NASCAR 2 - Still not limit checking the Setups.

Drivers: I thought after all the crapola we went through with the fractional garages that Papyrus would limit check the setup for NASCAR 2. No.. Same holes in the games. Im not sure what they really check or dont but I plan to check it all out and report back. I can tell you one thing for sure and that CROSS WEIGHT. I know the game has a maxium cross weight of 150, but my NASCAR 1 setup uses a cross weight in excess of that. Well I used the trusty NASCAR 1 to NASCAR 2 N2SETUP.EXE converter that I think Dave wrote and presto. I still had 200 lbs of cross weight.. Never Dave or Papyrus checks this out. I know Dave will fix it.. I doubt Papyrus will. Ran a few laps with my old setup and could click off my 197's laps at TALADEGA. The Question now is what other limits have you found in the NASCAR 2 setup that are not being checked?? Tire Pressure Tire Compound (Hard, Medium, Soft) Left Weight Rear Weight Cross Weight ------------- Thats messed up... Front Spoiler ---- Can you use N2SETUP.EXE to modify a 4.0 spolier and run it and a 3.5 track as the spolier change for different tracks GEAR RATIO REAR SPOILER This time I think that we should all know the bugs with NASCAR 2 and this information should not be held by a special few.. Don Wilshe, IVGA [link lost in import] PS. I didnt write it I just test it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>I thought after all the crapola we went through with the >fractional garages that Papyrus would limit check the >setup for NASCAR 2. No.. Same holes in the games. Hi Don, How do know that there isn't some checksum for the setup?...Seems to me that just like in real racing, you can do whatever you want to your car - so long it's legal...I talked to Ed about this months ago, so before you're branded a worthless font of misinformation, you should think about the logic involved with the coming NRO. Check yer pistol at th' door... ;) Merry Christmas. Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing/

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> >I thought after all the crapola we went through with the > >fractional garages that Papyrus would limit check the > >setup for NASCAR 2. No.. Same holes in the games. > Hi Don, > How do know that there isn't some checksum for the setup?...Seems > to me that just like in real racing, you can do whatever you want to your > car - so long it's legal...I talked to Ed about this months ago, so before > you're branded a worthless font of misinformation, you should think about > the logic involved with the coming NRO. > Check yer pistol at th' door... ;) > Merry Christmas. > Marc J. Nelson > Sim Racing News - USA > http://members.aol.com/simracing/

Its easy let me explain.. I have a setup for Dega that has 180 lbs of cross weight. I ran the setup though N2SETUP and it gave me a NASCAR 2 setup with 180lbs of cross weight. That 30lbs greater than legal. I loaded the setup in NASCAR 2 and looked at the Setup display and it had 180lbs in it. I look at the CROSS WEIGHT Talk Button and it had 180lbs.. I looked in the default.st1 and it had 180lbs. Is that clear enough for you... Don Wilshe, IVGA Maybe you should check this stuff out before you editorize !!!!

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> > >I thought after all the crapola we went through with the > > >fractional garages that Papyrus would limit check the > > >setup for NASCAR 2. No.. Same holes in the games. > > Hi Don, > > How do know that there isn't some checksum for the setup?...Seems > > to me that just like in real racing, you can do whatever you want to your > > car - so long it's legal...I talked to Ed about this months ago, so before > > you're branded a worthless font of misinformation, you should think about > > the logic involved with the coming NRO. > > Check yer pistol at th' door... ;) > > Merry Christmas. > > Marc J. Nelson > > Sim Racing News - USA > > http://members.aol.com/simracing/ > Its easy let me explain.. I have a setup for Dega that has 180 lbs of > cross weight. I ran the setup though N2SETUP and it gave me a NASCAR 2 > setup with 180lbs of cross weight. That 30lbs greater than legal. > I loaded the setup in NASCAR 2 and looked at the Setup display and > it had 180lbs in it. I look at the CROSS WEIGHT Talk Button and > it had 180lbs.. I looked in the default.st1 and it had 180lbs. > Is that clear enough for you... > Don Wilshe, IVGA > Maybe you should check this stuff out before you editorize !!!!

