Which Steering wheel?

Just got a TSW wheel/pedal setup Am very happy, much improved over T2 Hank

Hi There, I am looking for some recommendations for PC steering wheels for games like F1 Grand Prix 2, Screamer... etc. At there prices I don`t want to make a mistake and buy the wrong one. The 3 I am looking at, are as follows... Mad Catz (also avaliable for the playstation) Thrustmaster T2 GP500 Race Centre (the one with the gear padles behind the wheel) Do you own any of them? How do they respond? Any comments would be appreciated, Thanks in advance, Dan.

> Just got a TSW wheel/pedal setup > Am very happy, much improved over T2 > Hank Hi Hank :) Glad to hear that you are happy with your TSW, do us a favor and help promote them especially here in RAS, it seems all you ever hear is T2 etc Later :) Trev

I've told you before that if you sent me a wheel to 'test' I'd throw away my old T1 and be your #1 promoter =) Heck, I'll even put a 'Get it!' next to your link on my page, putting you in the elite company of the Intergraph Reactor. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

I am trying to track down any available information concerning virtual reality race cars which may include a realistic car interior and/or body and which include movement of the machine. Please respond via e-mail or reply post with Usenet newsgroups, WWW sites, etc. which may be helpful. Thanks, Martin Caskey

Only too true! I think I may have a filter in my newsread for T1 and T2 though. I can't keep up otherwise! Stuart PS - sorry, but mine's a CDS! -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Oxfordshire, England, UK

I'm stupid, what's TSW? I was going to buy a T2 since it's all I see on the shelf. Steve

Reasonably priced? Well, perhaps for you, but I find the $290+ mentioned in the above URL to be just a bit pricey. Will stick with my $89.00 T2 for now. Actually, will probably stay with my older T1. The T2 is just sitting there taking up space. I just don't like that big padded wheel. Go figure.

>I'm stupid, what's TSW? I was going to buy a T2 since it's all I see on >the shelf. >Steve http://www.ipm.net/~hmb/indexframe.htm

On 31 Oct 1996 18:00:47 GMT, "Robert Johnson" : :> Thomas Super Wheel. It's a big step above the T2. You won't find it in :the :> stores, you have to mail order it directly from Thomas Enterprises. I :just :> purchased one and wrote up a review of it for the Late Night website. The :> URL is http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/Features/tsw.html :> :> If you're looking for a reasonably priced professional wheel, the TSW is :a :> good bet. :> : :Reasonably priced? Well, perhaps for you, but I find the $290+ mentioned :in the above URL to be just a bit pricey. Will stick with my $89.00 T2 for :now. Actually, will probably stay with my older T1. The T2 is just :sitting there taking up space. I just don't like that big padded wheel. Go :figure. I've never actually seen a T1, myself, but it must be tiny if you think of the T2 as a big and padded -- I find it rather small. Is a TSW that much smaller than a T2? Bear

>I'm stupid, what's TSW? I was going to buy a T2 since it's all I see on >the shelf. >Steve Thomas Super Wheel. It's a big step above the T2. You won't find it in the stores, you have to mail order it directly from Thomas Enterprises. I just purchased one and wrote up a review of it for the Late Night website. The URL is http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/Features/tsw.html If you're looking for a reasonably priced professional wheel, the TSW is a good bet. Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

As you said, you have never seen one! :-) Actually, they are pretty much the same. Just strip off the foam padding on the T2, replace the pedals with rollers, and you have a T1. The steering wheel on the T2 is about twice the thickness of the T1. I just don't like the feel of it. I don't know about the TSW, just saw the picture at the URL. Saw the price and bailed pretty quick. Gotta go install my Reactor... Robert

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>Subject: Re: Which Steering wheel? >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:44:25 GMT >On 31 Oct 1996 18:00:47 GMT, "Robert Johnson" >: >:> Thomas Super Wheel. It's a big step above the T2. You won't find it in >:the >:> stores, you have to mail order it directly from Thomas Enterprises. I >:just >:> purchased one and wrote up a review of it for the Late Night website. The >:> URL is http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/Features/tsw.html >:> >:> If you're looking for a reasonably priced professional wheel, the TSW is >:a >:> good bet. >:> >: >:Reasonably priced? Well, perhaps for you, but I find the $290+ mentioned >:in the above URL to be just a bit pricey. Will stick with my $89.00 T2 for >:now. Actually, will probably stay with my older T1. The T2 is just >:sitting there taking up space. I just don't like that big padded wheel. Go >:figure. > I've never actually seen a T1, myself, but it must be tiny if >you think of the T2 as a big and padded -- I find it rather small. >Is a TSW that much smaller than a T2? > Bear

No, a TSW is bigger than a T2.

