Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox. Now I've already said I dislike
the pricing model of iRacing intensely, and that I really object to
having to drive vehicles I have zero interest in, then pay -- when I'm
allowed -- to add decent vehicles & tracks.
So can someone explain to me why I've spent the last hour reading about
iRacing and watching youtube clips? Would it hurt to spend $20 and put a
toe in the water? Ok it'd be to drive a vehicle that looks & drives like
a tank, around tracks I've never driven before. And chances are I'd never
even go online with it... just do some offline circuits -- GPL demo style
-- to see what all the fuss is about.
My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out
regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions
in life. You'll never get your money's worth... and you were always a
lousy driver anyway. The best that can happen is that you get addicted
and spend the next few months watching your penalty points clock up,
dooming you to drive in an eternal limbo of newbie races while others
zoom up the rankings and witter on about how they were once in a race
with someone who got out of the way for a Real Race Driver(TM).
It's just not a product aimed at enthusiastic, but fundamentally
untalented racers like you! Stick to rFactor when you need a racing fix,
or LFS when you want to contribute to never-ending product development,
or GTR2 when you want to listen to amazing engine noises.
But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better
delete that invite quickly!
Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much
Notable threadAndrew MacPherson weighs whether to subscribe to iRacing
After receiving an invitation, Andrew MacPherson asked for help resisting iRacing despite disliking its pricing and rookie cars. Uwe Schürkamp regretted his six-month subscription, Alan Bernardo found it too structured, and Tony Rickard argued its strength was organised, skill-matched pickup racing for drivers without leagues. The long thread covered value for money, owning versus renting software, safety rating penalties for going off track, and whether automated fault assignment is possible.
Automated summary.
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
> My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out
> regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions
> in life.
You are absolutely correct so just use some self control and say no. I
won't even pay a monthyly fee for a game like WoW for the same reasojns you
state. If I was going to pay a monthyly fee for a game I think I would
rather fork out the dough for something like WoW rather than a racing sim.
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:34 +0100 (BST), Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better
> delete that invite quickly!
>
> Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much
Hi Andy,
for now resist the urge to shell out money as iR just ain't GPL
(yet). I'm not saying it won't be in the not too distant future, but I
regretted shelling out 60 Euros for a six month subscription after
experiencing boredom and frustration again... in a skippy
race. Initially, I really liked the feel of these cars, but being
penalized when trying to catch up with somebody in a race for putting
a wheel a pubic hair's width over the kerbs, or being punted off the
track without any fault of your own (it still happens in skippy races,
though not as often as in the milk truck league) eventually led to the
"same old, same old" feeling I experienced too often for my tastes
during two years of beta testing.
Fascinating new stuff is at the horizon with iracing, but for now, I
can only recommend you try it for a month so your eventual loss won't
be too big.
One thing that only struck me later is that I won't be able to "sell"
iR if I find I don't like it. I'm entitled to race until xmas, but its
resale value is zero.
All the best, Uwe
--
Well I've gotta say....
I just watched a dozen videos on youtube of iRacing and to be honest
it looks pretty much exactly the same as rFactor to me except for 4 (four)
things that I noticed;
1) Realistic head movement / look to apex functionality (seems to be
missing?)
2) Tons of free mods - not available
3) Unlimited free online and offline racing - $$
4) Ability to race ANY car you want to race ANYTIME you want to race it ;)
I just don't "get" what the fuss is about??
So I MUST be missing something.
And maybe
5) as Uwe mentioned if you ever decided you wanted to sell - the value =
ZERO
0-0-0-0-0
"Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4875e6b6$0$11102$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (32 lines)
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:34 +0100 (BST), Andrew MacPherson wrote: > >> But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better >> delete that invite quickly! >> >> Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much > > Hi Andy, > > for now resist the urge to shell out money as iR just ain't GPL > (yet). I'm not saying it won't be in the not too distant future, but I > regretted shelling out 60 Euros for a six month subscription after > experiencing boredom and frustration again... in a skippy > race. Initially, I really liked the feel of these cars, but being > penalized when trying to catch up with somebody in a race for putting > a wheel a pubic hair's width over the kerbs, or being punted off the > track without any fault of your own (it still happens in skippy races, > though not as often as in the milk truck league) eventually led to the > "same old, same old" feeling I experienced too often for my tastes > during two years of beta testing. > > Fascinating new stuff is at the horizon with iracing, but for now, I > can only recommend you try it for a month so your eventual loss won't > be too big. > > One thing that only struck me later is that I won't be able to "sell" > iR if I find I don't like it. I'm entitled to race until xmas, but its > resale value is zero. > > All the best, Uwe > > --
"Jim Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4Djdk.89088$gc5.88878@pd7urf2no...
What the fuck are you going in here then?
