POPS, i'm curious to know how they are cheating on the qualification?
This might sound
like a dumb question, but I have not raced on Hawaii yet and plan to in
the near future!
Thanks -David Gary
Notable threadFlame warCheating and hacked setups on Papyrus's Hawaii online service
Players complained of cheating on Papyrus's Hawaii online racing prototype, such as impossible qualifying speeds at Talladega. A major dispute arose when IVGA member Julian Data defended using hex-edited setups, such as altered rear camber and tiny fuel loads, as a legitimate 'grey area'. Most posters called this cheating, and David Sparks noted that Papyrus was quietly collecting information on cheating methods during the test.
Automated summary.
I've been racing on Hawaii for a few months now and we all know that
there is cheating going on. Admitted by Papyrus. With all the time a
serious player spends working on good set-ups I think its time that
Payrus shuts the door on all cheaters. When you see some of the
speeds that people get qualifying on cold tires it's obvious that
their not even trying to hide fact that their cheating.
I know most people don't cheat but the few that do sure take the fun
out of it for the majority.
-POPS-
Quoted text (11 lines)
>I've been racing on Hawaii for a few months now and we all know that >there is cheating going on. Admitted by Papyrus. With all the time a >serious player spends working on good set-ups I think its time that >Payrus shuts the door on all cheaters. When you see some of the >speeds that people get qualifying on cold tires it's obvious that >their not even trying to hide fact that their cheating. >I know most people don't cheat but the few that do sure take the fun >out of it for the majority. > -POPS-Cheating on Hawaii huh well I have been accussed of cheating On hawaii
because of my times at Mich and Dega by people on hawaii because I Qual. at
198.1 to 198.2 at Dega and 193 to 194 at Mich.But I have to say yeas some
guys cheat at dega to get there times of 198.3 and above but as of the
other tracks I don't know how anyone can cheat at other tracks.What all the
guys I know do to get there times at the tracks are kinda like I do at Mich
it is fast for one lap and one lap only for qual. and after that it is ***
and they run a different setup in the race that runs fast aswell.All I can
say is quit worrying about if someone is cheating and find your own speed
because Dega is the only track you can cheat at in qual.And that doesn't
help in the race.
Robert GT86
Quoted text (18 lines)
> > Cheating on Hawaii huh well I have been accussed of cheating On hawaii > > because of my times at Mich and Dega by people on hawaii because I Qual. at > > 198.1 to 198.2 at Dega and 193 to 194 at Mich.But I have to say yeas some > > guys cheat at dega to get there times of 198.3 and above but as of the > > other tracks I don't know how anyone can cheat at other tracks.What all the > > guys I know do to get there times at the tracks are kinda like I do at Mich > > it is fast for one lap and one lap only for qual. and after that it is *** > > and they run a different setup in the race that runs fast aswell.All I can > > say is quit worrying about if someone is cheating and find your own speed > > because Dega is the only track you can cheat at in qual.And that doesn't > > help in the race. > > Robert GT86 > This guy admits to cheating at Tally? How lame! To excel above others > in competition by your own merits gives the satisfaction. You must > really feel like a loser when the rest of us out drive you in the race! > Just my $.02Quoted text (13 lines)
> Cheating on Hawaii huh well I have been accussed of cheating On hawaii > because of my times at Mich and Dega by people on hawaii because I Qual. at > 198.1 to 198.2 at Dega and 193 to 194 at Mich.But I have to say yeas some > guys cheat at dega to get there times of 198.3 and above but as of the > other tracks I don't know how anyone can cheat at other tracks.What all the > guys I know do to get there times at the tracks are kinda like I do at Mich > it is fast for one lap and one lap only for qual. and after that it is *** > and they run a different setup in the race that runs fast aswell.All I can > say is quit worrying about if someone is cheating and find your own speed > because Dega is the only track you can cheat at in qual.And that doesn't > help in the race. > Robert GT86: there is cheating going on. Admitted by Papyrus. With all the time a
: serious player spends working on good set-ups I think its time that
: Payrus shuts the door on all cheaters. When you see some of the
: speeds that people get qualifying on cold tires it's obvious that
: their not even trying to hide fact that their cheating.
Aren't you the arrogant one. Just because you can't turn near the speed
that the fastest guys can, they MUST be cheating, eh.
You obviously know nothing about making qual setups if you think cold
tires means you can't go fast. That's your problem.
I have a few Hawaii records (for now ;) and am in the top 10 qual
records on just about every track, and NOT ONE of those speeds are the
result of cheating. I don't go out specifically trying to break records
either, it is just a nice bonus when trying to get pole in one of my
series races.
Just about every hawaii qual record was done w/o cheating.
Maybe *every* record was done w/o cheating, I cant be 100% sure of that
though.
You cry 'cheat' but do you even have a clue on what the cheating is?
Probably not.
The way people can cheat on a qual lap is by 2-lapping the qual. It is
VERY obvious if someone 2-laps because once you're done and go the the
STANDINGS page, they will take alot longer (for that extra lap).
For this reason, every time I qualify, I go out IMMEDIATELY so my name
and time is one of the first up there and everyone knows I am not
2-lapping to do my top (and sometimes record) quals. I have accidentally
done a 2 lap qual a few times, but I have never used the 2nd lap.
Now that you know what the cheat is, you can check for it. But, I have no
intention of telling anyone how to do a 2-lap because its unfair and
nobody should do it.
Next time, instead of being jerk with a blanket accusation you should
ask questions and understand.
Later,
Darrel Cherry
Hawaii ID: Darrel
NASCAR web page: http://www.***highway.net/~darrel/nascar.htm
Quoted text (41 lines)
>: there is cheating going on. Admitted by Papyrus. With all the time a >: serious player spends working on good set-ups I think its time that >: Payrus shuts the door on all cheaters. When you see some of the >: speeds that people get qualifying on cold tires it's obvious that >: their not even trying to hide fact that their cheating. >Aren't you the arrogant one. Just because you can't turn near the speed >that the fastest guys can, they MUST be cheating, eh. >You obviously know nothing about making qual setups if you think cold >tires means you can't go fast. That's your problem. >I have a few Hawaii records (for now ;) and am in the top 10 qual >records on just about every track, and NOT ONE of those speeds are the >result of cheating. I don't go out specifically trying to break records >either, it is just a nice bonus when trying to get pole in one of my >series races. >Just about every hawaii qual record was done w/o cheating. >Maybe *every* record was done w/o cheating, I cant be 100% sure of that >though. >You cry 'cheat' but do you even have a clue on what the cheating is? >Probably not. >The way people can cheat on a qual lap is by 2-lapping the qual. It is >VERY obvious if someone 2-laps because once you're done and go the the >STANDINGS page, they will take alot longer (for that extra lap). >For this reason, every time I qualify, I go out IMMEDIATELY so my name >and time is one of the first up there and everyone knows I am not >2-lapping to do my top (and sometimes record) quals. I have accidentally >done a 2 lap qual a few times, but I have never used the 2nd lap. >Now that you know what the cheat is, you can check for it. But, I have no >intention of telling anyone how to do a 2-lap because its unfair and >nobody should do it. >Next time, instead of being jerk with a blanket accusation you should >ask questions and understand. >Later, > Darrel Cherry > Hawaii ID: Darrel > NASCAR web page: http://www.***highway.net/~darrel/nascar.htmWhile we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with
odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar
program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary
editor. Is this cheating??????
Viper
: >: Payrus shuts the door on all cheaters. When you see some of the
: >: speeds that people get qualifying on cold tires it's obvious that
: >: their not even trying to hide fact that their cheating.
: Talk about arrogant I never accused anyone by name of
: cheating. The fact is I don't even know who you are, but you sure
: Darrel I never made a blanket accusation in fact I accused no
The statement you made is a blanket accusation of anyone who is fast.
Saying that "from the speeds people turn with cold tires it is obvious
they're not trying to hide the fact they're cheating" makes the statement,
if you qual fast, you cheat.
: You seem to be taking the topic of cheating very personal.
Sure, I detest cheating and it pisses me off when someone makes an
uninformed generalization like you did.
: There is cheating going on and Payprus admitted as much so I
: guess they must be arrogant to.
Making a statement that people cheat and a statement that from the fast
times people turn with cold tires, they must be cheating are two
completely different statements.
Also, from what I've heard on the grapevine, Papyrus knows who is
cheating and does take action.
C-ya,
Darrel
:While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with
:odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar
:program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary
:editor. Is this cheating??????
:
:Viper
No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal),
tire psi..
No it's not illegal.. I do it..
take care
:
Darrel
I must disagree with you atleast for one track that is Dega the record
times at Dega are cheating times I have found on my own and from some of
the guys that cheat that a Qyal. time of 198.3 at Dega at 120 degrees is
impossibleand when you Lokk at the record time it's like 200 or 201 with
alot of 199's and 198.8's and so on.I will say I am one of the fastest in
qual at the speedways and I don't cheat.I have found or looked or heard of
anyway of cheating at any track but Dega and that is cutting the pits.My
fastest no wind speed at Dega is 198.211 os something I can see times in
the 198.2 range are possible but 198.3 and higher are not but I have tried
two lapping at some other tracks once or twice and it doesn't work yeah you
get a faster time but you still qual in the same spot as the first lap had
you at.I am not the fastest at qual at alot of the tracks but fast enough
in qual to start in top 5 everytime.Like atl my speed is 187 to 188.Mich is
193 to 194 char is 183 to 185 and darl is 181 to 182.Which is fast enough
to give me a good shot at running well and maybe winning.I have no need to
cheat and have no desire to cheat like yourself.The times are all in setups
and manilly lines.But Dega does have alot of cheaters which I know who and
won't say who because I consider them racing friends and if they feel they
need to cheat to qual upfront so be it I'll just beat them in the race :)
because the cheat doesn't work in the race.
Robert
Hawaii ID: GT86
Quoted text (41 lines)
> : there is cheating going on. Admitted by Papyrus. With all the time a > : serious player spends working on good set-ups I think its time that > : Payrus shuts the door on all cheaters. When you see some of the > : speeds that people get qualifying on cold tires it's obvious that > : their not even trying to hide fact that their cheating. > Aren't you the arrogant one. Just because you can't turn near the speed > that the fastest guys can, they MUST be cheating, eh. > You obviously know nothing about making qual setups if you think cold > tires means you can't go fast. That's your problem. > I have a few Hawaii records (for now ;) and am in the top 10 qual > records on just about every track, and NOT ONE of those speeds are the > result of cheating. I don't go out specifically trying to break records > either, it is just a nice bonus when trying to get pole in one of my > series races. > Just about every hawaii qual record was done w/o cheating. > Maybe *every* record was done w/o cheating, I cant be 100% sure of that > though. > You cry 'cheat' but do you even have a clue on what the cheating is? > Probably not. > The way people can cheat on a qual lap is by 2-lapping the qual. It is > VERY obvious if someone 2-laps because once you're done and go the the > STANDINGS page, they will take alot longer (for that extra lap). > For this reason, every time I qualify, I go out IMMEDIATELY so my name > and time is one of the first up there and everyone knows I am not > 2-lapping to do my top (and sometimes record) quals. I have accidentally > done a 2 lap qual a few times, but I have never used the 2nd lap. > Now that you know what the cheat is, you can check for it. But, I have no > intention of telling anyone how to do a 2-lap because its unfair and > nobody should do it. > Next time, instead of being jerk with a blanket accusation you should > ask questions and understand. > Later, > Darrel Cherry > Hawaii ID: Darrel > NASCAR web page: http://www.***highway.net/~darrel/nascar.htmI have one question how do you setup rear camber?