I guess it all depends on your budget, and how often it's going to be used.I have a T2. For $90-$100, it's a a big improvement over using the keyboard or a joystick. I'm sure the TSW is a big step above the T2, but if your not going to use it that much, why spend the extra $$. I haven't had a problem yet with my T2. Then again, I don't play nascar every waking minute. If your somebody who plays nascar everyday, the TSW or better is probably for you. --Don Turcotte

I would love to have the TSW or similar controller, but like many I can't see spending that much money. Until I win the lottery (which will be a long time since I don't play), I'll keep using my trusty 2 year old T1, which has never let me down (not even a broken pedal spring). -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

I race quite a bit and am a bit rough on my T2. (Thank god for lots of duct tape!) After about 11 months I haven't had any probs yet with my T2 and think for the $$, its great. david vetteracer (on Hawaii -- --"he rubbed ya, and rubbin son, is racin" - Harry Hogg ________________________________________________________________________ David Burton Animation & Visual Effects Animation Director Broadcast / Commercial / Film WEBSITE - http://www.alliance.net/~tpac9 ________________________________________________________________________--

I'm sure many people who looked at the Nissan Skyliner would have done the same thing - if only they had _driven_ it they could understand what a HUGE mistake they made..... 'Nuff said.... Cheers! John (a VERY happy TSW owner) _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

> Reasonably priced? Well, perhaps for you, but I find the $290+ mentioned > in the above URL to be just a bit pricey. Will stick with my $89.00 T2 for > now. Actually, will probably stay with my older T1. The T2 is just > sitting there taking up space. I just don't like that big padded wheel. Go > figure. I can only talk about the very few wheels I have actually used. The feel of the T2 steering wheel was great -- exactly the same size (and texture) as the excellent Momo steering wheels in the Formula 2000 Basi's at Jim Russel at Tremblant (which I recently had the pleasure of using). Chris

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> >I don't know about the TSW, just saw the picture at the URL. Saw the price > >and bailed pretty quick. Gotta go install my Reactor... > I'm sure many people who looked at the Nissan Skyliner would have done > the same thing - if only they had _driven_ it they could understand what > a HUGE mistake they made..... > 'Nuff said.... > Cheers! > John (a VERY happy TSW owner) > _________________________________ > __ _____| |_____ __ > ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ > \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < > / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ > /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ > http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

Hi John, Thanks,, very well said :) did you catch the "gotta go install my Reactor" bit? No problem with paying $200.00 for a card but the TSW was too high priced? Trev

Isn't a matter of making a mistake. Is more like deciding between driving a Chevrolet and living in a house, or Driving a Nissan Skyliner ( whatever that is ) and living in it as well. Ditto.

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> Hi John, > Thanks,, very well said :) did you catch the "gotta go install my > Reactor" bit? No problem with paying $200.00 for a card but the TSW was > too high priced? > Trev

Notice how I didn't include the whole thread and the signature as well?? Putz. Yes, I am willing to pay $200 for a 4 meg, 3d Rendition accellerator card, but I would not pay $600 for a simular product that someone made out of his garage. Show me one that does the same thing, for 1/3 the price, and you are darn straight I will get that one. The T1 and T2 are both excellent products. Both can be had for 1/3 the price of the TSW. So, given the choice of buying a TSW, or a T2 AND an Reactor card, gee, let me see.... Go figure. Unless you carry my wallet, don't presume to tell me how to spend the money it contains. And like the first post I made said, 'reasonably priced' depends on who is making the comment.

>> If you're looking for a reasonably priced professional wheel, the TSW is >a >> good bet. >Reasonably priced? Well, perhaps for you, but I find the $290+ mentioned >in the above URL to be just a bit pricey. Will stick with my $89.00 T2 for >now. Don't even think about an ECCI CDS then!!! Well worth the money though, IMHO. Stuart -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Oxfordshire, England, UK

Think about what? :-) Seriously, if I had access to one, I might actually like it. As it is, it was pretty hard to justify a $89.00 joystick ( T2 ), there is no way I could justify a $290 one. I buy what I can justify. Now, all I have to do is somehow justify the 17" monitor. The fact that my Reactor just ate my old 14" may just be the answer. " But hun... I just gotta replace ***ia's old monitor " !! Note to all the slow people out there: I said JUSTIFY the expenditure, not afford. Big difference.