Quoted text (12 lines)
> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > >> My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out >> regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions >> in life. > > You are absolutely correct so just use some self control and say no. I > won't even pay a monthyly fee for a game like WoW for the same reasojns > you > state. If I was going to pay a monthyly fee for a game I think I would > rather fork out the dough for something like WoW rather than a racing sim.[email hidden] (Uwe Sch�rkamp) wrote:
> for now resist the urge to shell out money
Uwe, over the years I've generally found myself on the same wavelength as
you over many different matters, so your thoughts are very welcome...
especially when they tell me to do what my head's already telling me. :-)
> One thing that only struck me later is that I won't be able to
> "sell" iR if I find I don't like it.
Normally that doesn't worry me. I rarely re-sell games or books because
to do that dilutes the author's income, and I like to see creative people
rewarded well for their efforts.
The same goes for iRacing. A huge part of me *really* wants it to take
off and succeed, even if I personally can't (or won't!) justify the
overall and ongoing cost. But you could spend quite a lot of money buying
every bolt-on for the sim, and then find you haven't got the time to
commit to it for one reason or another.
I can absolutely understand the subscription for serious online racing,
but I really think they need to separate that from the cars & tracks
somehow. Sell me all the stuff to race offline (or on non-iRacing,
GPL-style servers) for $100-$150, with an ongoing $5 a month for access
to updates and I might be tempted. But...
But I'm in danger of going over old ground. This has been talked to death,
and I'm not adding anything useful to it! :-)
I still want to try iRacing, but I really do have to be sensible. The
basic package doesn't get me anything I want to drive, I'm not as
committed to sim racing as I was ten years ago, and this product is not
suited to someone like myself who maximises a relatively low monthly wage
by being very careful what he spends on a routine basis. I'm *great* at
saving for things I really want or need, but not very good at committing
to things which steadily syphon money from my account... especially when
it's something which I might not have time to get value out of every
month.
Having said all that about being careful with money, I just invested
�6.19 on a second hand copy of Ishmael at Amazon. You* recommended it to
me a looooong time ago, and talking to you has reminded me -- yet again!
-- that it's still on my 'must read' list.
Ok, time to shut up. ;-) Thanks again for the advice.
Andrew McP
*I'm sure it was you, apologies if my memory's playing tricks.
[email hidden] (0-0-0-0-0) wrote:
> I just watched a dozen videos on youtube of iRacing and
> to be honest it looks pretty much exactly the same as
> rFactor to me
I watched a couple of Solstice races (I think) which really got my juices
running. My main problem with most of them though is that I burst out
laughing whenever I see that Legends car. I guess it must mean something
historically to those in the USA, but I can't imagine how anyone ever
thought that was a good shape for a racing car! I'd feel embarrassed
sitting inside one, even online in front of complete strangers. :-)
To be completely fair though, the Solstice looks more entertaining and
almost like a proper racing car... even if it weighs almost as much as
the average moon. I might enjoy driving that for a while even though it's
the open-wheelers I'd want to get my hands on ASAP.
Andrew McP
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
I tried it for a month. But come renew time I don't think I'm going to
continue with it. I don't like the cost and everything is too "high-brow"
for me. There's too much of things like, "I got touched by another guy now
my rating is going to suffer!" And things are a bit too structured for my
tastes. If I'm going to spend so much a month, why is it that I can't get
some of my buds together, get on a server, and race without ratings and all
the rest of the stuff they have?
I'm paying a monthly fee but I'm being led about as if I were a dog on a
leash.
Boo-hoo.
I'll take rFactor, LFS, GTR2, etc., and race without having to pay a fee,
and leave all the elitists to do their own thing.
Alan
Quoted text (29 lines)
> Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox. Now I've already said I dislike > the pricing model of iRacing intensely, and that I really object to > having to drive vehicles I have zero interest in, then pay -- when I'm > allowed -- to add decent vehicles & tracks. > > So can someone explain to me why I've spent the last hour reading about > iRacing and watching youtube clips? Would it hurt to spend $20 and put a > toe in the water? Ok it'd be to drive a vehicle that looks & drives like > a tank, around tracks I've never driven before. And chances are I'd never > even go online with it... just do some offline circuits -- GPL demo style > -- to see what all the fuss is about. > > My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out > regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions > in life. You'll never get your money's worth... and you were always a > lousy driver anyway. The best that can happen is that you get addicted > and spend the next few months watching your penalty points clock up, > dooming you to drive in an eternal limbo of newbie races while others > zoom up the rankings and witter on about how they were once in a race > with someone who got out of the way for a Real Race Driver(TM). > It's just not a product aimed at enthusiastic, but fundamentally > untalented racers like you! Stick to rFactor when you need a racing fix, > or LFS when you want to contribute to never-ending product development, > or GTR2 when you want to listen to amazing engine noises. > > But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better > delete that invite quickly! > > Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much
"David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message
news:hvpdk.49557$[email hidden]...
Okay-- are you going to start making some sense soon?