Robert
7 gal),
Quoted text (8 lines)
> :While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with > :odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar > :program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary > :editor. Is this cheating?????? > : > :Viper > No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e.Quoted text (7 lines)
> tire psi.. > No it's not illegal.. I do it.. > take care > :Quoted text (17 lines)
>:While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with >:odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar >:program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary >:editor. Is this cheating?????? >: >:Viper >No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), >tire psi.. >No it's not illegal.. I do it.. >take care >:I don't run Hawaii so I don't know about the cheating, but it seems to be
that if accusations have been made, that Papyrus made a pretty good racing
network. Sounds an aweful lot like real Nascar to me. Maybe you should
check to see if they have movable parts inside the intake manifold or an
altered roof line?
Quoted text (13 lines)
>:While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with >:odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar >:program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary >:editor. Is this cheating?????? >: >:Viper >No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), >tire psi.. >No it's not illegal.. I do it.. >take careHave had 198.5s at Dega without cheating.
Viper
Quoted text (15 lines)
> :While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with > :odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar > :program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary > :editor. Is this cheating?????? > : > :Viper > No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), > tire psi.. > No it's not illegal.. I do it.. > take care > ::>No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal),
:>tire psi..
:>
:>No it's not illegal.. I do it..
:>
:>take care
:>
:Hmmmm....... could we get an official Papyrus opinion on this???? If
:its not illegal I'm gonna feel real ignorant for not doing it.
:
:Viper
:
In the "real" racing world..this would be called the "gray" area..
Hehehe.. I always look at the rules..and read between the lines.. I am not a
cheater. Look at the WC teams..All do alot of "gray" area adjustments or make
something in the "between lines" text..
take care
Quoted text (19 lines)
>:>No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), >:>tire psi.. >:> >:>No it's not illegal.. I do it.. >:> >:>take care >:> >:Hmmmm....... could we get an official Papyrus opinion on this???? If >:its not illegal I'm gonna feel real ignorant for not doing it. >: >:Viper >: >In the "real" racing world..this would be called the "gray" area.. >Hehehe.. I always look at the rules..and read between the lines.. I am not a >cheater. Look at the WC teams..All do alot of "gray" area adjustments or make >something in the "between lines" text.. >take careQuoted text (25 lines)
>> :While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with >> :odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar >> :program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary >> :editor. Is this cheating?????? >> : >> :Viper >> No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), >> tire psi.. >> No it's not illegal.. I do it.. >> take care >> : >I'd say using any editor other than what the game provides IS CHEATING. >The game provides you with a set of rules about how you can setup the >car. By using a outside editor you are breaking those rules and getting >an unfair advantage. Obviously anyone who does this is not confident >enough in their own driving skills to use what is provided. >You are fooling yourself and hurting the integrity of Hawaii by doing >this.Quoted text (28 lines)
>>> :While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with >>> :odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar >>> :program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary >>> :editor. Is this cheating?????? >>> : >>> :Viper >>> No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), >>> tire psi.. >>> No it's not illegal.. I do it.. >>> take care >>> : >>I'd say using any editor other than what the game provides IS CHEATING. >Thats kinda how I saw it. >Could Hawaii just make an official statement on this? Just to clarify >for everyone whether they are or are not cheating. >If changing the camber and fuel is ok how about a rear spoiler of 0 >and soft tires all the way around? I dont know if it would work but >if its not cheating I'll just have to give it a try! :) >ViperDarrel, there is cheating going on in Hawaii! And there are many forms
being used! Whether you do it by running in a racing group that records your best
times and when you post them, it also uploads your settings that it used to achieve
them and then spread it to your friends! Or you use an editor to hack files that
aren't checked, or you are a networking specialist and hack packet sizes to alter
the way you send info back and forth, or you write batch files, or you run double
qualifying laps and so on! Yes, these things happen but those of us that choose not
to participate in such can take pride if we do a setup on our own with no help from
anyone. I'm entering my 12th month on the system and have seen and learned much over
that period of time. It is my understanding that the problems I have mentioned are
and will be addressed in NRL. Hopefully, for those of us that play by the rules
a level playing field will be established. Winning at all cost seems to be the motto
of some and they will do what it takes!
Pete
Quoted text (25 lines)
> > :While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with > > :odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar > > :program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary > > :editor. Is this cheating?????? > > : > > :Viper > > No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), > > tire psi.. > > No it's not illegal.. I do it.. > > take care > > : > I'd say using any editor other than what the game provides IS CHEATING. > The game provides you with a set of rules about how you can setup the > car. By using a outside editor you are breaking those rules and getting > an unfair advantage. Obviously anyone who does this is not confident > enough in their own driving skills to use what is provided. > You are fooling yourself and hurting the integrity of Hawaii by doing > this.:I'd say using any editor other than what the game provides IS CHEATING.
:
:The game provides you with a set of rules about how you can setup the
:car. By using a outside editor you are breaking those rules and getting
:an unfair advantage. Obviously anyone who does this is not confident
:enough in their own driving skills to use what is provided.
I can't drive?? Are you saying that?? How you and I, one on one?? I am currently
the Number 1 driver in the Fastlap Program from the IVGA.. And that's using the
defautl parameters given by the game..No rear camber adjustments of any kind..
Anything length race..I have a setup for any length.. I have been at this sim
since it came out.. So I can say I have alot of experience with it.; )
The sim simply bores me.. now.. I feel that I have conquered it.. I have over
200 modem races.. A few times on Hawaii as under another nick..Hehe..
I believe the people that are cheating are the ones using a tsr
program..anyways.. Think about that.. That's more like cheating..
:
:You are fooling yourself and hurting the integrity of Hawaii by doing
:this.
I am not fooling myself.. Just using my wits to get more speed.. I am "real"
racer, I actually do this for living..; ) There are setup programs are there
that do it for you!!! Just look around..
Well take care..
:
:I'd say using any editor other than what the game provides IS CHEATING.
:
:The game provides you with a set of rules about how you can setup the
:car. By using a outside editor you are breaking those rules and getting
:an unfair advantage. Obviously anyone who does this is not confident
:enough in their own driving skills to use what is provided.
:
:You are fooling yourself and hurting the integrity of Hawaii by doing
:this.
Have you ever done "any real" racing before?? The rules on Hawaii does not state
anything about it.. So it's perfectly legal..
take care
Quoted text (9 lines)
> I can't drive?? Are you saying that?? How you and I, one on one?? I am currently > the Number 1 driver in the Fastlap Program from the IVGA.. And that's using the > defautl parameters given by the game..No rear camber adjustments of any kind.. > I am not fooling myself.. Just using my wits to get more speed.. I am "real" > racer, I actually do this for living..; ) There are setup programs are there > that do it for you!!! Just look around.. > Well take care..Are you really Rusty Wallace? Sounds like him... :-)
Hopefully, they are too busy getting NascarII ready to bother with it. At
least I hope so.
As to the person who thinks that just because they didn't say, in writing,
that you were not allowed to modify the setups with a sector editor, or
whatever, that it is legal, get real. If it were legal, you could make the
adjustments in the Nascar editor. That is where they set the limits of
what you could and could not do. Any other modification is cheating.
Stick to the provided editor, or just stick it.
Quoted text (14 lines)
>Darrel, there is cheating going on in Hawaii! And there are many forms >being used! Whether you do it by running in a racing group that records your best >times and when you post them, it also uploads your settings that it used to achieve >them and then spread it to your friends! Or you use an editor to hack files that >aren't checked, or you are a networking specialist and hack packet sizes to alter >the way you send info back and forth, or you write batch files, or you run double >qualifying laps and so on! Yes, these things happen but those of us that choose not >to participate in such can take pride if we do a setup on our own with no help from >anyone. I'm entering my 12th month on the system and have seen and learned much over >that period of time. It is my understanding that the problems I have mentioned are >and will be addressed in NRL. Hopefully, for those of us that play by the rules >a level playing field will be established. Winning at all cost seems to be the motto >of some and they will do what it takes! >PeteQuoted text (15 lines)
> Darrel, there is cheating going on in Hawaii! And there are many forms > being used! Whether you do it by running in a racing group that records your best > times and when you post them, it also uploads your settings that it used to achieve > them and then spread it to your friends! Or you use an editor to hack files that > aren't checked, or you are a networking specialist and hack packet sizes to alter > the way you send info back and forth, or you write batch files, or you run double > qualifying laps and so on! Yes, these things happen but those of us that choose not > to participate in such can take pride if we do a setup on our own with no help from > anyone. I'm entering my 12th month on the system and have seen and learned much over > that period of time. It is my understanding that the problems I have mentioned are > and will be addressed in NRL. Hopefully, for those of us that play by the rules > a level playing field will be established. Winning at all cost seems to be the motto > of some and they will do what it takes! > Peteshooting through ***space:
Your admission that you cheat -- oh, I'm sorry, use the grey area --
will drastically reduce the amount of people willing to race with you.
I have a question -- are you so frightened that you can't hack it
(pardon the pun) on a level playing field that you feel it necessary
to artificially enhance your advantage? I'm not criticizing here,
just curious. I'd be interested to see how good you are using static
setups and (gasp!) unmodified track or setup files.
--
SimRacing Online Webmaster
http://www.simracing.com/
Hawaii: IWCCCARS
Quoted text (19 lines)
> :>No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), > :>tire psi.. > :> > :>No it's not illegal.. I do it.. > :> > :>take care > :> > :Hmmmm....... could we get an official Papyrus opinion on this???? If > :its not illegal I'm gonna feel real ignorant for not doing it. > : > :Viper > : > In the "real" racing world..this would be called the "gray" area.. > Hehehe.. I always look at the rules..and read between the lines.. I am not a > cheater. Look at the WC teams..All do alot of "gray" area adjustments or make > something in the "between lines" text.. > take careQuoted text (34 lines)
>> > :While we're on the topic, the other day I downloaded some setups with >> > :odd settings that are not available through the Hawaii or Nascar >> > :program. My assumption is that the setup was made with a secondary >> > :editor. Is this cheating?????? >> > : >> > :Viper >> > No, it's not!! Let me guess.. rear camber was adjusted, low fuel ( i.e. .7 gal), >> > tire psi.. >> > No it's not illegal.. I do it.. >> > take care >> > : >> I'd say using any editor other than what the game provides IS CHEATING. >> The game provides you with a set of rules about how you can setup the >> car. By using a outside editor you are breaking those rules and getting >> an unfair advantage. Obviously anyone who does this is not confident >> enough in their own driving skills to use what is provided. >> You are fooling yourself and hurting the integrity of Hawaii by doing >> this. > I didn't know there were such setups until these posts came out. I sent >their game so let them decide. They said that the .7gal is borderline >cheating because it takes special knowledge to do? But that messing with the >rear camber was definitely cheating. They asked me to send them one of these >setups to test out but I don't have any- darn it. > KenJulian, after speaking with you I am convinced you are a very talented racer
and obviously a setup man par excellance. The fast times being logged by many
racers on MP are a result of your driving and setup skills and the info being
passed on to them. The only thing that bothers me is that some who have
achieved exalted status on MP aren't worthy of it. I know you have helped many
who have asked you and probably recieved little thanks. Unfortunately, it has
created an elite group who obviously using your talents for their own glory!