1) $600? Where did you get that?! 2) Garage? So what? It's the toughest thing I've ever bought, and if all the software which came from the shiny offices of Microsoft was even HALF as well put together, we'd have an OS that works... 3) No-one's telling you how to spend your money, we're trying to give you options and advise based upon OUR experience. I was in the SAME position as you, and going to buy a T2 and spend the balance on something else. I am VERY glad that I didn't, and I thought that I'd pass this on to you. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

A Corvette and a Skyliner are similarly priced, but they aren't even CLOSE on performance. The BMW 318is is relatively cheap (compared to the Skyliner), looks infinitely better and does a fabulous job. One look at the Skyliner and you'd buy the BMW, one drive of the Skyliner and you'd never even consider buying anything else. Therein lies the analogy.... _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

One test drive in either and the dealer would call the cops on me. Or the wife would shoot me. See, I also feel that it is _unreasonable_ to pay as much for a automobile as you would for a house. Now, if I were able to afford it, I am sure I would feel differently. But then I haven't won the lottery yet.. Robert

1.1) Sorry to have spoken over you head. What I was implying, was that if there were a card out there that cost 3 times as much ( T2 = $89 : TSW = $290 : = approx 3 times as much ) as the reactor, that _I_ would consider that unreasonable cost, and would not purchase it if the $200 card did the job as well. 2.1) So, what has one to do with the other? Didn't know Microsoft made the T2 ( They don't ) and don't know how you managed to drag them into it. Besides, I have the Microsoft Sidewinder ( Standard, as I feel the price asked for the 3D Pro is also unreasonable ) and it's built pretty tough. My OS works fine for me, if yours doesn't, I suggest you find one you are qualified to operate, if there is such a thing. Or better yet, write your own, get rich, so we can hate you as unreasonably as you seem to hate Mr. Gates and his company. Software envy?? Besides, I already bought tough; it is parked in my driveway, and yes, it was considerably more than $290. 3.1) Wasn't the idea of telling me how to spend my money that got to me. Hell, that's the wife's job. But to imply that I was 2 faced ( Won't buy the $290 TSW but will pay $200 for a Reactor ) ticked me off. You decide what is reasonable for you, I decide what is reasonable for me. That is life. Was not a issue of the cost, just what you got for it. My idea of _reasonable_ is basically that if I can get two _excellent_ toys ( don't kid ourselves ) for the price of one, AND have money left over for software, well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Actually, I think it was some other yahoo that ticked me off. That and the fact that Mr. Yahoo felt the need to post the entire thread in his response. So CHEERS! back at ya. Robert

Sorry to have pointed out that your point was made unclearly. I'm sure that someone other than yourself will have grasped it now that you have taken the time to explain it less cryptically. If you can't recognise an analogy, don't expect me to draw you pictures. Robert, where are you getting this aggressive attitude from? I took time, TWICE, to send you information, and have had an ill-concealed tirade of childish abuse. Why is that? Scroll back, see who wrote that message, look for the name "John Wallace", recognise mistake, apologise.... The other "yahoo" is the maker of the TSW, and I guess we must be making different rockets, because THIS rocket scientist is delighted with his TSW. Never mind, we haven't ticked each other off yet, so let's leave it at that. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

> > 1.1) Sorry to have spoken over you head. What I was implying, was > >that if there were a card out there that cost 3 times as much ( T2 = $89 : > >TSW = $290 : = approx 3 times as much ) as the reactor, that _I_ would > >consider that unreasonable cost, and would not purchase it if the $200 card > >did the job as well. Hi John, You might as well give it up<g>! Obviously if this dude cant recognize the diff in quality and perf between a cheap plastic toy and a quality, hand built piece of equipment, you arent going to convince him. His statement above is like comparing a Ferrari to a Chevy Vega, sure they'll both do the same job but which would you rather have :)! We dont need his money anyhow so let him go on thinking that the T2 is a good investment, probably 1/3 of our customers are ex T1/T2 owners<g>! Trev

Yep, that's me. And I drive a cheap, mostly plastic, mass produced Chevrolet P/U. Hell, I even wear mass produced shoes. Can you believe it? Sales must be pretty bad if you have to resort to politician tactics ( don't tell us how good you are, just attack the other guy ). And no, neither you nor your loyal customers will ever convince me to spend $290 on a wheel / pedal combo. It may the best there is, I don't know, and unless someone here locally has one to display, I will never find out. The cash left over. What good is the Ferrari if you can't drive it due to lack of insurance or gas money? Glad to hear it. Wouldn't want you to become a ward of the state because I wouldn't buy your excellent, greatest thing since sliced bread, product. And I didn't say that the T2/T1 was a good investment. Just, to me, a less expensive way to enjoy the games I have.

