NCR2 What do I need?

I've been saving for an upgrade for my DX66 when NCR came out...It's out, and I've been trying to gauge how high up the tech ladder I have to go. I plan on buying a CPU and board for my existing system and probably a video card (although I'd like to delay that until I can get a 3D card). I'd like to run 30+ cars with most graphics and get a good frame rate with maybe 6 or 7 ahead..So what do I need? I'm also debating the Cyrix vs Pentium thing.....P100? Cyrix? If anyone has some tips, I'd be thankful! Lou B. Hawaii: Rustbucket

You really shouldn't get anything lower than a P166. I'd wait until January and get a new MB with an MMX Pentium (the P55C). BTW, the Reactor is only $149 until Dec 31st. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

says... 1) RAM. I'd reccommend the first thing you buy is two 16 meg simms, so you're at 32 megs. If you already have this much in your 486, you can bring it over to the new board if it's the 72-pin variety. Don't even think about buying a Pentium motherboard with 30-pin simm slots or using simm converters, they're just too slow. 2) VIDEO CARD. The fastest way to play Nascar2 is with a Rendition based board, and this probably won't change anytime soon. The Intergraph Reactor is a great deal at $149. Unless you already have a fast brand-name card, using your current video board in a Pentium will create a big bottleneck. Putting this card in a reasonably fast machine will give you the graphics level you want., and can only get better. 3) MAINBOARD. Pentium or Cyrix? Hmmmm. I think i'll steer clear of reccommending one over the other. I don't want to start a holy war here, like in the comp.sys.ibm-pc.* groups, where just such a debate has been going on for I-don't-know-how-long. Either way, get a mainboard that supports the Cyrix's 75mhz bus speed. That way, you have the option of overclocking the Pentium's bus speed if you desire, which can make a BIG difference in overall system speediness. 4) PROCESSOR. Basically, buy the fastest chip your budget will allow after you've decided on the items above. I wouldn't wait for MMX. Games have to be specially written to take advantage ot it, plus i've read it doesn't provide that big a speed increase. They'll probably be mucho expensive too. I think you'd be better off having the Rendition board. Here are a couple of sites for you to visit: http://sysdoc.pair.com/ Tom's Hardware & Performance Guide, a great site about motherboards, overclocking, and other cool stuff. Lots of good information here. http://www.pricewatch.com/ Price Watch, a site that searches for component prices on the web. It'll tell you who has the best price on memory, hard disks, etc.

I second that. I would say P200 - the more power the better. You can probably get away with a little less cpu if you get a Reactor - but sooner or later you will wish you had the extra power. If the MMX is really going to arrive in January - waiting is a good idea. If nothing else, it will push down the price of existing Pentiums. Of course - I wouldn't be able to wait. /THansen

Excellent performance while considering dollars: 16 meg. min. $80 P133 VX or HX aprox. $335 Reactor Board $150 This will get you runnin good. Q.B.M.

Considering the MMX chips are already out to some degree, it's not much of a wait. Also even with non-MMX apps, they are 10-20% faster than a similarly clocked Pentium Classic. Once they are out in volumes (January), prices should be quite similar to current Pentiums. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

And what's your point? It's still faster than a similarly clocked Pentium, and there will be games coded for it. Epic's Unreal is one, and their is talk that Falcon 4.0 will be as well. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

You can't honestly be saying that you would advise someone looking for a new CPU to purchase a P200 instead of waiting a few weeks for the P200MMX's to be generally available? You don't need any MMX-enhanced software to take advantage of the chip. Even if were no MMX apps, I would buy the P55C over a P54C for these reasons alone: ?doubling of the L1 caches, 16kB data and 16 kB instruction cache ?doubling of the Write Buffers, now 4 instead of 2 ?new branch prediction unit, taken from the Pentium Pro ?implementation of a Return Stack, as known from the Cyrix/IBM 6x86 ?increase of the Pipelines by one step ?improvement of the Parallel Processing Ability of the two pipelines (again, this info taken from http://sysdoc.pair.com/cpu.html) -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

writes: REPLY: Yes there's one whole game. Can't rmember the name though. It's like Necrodome and came out a couple weeks after it. Powerdrone or something or another. I remeber it clearly stating it support mmx right out of the box. I did chuckle at that one. I'm waiting for 3d accelerated games and a mmx game comes out. Go figure. Anybody have a review on that game usiong MMX??? Hahaha Q.B.M.