I also think you may be baiting people a little into thinking you are cheating
more than you really are. I know how many of the cheats are applied, you do
as well. Its my feeling that you are fast enough that you don't need to cheat.
My appologies for accusing you or any group of cheating! Its too bad though
you might not get recognized for your abilites and others not so talented will!
Regards Pete
:>
:> I am not fooling myself.. Just using my wits to get more speed.. I am
:"real"
:> racer, I actually do this for living..; ) There are setup programs are
:there
:> that do it for you!!! Just look around..
:>
:
:Are you really Rusty Wallace? Sounds like him... :-)
:
Actually no.. I am not Rusty.. He's alright though; )
take care
:
Julian Data
IVGA Member #0004
Director of Information Technology
ACE Beta Tester and Driver of IVGA
Channel Operator of #ivga on IRC (Undernet)
Powered by IVGA Pro Gamer System P6-200 oc 233, 96MB EDO
: Darrel, there is cheating going on in Hawaii! And there are many forms
Pete et al,
I guess you misunderstood my point. I'll try to restate it clearer:
There are people on Hawaii that do cheat, whether it be 2-lapping, using
a tsr program, etc.
The problem is, since there is cheating going on, many people, such as
one of the original posters and a few followups, wrongly assume that
everyone running super fast times (4-5mph faster than they are after
they have spent countless hours on their setups) must be cheating.
And, to compound this myth, they don't know the specifics of the cheating,
so they assume the worst and think the only indicator that people are
cheating is the fact that they are fast. This creates a tremendous
fallacy that fast = cheat, and/or fastest = cheat.
I am also saying that I know alot of guys turning super fast and
record speeds, and they are very good racers. I respect them, and
I'm 99.9% positive they do not cheat (I'm not at their house watching
them so I can't say 100%).
Dega I have no clue about, I don't race there (only had 10 starts total
from when I first started Hawaii), so my statements don't apply there.
I'm just trying to quench the flames of the "I can't believe how fast
these guys are going so they must be cheating" fire that will obviously
blaze bigger the longer this goes unaddressed.
Most guys turning 194-6 at MIS, 188-90 at Atl, 127-8 at Richmond,
154-5 at Rock, 186-7 at CMS, 100-1 at Marty, etc, etc. are
doing it legitimately, with the same program, files, and opportunity
as Joe Average Racer. There might be a few stragglers in there
who are cheating to achieve these type of speeds, but the vast
majority are not cheating whatsoever.
Setting up a car has seemingly endless permutations. One wrong turn
can really***you and make your speed plateau too early. You can
spend 5 hours or 500 hours on a setup and achieve the same end result.
Experience is key. I've spent hundreds of hours at MIS and Atlanta
figuring out what make setups tick. Then I talk to friends, discuss
some setup theory, and play around some more. After learning there, I
was able to apply what I've learned with some theory and crank out some
very fast setups for other tracks like Richmond, N. Wilkes, Pocono, and
Phoenix in a matter of a 5-10 hours per track.
And, I'm still learning all the time!! Speeds have not settled. One thing
I learned from racing ICR1 series', just when you think a record is
pretty much etched in stone, it will be beaten! In another month or so,
I bet you'll see legitimate 197s at MIS =8-o!
This is the truth; unfortunately, some people still won't believe it
because they cant go that fast. Oh well, such is life.
C-ya,
Darrel
Hawaii ID: Darrel
web: http://www.***highway.net/~darrel/nascar.htm
Amen.. Darrell!!!; ) I commend you excellent post..
take care
Julian Data
IVGA Member #0004
Director of Information Technology
ACE Beta Tester and Driver of IVGA
Channel Operator of #ivga on IRC (Undernet)
Powered by IVGA Pro Gamer System P6-200 oc 233, 96MB EDO
<SNIP>
Darrel,
While I basically agree with what you said, the problem is not with
individuals who have spent the time and energy to go fast. People who
have spent hours going in circles to change a percentage point in the
right front shock, then spend another hour doing it again, deserve to
go fast, and will.
My beef with the "grey area" drivers, is when an individual uses
anything other than Nascar's garage to modify the car setup. If your
modifying the rear cambers, tire compounds, packets, etc. you are
doing something that wasn't intended, or allowed by Papyrus. They
have expressly forbid that kind of activity, and the individuals who
are doing it, are cheating. The "grey area" is just a pretty word for
cheating, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's a shame to, because
a lot of guys who would be considered the best, are considered idiots
because they just can't do it honestly, and have to do it the only way
they can, through hacking.
The worst thing about this, is depending on how you look at it, is
that it really threatens the integrity of the Hawaii system. How many
of you guys are willing to run pick-up races or open league races when
you're constantly thinking the guy in front is cheating? How long
will you continue to pay LD bills, or pay for the NRL when it comes
out, if anyone with any programming knowledge and an editor can make
himself king?
It's gotten to the point with me to where I only run my leagues, where
I can be fairly sure of the honesty of the drivers. If it wasn't for
that, I probably would have been long gone off the system by now.
That's a shame, because I really love racing, and this is one heck of
a way to play "driver for a day" :).
--
Hawaii Ace League - http://www.dithots.org/hal/welcome.shtml
Closed Beta Tester Hawaii Network - bsimpson online
"It's Always Darkest before it goes totally Black"
Quoted text (8 lines)
> This is the truth; unfortunately, some people still won't believe it >because they cant go that fast. Oh well, such is life. >C-ya, > Darrel >Hawaii ID: Darrel >web: http://www.***highway.net/~darrel/nascar.htmDarrel, I don't disagree with most of what you have said but with speed comes
the penalty of tire wear and gas mileage! Legit racers can run the speeds
you mention and I have a few tracks that I can get the big numbers on
as well, but!!!! You don't run the same speeds on your last gallon of
22 that you did earlier in the race and then pit only to add gas and then keep
going. With no tire wear! I have seen guys post real big numbers only to
come back to the field as the tires wear down and in some cases in long
green flag racing get beat because of the abuse on tires. But I have witnessed
the first scenario on occasion as well, but many of those doing the
cheating use it selectively as required. If I can figure out these hacks
and so called grey areas, many more talented then I can also do it!
Speed doesn't equal cheating! But when your tires never wear out
and you have big speed, guess what! Cheating!
Pete
Quoted text (53 lines)
> : Darrel, there is cheating going on in Hawaii! And there are many forms > Pete et al, > I guess you misunderstood my point. I'll try to restate it clearer: > There are people on Hawaii that do cheat, whether it be 2-lapping, using > a tsr program, etc. > The problem is, since there is cheating going on, many people, such as > one of the original posters and a few followups, wrongly assume that > everyone running super fast times (4-5mph faster than they are after > they have spent countless hours on their setups) must be cheating. > And, to compound this myth, they don't know the specifics of the cheating, > so they assume the worst and think the only indicator that people are > cheating is the fact that they are fast. This creates a tremendous > fallacy that fast = cheat, and/or fastest = cheat. > I am also saying that I know alot of guys turning super fast and > record speeds, and they are very good racers. I respect them, and > I'm 99.9% positive they do not cheat (I'm not at their house watching > them so I can't say 100%). > Dega I have no clue about, I don't race there (only had 10 starts total > from when I first started Hawaii), so my statements don't apply there. > I'm just trying to quench the flames of the "I can't believe how fast > these guys are going so they must be cheating" fire that will obviously > blaze bigger the longer this goes unaddressed. > Most guys turning 194-6 at MIS, 188-90 at Atl, 127-8 at Richmond, > 154-5 at Rock, 186-7 at CMS, 100-1 at Marty, etc, etc. are > doing it legitimately, with the same program, files, and opportunity > as Joe Average Racer. There might be a few stragglers in there > who are cheating to achieve these type of speeds, but the vast > majority are not cheating whatsoever. > Setting up a car has seemingly endless permutations. One wrong turn > can really***you and make your speed plateau too early. You can > spend 5 hours or 500 hours on a setup and achieve the same end result. > Experience is key. I've spent hundreds of hours at MIS and Atlanta > figuring out what make setups tick. Then I talk to friends, discuss > some setup theory, and play around some more. After learning there, I > was able to apply what I've learned with some theory and crank out some > very fast setups for other tracks like Richmond, N. Wilkes, Pocono, and > Phoenix in a matter of a 5-10 hours per track. > And, I'm still learning all the time!! Speeds have not settled. One thing > I learned from racing ICR1 series', just when you think a record is > pretty much etched in stone, it will be beaten! In another month or so, > I bet you'll see legitimate 197s at MIS =8-o! > This is the truth; unfortunately, some people still won't believe it > because they cant go that fast. Oh well, such is life.Quoted text (60 lines)
> > Have you ever done "any real" racing before?? The rules on Hawaii does not state > > anything about it.. So it's perfectly legal.. > > take care > Soooo Mr. Data, let me see if I understand this reasoning of yours > now.....Say I invite you to my house to watch the race, and have a couple > beers, and some conversation. On the kitchen table lies my wallet, with > two crisp 20 dollar bills sticking out for all to see. You look around > and notice that there ISNT a sign that says "please dont steal from your > host" So you flip open the wallet and remove the cash, and smile on your > way back from the bathroom, because you did nothing wrong (in your mind > at least). > Do you really think that you are participating in acceptable > behaviour here? How many times you think I'll invite you to my house if > its gonna cost me 40 bucks every time you come over????? > I personally dont give a rip how fast you are Mr. Data, because the > thing that concerns me here is your attitude..."it's ok to do it, if no > one is looking". I sure as hell wouldnt want to race with you in a league > environment, and you obviously dont understand that the reason that alot > of us, if not most of us, are here, is for the journey, not the > destination. What fun can it be for you, or some of the other "fast" guys > I see around, to be 4 to 5 miles an hour faster than everybody else? I > would think without any competition on the track, to hold your interest, > that the racing would get quite boring, quite quickly. I realize you dont > need my pity, but I still feel sorry for you, and your kind, who have to > disect things until the fun is gone, and the challenge consists of > another hollow victory on the track. > Ford Motor Company's QS 9000 program says that I "cant say it, if I > cant prove it" and by golly...I guess ya got me there too, cause I have > no idea how to work the "grey areas". I've been more interested in the > door to door racing that typifies NASCAR, since I signed on to HAWAII > awhile back, then in trying to get a leg up on the competition by hook or > crook. Ooooops, I mean working the gray areas. > I apologise to others who've had enough of this thread, but I could > stand it no longer. I HAD to put in my two cents worth. My feeling is > "if ya cant play nice than go on home". What possible satisfaction could > anyone (with any self-worth at all), get from cheating or hacking their > way to a victory???. I'll certainly listen to any justifications you guys > attempt to come up with, for what you do, but you'll also have to excuse > me if I have a good laugh at yer expense. It's kinda sad really, this is > exactly the kind of behaviour that I'm trying to NOT instill in my > children....I feel like I'm swimming upstream about now. > c ya at the track, > tom > _______________________________________________________________________ > | | > | HAWAII resident since 9-18-95 / on-line handle: TCEckels | > | 3RD COAST RACING runs in: Hawaii Ace League / Hawaii Cup Series | > | Night Hawks League / Night Owls Series | > | COAST2COAST RACING w/ Ken Hower runs in: Late Night With Dave Series | > |_______________________________________________________________________|Quoted text (64 lines)