Alan
Quoted text (18 lines)
> > "Jim Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4Djdk.89088$gc5.88878@pd7urf2no... >> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in >> news:[email hidden]: >> >>> My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out >>> regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions >>> in life. >> >> You are absolutely correct so just use some self control and say no. I >> won't even pay a monthyly fee for a game like WoW for the same reasojns >> you >> state. If I was going to pay a monthyly fee for a game I think I would >> rather fork out the dough for something like WoW rather than a racing >> sim. > > What the fuck are you going in here then?0-0-0-0-0 wrote:
But... but... but you don't have to install lots of mods and patches and
shit... it's so... easy... ;) SCNR
l8er
ronny
Quoted text (14 lines)
> Well I've gotta say.... > > I just watched a dozen videos on youtube of iRacing and to be honest > it looks pretty much exactly the same as rFactor to me except for 4 (four) > things that I noticed; > > 1) Realistic head movement / look to apex functionality (seems to be > missing?) > 2) Tons of free mods - not available > 3) Unlimited free online and offline racing - $$ > 4) Ability to race ANY car you want to race ANYTIME you want to race it ;) > > I just don't "get" what the fuss is about?? > So I MUST be missing something.Quoted text (45 lines)
> > And maybe > 5) as Uwe mentioned if you ever decided you wanted to sell - the value = > ZERO > > 0-0-0-0-0 > > > > > "Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4875e6b6$0$11102$[email hidden]... >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:34 +0100 (BST), Andrew MacPherson wrote: >> >>> But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better >>> delete that invite quickly! >>> >>> Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much >> Hi Andy, >> >> for now resist the urge to shell out money as iR just ain't GPL >> (yet). I'm not saying it won't be in the not too distant future, but I >> regretted shelling out 60 Euros for a six month subscription after >> experiencing boredom and frustration again... in a skippy >> race. Initially, I really liked the feel of these cars, but being >> penalized when trying to catch up with somebody in a race for putting >> a wheel a pubic hair's width over the kerbs, or being punted off the >> track without any fault of your own (it still happens in skippy races, >> though not as often as in the milk truck league) eventually led to the >> "same old, same old" feeling I experienced too often for my tastes >> during two years of beta testing. >> >> Fascinating new stuff is at the horizon with iracing, but for now, I >> can only recommend you try it for a month so your eventual loss won't >> be too big. >> >> One thing that only struck me later is that I won't be able to "sell" >> iR if I find I don't like it. I'm entitled to race until xmas, but its >> resale value is zero. >> >> All the best, Uwe >> >> -- > >"David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in
news:hvpdk.49557$[email hidden]:
>
> What the fuck are you going in here then?
Um, gee, let's see now.
GTL
GTR2
LFS
rFactor
Race07
F1 Challenge '99-02'
Need some more to validate my posting to this group?
I rarely find myself disagreeing with ya bud, but on this one?
Exactly when has a used game been worth anything anyway? There is one, and
only one example I can think of and thats NR2003 during the days when it was
selling for $150 on eBait.
If you pay $20 for say rFactor, then try to sell it, someone might take it
off your hands for $2. And we won't get into the copy protection/online
activation issues that would crop up.
It should also be mentioned that anything you buy in iRacing is yours
forever. If you leave the service then come back later, it will still be
yours. They don't take it away if you leave for a while.
-Larry
"Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4875e6b6$0$11102$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> One thing that only struck me later is that I won't be able to "sell" > iR if I find I don't like it. I'm entitled to race until xmas, but its > resale value is zero. > > All the best, Uwe > > --"Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Ebqdk.210150$[email hidden]...
> I tried it for a month. But come renew time I don't think I'm going to
> continue with it. I don't like the cost and everything is too "high-brow"
> for me.
Aha! That's my problem, and why I'm so slow! I'm driving around with my
nose stuck up in the air :)
> There's too much of things like, "I got touched by another guy now my
> rating is going to suffer!"
Understandable, but yes it is getting old. Having someone else take away
something you worked very hard for is hard to swallow. We will see this
with every new group as they come in until they settle down. After a while
reality will set in and for that group this too shall pass. I hope :)
> And things are a bit too structured for my tastes. If I'm going to spend
> so much a month, why is it that I can't get some of my buds together, get
> on a server, and race without ratings and all the rest of the stuff they
> have?
That's not what iRacing is about, and one of the primary reasons it's not
for everyone. Club racing IS on the board/being considered, but there are
bigger fish to fry right now I suspect.
> I'm paying a monthly fe but I'm being led about as if I were a dog on a
> leash.
Ah, come on man. Really. iRacing rules are no different/worse than rules
the real drivers have to contend with.
> I'll take rFactor, LFS, GTR2, etc., and race without having to pay a fee,
> and leave all the elitists to do their own thing.
LOL!
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:iTrdk.17618$[email hidden]...
