Steering wheel help

I bought my son a thrustmaster sterring wheel and pedel set for christmas , first is this a good choice? Someone told me that the wheel was not good for nascar because it had to fast of a response time and you could not keep the car on the track without going inside the computor and changing some cards is this true? If so what type should I buy that is compatable with my game and computor? I have nascar 2 and a pent.120 . Thank you.

> I bought my son a thrustmaster sterring wheel and pedel set for christmas , > first is this a good choice? Someone told me that the wheel was not good > for nascar because it had to fast of a response time and you could not > keep the car on the track without going inside the computor and changing > some cards is this true? If so what type should I buy that is compatable > with my game and computor? I have nascar 2 and a pent.120 . Thank you. You have bought the best wheel there is and it works just great with Indycar 1 and 2,Nascar 1 and 2. As for the "too fast of response" you adjust that in the garage under suspension. If the car turns too quick with a certain setup then set the wheel lock down a little that should take care of it.

>> I bought my son a thrustmaster sterring wheel and pedel set for christmas , >> first is this a good choice? Someone told me that the wheel was not good >> for nascar because it had to fast of a response time and you could not >> keep the car on the track without going inside the computor and changing >> some cards is this true? If so what type should I buy that is compatable

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>> with my game and computor? I have nascar 2 and a pent.120 . Thank you. >You have bought the best wheel there is and it works just great with >Indycar 1 and 2,Nascar 1 and 2. As for the "too fast of response" >you adjust that in the garage under suspension. If the car turns >too quick with a certain setup then set the wheel lock down a little >that should take care of it.

Well, not exactly....The T2 is about the only game in town for around a hundred bucks, but it's far from being *the best* IMO. Best Regards, Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing New - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm

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> >> I bought my son a thrustmaster sterring wheel and pedel set for > christmas , > >> first is this a good choice? Someone told me that the wheel was not > good > >> for nascar because it had to fast of a response time and you could not > >> keep the car on the track without going inside the computor and > changing > >> some cards is this true? If so what type should I buy that is > compatable > >> with my game and computor? I have nascar 2 and a pent.120 . Thank you. > >You have bought the best wheel there is and it works just great with > >Indycar 1 and 2,Nascar 1 and 2. As for the "too fast of response" > >you adjust that in the garage under suspension. If the car turns > >too quick with a certain setup then set the wheel lock down a little > >that should take care of it. > Well, not exactly....The T2 is about the only game in town for around > a hundred bucks, but it's far from being *the best* IMO. > Best Regards, > Marc J. Nelson > Sim Racing New - USA > http://members.aol.com/simracing/ > http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm

For the price you can't beat it. There are alot of better wheel/pedal combo's out there but they get real pricey. The wheel/pedal works fine on my 133 and Thrustmaster's post-purchase support is the BEST around. Mick in Tampa -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | ____ ___ ___| | Mike Schreiner |CNSRL ADMIN. | ---\ / / /__ | |http://pages.prodigy.com/CNSRL | | --\ / /---/_ | | "Mick" on Hawaii |Earnhardt Rules!!| -\/ / / | | "Mick_S" on Ten | | / | ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless you want to spend a bunch of money, the T2 is about the only thing to get. "Too fast of a response time" has nothing to do with the wheel itself. It is determined by control setup within the software, and the ability of the sound or game card (whichever you are using to connect the wheel to) to adapt to, or be set up properly for the speed of your computer. If you are using a sound card to connect the controller to and it is unable to adapt to the speed of your processor, erratic control will happen. The same thing happens if you are plugging into a speed adjustable game card which has not been properly set up. Karl

I'm using a Thrustmaster T-2 with Nascar 2 and have no problems. The 'fast response time' can be adjusted by setting the wheel lock lower in the car set up screen. I use around 6-8. -- -Paul Eigsti

>For the price you can't beat it. There are alot of better wheel/pedal >combo's out there but they get real pricey. The wheel/pedal works fine >on my 133 and Thrustmaster's post-purchase support is the BEST around. Hi Mike, Guess you didn't read it through...He said: "You bought the best there is", and I said "...only game in town for around a hundred bucks...far from being the best"...And yes, you can beat it, but it all depends on how much you value your time, and the quality expected. Best Regards, Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing/index.htm

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> >For the price you can't beat it. There are alot of better wheel/pedal > >combo's out there but they get real pricey. The wheel/pedal works fine > >on my 133 and Thrustmaster's post-purchase support is the BEST around. > Hi Mike, > Guess you didn't read it through...He said: "You bought the best there > is", > and I said "...only game in town for around a hundred bucks...far from > being > the best"...And yes, you can beat it, but it all depends on how much you > value your time, and the quality expected. > Best Regards, > Marc J. Nelson > Sim Racing News - USA > http://members.aol.com/simracing/index.htm

IYO there are better wheels,IMO there are not. To each his own.

