Kali and NASCAR 2

I'd like to include a section on Kali and NASCAR 2 in the N2 FAQ. Are there any Kali gurus out there willing to write something up? Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

Yes. I am a Kali/Kahn guru I guess. First let me ask... HAS ANYONE TRIED NASCAR2 WITH KAHN YET??? Kahn works better for some games while kali works better for others. Allow me to explain... ATF (advanced Tatical Fighters) was absolutley UNPLAYABLE on Kali. Freezing, lockups going in and out of the game, major warping and a frame-rate so low and choppy I got seasick looking at it. ATF on Kahn was totally different. No lockups. No freezing. No warping. Absolutely smooth flying IF the ping was lower than 500. Anything above 500 and you would start noticing little freezes but nothing like Kali. I don't have N2. But I am VERY curious as to what kind of results people are getting with Kahn. I have a hunch Kahn will work very well with N2. I also have the distinct privilege of knowing Norman Bright (the Kahn creator) and I can ASSURE all you Nascar2 racers that Norman would develop network code specifically for Nascar2 if he thought it would bring a few racers over to Kahn. He has done this for SU27 Flanker pilots, VPOOL players, MTM players...etc. He is very responsive and I think he would be happy to help you guys. I think I'll be buying Nascar2 tonite!!! I will write Norman and tell him to work on this... Aferall, if it barely works on Kali, I am sure it will work on Kahn with great results. Kahn is free. Get it at www.teleport.com/~nbright corn > I'd like to include a section on Kali and NASCAR 2 in the N2 FAQ. Are there > any Kali gurus out there willing to write something up? > Dave (davids) Sparks > Late Night League > http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

PMFJI, but could you also send me some more info on Kahn?..Thanks! Best Regards, Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm

I downloaded Kahn and connected it was easy. The room is a little confusing. It would be nice to have a seperate room for racers. I did try and connect with another player but we were unsuccessful. The ping rates look promising. Please e-mail me when it is set up to run Nascar2. Thanks

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>Yes. I am a Kali/Kahn guru I guess. First let me ask... HAS ANYONE TRIED >NASCAR2 WITH KAHN YET??? >Kahn works better for some games while kali works better for others. >Allow me to explain... >ATF (advanced Tatical Fighters) was absolutley UNPLAYABLE on Kali. >Freezing, lockups going in and out of the game, major warping and a >frame-rate so low and choppy I got seasick looking at it. >ATF on Kahn was totally different. No lockups. No freezing. No warping. >Absolutely smooth flying IF the ping was lower than 500. Anything above >500 and you would start noticing little freezes but nothing like Kali. >I don't have N2. But I am VERY curious as to what kind of results people >are getting with Kahn. I have a hunch Kahn will work very well with N2. >I also have the distinct privilege of knowing Norman Bright (the Kahn >creator) and I can ASSURE all you Nascar2 racers that Norman would >develop network code specifically for Nascar2 if he thought it would >bring a few racers over to Kahn. He has done this for SU27 Flanker >pilots, VPOOL players, MTM players...etc. He is very responsive and I >think he would be happy to help you guys. I think I'll be buying Nascar2 >tonite!!! >I will write Norman and tell him to work on this... Aferall, if it >barely works on Kali, I am sure it will work on Kahn with great results. >Kahn is free. Get it at www.teleport.com/~nbright

I have both Kali and Kahn, and it seems to work well with both. I have had some trouble getting into races with more than 2 people on Kali though. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to try it with more than one other person on Kahn, so I can't make a comparison here. I did ask the Where To Race people if they'd consider setting up a Kahn server along with their Kali server, but thus far they haven't shown much interest in Kahn. Maybe if a few more people write to them and request it, they'll put one up (the server code is free, after all <g>). David You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.

Iv'e tried NASCAR2 over both Kali and Kahn. I connected with a friend, who was on the same ISP server. I thought this would give us a GREAT connection for multi-player racing. Unfortunatly I was wrong. NASCAR2 reported between .18 and .25 latency. We connected several times trying to get a better connection. At these letencies, the cars warp way too much. I would be VERY interested if Kali or Kahn could produce a fix that would allow local leagues to race with the same ISP at acceptable latencies. I already have a group of drivers running a modem series in N1. We plan on going to N2 with 8 player IPX. That's if we can do without great expense, and hastles. We could all purchase NIC cards for cheep, but it would be a hastle to all cary our computers to a central location. Iv'e also researched setting up a dial in server, but thats a lot of mony for an untested method.