Thanks for all of yourgreat responses! I love this group!!!!!!! (hope I didn't start any wars <G>) Lou B. Hawaii:Rustbucket

That's because officially the chips aren't supposed to be out. They are in very limited quantities, thus the high price. Once they are officially released, the prices should be much closer to current P54Cs. If the price does not drop, then I could conceive buying the P54C instead. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

I went through the same thing about six weeks ago building a new system to replace my three year old DX2/66. Here's what I came up with (prices are what I paid then): * Supermicro P5STE MB w/512k cache ($209) * Pentium 133 ($229 + $13 fan/heatsink) * 32 meg EDO ($200) * Intergraph Reactor ($150) These components meet the performance criteria you listed. With *everything* turned on (39 cars, 39 forward, 39 behind, all details on, pace lap at the back of the pack at Talladega) I bottom out around 13-14 fps with the Rendition version of NASCAR2 (10-11 with stock SVGA), but easily over 20 fps once the traffic clears a bit. The motherboard gives good performance. Make sure to get ver. 3 (or later?) of the hardware. I got mine from Megatrends and had mixed service. You'll find good info on Megatrends WWW site: "http://www.megacom.com" and in the "alt.comp.periphs.mainboard. supermicro" newsgroup. They will suggest a minimum 250 watt power supply and I followed that advice (with a new case & PS). As far as a CPU, the Pentium 133 gives the best bang for the buck right now (or a few weeks ago, at least ;) -- faster chips were too pricy for the small performance gain (P166 was ~$170 more for ~15% more speed). The new MMX Pentiums due out soon will drive prices lower (and the P5STE will work with MMX chips, I'm considering one in a year or so once the prices drop). Remember to stick with 33MHz-multiple Pentiums (100, 133, 166, 200) to get the fast 33MHz video bus. A P100 might be worth considering if money is tight (P120 won't give you much more speed with its 30MHz video bus). I looked at Cyrix but the incompatabilities (particularly with Papyrus software and the Reactor) ruled it out. The recent AMD PR133 looks attractive, but the NASCAR2 README says it isn't supported, so I don't know if it would work. If you have 72-pin memory, you can probably use it in this motherboard. However, its so cheap nowadays, I decided to go with new faster EDO in a decent quantity. NASCAR2 requires 16meg (I think) and the Rendition version requires 24meg for full textures (boy, I didn't think I'd *need* it this soon ;). 32 meg is a nice size and the price is even lower now. Finally, the Intergraph Reactor (or Sierra Screamin' 3D or Creative Labs 3D Blaster PCI) are Rendition Verite-based 3D-accelerated video card. It's an all-in-one 2D/3D solution. VGA is slow, VESA VGA/SVGA is fast, Win95 (no Win 3.1 drivers!) 2D is good, and accelerated 3D is good. ICR2-3D is bundled with the Reactor and Screamin' 3D and NASCAR2 is "Rendition ready" (works out of the box with any of these accelerators). I found the Rendition version of NASCAR2 gave me ~30% better frame rates under heavy load vs. the stock SVGA version. The difference between the stock and 3D versions of ICR2 is even more stunning. I'd suggest the Reactor card to get ICR2-3D, for better tech support, and its discounted to $150 until December 31 (vs. $200 for Screamin' 3D). See "http://www.intergraph.com/ics/reactor/". In conclusion, for under $600 (using your own memory, even less if you go for a cheaper brand motherboard) you can have a real nice sim-racing machine. I finished mine off with a 2.5 meg WD HD, Sony 8x CD, Thrustmaster T2... Will it ever end? ;) Good luck with your upgrade! Pick one or more: Model Rockets (competition-NERCB) / PCs (even Atari!) / Papyrus ICR-ICR2-NCR / Who needs a life when you have multiple non-lives?

Personally I'll stick with the P133's. The next motherboard upgrade will be MMX and AGP equiped, and probably be the second or third mhz upgrade. For EX: Ppro-MMX-AGP 200mhz released. (Won't buy it) Ppro-MMX-AGP 250mhz released. (Might buy the 200mhz version now) Ppro-MMX-AGP 300mhz released (The 200mhz version is probably ok in cost to purchase) That's my plan atm. I buy in 4's. Q.B.M.