponent strength. But qualifying is >the ONLY enjoyment I get out of NASCAR 2. Once the race starts, the >AI cars start bumping me, smashing fenders and bumpers, while my >spotter is giving me completely incorrect information. On several >occasions, the spotter has stated, "clear low", so I've held my line, >only to find out that another car is right under my rear fender. I >try to ride the white line, but the AI cars don't care and the spotter >can't see what's going on. >Over and over, at every track, I have raced as carefully and >conservatively as possible, just trying to hold my line, keep the car >stable and never go into the corners too aggressively. The result has >been wreck after wreck after wreck, 90% of which are caused by AI cars >or the spotter giving me bogus information. >Combine this with the lack of a save race option and the myriad >options that were left on the cutting room floor when time pressures >hit, and you have a very sub-standard product that has worn out its >welcome. If saving races, opponent provisionals, second-round >qualifying and other features are not added with a patch, I won't >waste my time anymore. >Can anyone offer some sane comments or suggestions? Any word on a >patch and exactly what it will contain? Anyone from Paprus care to >address the severe shortcomings of this product? >Kirn Cromur

I think you'll be hearing from Jim shortly. But anyway for what it might be of value. their are three options, Opponent strength, I set mine at 100% then I adjust the track text file rels line down in %. Some are way over 100. Sounds like yours are still stock?? Then the AI cars won't run all over you and you can get used to the traffic, while increasing your rels line in steps. I run some partial races to get the feel of the settings. Anyway try that and I'm sure you'll be a little less frustrated by the AI and the spotter. The spotter does need some fixin!!! Jim might know when that patch is going to be ready.? Well?????????

Pass on the straights and mid corners. I've noticed that the mid corner on the outside is a safe place to pass. The ai seems to go out of their way to get the low line entering and the high line exiting the corners.

I don't agree that the AI cars aggressively bump the player's car. The only uncontrollable wreck problem that I experience is the unpredictable slowdowns that occur when two AI cars get close to one another and slow by over 20%. If I am drafting I end up rear ending the car in front. Also, the AI cars will wreck me during the mad pit scrambles. Both of these should be easy to fix and will make racing very enjoyable (both were on my wish list). Also, the spotter very rarely gives me incorrect information. It will occur if I am off the pace in which case he can't get the words car low out fast enough. However, I have learned when to hold my line and check if a car is under me. This actually is very realistic - since a real spotter cannot be 100% up the second correct either. As for the rest of the bugs - I am sure they are being worked by Papyrus. Let's give them some time so they can get a lot of things that we are looking for fixed - rather than rush out a patch that is disappointing. I am not going anywhere .... and still have a long way to go in practicing before I am ready for a competitive season anyway. /THansen

Is there an explanation somewhere of all of the settings in the track.txt file? Periodically I see people refer to altering it and I am reluctant to do so without knowing what effect it has on the game. I plan to modem race with a couple of friends and I suppose to be fair, we would all have to make the same changes?

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> I have enjoyed NASCAR Racing and now the second version for quite some > time, but I am finally throwing up my hands and tossing NASCAR 2 > unless a patch is available VERY SOON. I sat back quietly and read > many unenlightened postings about how awful the simulation is. I knew > that there were many positive changes to NASCAR Racing, despite the > rush to release for the holidays and the resulting problems. However, > I simply can't deal with this product anymore.