> > > Have you ever done "any real" racing before?? The rules on Hawaii does not state > > > anything about it.. So it's perfectly legal.. > > > take care > > Soooo Mr. Data, let me see if I understand this reasoning of yours > > now.....Say I invite you to my house to watch the race, and have a couple > > beers, and some conversation. On the kitchen table lies my wallet, with > > two crisp 20 dollar bills sticking out for all to see. You look around > > and notice that there ISNT a sign that says "please dont steal from your > > host" So you flip open the wallet and remove the cash, and smile on your > > way back from the bathroom, because you did nothing wrong (in your mind > > at least). > > Do you really think that you are participating in acceptable > > behaviour here? How many times you think I'll invite you to my house if > > its gonna cost me 40 bucks every time you come over????? > > I personally dont give a rip how fast you are Mr. Data, because the > > thing that concerns me here is your attitude..."it's ok to do it, if no > > one is looking". I sure as hell wouldnt want to race with you in a league > > environment, and you obviously dont understand that the reason that alot > > of us, if not most of us, are here, is for the journey, not the > > destination. What fun can it be for you, or some of the other "fast" guys > > I see around, to be 4 to 5 miles an hour faster than everybody else? I > > would think without any competition on the track, to hold your interest, > > that the racing would get quite boring, quite quickly. I realize you dont > > need my pity, but I still feel sorry for you, and your kind, who have to > > disect things until the fun is gone, and the challenge consists of > > another hollow victory on the track. > > Ford Motor Company's QS 9000 program says that I "cant say it, if I > > cant prove it" and by golly...I guess ya got me there too, cause I have > > no idea how to work the "grey areas". I've been more interested in the > > door to door racing that typifies NASCAR, since I signed on to HAWAII > > awhile back, then in trying to get a leg up on the competition by hook or > > crook. Ooooops, I mean working the gray areas. > > I apologise to others who've had enough of this thread, but I could > > stand it no longer. I HAD to put in my two cents worth. My feeling is > > "if ya cant play nice than go on home". What possible satisfaction could > > anyone (with any self-worth at all), get from cheating or hacking their > > way to a victory???. I'll certainly listen to any justifications you guys > > attempt to come up with, for what you do, but you'll also have to excuse > > me if I have a good laugh at yer expense. It's kinda sad really, this is > > exactly the kind of behaviour that I'm trying to NOT instill in my > > children....I feel like I'm swimming upstream about now. > > c ya at the track, > > tom > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > | | > > | HAWAII resident since 9-18-95 / on-line handle: TCEckels | > > | 3RD COAST RACING runs in: Hawaii Ace League / Hawaii Cup Series | > > | Night Hawks League / Night Owls Series | > > | COAST2COAST RACING w/ Ken Hower runs in: Late Night With Dave Series | > > |_______________________________________________________________________| > Well put Tom. I couldn't agree more. > Mick in TampaQuoted text (15 lines)
> Darrel, I don't disagree with most of what you have said but with speed comes > the penalty of tire wear and gas mileage! Legit racers can run the speeds > you mention and I have a few tracks that I can get the big numbers on > as well, but!!!! You don't run the same speeds on your last gallon of > 22 that you did earlier in the race and then pit only to add gas and then keep > going. With no tire wear! I have seen guys post real big numbers only to > come back to the field as the tires wear down and in some cases in long > green flag racing get beat because of the abuse on tires. But I have witnessed > the first scenario on occasion as well, but many of those doing the > cheating use it selectively as required. If I can figure out these hacks > and so called grey areas, many more talented then I can also do it! > Speed doesn't equal cheating! But when your tires never wear out > and you have big speed, guess what! Cheating! > PeteAll..
So know all you have judged me as a cheater?? First of all, where are the
rules??
Before you even left your finger on that keyboard, just hear me out, cool??
Some of you just race for the fun of it, while others take it seriously!! This
sim pretty real when it comes to MP. We now hear all the controversies over this
setup options dilema. But there has always been controversies towards the "fast"
guys on these sims!! The "other" drivers always ***ed and moaned about the
"fast" drivers, being fast. I know some of them, they worked their but off as
did I!!! You don't get to be fast overnight. It takes alot of time to do it, to
get the recognition that you want.
I know some of you don't give a hoot about running fast, so just but out of it,
since it doesn't cocern you at all!! It shouldn't bother you at all then.
A little history first..
Before there was Hawaii (MP), there was IVGA's FASTLAP program and their
assorted software. Alot of people did the program to see where they would rank
themselves in the WORLD! Some of the others wanted to be "Number 1". This
program taught me alot about setting up car for two laps. In the past two
months, I have moved up the charts quickly. Then soon taking my spot as being
the "World's FASTEST driver for NASCAR". NONE of those "extra" setup options
back then, TONY JOHNS!!
As I was moving up the charts, Don Wilshe, wanted me to a part of the IVGA,
because of my accomplishments in that short time. I also put my input and tested
out the software there is now. I am not a programmer at all. I just find the
bugs or glitches in the software for the IVGA.
Now listen, STOP the rumors about the IVGA software!! The IVGA software does NOT
save your setup nor save a replay from your laps you have turned!! Do you
realize how big that file would be?? 97k to be precise..plus the 128bytes setup
file!!
Back in February....
When I got burned out on Nascar, I decided to try out ICR2. I like the feel of
the car better in ICR2 than NASCAR. Then I noticed the setup options in ICR2, I
was wondering if it would work with NASCAR. So with "new" life into NASCAR, I
tried my theories with a hex editor. Now, was to find out if it worked or not on
the track. Remember, ICR2 and Nascar basically have the "same" physics engine!!
I told Don and several others about my findings. Soon there was a setup program
that had all the features I worked for.
Why the more setup options?? To get faster and more consistant. You see I was
already "burned" out on NASCAR! I was already at a point that I couldn't go any
faster. I have conquered the game is what I was thinking. With these "new" setup
options, it just might work. On to testing..and testing..
If you don't care to go fast, please don't reply or email me, about you don't
care about going fast. If you are replying back, because you think its' cheating
go for it. But I will not reply back..This is really getting pointless..
Since I have reading ras, I have noticed how things get "twisted" in here. All I
was doing telling someone about it. Yes, I admit I do it. But you answer me
this, where are the rules?? How can they check for it??
I think Papy is way over their head for NRL, this is nothing comparing to what
is going to happen on NRL!!
Wake up people. This is really beginning to sound like "real" life motorsports!!
There are some serious people out there!! Remember that!! There is alot of
controversy to who is cheating or not!! Look at the KING, he has been caught
cheating, but people still RESPECT him!!
All the top teams find ways to have that edge. It's called competition. If you
don't like it, then either, watch who want to race with or just stay out of it!
Make sense??
I know that majority of you have never done any "actual" racing experience or
followed any racing series. Just like all sports there are controversy on
cheating. For example, the Chicago wore black shoes and socks, so the referees
would have a hard time seeing the violations!!
The "hub" incident with Jeff Gordon was completely bogus, it really wasn't about
the hub in the first place. It was hidden. He traction control on board!! I have
very reliable sources.
BTW, there are people who do cheat on MP using a TSR program. But now you can no
longer use it!
Also, for those of you that race know what I am taking about "grey areas". It's
just your interpertation of the rules on how YOU see it. If it's not there, then
it's legal. If you get caught, then you are cheater!! Comprende??
Well put Tom.
Perhaps Mr Data can write a program that will steer his car for him, leaving his hands free for other
things.<g>
Good race at C***te the other night. I was Dad.
:
: Soooo Mr. Data, let me see if I understand this reasoning of yours
:now.....Say I invite you to my house to watch the race, and have a couple
:beers, and some conversation. On the kitchen table lies my wallet, with
:two crisp 20 dollar bills sticking out for all to see. You look around
:and notice that there ISNT a sign that says "please dont steal from your
:host" So you flip open the wallet and remove the cash, and smile on your
:way back from the bathroom, because you did nothing wrong (in your mind
:at least).
:
That's an ENTIREL different scenario.. I respect people's houses!! How dare you
judge me!!! Americans are always judgemental!!
: Do you really think that you are participating in acceptable
:behaviour here? How many times you think I'll invite you to my house if
:its gonna cost me 40 bucks every time you come over?????
More on this later...READ My next post..okay..
: I personally dont give a rip how fast you are Mr. Data, because the
:thing that concerns me here is your attitude..."it's ok to do it, if no
:one is looking". I sure as hell wouldnt want to race with you in a league
:environment, and you obviously dont understand that the reason that alot
:of us, if not most of us, are here, is for the journey, not the
:destination.
Read the rules..wait.. WHERE ARE THE RULES???? I guess you have never competed
in your life, eh?? Who cares for you attitude..anyways? Who are you to judge me?
I really don't care if you don't want to race me or not.. Just face it.. THERE
ARE SERIOUS PEOPLE THAT RACE on the SIM. Just like in REAL LIFE!! GET a Clue!!
What fun can it be for you, or some of the other "fast" guys
:I see around, to be 4 to 5 miles an hour faster than everybody else? I
:would think without any competition on the track, to hold your interest,
:that the racing would get quite boring, quite quickly. I realize you dont
:need my pity, but I still feel sorry for you, and your kind, who have to
:disect things until the fun is gone, and the challenge consists of
:another hollow victory on the track.
Pity?? Sheesh.. I am one of "few" fast guys willing to lend out helping hand!! I
want EVERYONE to go fast!! If you don't..I don't mind that..I respect that..
: Ford Motor Company's QS 9000 program says that I "cant say it, if I
:cant prove it" and by golly...I guess ya got me there too, cause I have
:no idea how to work the "grey areas". I've been more interested in the
:door to door racing that typifies NASCAR, since I signed on to HAWAII
:awhile back, then in trying to get a leg up on the competition by hook or
:crook. Ooooops, I mean working the gray areas.
HELLO!!! I have opened up to everyone.. And now I am the target.. Pity, everyone
wants to race, right?? Fairness?? Hmm.. Why don't you look at the history of
MOTORSPORTS. You will SEE that the TOP teams strive to be the BEST they can be.