I know, Larry. I do appreciate the invite but the thing is not for me. As
far as the "dog on the leash reference", I was referring to having to race
what they say and when they say it. I wasn't talking about the contact
rules, which are pretty fair. I think a driver can have a bit of contact
and still progress.
The thing that bothers me is that though I'm paying a monthly fee, I cannot
just start my own server, invite some friends, and race the car and track
that I want to, without ratings and contact rules. I think that if they
added this to the options, they'd get thousands of more subscribers.
Alan
Quoted text (38 lines)
> "Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ebqdk.210150$[email hidden]... > >> I tried it for a month. But come renew time I don't think I'm going to >> continue with it. I don't like the cost and everything is too >> "high-brow" for me. > > Aha! That's my problem, and why I'm so slow! I'm driving around with my > nose stuck up in the air :) > >> There's too much of things like, "I got touched by another guy now my >> rating is going to suffer!" > > Understandable, but yes it is getting old. Having someone else take away > something you worked very hard for is hard to swallow. We will see this > with every new group as they come in until they settle down. After a > while reality will set in and for that group this too shall pass. I hope > :) > >> And things are a bit too structured for my tastes. If I'm going to spend >> so much a month, why is it that I can't get some of my buds together, get >> on a server, and race without ratings and all the rest of the stuff they >> have? > > That's not what iRacing is about, and one of the primary reasons it's not > for everyone. Club racing IS on the board/being considered, but there are > bigger fish to fry right now I suspect. > >> I'm paying a monthly fe but I'm being led about as if I were a dog on a >> leash. > > Ah, come on man. Really. iRacing rules are no different/worse than rules > the real drivers have to contend with. > >> I'll take rFactor, LFS, GTR2, etc., and race without having to pay a fee, >> and leave all the elitists to do their own thing. > > LOL![email hidden] (Alan Bernardo) wrote:
> The thing that bothers me is that though I'm paying a
> monthly fee, I cannot just start my own server, invite
> some friends, and race the car and track that I want to,
> without ratings and contact rules. I think that if
> they added this to the options, they'd get thousands
> of more subscribers.
I think that would be a brilliant step forward eventually. However I do
think, on reflection, that where we're going wrong is not taking iRacing
seriously enough. It is not -- as we've been told countless times before
-- intended for the casual gaming market... and that includes most of us
these days, no matter how much we might like to think we're still
hardcore future champions. :-)
By sticking to its principles iRacing may well make itself a very serious
product for very serious racers, and anyone used to paying for real world
racing (even semi-regular carting outings) will hardly notice the costs
involved. They and iRacing will hopefully do us all an indirect favour
eventually, by making sim racing a more serious subject. That can only
lead to better sims and more fun in the long term.
Andrew McP
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> I watched a couple of Solstice races (I think) which really got my juices
> running. My main problem with most of them though is that I burst out
> laughing whenever I see that Legends car. I guess it must mean something
> historically to those in the USA, but I can't imagine how anyone ever
> thought that was a good shape for a racing car! I'd feel embarrassed
> sitting inside one, even online in front of complete strangers. :-)
The Legends are a hoot to drive but like you I don't feel like I am in a
real car!
> To be completely fair though, the Solstice looks more entertaining and
> almost like a proper racing car... even if it weighs almost as much as
> the average moon. I might enjoy driving that for a while even though it's
> the open-wheelers I'd want to get my hands on ASAP.
If you are into road racing and you want to trial iRacing you really
need to buy the Skippy so make that $35. The Skip Barber is excellent
and will make you just want to go and drive it GPL demo style IMHO.
iRacing is a very good simulator - the best in my view, however it
doesn't make everything else redundant. There are some great historic
racing sims/mods which the lack of fidelity compared to iracing actually
works well jumping from one to the other. For sheer brutal performance
iRacing doesn't provide a top end car yet.
Arrive & drive (pick up in olden day terms) racing is very good,
although scheduled weekly racing with a defined registered group of
drivers is better provided in Race2Play or a league.
For the sim racing addict it is a must have along with the likes of
GTR2, Race07 & rFactor for its quality online racing on tap and training
capability of the quality modelled cars & tracks.
For the casual sim racer it may not seem such good value, only you can
judge that.
The only thing I would stress is that driving teh Solstice alone does
not do it justice.
Cheers
Tony
Alan Bernardo wrote:
> The thing that bothers me is that though I'm paying a monthly fee, I cannot
> just start my own server, invite some friends, and race the car and track
> that I want to, without ratings and contact rules. I think that if they
> added this to the options, they'd get thousands of more subscribers.
One of the key features of iRacing is organising drivers together on
track so drivers can turn up and race any time. This won't be a major
appeal to those used to organising their own events, but for getting
more people in to sim racing without needing to get invited into a
league or commit to a schedule iRacing would seem to have a formula for
attracting subscribers which fragmenting drivers across many leagues
would work against.
I actually think iRacing is a more complementary product than I first
expected. It sits nicely on my HD alongside the historic mods for GTR2 &
rFactor.