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> Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators > Subject: Re: Steering wheel help > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:31:42 -0500 > Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. > Lines: 26 > NNTP-Posting-Host: cust114.max4.indianapolis.in.ms.uu.net > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) > > >For the price you can't beat it. There are alot of better wheel/pedal > > >combo's out there but they get real pricey. The wheel/pedal works fine > > >on my 133 and Thrustmaster's post-purchase support is the BEST around. > > Hi Mike,

Well lets not forget the GP1 by thrustmaster. They're about $10 cheaper than T2. And of about 15 people who have played the game now, I can safely say that all 15 (yes 100%) like the GP1 better, due to the acceleration and braking methods used with hands instead of feet, much faster response times and better feel. Can 15 out of 15 be worng? Q.B.M.

>And of about 15 people who have played the game now, I can safely >say that all 15 (yes 100%) like the GP1 better, due to the acceleration >and braking methods used with hands instead of feet, much faster >response times and better feel. 15 people?!!...I think Thrustmaster needs a new marketing campain!! ;) This would depend on who these people are I guess...However, I do agree that the paddles can be more effective in some situations, and if someone wanted pedals, then they could get the CH ones. FWIW, I will usually recommend a wheel over a js, but like the GP1 vs T2 issue, it will all come down to a matter of preference - one is not necessarily better than the other IMHO. Best Regards, Marc Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing/

Definitely, if none of them disagreed. When we tested wheels we found it was HUGELY a matter of personal preference, and had some good feedback on features of each wheel. Everyone aggreeing with each other sounds like a flawed testing procedure. Especially with something as radically different as putting analog gas and brake controls on the wheel, I can't believe everyone would agree it's better. Quite apart from the shorter range of movement and thereby lesser level of control of those areas, adjusting the steering would have some effect on the gas and brake pedal pressures. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall for that. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

>And of about 15 people who have played the game now, I can safely say that all >15 (yes 100%) like the GP1 better, due to the acceleration and braking methods >used with hands instead of feet, much faster response times and better feel. >Can 15 out of 15 be worng? We are 75 people in the company I am working in, and 74 are wrong all_ the_time. Now seriously: when I was choosing what wheel to buy between a T2 and a GP1 (the T2 already costs $190 here I live, I don't want to even think of another brand:(, I came across a review of the GP1 wheel in OGR. The reviewer said that the wheel was great, but as the gas/brake paddles were on the wheel his fingers were tiring quite fast. That made me go for the T2. Now I feel I don't have total control of the car (even with a TM ATM game card), compared to the utltra-precise throttle/brakes control I see in most replays from the Net. So: don't your fingers tire on a 100% race at say Monza or Hockenheim? Karim Sincerely, Karim ---------------------------------------- Warning: e-mail address protected by Anti-Bot Protection:) Please double any reply with an e-mail. My ISP loses them less often :(

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>Subject: Re: Steering wheel help >Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:03:21 +0000 >When we tested wheels we found it was HUGELY a matter of personal >preference, and had some good feedback on features of each wheel. >Everyone aggreeing with each other sounds like a flawed testing >procedure. >Especially with something as radically different as putting analog gas >and brake controls on the wheel, I can't believe everyone would agree >it's better. Quite apart from the shorter range of movement and thereby >lesser level of control of those areas, adjusting the steering would >have some effect on the gas and brake pedal pressures. >Cheers! >John

Controlling steering, brake and gas all at the same time with your hands is exactly what you do when riding a motorcycle and it works very well, better IMHO. Your hands and fingers are much more sensitive than your feet and can more easily make fine small adjustments. I currently have a ECC wheel/pedal system and I'm wanting to convert it to brake/gas padals.

Your fingers may be more sensitive than your feet, but when you're using them to balance steering, shift up and down the gears AND control both gas and brake, they are way too overloaded. On a motorbike you are controlling the gears and brake with your feet, and clutch and front brake have been transferred to your hands - it's more of a swap than a total shift to hand control. Using both hands and feet is still by far the best way to control either a real car or a sim car. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

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> On a motorbike you are controlling the gears and brake with your feet, > and clutch and front brake have been transferred to your hands - it's > more of a swap than a total shift to hand control. Using both hands and > feet is still by far the best way to control either a real car or a sim > car. > Cheers! > John

Hi John, Like you I prefer to drive real cars and sims with wheels and pedals. However, as a long time motorcyclist I can see how driving a sim with the GP1 might work very well. On a motorcycle all of the important controls that require a delicate touch are hand operated - steering, gas, clutch, and front wheel braking (70% of the braking capability is at the front wheel). My dad used to ride an AJS (English motorcycle) all over southern Michigan and he has only one leg! Happy New Year! Rick

WOn Wed, 01 Jan 1997 21:05:10 +0000, Rick Fisk

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>> On a motorbike you are controlling the gears and brake with your feet, >> and clutch and front brake have been transferred to your hands - it's >> more of a swap than a total shift to hand control. Using both hands and >> feet is still by far the best way to control either a real car or a sim >> car. >> Cheers! >> John >Hi John, >Like you I prefer to drive real cars and sims with wheels and pedals. >However, as a long time motorcyclist I can see how driving a sim with >the GP1 might work very well. On a motorcycle all of the important >controls that require a delicate touch are hand operated - steering, >gas, clutch, and front wheel braking (70% of the braking capability is >at the front wheel). My dad used to ride an AJS (English motorcycle) >all over southern Michigan and he has only one leg! >Happy New Year! >Rick