They are always willing to find an edge.
: I apologise to others who've had enough of this thread, but I could
:stand it no longer. I HAD to put in my two cents worth. My feeling is
:"if ya cant play nice than go on home". What possible satisfaction could
:anyone (with any self-worth at all), get from cheating or hacking their
:way to a victory???. I'll certainly listen to any justifications you guys
:attempt to come up with, for what you do, but you'll also have to excuse
:me if I have a good laugh at yer expense. It's kinda sad really, this is
:exactly the kind of behaviour that I'm trying to NOT instill in my
:children....I feel like I'm swimming upstream about now.
Whoopee.. That's right..BUT.."if you can't handle it..go home.." Behaviour??
Hmm.. Okay..DAD..
: c ya at the track,
If you stop you complaining and ***ing. you might see me there..
Please read my next POST.. This will be my last POST for this subject.
_
WTFE...
writes:
Traction control on the front wheel?? yeah , your source is really
reliable.
Gene
shooting through ***space:
Excuse me -- this is not the issue at stake here. The issue is NOT
the fact that you're fast for two laps -- the issue is that you and
other drivers think it's not only fair but ACCEPTABLE to go outside
the parameters of the program to be fast. More in a bit...
You conquered the game? Have you figured out what it takes to be that
fast for a whole race? Have you run a 100% race with 30 other
drivers, avoided wrecks, managed your pit strategy, etc. and
consistently won?
There certainly is value in being fast in qualifying, but NASCAR
racing isn't about being fast for two laps. You've only conquered a
small insignificant part of the simulator. I pity you if you think
fastlaps are the end-all be-all of motorsports.
I think you would be particularly suited for drag racing, though.
It amazes me that you equate being serious with cheating. People
respect Richard Petty because of his humility and friendliness in
front of his fans, not because he's a successful cheater. I suspect
none of this brouhaha would have happened had you not set yourself to
be the almighty "conqueror" of the simulator.
I would be delighted to find that you are as fast as you claim under
the following conditions:
a) That we run STATIC setups
b) That we do not use hex editors or other grey areas
c) That we run at least a 50% length race
Should you destroy me under these circumstances, THEN I will respect
you for your driving ability. There are drivers who post amazing
times under those conditions and I consider them to be truly excellent
drivers -- Rhawn Black, Brian Tate, and others come to mind. These
guys don't have to have the crutch of a fast setup or hex editor to be
good drivers.
But don't ask me or anyone else to fall down on our knees to worship
you for conquering two laps using questionable methods.
No, none of your rationalization makes sense. You ask us to respect
your mastery of the "grey areas" of the rules? Talk about a
non-sequitor.
Your ego is truly amazing, Julian. I've heard some people say you're
a nice guy and very forthcoming with your secrets, but how on earth
are we supposed to respect you when you try putting yourself up on a
pedastal like this?
--
SimRacing Online Webmaster
http://www.simracing.com/
Hawaii: IWCCCARS
:Excuse me -- this is not the issue at stake here. The issue is NOT
:the fact that you're fast for two laps -- the issue is that you and
:other drivers think it's not only fair but ACCEPTABLE to go outside
:the parameters of the program to be fast. More in a bit...
There is a reason for going fast for a short period of time in FASTLAPs. You see
you learn the value of setting up a car for qual. From there, you will learn how
to setup a race setup. I was trying to say I learn how to setup a car with this
program, then eventually do a race setup.
You have again begin twisting everything..
:You conquered the game? Have you figured out what it takes to be that
:fast for a whole race? Have you run a 100% race with 30 other
:drivers, avoided wrecks, managed your pit strategy, etc. and
:consistently won?
I have done numerous races at 100% length.
What is your problem??? Is it because you are the MAN to goto for carsets, yet
are not known for their driving abilities??
:
:There certainly is value in being fast in qualifying, but NASCAR
:racing isn't about being fast for two laps. You've only conquered a
:small insignificant part of the simulator. I pity you if you think
:fastlaps are the end-all be-all of motorsports.
Hey now! The reason why I said I conquered the game is because I felt I was fast
enough and know enough to hold my own!!
Pity, really?? You must really think I am stupid or something. Tony, you really
don't know who I am, or what I have been through "real" racing. You see, for the
past couple years I have worked on a NASCAR Sportsman team and have a NASCAR Pit
Crew's license. I also have a NHRA Driver's license to sub 9 sec in the quarter.
I have been racing since I was 16. I have well over a decade of experience
probably more than you will ever have!!
I help out other circle and drag teams, not only with suspension, but tuning
race engines, and of course builiding them!!
BTW, I also "own" a business that specializes in high performance for cars and
trucks. I do racecars, streetcars, restorations.. All the way from the ground up
to drag or circletrack cars. As you can see I do this for living..
Tony, I don't know about you, but in my area, I am usually called, "the Tuner or
the Professor." Because of my ideas and theories..
Ahh.. I am educated. I am an ASE Certified Master Technician, ASE Certified
Machinist, and Mechcanical Engineering degree..
:I think you would be particularly suited for drag racing, though.
Anything else you like to speculate??
:It amazes me that you equate being serious with cheating. People
:respect Richard Petty because of his humility and friendliness in
:front of his fans, not because he's a successful cheater. I suspect
:none of this brouhaha would have happened had you not set yourself to
:be the almighty "conqueror" of the simulator.
:
I was just pointing out that he cheated and got caught!! Yes, people still
respect him, yet in the turn of events here, people seem not to respect me!
Granted, I am not no WC driver, but I have known to be friendly and open with my
ideas and thoughts. Yet, I known for being the cheater now.. Because of words
being twisted around, just because I have opened up to let everyone know about
"new" findings in the sim. Where would all the utilities be without this
movement of people "hacking" into the program??
People have to have an "open" mind when they race, regardless if it is "real" or
"simulated". You in fact have a close mind about this whole ordeal.
Your goal so far in this post, is to humiliate me for saying, "I conquered this
sim." I never said that I was the best NASCAR sim driver. It's just stated in
the FASTLAP program for TWO laps, right?? Doesn't that tell you that I know what
I am doing?? I have did what I wanted to do. My first goal was to be known as
"one of the fastest" drivers out there. And I have done that. Now I have become
rated as "Number 1" in the FASTLAP program. I have met my goals. I indeedly
respect all the "other fast drivers" out there!!! If it wasn't for them, I would
have never worked so hard! They know who they are!!
Ahh..is this a challenge???
:I would be delighted to find that you are as fast as you claim under
:the following conditions:
:
:a) That we run STATIC setups
No..problem.. But I think you insecurities now will curious as to what setup I
will use.. I will use a "default" type settings..
:b) That we do not use hex editors or other grey areas
And???
:c) That we run at least a 50% length race
NO, problem.. I am already in a league that does 80-100 % length races. I love
longer races. I love strategy..
:Should you destroy me under these circumstances, THEN I will respect
:you for your driving ability. There are drivers who post amazing
:times under those conditions and I consider them to be truly excellent
:drivers -- Rhawn Black, Brian Tate, and others come to mind. These
:guys don't have to have the crutch of a fast setup or hex editor to be
:good drivers.
Yes, I respect them also. Hmm.. I dunno about you Tony, but you will noticed
that the "respected" guys always qual in the top three or five.. Hmm..
:But don't ask me or anyone else to fall down on our knees to worship
:you for conquering two laps using questionable methods.
Man, are you twisting things around. You know something.. I think you are taking
this personal, since I am associated with the IVGA.. That's right I said it..
:No, none of your rationalization makes sense. You ask us to respect
:your mastery of the "grey areas" of the rules? Talk about a
:non-sequitor.
Hmm.. I guess you have "never" competed in real motorsports, eh?? I ask you to
respect the fact that what I did is not in the rules.. As a matter of fact,
where are the rules?? I have numerous emails from some of the "Papy beta
testers" asking me.."Where are the rules????"
:Your ego is truly amazing, Julian. I've heard some people say you're
:a nice guy and very forthcoming with your secrets, but how on earth
:are we supposed to respect you when you try putting yourself up on a
:pedastal like this?
I am a nice guy, until you step on me. I am not putting myself on a pedastel.
You may think that I am. I am not. Everything gets twisted in NGs.
EGO?? Hmm.. Well I am proud of myself for what I have done in motorsports. I
have been told from the other "fast" drivers to stay quiet.. I think I will
now..
Ciao
:shooting through ***space:
:
:>Have you ever done "any real" racing before?? The rules on Hawaii does not state
:>anything about it.. So it's perfectly legal..
:
:Your admission that you cheat -- oh, I'm sorry, use the grey area --
:will drastically reduce the amount of people willing to race with you.
:
Wake up!!! Stick to you speciality..painting cars..okay??
:I have a question -- are you so frightened that you can't hack it
:(pardon the pun) on a level playing field that you feel it necessary
:to artificially enhance your advantage? I'm not criticizing here,
:just curious. I'd be interested to see how good you are using static
:setups and (gasp!) unmodified track or setup files.
More on this later.. READ next post..got it??
:SimRacing Online Webmaster
:[link lost in import]
:Hawaii: IWCCCARS
Julian Data
IVGA Member #0004
Director of Information Technology
ACE Beta Tester and Driver of IVGA
Channel Operator of #ivga on IRC (Undernet)
Powered by IVGA Pro Gamer System P6-200 oc 233, 96MB EDO
> Sheesh.. I guess you don't know anything about cars.. Yes, the hub did go, but
> is wasn't because it was "illegal" .. It was being used as a "scapegoat" to hide
> something else. Come on think about it!! Why did it take NASCAR TWO days to say
> something about it? Use your head. Don't believe what you always read and hear.
> Get the news from behind the scenes. The media can't really say what is
> happening.
Do you honestly believe that NASCAR, the media, and all the parties
involved are/were in a *** to cover up the "real" infraction with
a "hub" story? Come on man, far too many people and way too many
reporters would have blown it wide open had that been the case. And as
so many of you that attributed JG's success to traction control have had
to eat loads of crow, as his success has continued beyond the
incident(s). Don't get me wrong, I'm not a JG fan per se, but it seems
like a raw deal that the traction control thread keeps rearing its ugly
head every time someone has a point to make.
Now before you try to rip me a new hole for having no experience, I too
have had many years of "real" motorsports experience from drag racing to
asphalt sportsman. Although at least I can admit that that does not in
iteself make me an authority. My 80+ laps in a "real" Winston Cup car
don't make me an authority either.
I think a large part of the problem with this whole thread is that you
don't seem to be open to other peoples interpretation of the sim. You
chastise others for being closed-minded for not seeing your position,
yet you can't see that there might be an opposing point of view. There
are a group of people out there, myself included, that enjoy the sim for
its competition without the hacking (nothing better than winning an IROC
race). I, for one, have no problem with you hacking the program if you
so desire, but don't compete with me as if we were on equal footing.
You have only a shallow victory and the adulation of those who don't
know any better.
Open minded means you can see other points of view; I do believe that
it is you that ALSO fails to see the other side.
This is the second post where you've said this. What are the chances of
this being true?