Cheers
Tony
"Andrew MacPherson"...
> Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox. <snip>
> Would it hurt to spend $20 and put a toe in the
> water? <snip>
Sit tight, McP, I've got some vacation coming up in two weeks and I'm gonna
spend the $20 to see what Franky was raving about...
Jan.
=---
[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote:
> The only thing I would stress is that driving the
> Solstice alone does not do it justice.
Which is part of my frustration with the project. In order to have a
decent drive, the first thing I'd need to do is fork out some more money
over and above the basic package. Whether that's fair or not is neither
here nor there... iRacing is a commercial product after all, and who am I
to tell them how to run their business? But this kind of approach just
rubs me up the wrong way, making me less likely to take a chance.
In time I may mellow though. The trouble with strongly held viewpoints is
they require effort to maintain, and I don't have all the energy I used
to. :-)
Andrew McP
"Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Ebqdk.210150$[email hidden]...
Nice snide swipe at the iRacing community there.
>If I'm going to spend so much a month
You must be poor if you think 20 bucks is a lot. Or just a tight arse.
Quoted text (49 lines)
> > "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox. Now I've already said I dislike >> the pricing model of iRacing intensely, and that I really object to >> having to drive vehicles I have zero interest in, then pay -- when I'm >> allowed -- to add decent vehicles & tracks. >> >> So can someone explain to me why I've spent the last hour reading about >> iRacing and watching youtube clips? Would it hurt to spend $20 and put a >> toe in the water? Ok it'd be to drive a vehicle that looks & drives like >> a tank, around tracks I've never driven before. And chances are I'd never >> even go online with it... just do some offline circuits -- GPL demo style >> -- to see what all the fuss is about. >> >> My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out >> regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions >> in life. You'll never get your money's worth... and you were always a >> lousy driver anyway. The best that can happen is that you get addicted >> and spend the next few months watching your penalty points clock up, >> dooming you to drive in an eternal limbo of newbie races while others >> zoom up the rankings and witter on about how they were once in a race >> with someone who got out of the way for a Real Race Driver(TM). >> It's just not a product aimed at enthusiastic, but fundamentally >> untalented racers like you! Stick to rFactor when you need a racing fix, >> or LFS when you want to contribute to never-ending product development, >> or GTR2 when you want to listen to amazing engine noises. >> >> But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better >> delete that invite quickly! >> >> Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much > > I tried it for a month. But come renew time I don't think I'm going to > continue with it. I don't like the cost and everything is too "high-brow" > for me. There's too much of things like, "I got touched by another guy > now my rating is going to suffer!" And things are a bit too structured > for my tastes. If I'm going to spend so much a month, why is it that I > can't get some of my buds together, get on a server, and race without > ratings and all the rest of the stuff they have? > > I'm paying a monthly fee but I'm being led about as if I were a dog on a > leash. > > Boo-hoo. > > I'll take rFactor, LFS, GTR2, etc., and race without having to pay a fee, > and leave all the elitists to do their own thing. >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:AMrdk.17617$[email hidden]:
>
> If you pay $20 for say rFactor, then try to sell it, someone might
> take it off your hands for $2. And we won't get into the copy
> protection/online activation issues that would crop up.
You can buy rFactor boxed version for twenty bucks at WalMart. Boxed
version requires no activation.
Don't forget, when you subscribe you get iRacing $$$ to spend. If you sign
up for a year you get $60, and that will buy you 4 cars (IIRC @ $15 each).
Or a car or two and a track or two. I think tracks are $15 to $25.
I don't think monthly gets you much in the way of iRacing $$$ though, so
after the first month it's best to either do it or not and go for the year.
It's only $13 a month for full year plus you get the $60 in iRacing $$$.
Typically you should have raced your way OUT of the Solstice and Legends
cars by then, and ready to spend your $60 iRacing dollars on the cars for
the next level.
There is a method to the madness :)
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (18 lines)
> [email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > >> The only thing I would stress is that driving the >> Solstice alone does not do it justice. > > Which is part of my frustration with the project. In order to have a > decent drive, the first thing I'd need to do is fork out some more money > over and above the basic package. Whether that's fair or not is neither > here nor there... iRacing is a commercial product after all, and who am I > to tell them how to run their business? But this kind of approach just > rubs me up the wrong way, making me less likely to take a chance. > > In time I may mellow though. The trouble with strongly held viewpoints is > they require effort to maintain, and I don't have all the energy I used > to. :-) > > Andrew McP >Missed my point. You still can't sell it for much later on.
-Larry
"Guy de Montmorency-Laval" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:O0Gdk.70020$Jx.69636@pd7urf1no...
