Good joystick?

I'm looking for a good general purpose joystick (no steering wheels please) recommendation. I'm currently using a Gravis Gamepad, which has served its purpose well, but maybe if I can get a little more delicacy out of a new joystick, then I'll take it. I've been suffering from wheelspin and brake locks, with this Gravis, and I can only guess that it's because this Gravis can only be on or off, but it has no in between settings. I used to have an analog joystick in the way, way past, but I hated those things, always required adjusting of the potentiometer, so the Gravis was a great step forward at the time. Specifically, I'm thinking of the Microsoft 3D joystick. I hear its got a third degree of freedom, though I can't imagine how they did that. Yousuf Khan -- Yousuf J. Khan Ottawa, Ont, Canada Nation's capital

I just got GP2 and I am running it with the Microsoft 3D Joystick. The third dimension only works with software wriiten for it. If you can imagine a rotation left and right in the center position of the handle you can guess the action. For example in Mech warrior it moves the field of vision left and right. In GP2 there does not seem to be any support for the additonal action. I found that the MS Joystick is pretty sloppy and unresponsive. One of the PC mags (PCWORLD?) had a review of joysticks on their web site. I beleive the top of the line Gravis unit took the prize.

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> I just got GP2 and I am running it with the Microsoft 3D Joystick. The > third dimension only works with software wriiten for it. If you can > imagine a rotation left and right in the center position of the handle you > can guess the action. For example in Mech warrior it moves the field of > vision left and right. In GP2 there does not seem to be any support for > the additonal action. I found that the MS Joystick is pretty sloppy and > unresponsive. One of the PC mags (PCWORLD?) had a review of joysticks on > their web site. I beleive the top of the line Gravis unit took the prize.

I see, thanks for the response. Would you know which Gravis model was rated best in that survey? I think I'll check out the ZDNet articles on that one. Yousuf Khan

> I'm looking for a good general purpose joystick (no steering wheels please) > recommendation. I'm currently using a Gravis Gamepad, which has served its > purpose well, but maybe if I can get a little more delicacy out of a new > joystick, then I'll take it. You might want to try CH Products Flightstick or Flightstick Pro. I have a T2 steering wheel and have gone back to the Flightstick. I have had it for over 3 years with no problems. Have also tried the Sidewinder 3D and once again went back to the Flightstick. You just can't beat it IMHO. Don

>I see, thanks for the response. Would you know which Gravis model was >rated best in that survey? I think I'll check out the ZDNet articles on >that one. The Gravis Firebird 2 was the highest rated. I've got the stick and am very pleased with it. It is one of the least inexpensive sticks that let you program keyboard actions. Nice feel. Adjustable springs. A definite buy. By the way, even with good joysticks the throttle is still on/off in Nascar and Indycar. You only get variable throttle with pedals.

>By the way, even with good joysticks the >throttle is still on/off in Nascar and Indycar. You only get variable >throttle with pedals. Well, it depends on how you set things up. If you use buttons, you'll get more-or-less digital behaviour (with some Papyrus trickery in there to smooth things out). Or you can set up throttle/brake as the Y axis of your joystick for analog control. If you don't want to coordinate steering with throttle/brake on one stick, use two joysticks (and a splitter cable to use just one joy-port if desired). Finally, I use two CH Mach I joysticks in this manner. Small, compact, cheap, reliable -- everything I want from a joystick. Pick one or more: Model Rockets (competition-NERCB) / PCs (even Atari!) / Papyrus ICR-ICR2-NCR / Who needs a life when you have multiple non-lives?

> The Gravis Firebird 2 was the highest rated. I've got the stick and > am very pleased with it. It is one of the least inexpensive sticks > that let you program keyboard actions. Nice feel. Adjustable > springs. A definite buy. By the way, even with good joysticks the > throttle is still on/off in Nascar and Indycar. You only get variable > throttle with pedals. Whoooa!! Hold on there. Yuo can use the Firebird's throttle lever as an anolog throttle in Nascar 2. Been there and done that to know. Give it a try. Q.B.M.