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> >Yes. I am a Kali/Kahn guru I guess. First let me ask... HAS ANYONE TRIED > >NASCAR2 WITH KAHN YET??? > >Kahn works better for some games while kali works better for others. > >Allow me to explain... > >ATF (advanced Tatical Fighters) was absolutley UNPLAYABLE on Kali. > >Freezing, lockups going in and out of the game, major warping and a > >frame-rate so low and choppy I got seasick looking at it. > >ATF on Kahn was totally different. No lockups. No freezing. No warping. > >Absolutely smooth flying IF the ping was lower than 500. Anything above > >500 and you would start noticing little freezes but nothing like Kali. > >I don't have N2. But I am VERY curious as to what kind of results people > >are getting with Kahn. I have a hunch Kahn will work very well with N2. > >I also have the distinct privilege of knowing Norman Bright (the Kahn > >creator) and I can ASSURE all you Nascar2 racers that Norman would > >develop network code specifically for Nascar2 if he thought it would > >bring a few racers over to Kahn. He has done this for SU27 Flanker > >pilots, VPOOL players, MTM players...etc. He is very responsive and I > >think he would be happy to help you guys. I think I'll be buying Nascar2 > >tonite!!! > >I will write Norman and tell him to work on this... Aferall, if it > >barely works on Kali, I am sure it will work on Kahn with great results. > >Kahn is free. Get it at www.teleport.com/~nbright > I have both Kali and Kahn, and it seems to work well with both. I > have had some trouble getting into races with more than 2 people on > Kali though. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to try it with > more than one other person on Kahn, so I can't make a comparison here. > I did ask the Where To Race people if they'd consider setting up a > Kahn server along with their Kali server, but thus far they haven't > shown much interest in Kahn. Maybe if a few more people write to them > and request it, they'll put one up (the server code is free, after all > <g>). > David > You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.

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> .18 is actually quite good for a connection through an ISP. Even if > your both on the same server, just the fact that there are 4 modems in > the link rather than 2 will add a lot more lag than a straight dial-up > connection. > Also, are you both in the same city, connecting to the same local ISP, > or are you long distance using a national ISP like Netcom or > Concentric? If you're both truely on a local server, then you should > be able to get a virtually warp-free game going.

You've got 4 modems involved, two terminal servers, two Ethernet cards, a backbone, (possibly a leased line between POPs), miles of copper for the local loops. Of course you're going to get relatively high latencies. Being on the "same ISP" isn't necessarily the same as being at the same POP. (You are correct in saying that the best results will be found by dialing into a server at the same POP you and all your opponents are dialing into. The fact that they belong to the same ISP is not sufficient information to predict the game quality...) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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>Iv'e tried NASCAR2 over both Kali and Kahn. I connected with a friend, >who was on the same ISP server. I thought this would give us a GREAT >connection for multi-player racing. Unfortunatly I was wrong. NASCAR2 >reported between .18 and .25 latency. We connected several times trying >to get a better connection. At these letencies, the cars warp way too >much. I would be VERY interested if Kali or Kahn could produce a fix >that would allow local leagues to race with the same ISP at acceptable >latencies. I already have a group of drivers running a modem series in >N1. We plan on going to N2 with 8 player IPX. That's if we can do >without great expense, and hastles. We could all purchase NIC cards for >cheep, but it would be a hastle to all cary our computers to a central >location. Iv'e also researched setting up a dial in server, but thats a >lot of mony for an untested method.

.18 is actually quite good for a connection through an ISP. Even if your both on the same server, just the fact that there are 4 modems in the link rather than 2 will add a lot more lag than a straight dial-up connection. Also, are you both in the same city, connecting to the same local ISP, or are you long distance using a national ISP like Netcom or Concentric? If you're both truely on a local server, then you should be able to get a virtually warp-free game going. If your on a large national ISP though, that's not necessarily any better than connecting over the internet. In fact, some of the REALLY big ones like AOL and Compuserve generally have much worse connections from one node to another than you can get from two ISPs with good ping times over the net. David You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.

> It would be nice to have a seperate room for racers. I did try and connect > with another player but we were unsuccessful. The ping rates look > promising. How do you find out what your "ping" rate is? Paul

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> >Iv'e tried NASCAR2 over both Kali and Kahn. I connected with a friend, > >who was on the same ISP server. I thought this would give us a GREAT > >connection for multi-player racing. Unfortunatly I was wrong. NASCAR2 > >reported between .18 and .25 latency. We connected several times trying > >to get a better connection. At these letencies, the cars warp way too > >much. I would be VERY interested if Kali or Kahn could produce a fix > >that would allow local leagues to race with the same ISP at acceptable > >latencies. I already have a group of drivers running a modem series in > >N1. We plan on going to N2 with 8 player IPX. That's if we can do > >without great expense, and hastles. We could all purchase NIC cards for > >cheep, but it would be a hastle to all cary our computers to a central > >location. Iv'e also researched setting up a dial in server, but thats a > >lot of mony for an untested method. > .18 is actually quite good for a connection through an ISP. Even if > your both on the same server, just the fact that there are 4 modems in > the link rather than 2 will add a lot more lag than a straight dial-up > connection. > Also, are you both in the same city, connecting to the same local ISP, > or are you long distance using a national ISP like Netcom or > Concentric? If you're both truely on a local server, then you should > be able to get a virtually warp-free game going. If your on a large > national ISP though, that's not necessarily any better than connecting > over the internet. In fact, some of the REALLY big ones like AOL and > Compuserve generally have much worse connections from one node to > another than you can get from two ISPs with good ping times over the > net. > David > You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.