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> > > 1.1) Sorry to have spoken over you head. What I was implying, was > > >that if there were a card out there that cost 3 times as much ( T2 = $89 : > > >TSW = $290 : = approx 3 times as much ) as the reactor, that _I_ would > > >consider that unreasonable cost, and would not purchase it if the $200 card > > >did the job as well. > Hi John, > You might as well give it up<g>! Obviously if this dude cant recognize > the diff in quality and perf between a cheap plastic toy and a quality, > hand built piece of equipment, you arent going to convince him. > His statement above is like comparing a Ferrari to a Chevy Vega, sure > they'll both do the same job but which would you rather have :)!

Well, you surely all make up for an interesting reading :) Why do you jump at each other throat so easily? And I thought I was aggressive ! I have never posted anything related to this kind ofthreads, since I don't think this is what r.a.c. is about, but I have a few minutes :) The poor guy you are all attacking was making a very true point, I think. He didn't seem to say that the T2 is better than the TSW or whatever, but rather than the T2 has a much more affordable price, and that he can't "waste" 200$ to get a better toy. I understand him because I have the same problem :( Sure I would like to have a Ferrari, but I am not a millionaire, so I have to cope with different priorities. Have fun, Luca

Glad you like it! :-) Got nothin' better to do at the moment! aggressive ! Need the exercise, what with all that sitting down we do. Finally, a kindred soul. problem :( I have never said that the T2 was better than the TSW. I don't have a TSW, so I can't very well judge it's quality. I can read though, and do simple arithmetic, and come to the conclusion that one TOY is 1/3rd the price of the other, and they both perform the same function. The TSW _MAY_ perform this function better, but the increase in performance isn't worth the added $200 for me. Last time I looked, I was still entitled to my own opinion. When I get mine, I'll loan it to ya! Robert

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>>> If you're looking for a reasonably priced professional wheel, the TSW is >>a >>> good bet. >>Reasonably priced? Well, perhaps for you, but I find the $290+ mentioned >>in the above URL to be just a bit pricey. Will stick with my $89.00 T2 for >>now. >Don't even think about an ECCI CDS then!!! Well worth the money >though, IMHO. >Stuart

Nothing I would say over 100$ makes sense just to play 2-3 games on a computer...unless you are millionaire which i am not. I made my own wheel for less than 20$ and am more than happy with it.

> I mean a person has to get his priorities in order...eh. If I spent > 290 dollars US on a steering wheel to play my computer games my fiance > would cut my balls off in the night and hang them from my monitor.... HAHAHA, Definetly know where your coming from here!(grin) Dont think he had one in the first place, not much lost. Sounds like you didnt eat for a few days For the Thrustmaster setup, Kinda of a contradicting yourself. Sounds like you need to be on a flight sim post. btw What brand of wheel are you talking about? -David Gary "If your nose is runnin and your feet smell....you must be upside down"

HEY! You can check this somewhere?! Whereabout? I better keep tabs, I have a tendency to rabbit.... :) Cheers, and enjoy the T2! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

> >Last time I looked, I was still entitled to my own opinion. > HEY! You can check this somewhere?! Whereabout? I better keep tabs, I > have a tendency to rabbit.... :) Saw it on the back of a can of Billy Beer. Or was that a bathroom wall....... Oh well, about the same thing. Man, wish Nascar 2 would hurry up and get here so I can put this T2 to a good use. Can't have these cheap plastic toys just sitting around doing nothin'. That's my job! ;-) Robert

Geez the more things change the more they stay the same....elitism at its best.... Hey I can do you one better I got the cheaper GP1 and I love it....neaner neaner neaner....<G> Is this a trick question...? The Vega of course. I mean a person has to get his priorities in order...eh. If I spent 290 dollars US on a steering wheel to play my computer games my fiance would cut my balls off in the night and hang them from my monitor.... Actually with an attitude like that you have just lost another...I dont like elitist companies who try to make me feel insignificant because I wont forgo a few meals to buy their product. Of course you probably will say that I wouldnt have ever bought your product....umm lets see I have approx. 350 dollars US invested in TM flight sim products....nah your right Im not the kind of individual that spends money on fun.....insult away. And to me the GP1 was a terrific buy because it doesnt force me to make a big commitment to a side of my sim playing thats not as *** as the flight sim side. At least not yet.... Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