Hmm. I'm not having the same problems as you. Aside from not being real competitive with N2 yet, I seem to be able to at least stay out of wrecks. The spotter does mess up every once in a while in a crowd, but he has done just fine otherwise. Remember, he is only AI. He does make mistakes and for a first attempt at spotter information, Papyrus did do a great job. Hopefully the patch will be out soon, but I've got a feeling you won't be satisfied with it. Improve your driving and rely LESS on the spotter. David Martin

Kirn, I think you just need a little more practice. This sim is really not that bad! It is much, much easier than NASCAR1 and 100% more realistic. Stick with it, and stop listening to all the negative stuff and enjoy what you got. If you like real NASCAR, this is all we got and personally I think it ROCKS. And it can only get BETTER!!!!! Wayne

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>I have enjoyed NASCAR Racing and now the second version for quite some >time, but I am finally throwing up my hands and tossing NASCAR 2 >unless a patch is available VERY SOON. I sat back quietly and read >many unenlightened postings about how awful the simulation is. I knew >that there were many positive changes to NASCAR Racing, despite the >rush to release for the holidays and the resulting problems. However, >I simply can't deal with this product anymore. >I have spent a lot of time improving and have quickly been able to >qualify toward the front at 100% opponent strength. But qualifying is >the ONLY enjoyment I get out of NASCAR 2. Once the race starts, the >AI cars start bumping me, smashing fenders and bumpers, while my >spotter is giving me completely incorrect information. On several >occasions, the spotter has stated, "clear low", so I've held my line, >only to find out that another car is right under my rear fender. I >try to ride the white line, but the AI cars don't care and the spotter >can't see what's going on. >Over and over, at every track, I have raced as carefully and >conservatively as possible, just trying to hold my line, keep the car >stable and never go into the corners too aggressively. The result has >been wreck after wreck after wreck, 90% of which are caused by AI cars >or the spotter giving me bogus information. >Combine this with the lack of a save race option and the myriad >options that were left on the cutting room floor when time pressures >hit, and you have a very sub-standard product that has worn out its >welcome. If saving races, opponent provisionals, second-round >qualifying and other features are not added with a patch, I won't >waste my time anymore. >Can anyone offer some sane comments or suggestions? Any word on a >patch and exactly what it will contain? Anyone from Paprus care to >address the severe shortcomings of this product? >Kirn Cromur

: Is there an explanation somewhere of all of the settings in the track.txt : file? Periodically I see people refer to altering it and I am reluctant to : do so without knowing what effect it has on the game. I plan to modem race : with a couple of friends and I suppose to be fair, we would all have to : make the same changes? I have a Tracker's Hack FAQ on my Help page at http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver/autosim.htm Also check out http://mrfrench.cslab.uwlax.edu/~rueck_cw/pages/racesim/ -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I don't find the driveability that difficult once you have got used to how the AI cars drive. Sure I get cut off. But I have raced enough now that I can tell when I am about to get cut off or at least I fell a strong possibility that it will happen. I have had an occasional incident when the spotter has said clear and I inevidably wipe out. Damn that spotter! But it doesn't happen very often. Check out Eric's mirror fix. It sure helps on close calls. I still have trouble on double line starts with ramming into the back of cars going in or out of the first one or two turns. Shift-R solves that problem. There are a few bugs, but I don't think it's as bad as you describe. DaMan >Can anyone offer some sane comments or suggestions? Any word on a >patch and exactly what it will contain? Anyone from Paprus care to >address the severe shortcomings of this product? >Kirn Cromur

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:26:34 -0500, David Martin

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>Hmm. I'm not having the same problems as you. Aside from not being >real competitive with N2 yet, I seem to be able to at least stay out of >wrecks. The spotter does mess up every once in a while in a crowd, but >he has done just fine otherwise. Remember, he is only AI. He does make >mistakes and for a first attempt at spotter information, Papyrus did do >a great job. Hopefully the patch will be out soon, but I've got a >feeling you won't be satisfied with it. Improve your driving and rely >LESS on the spotter.

I concur with this and suggest you check out the mirror mod to reduce blind spots (so you won't have to rely on the spotter as much). I haven't bothered with it, but it might help you. I'm pretty sure its on Eric Busch's web site. I find if I allow about a 1/2 - 1 second lag between when the spotter says its clear before I put myself into a situation, that takes care of half the problem (old cars moving out of my way). A greater situational awareness of nearby cars moving into my "space" takes care of the other end of things (new cars moving into my way). If you suspect a car is lurking back there, "don't go there", even if the spotter hasn't called him out yet. I've been spending more time lately with ICR2-3D. Lots of fun at Pocono. You wouldn't like the mirrors though... ;) Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters last month? Now, you must ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

Preach on Dave.... N2's AI is much less "predictable" that alone makes it worth it to me. The spotter is pretty neat but I run the spotter option on the "experienced" level. Otherwise he drives me nuts with the pit road speed chatter. Andy A.