Well as someone who used to race both Motocross and later Road Raced in endurance races on motorcycles I can tell you this BOTH of your feet are very busy while racing!!! Compairing driving (or racing) a car to a motorcycle is a joke. No way no how is it the same thing. There are riders in F1 motorcycle racing who have had foot injures have had extra controls placed on the handlebars to operate the rear brake with their hands. So yes you do indeed use the rear brake, yes the front takes the major work while racing but at times you need to use the rear to make the bike stable. I have had the rear brakes stop working one time due to a brake hose bursting and it made racing a lot harder in that race. At least I have raced at Daytona four times in real life so I guess I can wait out for another three years until with get it in N2 or N3. By then Sega probably will give it up I hope. Jack

Hand controlled throttle and brake are the hot tip? Better let the "real world" F1, NASCAR, and Indycar people in on this new secret that we sim guys just discovered! Has anybody noticed that when riding a motorcycle, turning is accomplished by shifting of weight, and *not* by turning the handlebars? In a turn, the amount of handlebar movement is so small as to hardly even be noticeable, and allows for use of hands for other functions, unlike a car wheel which requires relatively massive amounts of movement, and cannot possibly allow for enough control accuracy of controls which require proportional inputs (i.e. throttle and brake) as opposed to those which require on/off inputs (i.e. shifting via paddles or buttons). Karl

The paddles are analog, not digital, and they work much beter IMHO than the T2 peddles. Adios

Steering a motorcycle is done by what is called "Countersteering" you turn left to go right & right to go left, not by shifting weight. This is not BS! Try it or better yet read any book such as "Twist of the wrist" that deals with motorcycle road racing. To test this out if you ride a motorcycle (or a bike if you go fast enough) PUSH on the right side handlebar with the palm of your hand...GUESS what way you will turn? You will turn to the right NOT the left like most would think. This is countersteering when you master this that is what sets apart the very fast from the fast while racing. The shifting of weight or leaning off is not what make it steer. Remember a bike or motorcycle while moving is a giant gyroscope. If you try the countersteering as I said by pushing right (or you could just yank to the left to turn right also) BE CAREFULL you will turn to the right like RIGHT NOW! Find the book " A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code it tells a lot about why a how a motorcycle turns and how to do it fast. The leaning (or*** off) is a result of the turning process not what causes the process. NOW for all the stuff about wheels with or without pedals or hand controls.....USE what you like!! F1 cars shift at the wheels and have a pit speed control button, but they still have to use foot controls for gas and brake (dunno about the clutch with the button shift?). Also I think they were playing with auto trans in F1. Jack

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> >Hand controlled throttle and brake are the hot tip? > >Better let the "real world" F1, NASCAR, and Indycar > >people in on this new secret that we sim guys just discovered! > >Has anybody noticed that when riding a > >motorcycle, turning is accomplished by shifting of > >weight, and *not* by turning the handlebars? > >In a turn, the amount of handlebar movement is > >so small as to hardly even be noticeable, and allows > >for use of hands for other functions, unlike a car > >wheel which requires relatively massive amounts > >of movement, and cannot possibly allow for > >enough control accuracy of controls which > >require proportional inputs (i.e. throttle and brake) > >as opposed to those which require on/off inputs > >(i.e. shifting via paddles or buttons). > >Karl > Steering a motorcycle is done by what is called "Countersteering" > you turn left to go right & right to go left, not by shifting weight. > This is not BS! Try it or better yet read any book such as "Twist of > the wrist" that deals with motorcycle road racing. > To test this out if you ride a motorcycle (or a bike if you go fast > enough) PUSH on the right side handlebar with the palm of your > hand...GUESS what way you will turn? You will turn to the right NOT > the left like most would think. This is countersteering when you > master this that is what sets apart the very fast from the fast while > racing. The shifting of weight or leaning off is not what make it > steer. Remember a bike or motorcycle while moving is a giant > gyroscope. > If you try the countersteering as I said by pushing right (or you > could just yank to the left to turn right also) BE CAREFULL you will > turn to the right like RIGHT NOW! > Find the book " A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code it tells a lot > about why a how a motorcycle turns and how to do it fast. > The leaning (or*** off) is a result of the turning process not > what causes the process. > NOW for all the stuff about wheels with or without pedals or hand > controls.....USE what you like!! F1 cars shift at the wheels and have > a pit speed control button, but they still have to use foot controls > for gas and brake (dunno about the clutch with the button shift?). > Also I think they were playing with auto trans in F1. > Jack

FYI: For F1 the clutch can either be hand-operated or foot operated. The clutch is only used normally for the engagement of 1st gear from a stop. Push-button shifts require no clutching normally. Some drivers (ex. Jaques Villeneuve) use the hand clutch in order to allow left foot braking. Otherwise the closely placed pedals hinder this. M Lewis