>>Don't even think about an ECCI CDS then!!! Well worth the money >>though, IMHO. >Nothing I would say over 100$ makes sense just to play 2-3 games on a >computer...unless you are millionaire which i am not. I made my own >wheel for less than 20$ and am more than happy with it. That's fine! I, on the other hand, wanted a top of the range prebuilt piece of kit. It really all depends on how much value the individual puts on the item. I'm not a millionaire (yet! d8-) but after all the money I've invested in my computer (I use them professionally too) I didn't mind spending a considerable amount on a computer-sim driving system that I felt was worth the price. I haven't regretted buying the top of the range wheel, or paying what I did rather, once during the year that I've owned the wheel. Given the amount of time I've spent playing these 2-3 games over the year I've had good value for money. I did once think about spending a stack of cash on a set of TM flight gear. But I hardly ever play flight-sims. Now that wouldn't have made any sense. Glad you like your home built wheel (the satisfaction of building that must be something - I wouldn't know where to start!), Stuart -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Oxfordshire, England, UK

Actually its possible that I may feel the need to upgrade if just for the feel of something close to a real steering wheel...but that is a ways off and the Thrustmaster GP1 is filling the bill rather nicely now. Nah just snuck it by her in bits and pieces....uh honey Im jus gonna buy this here joystick...hehe its "only" 85.00 dollars....next month uh honey lookee here this throttle only costs 110.00dollars really its no big deal eh? A one time purchase of a steering wheel for 290.00 is gonna be trickier....uh honey look at this wheel isnt it great....booom. Damn honey why did ya have to hit me in the store... Oh dont worry Im usually on the flight sim side of things...thats where my heart lies...but have to tell you the Thrustmaster GP1 has really made GP2 alot of fun and the time I spend on it has been increasing day by day...Finally did a lap around Monza at 1minute 25 seconds....so feeling real good about the GP1....with a joystick I had to have the autobrakes on and the sim just wasnt that much fun...remembering braking and turn in points is a blast. Now I realize that my time at Monza is no great shakes but last week I was going around it at 1minute 31 seconds....softened up the suspension and away it went. I want to get down to the 21's Pierre Legrand PAPA DOC Damage, Inc. Infamous Flanker Pilot...<G>

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> <major snipage> > > I mean a person has to get his priorities in order...eh. If I spent > > 290 dollars US on a steering wheel to play my computer games my fiance > > would cut my balls off in the night and hang them from my monitor.... > <more snipage> > Sounds like you should spend your $290 on a new fiance.

I would go ahead and cut them off myself and duct tape them to my monitor, that way, before she gets any bright ideas, you can say......NANANY***OO!!!!!

Sounds like you should spend your $290 on a new fiance.

> > I mean a person has to get his priorities in order...eh. If I spent > > 290 dollars US on a steering wheel to play my computer games my fiance > > would cut my balls off in the night and hang them from my monitor.... > Sounds like you should spend your $290 on a new fiance. Where can I get the catalog? Or is there a 800 number? Or was that a 900 number?? :-)

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> <major snipage> > > I mean a person has to get his priorities in order...eh. If I spent > > 290 dollars US on a steering wheel to play my computer games my fiance > > would cut my balls off in the night and hang them from my monitor.... > <more snipage> > Sounds like you should spend your $290 on a new fiance.

I second this. Sounds like your fiancee has you wraped around her (I hope it is a her!) finger.

hehe Nah 4.0 thru college, top of the computer science department senior year college, in grad school.....nah think I will keep the inexpensive steering wheel and the fiance....a man has to plan for retirement you know....<G> PAPA DOC

P.Doc, Sounds like you might be able to afford to quit your job and stay home and race all day on any wheel you like before long! Good Luck!! 1J

Umm let me go check.........Papa Doc returns hours later....yup its a her....<VBG> A really really smart her....and she likes computers....and she is really really smart about them...can you say lucky...<VBG>...really really lucky....<VBG> Cheap steering wheel it is....then. Pierre Legrand PAPA DOC Damage, Inc. Infamous Flanker Pilot...<VBG>