--
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| \ | || | | || |___ | | | | | || |__| |
| |\ \| || |_| ||___ || | | |_| || _ /
| | \ || _ | ___| || |___ | _ || | \ \
|_| \__||_| |_||_____| \____||_| |_||_| \_\
Go fast, Turn left! The reason to live!
> That's an ENTIREL different scenario.. I respect people's houses!! How dare you
> judge me!!! Americans are always judgemental!!
"ENTIREL" ok everyone makes type o's
I don't think he was judging you, just trying to make a point ..........
The "RULES" are the options in the software.To change thes options
therefore is cheating,you are
not abiding to the parameters of the game, rather adding your own.
You are right, everyone you have extended a "helping hand" to is
gratefull I'm sure,I am not so sure the
people you race against feel the same way.
The point is not everyone has the ability,time,knowledge to "hack" the
software. You consider this "fair".
Also when it is discovered (top teams finding an "edge") there are
usually suspensions and fines. The point is what can they do to you for
stretching the rules? Not Much. So in your mind there is no consequences
so there is no violation?
The idea that it is ok to hack a copyrighted program to gain some edge
over the competition is hard justify.
It is illegal, from what I understand, to alter computer software. Maybe
I am wrong.
Just my .02, I am not "judging" you just trying to participate in a
debate on what most consider "cheating"
Don't take it personally, I thought this was a place to exchange views
and information???
Mick in Tampa
:writes:
:
:>The "hub" incident with Jeff Gordon was completely bogus, it really
:wasn't
:>about
:>the hub in the first place. It was hidden. He traction control on board!!
:I
:>have
:>very reliable sources.
:
:Traction control on the front wheel?? yeah , your source is really
:reliable.
:
Sheesh.. I guess you don't know anything about cars.. Yes, the hub did go, but
is wasn't because it was "illegal" .. It was being used as a "scapegoat" to hide
something else. Come on think about it!! Why did it take NASCAR TWO days to say
something about it? Use your head. Don't believe what you always read and hear.
Get the news from behind the scenes. The media can't really say what is
happening.
As for traction control, I guess you don't know much about cars. You need a
wheel sensor at each wheel to which the given speed at each wheel. Now think
about it? Something like ABS
As for what the Gordon car used. There device was hidden in the bellhousing and
hooked up to one of "hot boxes". The box was dead and used the a "different"
connector. Now NASCAR mandates all cars use the same "recommended" connector. It
read the rpm off of the flywheel.. There were set parameters set in the "hot
box"
Well I will go on later...if you want?? How about via email, okay?? This isn't
the place for this..
take care
:Gene
>In the "real" racing world..this would be called the "gray" area..
No, in the "real" racing world, this is called CHEATING, and nothing else.
I'm kinda sorry I got in on this thread late, but now that I'm here,
you're toast, Julian.
WC teams make adjustments that are available to other teams. If they go
outside the rules, they receive fines. If there's one thing that Gary
Nelson has done right, it's getting rid of the "gray" area. You're
statement that you are not a cheater is the most arrogant assertion I've
ever seen on this newsgroup!
Pat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell The Chevy Monte Carlo 6,94,88,16,4,25
Lexington, AL NASCAR's Wide Load War Eagle!!!
Home Page: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/pscindex.html
NASCAR Stats: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/nascstat.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Have you ever done "any real" racing before?? The rules on Hawaii does not state
>anything about it.. So it's perfectly legal..
Dumbass. You are given a certain set of parameters that you can adjust to
try to make your car faster than other drivers. Adjusting anything
OUTSIDE of those parameters is CHEATING!
Pat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell The Chevy Monte Carlo 6,94,88,16,4,25
Lexington, AL NASCAR's Wide Load War Eagle!!!
Home Page: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/pscindex.html
NASCAR Stats: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/nascstat.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Your admission that you cheat -- oh, I'm sorry, use the grey area --
>will drastically reduce the amount of people willing to race with you.
I certainly won't, unless is under my terms.
Tony, I'd be interested in joining this event (like it will happen), and I
think some guys like Rich Scott, Red Lindsey, and several others would be
interested as well.
Pat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell The Chevy Monte Carlo 6,94,88,16,4,25
Lexington, AL NASCAR's Wide Load War Eagle!!!
Home Page: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/pscindex.html
NASCAR Stats: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/nascstat.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
I have kind of a different take on this cheating controversy.
I have to agree that hexing a setup is probably cheating but I
think the problem here has to do with at least a couple of
different issues.
The first is translation. I think Julians' posts seem a bit more
aggressive than they really are. His english is a bit halting (no
offense Julian). And therein I think is a lot of room for misinterp-
retation( God knows I'm good at that!) I believe that his early
posts were just informing everyone that hexing is going on. I am more
concerned about those who use it on a regular basis..that aren't
talking!..perhaps those "fast" racers who Julian referred to as saying
"be quiet".
And that is the second. I think Julian is being regarded as the
"poster boy" for cheating. But I'm pretty sure he didn't invent
hexing of the camber, fuel etc. A lot of others , some who we respect
as great drivers, are probably doing the same thing. It's frustrating
not knowing who is doing it and Julian happens to be the focal point
of that anger.
Anyhow it all became a bit clearer when Julian inferred that he was
not from this country.
As for the posts declaring that we shouldn't assume someone is
cheating because they're fast: all I can say to that is now there
is a seed of doubt. Those who go fast know; those who aren't and have
spent considerable time working on setups probably have their faith
a bit shaken. Darrell is right in saying that we shouldn't assume
speed=cheating but on the other hand what are we to think? You see
a 15 year old who just got a computer two months ago, Nascar a month
later blistering you lap after lap. It makes you wonder a lot of
things. The worst thing for me is, now what speeds do I use as a
benchmark for my own progress? Who is live or who is memor-hex?
Finally, I think, at least from my limited contact, that Julian
is one heck of a nice guy. And he is publishing a setup guide which
I am very interested in.(I have an ancient post from Rhawn Black
to the Sportsim Forum on Cserve about him writing a setup guide. Boy,
I'd have liked to see that, but then Hawaii came along...rats!!)
So at least he is willing to help others get faster, not only in
Nascar but Indycar and GP2.
I am not defending Julians' view of the gray area. But I do realize
that without people pushing the techno limits we wouldn't have
carsets, weigh-it programs, racelength changers, strength modifiers,
and doing a character check I think Julian is more above the board
than it might appear here.
Thanks for the space and time.
Regards,
Greg
Gavel on Hawaii
writes:
Good advice cause your blowing smoke up our ass with your rambling
bullshit stories. You own a business and race Drag cars and stock cars and
have the time to spend hours conquering a racing sim ..... where do you
get the 40 hour days??
Gene
> I didn't know there were such setups until these posts came out. I sent
>their game so let them decide. They said that the .7gal is borderline
>cheating because it takes special knowledge to do? But that messing with the
>rear camber was definitely cheating. They asked me to send them one of these
>setups to test out but I don't have any- darn it.
They need only look at the posts in this thread to discover which drivers
(or is that driver?) are cheating.
Pat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell The Chevy Monte Carlo 6,94,88,16,4,25
Lexington, AL NASCAR's Wide Load War Eagle!!!
Home Page: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/pscindex.html
NASCAR Stats: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/nascstat.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted text (47 lines)
> Hi all, > I have kind of a different take on this cheating controversy. > I have to agree that hexing a setup is probably cheating but I > think the problem here has to do with at least a couple of > different issues. > The first is translation. I think Julians' posts seem a bit more > aggressive than they really are. His english is a bit halting (no > offense Julian). And therein I think is a lot of room for misinterp- > retation( God knows I'm good at that!) I believe that his early > posts were just informing everyone that hexing is going on. I am more > concerned about those who use it on a regular basis..that aren't > talking!..perhaps those "fast" racers who Julian referred to as saying > "be quiet". > And that is the second. I think Julian is being regarded as the > "poster boy" for cheating. But I'm pretty sure he didn't invent > hexing of the camber, fuel etc. A lot of others , some who we respect > as great drivers, are probably doing the same thing. It's frustrating > not knowing who is doing it and Julian happens to be the focal point > of that anger. > Anyhow it all became a bit clearer when Julian inferred that he was > not from this country. > As for the posts declaring that we shouldn't assume someone is > cheating because they're fast: all I can say to that is now there > is a seed of doubt. Those who go fast know; those who aren't and have > spent considerable time working on setups probably have their faith > a bit shaken. Darrell is right in saying that we shouldn't assume > speed=cheating but on the other hand what are we to think? You see > a 15 year old who just got a computer two months ago, Nascar a month > later blistering you lap after lap. It makes you wonder a lot of > things. The worst thing for me is, now what speeds do I use as a > benchmark for my own progress? Who is live or who is memor-hex? > Finally, I think, at least from my limited contact, that Julian > is one heck of a nice guy. And he is publishing a setup guide which > I am very interested in.(I have an ancient post from Rhawn Black > to the Sportsim Forum on Cserve about him writing a setup guide. Boy, > I'd have liked to see that, but then Hawaii came along...rats!!) > So at least he is willing to help others get faster, not only in > Nascar but Indycar and GP2. > I am not defending Julians' view of the gray area. But I do realize > that without people pushing the techno limits we wouldn't have > carsets, weigh-it programs, racelength changers, strength modifiers, > and doing a character check I think Julian is more above the board > than it might appear here. > Thanks for the space and time. > Regards, > Greg > Gavel on HawaiiSounds like HAL.
Why don't we invite him to come run in a HAL event? That is, of course,
if he'd be interested.
I was looking for past articles about setups, and I find something which
I find funny.
So, I thought, this must be a great guy to get tips from, and the thing about
setup in GP2 that he recently posted is great.
There is a little problem, though. The following is a not so recent article.
Subject: GP2: Setup Guide Tips..
Date: 1996/08/27
Organization: World
Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
I was wondering if there will be a setup guide in the works for GP2?? I just got
GP2, I must say the manual is very confusing..
I am completely lost in setting up a car, and reading the graphs..Could someone
please help me??
thanks
Julian Data #0004
Director of Information Technology, Consultant, "Ace" Test Driver
Offical Channel Operator (#ivgacsnc, on undernet)
International Video Gamers Assoiciation, Inc.
Http://www.ivga.com
IVGA Headquarters:
International Video Gamers Assoiciation, Inc. (IVGA)
14100 Walsingham Avenue
Suite 36
Largo, FL 34644
Voice: (813) 596-6661
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Aren't the two articles a bit contracdicting ?