Don, I think his point was that "NRO" could check these items at login, or during race start, or whenever. That is all that's needed to keep NRO fair. Secondly, you say it SHOWS 180, but nowhere have you said you tested the car and it was different from the maximum. Is it? I have talked with Joe Farr about N1 and several items "seemed" to take illegal values, but he couldn't validate that the game drove any different from these values anyway.

Marc: I reread my original post about the SETUP bugs. I never mentioned the NRO Don

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> > > >I thought after all the crapola we went through with the > > > >fractional garages that Papyrus would limit check the > > > >setup for NASCAR 2. No.. Same holes in the games. > > > Hi Don, > > > How do know that there isn't some checksum for the setup?...Seems > > > to me that just like in real racing, you can do whatever you want to your > > > car - so long it's legal...I talked to Ed about this months ago, so before > > > you're branded a worthless font of misinformation, you should think about > > > the logic involved with the coming NRO. > > > Check yer pistol at th' door... ;) > > > Merry Christmas. > > > Marc J. Nelson > > > Sim Racing News - USA > > > http://members.aol.com/simracing/ > > Its easy let me explain.. I have a setup for Dega that has 180 lbs of > > cross weight. I ran the setup though N2SETUP and it gave me a NASCAR 2 > > setup with 180lbs of cross weight. That 30lbs greater than legal. > > I loaded the setup in NASCAR 2 and looked at the Setup display and > > it had 180lbs in it. I look at the CROSS WEIGHT Talk Button and > > it had 180lbs.. I looked in the default.st1 and it had 180lbs. > > Is that clear enough for you... > > Don Wilshe, IVGA > > Maybe you should check this stuff out before you editorize !!!! > Don, > I think his point was that "NRO" could check these items at login, or > during race start, or whenever. That is all that's needed to keep NRO > fair. > Secondly, you say it SHOWS 180, but nowhere have you said you tested the > car and it was different from the maximum. Is it? I have talked with > Joe Farr about N1 and several items "seemed" to take illegal values, but > he couldn't validate that the game drove any different from these values > anyway.Guys:

I was talking about NASCAR 2, not NRO. I have no idea what NRO will be like and I hope its great. But you have to point out the BUGS somewhere... Don

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>Its easy let me explain.. I have a setup for Dega that has 180 lbs of >cross weight. I ran the setup though N2SETUP and it gave me a NASCAR 2 >setup with 180lbs of cross weight. That 30lbs greater than legal. >I loaded the setup in NASCAR 2 and looked at the Setup display and >it had 180lbs in it. I look at the CROSS WEIGHT Talk Button and >it had 180lbs.. I looked in the default.st1 and it had 180lbs. >Is that clear enough for you... >Don Wilshe, IVGA >Maybe you should check this stuff out before you editorize !!!!

Hi Don, Crystal...and I can create a setup with a modified front-airdam, but it doesn't mean I'll get by the NRO - hence my post to you sir. If someone wants to cheat, then it'll be damn hard to catch it...but things like this don't go on for very long. Sooner or later the person will wind up shooting himself in the foot. However (and as you know, this goes way back), if Papy's going to shut the door on 3rd-party software, then anyone NOT on the NRO is up for grabs...and personally, the only one allowed to grab me is my wife. ;) Best Regards, Marc

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> >Its easy let me explain.. I have a setup for Dega that has 180 lbs of > >cross weight. I ran the setup though N2SETUP and it gave me a NASCAR 2 > >setup with 180lbs of cross weight. That 30lbs greater than legal. > >I loaded the setup in NASCAR 2 and looked at the Setup display and > >it had 180lbs in it. I look at the CROSS WEIGHT Talk Button and > >it had 180lbs.. I looked in the default.st1 and it had 180lbs. > >Is that clear enough for you... > >Don Wilshe, IVGA > >Maybe you should check this stuff out before you editorize !!!! > Hi Don, > Crystal...and I can create a setup with a modified front-airdam, but it > doesn't mean I'll get by the NRO - hence my post to you sir. If someone > wants to cheat, then it'll be damn hard to catch it...but things like this > don't go on for very long. Sooner or later the person will wind up > shooting himself in the foot. > However (and as you know, this goes way back), if Papy's going to shut > the door on 3rd-party software, then anyone NOT on the NRO is up for > grabs...and personally, the only one allowed to grab me is my wife. ;) > Best Regards, > Marc