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> I'm looking for a good general purpose joystick (no steering wheels please) > recommendation. I'm currently using a Gravis Gamepad, which has served its > purpose well, but maybe if I can get a little more delicacy out of a new > joystick, then I'll take it. > I've been suffering from wheelspin and brake locks, with this Gravis, and I > can only guess that it's because this Gravis can only be on or off, but it > has no in between settings. I used to have an analog joystick in the way, > way past, but I hated those things, always required adjusting of the > potentiometer, so the Gravis was a great step forward at the time. > Specifically, I'm thinking of the Microsoft 3D joystick. I hear its got a > third degree of freedom, though I can't imagine how they did that.

I use the Microsoft Sidewinder standard (no 3D rotation) which works very well for driving sims. Fairly inexpensive and reasonably durable. dglenn

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> > I'm looking for a good general purpose joystick (no steering wheels please) > > recommendation. I'm currently using a Gravis Gamepad, which has served its > > purpose well, but maybe if I can get a little more delicacy out of a new > > joystick, then I'll take it. > > I've been suffering from wheelspin and brake locks, with this Gravis, and I > > can only guess that it's because this Gravis can only be on or off, but it > > has no in between settings. I used to have an analog joystick in the way, > > way past, but I hated those things, always required adjusting of the > > potentiometer, so the Gravis was a great step forward at the time. > > Specifically, I'm thinking of the Microsoft 3D joystick. I hear its got a > > third degree of freedom, though I can't imagine how they did that. > I use the Microsoft Sidewinder standard (no 3D rotation) which works > very well for driving sims. Fairly inexpensive and reasonably durable. > dglenn

Try the Miscrosoft 3D joystick if recalibrating frustrates you. This joystick uses an optical mechanism instead of potentiometers so that calibration is never necessary. Mine never drifts! M Lewis

>> unresponsive. One of the PC mags (PCWORLD?) had a review of joysticks on >> their web site. I beleive the top of the line Gravis unit took the prize. >I see, thanks for the response. Would you know which Gravis model was >rated best in that survey? I think I'll check out the ZDNet articles on >that one. > Yousuf Khan You aren't gonna see any improvement with the Gravis. The condition you describe is because you are using a button for braking. If you use a stick, then possibly pulling back to brake will help the smoothness, but believe me, that makes it hard to go fast. I have just gotten a Thrustmaster T2 wheel and much of the braking problems have disappeared. Mainly I think, because of the pedal's gradual grabbing of the brakes rather than fullon/off with any joystick button. Dave Henrie

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>> I use the Microsoft Sidewinder standard (no 3D rotation) which works >> very well for driving sims. Fairly inexpensive and reasonably durable. >> dglenn >Try the Miscrosoft 3D joystick if recalibrating frustrates you. This >joystick uses an optical mechanism instead of potentiometers so that >calibration is never necessary. Mine never drifts! >M Lewis

Well, I've already gotten some warning from others in this thread warning me against buying a Microsoft joystick because it is more sloppy than it should be. I gather that you wouldn't agree with that assessment? Yousuf Khan -- Yousuf J. Khan Ottawa, Ont, Canada Nation's capital

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> >> I use the Microsoft Sidewinder standard (no 3D rotation) which works > >> very well for driving sims. Fairly inexpensive and reasonably durable. > >> dglenn > >Try the Miscrosoft 3D joystick if recalibrating frustrates you. This > >joystick uses an optical mechanism instead of potentiometers so that > >calibration is never necessary. Mine never drifts! > >M Lewis > Well, I've already gotten some warning from others in this thread warning > me against buying a Microsoft joystick because it is more sloppy than it > should be. I gather that you wouldn't agree with that assessment? > Yousuf Khan > -- > Yousuf J. Khan > Ottawa, Ont, Canada > Nation's capital

I would agree with that assessment, actually, when considering racing simulations. I would first recommend a steering wheel (Thrustmaster T2). That's what I drive with. But, it does occasionally drift, whereas my microsoft sidewinder does not drift. The joystick is also cheaper ($50) than the steering wheel ($90-$100). Please forgive any confusion. I was only pointing out that the Sidewinder does not drift. It is not ideal for racing, though. M Lewis

Nope, I'm using the Y-axis for acceleration and braking. I got used to this control setting ever since F1GP1, and I carried it over to ICR1, and now GP2 and ICR2. But really, you are right, because if you ever pull a Gravis Gamepad apart, you'll see that its four axis are just buttons anyways. Yousuf Khan -- Yousuf J. Khan Ottawa, Ont, Canada Nation's capital