Thanks for a good laugh :)
Bye,
Luca
Quoted text (28 lines)
> Hey now! The reason why I said I conquered the game is because I felt I was fast > enough and know enough to hold my own!! > Pity, really?? You must really think I am stupid or something. Tony, you really > don't know who I am, or what I have been through "real" racing. You see, for the > past couple years I have worked on a NASCAR Sportsman team and have a NASCAR Pit > Crew's license. I also have a NHRA Driver's license to sub 9 sec in the quarter. > I have been racing since I was 16. I have well over a decade of experience > probably more than you will ever have!! > I help out other circle and drag teams, not only with suspension, but tuning > race engines, and of course builiding them!! > BTW, I also "own" a business that specializes in high performance for cars and > trucks. I do racecars, streetcars, restorations.. All the way from the ground up > to drag or circletrack cars. As you can see I do this for living.. > Tony, I don't know about you, but in my area, I am usually called, "the Tuner or > the Professor." Because of my ideas and theories.. > Ahh.. I am educated. I am an ASE Certified Master Technician, ASE Certified > Machinist, and Mechcanical Engineering degree.. > :I think you would be particularly suited for drag racing, though. > Anything else you like to speculate??> So know all you have judged me as a cheater?? First of all, where are the
> rules??
I heard about this thread and finally broke down and learned out to
subscibe to
the newsgroup. After reading all the information on cheating, let me
put my
2 cents in as well.
I was one of the original 4 that started testing Hawaii 2 years ago so I
take
a deep intrest on what goes on since I have alot of time invested in the
development of it. I never really took part in any of the IVGA's
functions
because I don't feel that 2 laps makes a race nor racing the AI offline
with
a set or rules and then turning in results opens up a whole new can of
cheating
potential. That was why myself and so many others were so e***d that
Hawaii
was born and we could have a place to race each other without the worry
of
someone cheating to win.
Well, times have changed and human nature comes out. Guys want to be on
the top
of the list so bad, that they will even cheat their way to the top. If
you
cheated, did you really win? I feel that anything you do outside of the
program
that alters setups or the program itself and gives you an advantage is
cheating.
I'm very serious about my simulated racing as well but to say you have
to cheat,
flame slower drivers, etc to be really serious is off base. Just the
thought of
you and others are hacking the program to be the fastest has alot of us
that have
been on Hawaii for a good while now, re-thinking if we have really found
"our paradise"
The series I race in, we all compete to get as close to real racing as
possable
without the fear that you are getting beat by someone that is not a
better driver,
but a better program hacker. Alot of people from papyrus and testers
have put
alot of time into this but I'm afraid that a few hackers could ruin it
for everyone.
You can bet that papyrus knows of this thread and cheating and it will
be taken
care of before NRL rolls around. I don't think papyrus has much time to
watch
over Hawaii right now since it uses the "old" program which NRL will not
use. When
NRL rolls around with Nascar 2, I feel they will be ready for the
cheating aspect.
You are right there are really no rules that say you can't do the things
you have
done....as there is no rule that says you can't jingle the change in
your pocket
while someone is trying to sink a 5 foot put. It is just courtasy and
respect
for the people you race against. I don't cheat people to win and don't
expect
them to cheat me.
Brian
Quoted text (19 lines)
>:> >:> I am not fooling myself.. Just using my wits to get more speed.. I am >:"real" >:> racer, I actually do this for living..; ) There are setup programs are >:there >:> that do it for you!!! Just look around.. >:> >: >:Are you really Rusty Wallace? Sounds like him... :-) >: >Actually no.. I am not Rusty.. He's alright though; ) >take care >: >Julian Data >IVGA Member #0004 >Director of Information Technology >ACE Beta Tester and Driver of IVGA >Channel Operator of #ivga on IRC (Undernet) >Powered by IVGA Pro Gamer System P6-200 oc 233, 96MB EDOthat statement right there is a bunch of bull shit.. for 2 reasons i can shoot that
down...
1. cause i dont qualify in the top5 cause i opt not to qualify and for people who race
with me they can pretty much say i am a well respected driver on hawaii. I dont believe
in qualuifing cause i like to run my own race if im that good ill get to the front
anyway and i usually do.....
2. how many time did you see dale earnhardt qualify in the back? many times and yet he
is one of the best drivers on the track...
as far as cheating and the so called grey area nascar has taken the grey area away...
and if you are cheating like that shows just how good of a driver you really are...
Brian Motisko
(Motisko)
> You are right there are really no rules that say you can't do the things
> you have done....as there is no rule that says you can't jingle the change in
> your pocket while someone is trying to sink a 5 foot putt. It is just courtesy
> and respect for the people you race against. I don't cheat people to win and
> don't expect them to cheat me.
> Brian
Could not be said more eloquently!
--
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| \ | || | | || |___ | | | | | || |__| |
| |\ \| || |_| ||___ || | | |_| || _ /
| | \ || _ | ___| || |___ | _ || | \ \
|_| \__||_| |_||_____| \____||_| |_||_| \_\
Go fast, Turn left! The reason to live!
Julian and everyone,
Unfortunately I don't have time to say much on this topic but I will say
the following. Not that it matters much to anyone in particular, but I
will never ever race with anyone who is caught cheating or admits to
adjusting the garage settings outside the limits of the sim. Now that I
think about it, that will include some of the drivers I've gotten to know
over the past two years. But out of respect for myself and all who I race
against, not to mention the time and hard work we all (top drivers and
those striving to be) put into going fast and making it last, I can not and
will not waste my time and money racing those who have altered their
setups. Sure there are no rules disallowing it, but my morals of clean
competition prevent me from accepting it. I would say "hope to race you
one day" as I love great competition and always wondered how you'd do in
one of the "pro" series' on Hawaii, but that desire is gone now, sadly.
Ripp
Virtual Velocity Racing
"Race for the Sake of the Race"
> >Your admission that you cheat -- oh, I'm sorry, use the grey area --
> >will drastically reduce the amount of people willing to race with you.
> I certainly won't, unless is under my terms.
As long as their are ways to cheat, People will. Hawaii should work to
prevent this.
I respect Julian's honesty in saying that he did this. However, Julian how
would you
feel if someone was faster than you based not on ability or set-up, but by
'hacking'
the program. In my opinion this is wrong. As wrong as a nascar team putting
one of those Rudd auto spoiler adjustors on.
Richard Scott
Quoted text (17 lines)
>Julian and everyone, >Unfortunately I don't have time to say much on this topic but I will say >the following. Not that it matters much to anyone in particular, but I >will never ever race with anyone who is caught cheating or admits to >adjusting the garage settings outside the limits of the sim. Now that I >think about it, that will include some of the drivers I've gotten to know >over the past two years. But out of respect for myself and all who I race >against, not to mention the time and hard work we all (top drivers and >those striving to be) put into going fast and making it last, I can not and >will not waste my time and money racing those who have altered their >setups. Sure there are no rules disallowing it, but my morals of clean >competition prevent me from accepting it. I would say "hope to race you >one day" as I love great competition and always wondered how you'd do in >one of the "pro" series' on Hawaii, but that desire is gone now, sadly. >Ripp >Virtual Velocity Racing >"Race for the Sake of the Race"Altering "setup" options that are not available via normal software
provided methods is cheating if one uses them when racing against others
that do not use such "unsanctioned" means.
Not only is this a cheat against all other "rule abiding" racers, it
cheats the person who uses unsanctioned tweaks. It is no longer a level
playing field so any "gains" are worthless. Any ill-gained victories
are "Hollow". Racing is a competitive sport and obtaining an edge via
unsanctioned means takes the competition out of the sport.
When one cheats, they are only playing with oneself. Anyone with
experience knows it's alot more fun with a partner. ;-)
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
:I was looking for past articles about setups, and I find something which
:I find funny.
:
:Aren't the two articles a bit contracdicting ?
:
:Thanks for a good laugh :)
:
:Bye,
:Luca
Luca..
A couple of weeks ago, I was curious if there was a setup guide for Gp2. So can
I can take some of the time off of learning the setups for GP2. Evidentally,
there isn't. So I decided to study the setup procedures on my own. Sheesh..
I have learned alot about GP2 since then..; )
Quoted text (11 lines)
>: Darrel, there is cheating going on in Hawaii! And there are many forms >Pete et al, > I guess you misunderstood my point. I'll try to restate it clearer: >There are people on Hawaii that do cheat, whether it be 2-lapping, using >a tsr program, etc. >The problem is, since there is cheating going on, many people, such as >one of the original posters and a few followups, wrongly assume that >everyone running super fast times (4-5mph faster than they are after >they have spent countless hours on their setups) must be cheating.On Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:25:55 -0500, Mike Marshall
This happens all the time in all games over the net. The funny thing
is that the lamers who cheat actually think they are good when they
win and boast how good they are.
Just my $.02 worth to all cheaters out there. If you have to cheat to
win then you really should not be playing at all. Must feel real low
if you still lose though....:-)
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (18 lines)
>> Cheating on Hawaii huh well I have been accussed of cheating On hawaii >> because of my times at Mich and Dega by people on hawaii because I Qual. at >> 198.1 to 198.2 at Dega and 193 to 194 at Mich.But I have to say yeas some >> guys cheat at dega to get there times of 198.3 and above but as of the >> other tracks I don't know how anyone can cheat at other tracks.What all the >> guys I know do to get there times at the tracks are kinda like I do at Mich >> it is fast for one lap and one lap only for qual. and after that it is *** >> and they run a different setup in the race that runs fast aswell.All I can >> say is quit worrying about if someone is cheating and find your own speed >> because Dega is the only track you can cheat at in qual.And that doesn't >> help in the race. >> Robert GT86 >This guy admits to cheating at Tally? How lame! To excel above others >in competition by your own merits gives the satisfaction. You must >really feel like a loser when the rest of us out drive you in the race! >Just my $.02>Gavel,
(SNIP)
Exactly. Nothing will improve your times better than racing head to
head with a friend and discussing setups.
(SNIP)
^^^^^^^^^^
Hehe, I should have mentioned in my previous post that this is the
friend I modem race with. Although I've never beaten him, my times
have improved greatly. And I can also verify that Steve does not
cheat in any way. The lousy-good-for-nothing-always-better-than-me-
chump. But hey, what are friends for? <G>
David Range
DJR on Hawaii
Quoted text (16 lines)
> .....Snip > To true. Lets face it some people are just plain hopelless at racing > sims. I have looked at a lot of those times and I can match and > sometimes better them. BTW I dont play Hawai as It would bankrupt me. > I have some mates who play at my house and to be honest they just cant > come to gripps know matter how much they try. As far as they are > concerned they are going well. I can see what they are doing wrong but > they dont listen which is what could be happening here. If i cant go > that fast and i know i am good then they must be cheating....:-) Dont > enter there head that they might just be plain hopless... > Shane Lansky > Hobart,Tasmania > AustraliaQuoted text (16 lines)
> .....Snip > To true. Lets face it some people are just plain hopelless at racing > sims. I have looked at a lot of those times and I can match and > sometimes better them. BTW I dont play Hawai as It would bankrupt me. > I have some mates who play at my house and to be honest they just cant > come to gripps know matter how much they try. As far as they are > concerned they are going well. I can see what they are doing wrong but > they dont listen which is what could be happening here. If i cant go > that fast and i know i am good then they must be cheating....:-) Dont > enter there head that they might just be plain hopless... > Shane Lansky > Hobart,Tasmania > AustraliaWell this pretty much says it all:
*******************************
Welcome to "Hawaii"! - The NASCAR Racing League Prototype
Press <ESC> to return to Main Menu.