Quoted text (9 lines)
> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:AMrdk.17617$[email hidden]: > >> >> If you pay $20 for say rFactor, then try to sell it, someone might >> take it off your hands for $2. And we won't get into the copy >> protection/online activation issues that would crop up. > > You can buy rFactor boxed version for twenty bucks at WalMart. Boxed > version requires no activation.On Jul 10, 2:37 pm, [email hidden] (Andrew
MacPherson) wrote:
I agree with you 100%. I share your view that they are taking this
very seriously. Unfortunately, I think that is why it may ultimately
have to become more of a stand alone product, or fail. I don't think
they will ever get the numbers of subscribers they need @ $15 USD a
month to support further development.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > I think that would be a brilliant step forward eventually. However I do > think, on reflection, that where we're going wrong is not taking iRacing > seriously enough. It is not -- as we've been told countless times before > -- intended for the casual gaming market... and that includes most of us > these days, no matter how much we might like to think we're still > hardcore future champions. :-) > > Andrew McP"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:pUHdk.20166$%[email hidden]:
> Missed my point. You still can't sell it for much later on.
>
> -Larry
Why would I want to? I have both Trymedia and boxed version (came with
TrackIR) of rFactor and have no intention to sell either.
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:57:02 -0400, Larry wrote:
> Missed my point. You still can't sell it for much later on.
>
But I can n0t haz a box on my shelf added to my collection of sim
titles (lolcat speak intended ;-), re-install it three years down the
road when the mood strikes me, all that. Not possible with iR in its
current state (ok, I got the "thank you" stickers for the beta test,
but well, would you stick them on a 10 year old Ford Mondeo hatchback?
;-)
I don't consider this an investment like owning n2k3 turned out to be,
but I'm just "licensing stuff" which will be taken away from me the
minute my subscription runs out. Granted it's there when I choose to
sign up again, but somehow that's just not the same as having a nice
DVD case to look at and to dust off every once in a while.
Uwe
--
hoover wrote:
> I don't consider this an investment like owning n2k3 turned out to be,
> but I'm just "licensing stuff" which will be taken away from me the
> minute my subscription runs out. Granted it's there when I choose to
> sign up again, but somehow that's just not the same as having a nice
> DVD case to look at and to dust off every once in a while.
I guess like album covers will become a thing of the past...
On the investment side I think the opposite, NR2003 didn't have the
ongoing development that iRacing will have. Once the boxed product hits
the shelf who knows what project the developers will work on next and
what deal will be struck with publishers. iRacing feels like getting on
board with the developers and a long term relationship building between
sim racers and a development team. I guess only time will tell.
Cheers
Tony
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:zTHdk.20165$%[email hidden]...
Yes there is a method to the madness..... it's called trying to turn a
profit.
--
Quoted text (17 lines)
> Don't forget, when you subscribe you get iRacing $$$ to spend. If you > sign up for a year you get $60, and that will buy you 4 cars (IIRC @ $15 > each). Or a car or two and a track or two. I think tracks are $15 to $25. > > I don't think monthly gets you much in the way of iRacing $$$ though, so > after the first month it's best to either do it or not and go for the > year. It's only $13 a month for full year plus you get the $60 in iRacing > $$$. > > Typically you should have raced your way OUT of the Solstice and Legends > cars by then, and ready to spend your $60 iRacing dollars on the cars for > the next level. > > There is a method to the madness :) > > -Larry >
Someone should also mention that if iRacing ISN'T there anymore......
your stuff aint there anymore either!
It's like a speculation investment ;)
"hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4877b28c$0$11107$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (21 lines)
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:57:02 -0400, Larry wrote: >> Missed my point. You still can't sell it for much later on. >> > > But I can n0t haz a box on my shelf added to my collection of sim > titles (lolcat speak intended ;-), re-install it three years down the > road when the mood strikes me, all that. Not possible with iR in its > current state (ok, I got the "thank you" stickers for the beta test, > but well, would you stick them on a 10 year old Ford Mondeo hatchback? > ;-) > > I don't consider this an investment like owning n2k3 turned out to be, > but I'm just "licensing stuff" which will be taken away from me the > minute my subscription runs out. Granted it's there when I choose to > sign up again, but somehow that's just not the same as having a nice > DVD case to look at and to dust off every once in a while. > > Uwe > > > --[email hidden] (0-0-0-0-0) wrote:
> Yes there is a method to the madness..... it's called
> trying to turn a profit.
To be fair that's hardly a crime. Without profit there's no product. The
hard part for them is finding a balance which will draw in enough people
to make the product work for he long term, not just a year or two while
the top end enthusiasts are eager to support the current price structure.
I'm fairly sure they will eventually have to work out a two-tier system
which allows cheaper, mass access to open servers. Then you can build up
a big pool from which drivers can be inspired to pay more to join the
serious racers.
At this stage though that won't be important to iRacing, because they'll
still be living off the development capital.
Andrew McP
I'm more than happy to speculate and invest my money in the only decent
racing sim since 1998 :)
--
Scott Moore
Western Dirt Racing Association
http://www.wdra.net
"0-0-0-0-0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2XRdk.71530$Jx.66112@pd7urf1no...