Your probably right about NRO catching this kind of stuff. But, what about the other leagues? It would be real nice if the software checked for this and other possible cheets. Lyman VanDerWege http://www.infi.net/~lymanv/tnms/tnms.htm

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> > Its easy let me explain.. I have a setup for Dega that has 180 lbs of > > cross weight. I ran the setup though N2SETUP and it gave me a NASCAR 2 > > setup with 180lbs of cross weight. That 30lbs greater than legal. > > I loaded the setup in NASCAR 2 and looked at the Setup display and > > it had 180lbs in it. I look at the CROSS WEIGHT Talk Button and > > it had 180lbs.. I looked in the default.st1 and it had 180lbs. > > Is that clear enough for you... > > Don Wilshe, IVGA > > Maybe you should check this stuff out before you editorize !!!! > Don, > I think his point was that "NRO" could check these items at login, or > during race start, or whenever. That is all that's needed to keep NRO > fair. > Secondly, you say it SHOWS 180, but nowhere have you said you tested the > car and it was different from the maximum. Is it? I have talked with > Joe Farr about N1 and several items "seemed" to take illegal values, but > he couldn't validate that the game drove any different from these values > anyway.

Good point. I loaded all my setups from multi.exe 1.38M directly into NCR2 before I had even heard of the N1->N2 setup converter. It didn't give me any trouble. I assumed that it ignored stagger and front air dam settings. I haven't been able to use many of these setups anyway as I have abandoned them in favor of modifying the Ace setup, however, I think I am still using 1 or 2. I can't believe Papyrus would overlook the limits again. So I suspect it is using the maximum limits as an override value. David Martin

writes: Unfortunately, this would have to be left-up to the league and its members. Best Regards, Marc Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing/

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> writes: > >Your probably right about NRO catching this kind of stuff. But, what > >about the other leagues? It would be real nice if the software checked > >for this and other possible cheets. > Unfortunately, this would have to be left-up to the league and its > members. > Best Regards, > Marc > Marc J. Nelson > Sim Racing News - USA > http://members.aol.com/simracing/

Thats how it was in N1. However Sierra didn't provide us with any tools then, and I doubt they will now. Any third party programmers working on this? http://www.infi.net/~lymanv/tnms/tnms.htm

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> writes: > >Your probably right about NRO catching this kind of stuff. But, what > >about the other leagues? It would be real nice if the software checked > >for this and other possible cheets. > Unfortunately, this would have to be left-up to the league and its > members. > Best Regards, > Marc > Marc J. Nelson > Sim Racing News - USA > http://members.aol.com/simracing/

Thats how it was in N1. However Sierra didn't provide us with any tools then, and I doubt they will now. Any third party programmers working on this? http://www.infi.net/~lymanv/tnms/tnms.htm

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> >Thats how it was in N1. However Sierra didn't provide us with any tools > >then, and I doubt they will now. Any third party programmers working on > >this? > Won't that get you in deep doo doo with the NRO providers?? i.e. ANY > addon > is illeagal and liable to get you booted. al la the IVGA?? > Dave Henrie

I don't want a program that tells me the setups. I just want a program that will stop someone from using an altered setup. If you can't adjust it from within the game then your cheeting. But Papyrus hasn't made it easy for us to be sure people aren't doing it. I wish the game would check by itself. But if they won't do it, how else can it be done?

> Your probably right about NRO catching this kind of stuff. But, what > about the other leagues? It would be real nice if the software checked > for this and other possible cheets. > Lyman VanDerWege > http://www.infi.net/~lymanv/tnms/tnms.htm We can't depend on Papyrus anymore for offline racing series. They have put all their efforts into making NRO the best and make their software worthless for offline series. Yes, I'm a cynic. But somebody's got to do it. Just once I'd like to see someone standup for the little people and show some balls when it comes to dealing with the power hungry entities in this world. David Martin

>Thats how it was in N1. However Sierra didn't provide us with any tools >then, and I doubt they will now. Any third party programmers working on >this? Won't that get you in deep doo doo with the NRO providers?? i.e. ANY addon is illeagal and liable to get you booted. al la the IVGA?? Dave Henrie

What is it that you are suggesting that we aren't checking in the game? I don't suspect we will make it "easy" for a third party to check into the internals of the game, but ratherl make sure we check it ourself. I think we already are. ---Jim Sokoloff