I think thats the problem. We were using an ISP that has locations in other cities. So, even though we were both in the same city (calling the same phone number), our traffic may have been going to thier central hub and back again? Testing will continue though. :)

I play on kali with .18 .30 latency and it works fine 75% of the time.

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> Iv'e tried NASCAR2 over both Kali and Kahn. I connected with a friend, > who was on the same ISP server. I thought this would give us a GREAT > connection for multi-player racing. Unfortunatly I was wrong. NASCAR2 > reported between .18 and .25 latency. We connected several times trying > to get a better connection. At these letencies, the cars warp way too > much. I would be VERY interested if Kali or Kahn could produce a fix > that would allow local leagues to race with the same ISP at acceptable > latencies. I already have a group of drivers running a modem series in > N1. We plan on going to N2 with 8 player IPX. That's if we can do > without great expense, and hastles. We could all purchase NIC cards for > cheep, but it would be a hastle to all cary our computers to a central > location. Iv'e also researched setting up a dial in server, but thats a > lot of mony for an untested method. > > >Yes. I am a Kali/Kahn guru I guess. First let me ask... HAS ANYONE TRIED > > >NASCAR2 WITH KAHN YET??? > > >Kahn works better for some games while kali works better for others. > > >Allow me to explain... > > >ATF (advanced Tatical Fighters) was absolutley UNPLAYABLE on Kali. > > >Freezing, lockups going in and out of the game, major warping and a > > >frame-rate so low and choppy I got seasick looking at it. > > >ATF on Kahn was totally different. No lockups. No freezing. No warping. > > >Absolutely smooth flying IF the ping was lower than 500. Anything above > > >500 and you would start noticing little freezes but nothing like Kali. > > >I don't have N2. But I am VERY curious as to what kind of results people > > >are getting with Kahn. I have a hunch Kahn will work very well with N2. > > >I also have the distinct privilege of knowing Norman Bright (the Kahn > > >creator) and I can ASSURE all you Nascar2 racers that Norman would > > >develop network code specifically for Nascar2 if he thought it would > > >bring a few racers over to Kahn. He has done this for SU27 Flanker > > >pilots, VPOOL players, MTM players...etc. He is very responsive and I > > >think he would be happy to help you guys. I think I'll be buying Nascar2 > > >tonite!!! > > >I will write Norman and tell him to work on this... Aferall, if it > > >barely works on Kali, I am sure it will work on Kahn with great results. > > >Kahn is free. Get it at www.teleport.com/~nbright > > I have both Kali and Kahn, and it seems to work well with both. I > > have had some trouble getting into races with more than 2 people on > > Kali though. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to try it with > > more than one other person on Kahn, so I can't make a comparison here. > > I did ask the Where To Race people if they'd consider setting up a > > Kahn server along with their Kali server, but thus far they haven't > > shown much interest in Kahn. Maybe if a few more people write to them > > and request it, they'll put one up (the server code is free, after all > > <g>). > > David > > You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.

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>> .18 is actually quite good for a connection through an ISP. Even if >> your both on the same server, just the fact that there are 4 modems in >> the link rather than 2 will add a lot more lag than a straight dial-up >> connection. >> Also, are you both in the same city, connecting to the same local ISP, >> or are you long distance using a national ISP like Netcom or >> Concentric? If you're both truely on a local server, then you should >> be able to get a virtually warp-free game going. >You've got 4 modems involved, two terminal servers, two Ethernet cards, >a backbone, (possibly a leased line between POPs), miles of copper for >the local loops. Of course you're going to get relatively high >latencies. Being on the "same ISP" isn't necessarily the same as being >at the same POP. (You are correct in saying that the best results will >be found by dialing into a server at the same POP you and all your >opponents are dialing into. The fact that they belong to the same ISP is >not sufficient information to predict the game quality...)

Depends on the ISP. If your talking a national or regional ISP, then what you say is correct. OTOH, if you are talking a small local ISP, then everyone should probably be on the same server. You still have the 4 modems and all the ISP overhead to deal with of course, and if the server is bogged down that could really muck things up. Overall though, you should, in most cases, get better performance if all participants are dialed into the same *local* ISP. If your using a regional or National ISP, then all bets are off. David *** You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.***

That's probably what's happening. If you can find a small ISP that's local to your area, you'll probably get better performance. Another alternative is to check and see if there are any local BBSes that support the Game Connection. There's a utility available for the Game Connection called SERIPX that works sort of like Kali for the Game connection. I haven't tried Nascar II on a GC BBS, but it should work, and you're garanteed to be on the same server. I think there is a list of game connection BBSes available www.teleport.com/~caustic. At least there was last time I checked, which was quite a while ago. David *** You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.***