>
> Someone should also mention that if iRacing ISN'T there anymore......
> your stuff aint there anymore either!
>
> It's like a speculation investment ;)
>
>
> "hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:4877b28c$0$11107$[email hidden]...
>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:57:02 -0400, Larry wrote:
>>> Missed my point. You still can't sell it for much later on.
>>>
>>
>> But I can n0t haz a box on my shelf added to my collection of sim
>> titles (lolcat speak intended ;-), re-install it three years down the
>> road when the mood strikes me, all that. Not possible with iR in its
>> current state (ok, I got the "thank you" stickers for the beta test,
>> but well, would you stick them on a 10 year old Ford Mondeo hatchback?
>> ;-)
>>
>> I don't consider this an investment like owning n2k3 turned out to be,
>> but I'm just "licensing stuff" which will be taken away from me the
>> minute my subscription runs out. Granted it's there when I choose to
>> sign up again, but somehow that's just not the same as having a nice
>> DVD case to look at and to dust off every once in a while.
>>
>> Uwe
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
"Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> I'm more than happy to speculate and invest my money in the only decent
> racing sim since 1998 :)
Yep, me too. Happy to leave the losers to their online rF crash-fests.
Quoted text (42 lines)
> > -- > Scott Moore > Western Dirt Racing Association > http://www.wdra.net > > > "0-0-0-0-0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2XRdk.71530$Jx.66112@pd7urf1no... >> >> Someone should also mention that if iRacing ISN'T there anymore...... >> your stuff aint there anymore either! >> >> It's like a speculation investment ;) >> >> >> "hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:4877b28c$0$11107$[email hidden]... >>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:57:02 -0400, Larry wrote: >>>> Missed my point. You still can't sell it for much later on. >>>> >>> >>> But I can n0t haz a box on my shelf added to my collection of sim >>> titles (lolcat speak intended ;-), re-install it three years down the >>> road when the mood strikes me, all that. Not possible with iR in its >>> current state (ok, I got the "thank you" stickers for the beta test, >>> but well, would you stick them on a 10 year old Ford Mondeo hatchback? >>> ;-) >>> >>> I don't consider this an investment like owning n2k3 turned out to be, >>> but I'm just "licensing stuff" which will be taken away from me the >>> minute my subscription runs out. Granted it's there when I choose to >>> sign up again, but somehow that's just not the same as having a nice >>> DVD case to look at and to dust off every once in a while. >>> >>> Uwe >>> >>> >>> -- >> >> >
"btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
On Jul 10, 2:37 pm, [email hidden] (Andrew
MacPherson) wrote:
And that's based on what data?
Quoted text (15 lines)
>> >> I think that would be a brilliant step forward eventually. However I do >> think, on reflection, that where we're going wrong is not taking iRacing >> seriously enough. It is not -- as we've been told countless times before >> -- intended for the casual gaming market... and that includes most of us >> these days, no matter how much we might like to think we're still >> hardcore future champions. :-) >> >> Andrew McP > I agree with you 100%. I share your view that they are taking this > very seriously. Unfortunately, I think that is why it may ultimately > have to become more of a stand alone product, or fail. I don't think > they will ever get the numbers of subscribers they need @ $15 USD a > month to support further development.I do not recall saying that it was a crime, I was merely stating the
obvious.
I like your idea of a two-tier system... maybe something akin to "Pro
Series" - "Amateur Series"
( with differing and appropriate pricing models )
0-0-0-0-0
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (19 lines)
> [email hidden] (0-0-0-0-0) wrote: > >> Yes there is a method to the madness..... it's called >> trying to turn a profit. > > To be fair that's hardly a crime. Without profit there's no product. The > hard part for them is finding a balance which will draw in enough people > to make the product work for he long term, not just a year or two while > the top end enthusiasts are eager to support the current price structure. > > I'm fairly sure they will eventually have to work out a two-tier system > which allows cheaper, mass access to open servers. Then you can build up > a big pool from which drivers can be inspired to pay more to join the > serious racers. > > At this stage though that won't be important to iRacing, because they'll > still be living off the development capital. > > Andrew McP
"David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message
news:nwYdk.130586$[email hidden]...
I don't think it's based on any observable data. It's based on the idea
that most folks that race online are not good enough or don't have the
patience of the few. I still think that a committment of $156 for a year,
without the user having the ability to create his own server and race with
whomever he wants, is a bit steep.
If they don't change that, membership will probably drop off, after the
novelty has worn, leaving only the select few to race in their own world,
without intervention from the commoner.
