Ok, so you respect someone who admits that he cheats. Good for you.
What blinders? He admits to cheating. This does not make it ok.
Except in Real World racing, you don't hear too many teams admitting to it.
Why not? They don't want to be penalized. Why would they be penalized?
Because it is wrong.
So far, he is the only one to fess up to it. So, would you also respect
someone who stood up and said, ' Damn right I robbed that store '? This is
a little extreme, but falls in the same category.
In both cases, the person is still guilty. No respect is due to either
one.
There are no _Grey_ areas here. Just right and wrong.
Quoted text (38 lines)
> Julian Data you have my respect. > Let me clairify, did anyone think that no one ever hacked Nascar > Racing or other sims? Did you think that if there is 100s of utilitys, > tracks, converters etc , that there might be other types of utilities > of a competitve nature? > If anyone did not think so, I have some other news for you..... > there is no tooth fairy, easter bunny, or even Santa Clause!!!! > Shocking isnt it? > Julian has taken far too much ***from people with there blinders > on. I am not happy that one can hack their way into an advantage, > but this is not a perfect world. In real racing it happens and in > virtual racing it does and will happen. Nascar officials are going to > have their hands more than full with this issue. If hackers can > decode, unlock, and outright steal any electronic key they want, a > little sim program is nothing. Not even a good afternoons work. > I hope that Julian has provided a wake up call to some, at least he > has the guts to stand up and say "Damn right I did this". Does anyone > think that he is the only one? Please. > The only way Nascar could ensure a level playing field is to have > competition centers. These facilities would have a complete 30 machine > network in regional centers, drivers would compete on these machines. > The drivers would bring thier own setups (to be inspected by tech > officials at the center). If a driver wished he could also bring his > own wheel and pedals. > Nascar could seal the machines in a room with multiple security > devices, locks and gaurd. > I think that the NRL as proposed will be an amusing pastime, but > nothing to be taken very seriously. If Nascar does do something along > the lines of my proposal, then we could get serious. > Nascar could even equip a semi, and roll it to different hotel > ballrooms etc. > RacerX > P.S If this idea gets done , I would like a job. 50k or so would be ok > If I get to compete free ;) > Doug GreerQuoted text (27 lines)
> > Julian Data you have my respect. > Ok, so you respect someone who admits that he cheats. Good for you. > > Julian has taken far too much ***from people with there blinders > > on. > What blinders? He admits to cheating. This does not make it ok. > > In real racing it happens and in > > virtual racing it does and will happen. > Except in Real World racing, you don't hear too many teams admitting to it. > Why not? They don't want to be penalized. Why would they be penalized? > Because it is wrong. > > I hope that Julian has provided a wake up call to some, at least he > > has the guts to stand up and say "Damn right I did this". Does anyone > > think that he is the only one? Please. > So far, he is the only one to fess up to it. So, would you also respect > someone who stood up and said, ' Damn right I robbed that store '? This is > a little extreme, but falls in the same category. > In both cases, the person is still guilty. No respect is due to either > one. > There are no _Grey_ areas here. Just right and wrong.I try to get on every few weeks, but the call from El Paso to Hawaii
central is just too expensive. When I am there, I go under the name of
Chieftain. I usually finish in the top 5, but this is because I take a
provisional, i.e. start last, and wait for the others to crash in front of
me. :-)
Robert
You're right Robert, just right and wrong. Cheating is wrong. I don't
know why someone would want to win by cheating, you know you're not
better than the other drivers, just have better (equipment) let's call it.
How good are the cheaters really? Do they know. Some may be vary good,
and some may suck. When I run Dega and can keep up with the best of
them. I have seen 198.2++ , and never thought they were cheating, just
ran a better line. But now I wonder if there are more than a few at Dega.
I really don't run much at Dega anymore (mostly because of the wrecks
and bad decission by a few drivers trying to win at ANY cost). I think
cheating is wrong and don't think I would even consider it if I could do
it.
Just my 2 cents worth
Higgy
On 4 Nov 1996 19:09:17 GMT, "Robert Johnson"
[snip]
Robert,
So you take the m***high ground and totally ignore the last
paragraph of my post.......
Do you think sitting on the sidelines saying "cheater, cheater...you
are wrong, no gray " solves anything?
Let us say you are completely right ok? Feel better now?
B eing right does not address the issue of an officially sanctioned
racing league and controls of a level playing field for competitors.
Is the solution to castrate anyone who demonstrates that the system
falls short? In effect that is all Julian did, of his own accord. If
he said nothing and just did nothing then maybe I could join in your
song of he sux etc.
The issue raised by Mr.Data was long over due in my book. . Julian is
no hacker by any means. Knowing what a hex editor is a putzing around
with it is not what I call a serious attempt to hack. When the NRL is
official I will bet then we might see some real talented hackers.
I for one no that there will be NO WAY that outside of a competition
center as I proposed, with Nascars computers and officials seeing the
competitors race will a bonafide fair race take place. Could anyone
respond to my thought?
To the guy who says if papyrus can force an ace setup they can do
anything, take a class cause you do not have even a slight clue of
what can be done by some. Id software put thier entire line of
products on one CD for ten bucks. All you had to do was call and get
an unlock code after they got your credit card info, sounds like a
great idea right? The CD generates a random 10-12 digit code only good
1 time, well anyway within 2 weeks of its realease it was cracked lock
stock and barrel. Hmm I am sure some where there was a guy like you
saying it is totally safe.( I bet he needs a job now )
RacerX
Actually, I thought I did address you last paragraph. But here it is
again. An admitted cheater is still a cheater. Why respect that?
Externally modifies the program, then blantly announces the fact, then
sticks his tongue out at everyone and says' Papyrus didn't say I couldn't,
so therefore I can.' Where is the respect due?
Actually, no. But condoning the act of cheating, as is your policy, only
encourages others to do the same.
This doesn't get past the BS detector. He wasn't exposing an area where
others cheated. He said here is how I go fast, just break out the hex/text
editor. He still hasn't said it was wrong. He is still saying ' Rules?
What rules? ' It doesn't say I can't, so therefore I can. ' He isn't
doing it to expose any weakness in the system, just to be first.
Never said he sux, or even sucks, only that he cheats. Oh BTW, cheating
does suck.
And will you condone that cheating as well? Are you saying it is ok to
cheat, as long as you admit to it?
Yes, when you join the race, have NRL make everyone use the same Carset and
Track.Txt file. This should be easy enough to check. If the racer's files
do not match the race ones, either boot them off or upload the 'official'
files to their computer, then use those.
I am sure there are hackers out there who can do a lot, but some credit
needs to go to the guys at Papyrus as well. We are talking about hacking
something while online, not over a few hours, or days.
And as long as the person who cracks it admits to it, it is ok, right?