Rule Clarification: Any program external to NASCAR/Hawaii used to
enhance on track performance IS cheating. Re-read NRL_0796.TXT if
you've forgotten. Just because you haven't been
caught/warned/suspended/
permanently banned from the NRL yet, doesn't mean you won't be.
Proceed
at your own risk.
*******************************
Just be careful downloading .stg files from the net cause there are
some out there that aren't exactly kosher.
Thanks Papyrus.
Viper
Excellent post. Respect _is_ what it is all about. There are no huge
monetary prizes, so what possible motive can there be to cheat? Don't
these guys realise that they are actually cheating themselves of the
respect they might otherwise be able to achieve from their fellow racers?
A man without the respect of his peers is a very poor man indeed :(
Richard
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Luca.. > A couple of weeks ago, I was curious if there was a setup guide for Gp2. So can > I can take some of the time off of learning the setups for GP2. Evidentally, > there isn't. So I decided to study the setup procedures on my own. Sheesh.. > I have learned alot about GP2 since then..; )That's our League Administrator! We're real proud of him! (g)
> deal where so many other factors come into play. Qualifying on the > other
> hand is a little more useful but still plays a small role in the longer
> races.
Case in point:
Fin Str Car Driver Laps Led Reason Out
---------------------------------------------------------------
5 16 #35 markmc 196 11 Running
Yes Ripp, I'm grinning from ear to ear!
...and no, this isn't an endor***t for blowing off building good
qualifiers. It's just that a Lot can happen over 200 laps as opposed to
20... and that's what I like about the south!
>>Have you ever done "any real" racing before?? The rules on Hawaii does not state
>>anything about it.. So it's perfectly legal..
>Dumbass. You are given a certain set of parameters that you can adjust to
>try to make your car faster than other drivers. Adjusting anything
>OUTSIDE of those parameters is CHEATING!
hahahaha.... I guess you realise that anyone who cheats is never going
to see that what you say is 100% right. They have to win at all costs.
All it means is that they need to cheat as they have not got a hope in
hell of getting to the top as they realise they are just not good
enough..... :-)
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (17 lines)
>I was looking for past articles about setups, and I find something which >I find funny. >> Hey now! The reason why I said I conquered the game is because I felt I was fast >> enough and know enough to hold my own!! >> Pity, really?? You must really think I am stupid or something. Tony, you really >> don't know who I am, or what I have been through "real" racing. You see, for the >> past couple years I have worked on a NASCAR Sportsman team and have a NASCAR Pit >> Crew's license. I also have a NHRA Driver's license to sub 9 sec in the quarter. >> I have been racing since I was 16. I have well over a decade of experience >> probably more than you will ever have!! >I am completely lost in setting up a car, and reading the graphs..Could someone >please help me?? >thanks >Julian Data #0004 > Director of Information Technology, Consultant, "Ace" Test DriverTony Johns said:
I would be delighted to find that you are as fast as you claim under
Tony, if he accepts your challenge, let me know when so I can log on and
watch this bad boy for myself. It could be bigger than Tyson-Holyfield !!
:)
-
"
Excellantly put Brian. To me the etiguette of a sport is just as if
not more important than the rules. The "grey" area Julian talks about
,which to me is cheating, may not break the "rules" of hawaii, but it
certainly violates the etiquette.
Randy
Labatt_49
I entered my first race two nights ago after playing NASCAR on my home
computer for some time. Great sim, but there is definately some
cheating. Some nimrod user id SLACKJAW was involved in an accident in
my last race ad Dega and was able to come back from almost a lap down
and pass me in three laps. I was turning speeds of 194 and 195 and he
passed me like I was standing still in the tri-oval (he was also out
of control and ran me into the wall) I finished 6th out of about 18
cars so I was obviously running pretty well.
I know how to remove the restictor plate at Dega and I am convinced
that this is what many are doing. I will send an email to papy
regarding this user and I encourage others to do the same. We can
clean this up, and have some fun.
PS
some of you guys and gals out there need more practice before entering
Hawaii. Your killing those of us who know how to drive. There were 6
accidents in the 3 races I ran last night. One of them took me out
because the guy who wrecked left his car at the top of the turn 3 laps
after the wreck and took me out while I was attempting to pass.
Weekend Racer. Gotta Lovitt
work hard and spend your money
racing.
Go 24
Alan, only solution is to get into a league, although not perfect
the problem drivers will get removed by League Admins!
Pete
Quoted text (26 lines)
> I entered my first race two nights ago after playing NASCAR on my home > computer for some time. Great sim, but there is definately some > cheating. Some nimrod user id SLACKJAW was involved in an accident in > my last race ad Dega and was able to come back from almost a lap down > and pass me in three laps. I was turning speeds of 194 and 195 and he > passed me like I was standing still in the tri-oval (he was also out > of control and ran me into the wall) I finished 6th out of about 18 > cars so I was obviously running pretty well. > I know how to remove the restictor plate at Dega and I am convinced > that this is what many are doing. I will send an email to papy > regarding this user and I encourage others to do the same. We can > clean this up, and have some fun. > PS > some of you guys and gals out there need more practice before entering > Hawaii. Your killing those of us who know how to drive. There were 6 > accidents in the 3 races I ran last night. One of them took me out > because the guy who wrecked left his car at the top of the turn 3 laps > after the wreck and took me out while I was attempting to pass. > Weekend Racer. Gotta Lovitt > work hard and spend your money > racing. > Go 24Quoted text (12 lines)
> PS > some of you guys and gals out there need more practice before entering > Hawaii. Your killing those of us who know how to drive. There were 6 > accidents in the 3 races I ran last night. One of them took me out > because the guy who wrecked left his car at the top of the turn 3 laps > after the wreck and took me out while I was attempting to pass. > Weekend Racer. Gotta Lovitt > work hard and spend your money > racing. > Go 24Quoted text (28 lines)
> > PS > > some of you guys and gals out there need more practice before entering > > Hawaii. Your killing those of us who know how to drive. There were 6 > > accidents in the 3 races I ran last night. One of them took me out > > because the guy who wrecked left his car at the top of the turn 3 laps > > after the wreck and took me out while I was attempting to pass. > > Weekend Racer. Gotta Lovitt > > work hard and spend your money > > racing. > > Go 24 > Do you know how to drive.....oooooooooo......what a man...nobody else > does....oooooooooooo.....lets ban everyone that has a life....... > Looks like a rather safe night in hawaii. In the real world, I think > that the winston cup races would love to see "only" 6 accidents in 3 > weekends of racing. As for the car taking you out, maybe you should > have zigged instead of zagged. > Let everybody have fun, not just the people that have nothing better to > do with their time than to strap up in front of their computer and > believe that they're A.J. Foyt trapped in a geeks life. > yours truly... > bdmfshQuoted text (13 lines)
>I entered my first race two nights ago after playing NASCAR on my home >computer for some time. Great sim, but there is definately some >cheating. Some nimrod user id SLACKJAW was involved in an accident in >my last race ad Dega and was able to come back from almost a lap down >and pass me in three laps. I was turning speeds of 194 and 195 and he >passed me like I was standing still in the tri-oval (he was also out >of control and ran me into the wall) I finished 6th out of about 18 >cars so I was obviously running pretty well. >I know how to remove the restictor plate at Dega and I am convinced >that this is what many are doing. I will send an email to papy >regarding this user and I encourage others to do the same. We can >clean this up, and have some fun.Quoted text (11 lines)
>Do you know how to drive.....oooooooooo......what a man...nobody else >does....oooooooooooo.....lets ban everyone that has a life....... >Looks like a rather safe night in hawaii. In the real world, I think >that the winston cup races would love to see "only" 6 accidents in 3 >weekends of racing. As for the car taking you out, maybe you should >have zigged instead of zagged. >Let everybody have fun, not just the people that have nothing better to >do with their time than to strap up in front of their computer and >believe that they're A.J. Foyt trapped in a geeks life. >yours truly... >bdmfsh> > PS
> > some of you guys and gals out there need more practice before entering
> > Hawaii. Your killing those of us who know how to drive. There were 6
This is a true statement. You have the multi.exe, use it off line and try
to keep the thing on the track. Learning to drive while on-line is not a
good idea, for anyone.
This obviously hit home. Talking about someone you know?
You took this to personal, and too far. All he was asking was for 'some'
of the drivers to practice driving while off-line, not on line. Calling LD
and getting taken out in the first few laps is no fun. Ever ride behind
some of those guys? Couldn't stay straight to save their lives.
League races are closely watched by the admin guy, and the ' swervin Irnins
' are booted pretty quick. The pickup races are dangerious, unless you set
the level to enter the race pretty high. Even then it is a free for all
sometimes.
Just my .02.
Allen, one nite on Hawaii and you already know it all. Amazing, and
you've figured out who's cheating? I agree that there's alot of crazy
drivers running Hawaii, which is why I haven't run Dega since August. I'll
only run league races there now. When I ran there (without any cheats) my
best lap in the draft was 200.511 and we were consistantly qualifying in the
197s (of course with high track temps). I noticed guys are qualifing in the
198s now. So...race laps in the 194 to 195 range aren't a match for 200s in
the draft. Spend a month or two running Dega then come back and say a guy is
cheating when he goes by you when your running 194-195. I improved one heck
of a lot after I started racing humans, I'm sure you will too.
IMHO,
Mike Radler
Quoted text (14 lines)
> I entered my first race two nights ago after playing NASCAR on my home > computer for some time. Great sim, but there is definately some > cheating. Some nimrod user id SLACKJAW was involved in an accident in > my last race ad Dega and was able to come back from almost a lap down > and pass me in three laps. I was turning speeds of 194 and 195 and he > passed me like I was standing still<snip> > I know how to remove the restictor plate at Dega and I am convinced > that this is what many are doing. I will send an email to papy > regarding this user and I encourage others to do the same. We can > clean this up, and have some fun. > some of you guys and gals out there need more practice before entering > Hawaii. Your killing those of us who know how to drive.<snip>I guess you are in your ***s.
Some people get online to have a good race. They can accept an
accident when it happens to them but when some of the idiots are using
there cars as an online battering ram I dont blame them for getting
upset.
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (12 lines)
>Allen, one nite on Hawaii and you already know it all. Amazing, and >you've figured out who's cheating? I agree that there's alot of crazy >drivers running Hawaii, which is why I haven't run Dega since August. I'll >only run league races there now. When I ran there (without any cheats) my >best lap in the draft was 200.511 and we were consistantly qualifying in the >197s (of course with high track temps). I noticed guys are qualifing in the >198s now. So...race laps in the 194 to 195 range aren't a match for 200s in >the draft. Spend a month or two running Dega then come back and say a guy is >cheating when he goes by you when your running 194-195. I improved one heck >of a lot after I started racing humans, I'm sure you will too. >IMHO, >Mike Radler[snipped]
swervin Irnins??? Did I miss something here? <G>
Don Clawson
DonC - Hawaii
> [snipped]
> swervin Irnins??? Did I miss something here? <G>
Uhhhhhhh..... Oh, yeah! Had to change the name to protect the guilty!
:-)
My speel checker is on the blink!
Later,
Robert