Very, Very well put!! Right on the MONEY$!$!$!$!

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>I don't agree that the AI cars aggressively bump the player's car. The >only uncontrollable wreck problem that I experience is the unpredictable >slowdowns that occur when two AI cars get close to one another and slow by >over 20%. If I am drafting I end up rear ending the car in front. Also, >the AI cars will wreck me during the mad pit scrambles. Both of these >should be easy to fix and will make racing very enjoyable (both were on my >wish list). Also, the spotter very rarely gives me incorrect information. >It will occur if I am off the pace in which case he can't get the words car >low out fast enough. However, I have learned when to hold my line and >check if a car is under me. This actually is very realistic - since a real >spotter cannot be 100% up the second correct either. As for the rest of >the bugs - I am sure they are being worked by Papyrus. Let's give them >some time so they can get a lot of things that we are looking for fixed - >rather than rush out a patch that is disappointing. I am not going >anywhere .... and still have a long way to go in practicing before I am >ready for a competitive season anyway. >/THansen

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> >I think you'll be hearing from Jim shortly. > >But anyway for what it might be of value. their are three options, > >Opponent strength, I set mine at 100% then I adjust the track text > >file rels line down in %. Some are way over 100. Sounds like yours > >are still stock?? Then the AI cars won't run all over you and you can > >get used to the traffic, while increasing your rels line in steps. I > >run some partial races to get the feel of the settings. Anyway try > >that and I'm sure you'll be a little less frustrated by the AI and the > >spotter. The spotter does need some fixin!!! > > Jim might know when that patch is going to be ready.? > >Well????????? > Is there an explanation somewhere of all of the settings in the track.txt > file? Periodically I see people refer to altering it and I am reluctant to > do so without knowing what effect it has on the game. I plan to modem race > with a couple of friends and I suppose to be fair, we would all have to > make the same changes?

Actually, I think (not sure, so flame away) that only the answering machine deals with the AI cars. So the configuration of the track.txt files for whoever answers will control the AI. However, since you probably want to practice with the same AI that you will race against in modem races, it will still be best if all the files match.

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>> I have enjoyed NASCAR Racing and now the second version for quite some >> time, but I am finally throwing up my hands and tossing NASCAR 2 >> unless a patch is available VERY SOON. I sat back quietly and read >> many unenlightened postings about how awful the simulation is. I knew >> that there were many positive changes to NASCAR Racing, despite the >> rush to release for the holidays and the resulting problems. However, >> I simply can't deal with this product anymore. >Hmm. I'm not having the same problems as you. Aside from not being >real competitive with N2 yet, I seem to be able to at least stay out of >wrecks. The spotter does mess up every once in a while in a crowd, but >he has done just fine otherwise. Remember, he is only AI. He does make >mistakes and for a first attempt at spotter information, Papyrus did do >a great job. Hopefully the patch will be out soon, but I've got a >feeling you won't be satisfied with it. Improve your driving and rely >LESS on the spotter. >David Martin

I agree with David. After my initial problems with the multiplayer were fixed, my buddy and I have had very little operational problems to deal with. There are still bugs in the program that pop up (such as cars driving through me on the pace lap and wrecking me) but, geez, guys, none of this is life threatning. The ratio of good to bad, in my opinion, is still way above 1 million to 1. I still can't tell everybody how much I love this game. If the patch makes it better, then great!! If not, then I've still got a game I love to death, assuming, of course, the patch does not***anything up. Right now, I may not even try to work the patch when it comes out. Jody