Alan
Quoted text (22 lines)
> > "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > On Jul 10, 2:37 pm, [email hidden] (Andrew > MacPherson) wrote: >>> >>> I think that would be a brilliant step forward eventually. However I do >>> think, on reflection, that where we're going wrong is not taking iRacing >>> seriously enough. It is not -- as we've been told countless times before >>> -- intended for the casual gaming market... and that includes most of us >>> these days, no matter how much we might like to think we're still >>> hardcore future champions. :-) >>> >>> Andrew McP > >> I agree with you 100%. I share your view that they are taking this >> very seriously. Unfortunately, I think that is why it may ultimately >> have to become more of a stand alone product, or fail. I don't think >> they will ever get the numbers of subscribers they need @ $15 USD a >> month to support further development. > > And that's based on what data?Alan Bernardo wrote:
> I don't think it's based on any observable data. It's based on the idea
> that most folks that race online are not good enough or don't have the
> patience of the few. I still think that a committment of $156 for a year,
> without the user having the ability to create his own server and race with
> whomever he wants, is a bit steep.
Potentially the strength of iRacing is giving drivers who would be at
the middle or back of the grid of a league race or new racers
intimidated by the experienced berating them for being in the way the
opportunity to race competitively and be incentivised to improve or
simply get more enjoyment out of online racing.
Many drivers are put off going online to find they are 8 seconds a lap
off the pace having driven successfully with the adjusted AI strength.
Trying to find a league of drivers with matching ability can be a matter
of luck.
Providing password protected races and getting groups of drivers to move
from an rFactor mod to an iRacing league won't do anything to develop
arrive & drive racing.
The question will be whether it can build up critical mass to have
sufficient drivers throughout the time zones to provide competitive
clean racing at any time. As the benefits will only be seen once a
driver has run sufficient races for the stats to build up.
So, yes, patience is potentially an issue!
Cheers
Tony
"Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:H5dek.139067$[email hidden]...
You're weakening your point by use of emotive and silly language. But
putting that aside, you seem to suggest that all is well online for the
casual racer who wants to do some pick-up races. Of course, it isn't, it's a
mess.
I run some races with the Megane mod last week and found the overall driving
standard to be so utterly appalling as to render the servers unraceable.
Until iRacing there was no where to go for people who wanted to experience a
realistic standard of driving from a field of on-line sim racers.
Anyway, Alan, I put it to you that it's the leagues that are exclusive and
elitist, not iRacing. Also, you keep banging on about wanting to race with
your buddies all the time, this doesn't happen in real life. When I raced
karts, we would just register for a race, turn up and not know a single
person. Not knowing anyone didn't detracted from the racing. If it does for
you, you'd best wrap yourself in your protective clique and hide their from
strange people.
Quoted text (39 lines)
> > "David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message > news:nwYdk.130586$[email hidden]... >> >> "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> On Jul 10, 2:37 pm, [email hidden] (Andrew >> MacPherson) wrote: >>>> >>>> I think that would be a brilliant step forward eventually. However I do >>>> think, on reflection, that where we're going wrong is not taking >>>> iRacing >>>> seriously enough. It is not -- as we've been told countless times >>>> before >>>> -- intended for the casual gaming market... and that includes most of >>>> us >>>> these days, no matter how much we might like to think we're still >>>> hardcore future champions. :-) >>>> >>>> Andrew McP >> >>> I agree with you 100%. I share your view that they are taking this >>> very seriously. Unfortunately, I think that is why it may ultimately >>> have to become more of a stand alone product, or fail. I don't think >>> they will ever get the numbers of subscribers they need @ $15 USD a >>> month to support further development. >> >> And that's based on what data? > > I don't think it's based on any observable data. It's based on the idea > that most folks that race online are not good enough or don't have the > patience of the few. I still think that a committment of $156 for a year, > without the user having the ability to create his own server and race with > whomever he wants, is a bit steep. > > If they don't change that, membership will probably drop off, after the > novelty has worn, leaving only the select few to race in their own world, > without intervention from the commoner. >"Tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:%ojek.8767$[email hidden]...
From my experience to date, Tony's right on the money. Making it possible
for anyone at any skill level to show up, get easily installed, configured
and have good races with others at a similar level is what it's about.
It'll take more subscribers for it truly gel, but it's going pretty well for
me so far in that respect.
I'm not ever going to challenge the likes of Huttu & co. at the sharp end
but I do like racing, and I like to be able to just hop in a race at a time
that's convenient for me and have a good experience. To me that means 1) a
top notch, bug-free sim in terms of driving physics, graphics, and sound, 2)
close, competitive racing among clean, respectful drivers. There are other
good sims with league or league-type racing, and I've been racing at R2P
(mostly w/GTR2) and enjoy it a lot; a good bunch of guys. I don't really
look for iRacing to supply that sort of experience, at least not near-term.
After all, as yet iRacing doesn't offer features such as changeable weather,
tire/fuel strategy w/accelerated usage rates, plethora of tracks and
high-end cars.
But what I've found is that is does offer me very good odds of hopping in
any race that I've done just a little practice and a qualifying session for
during a week, and finding a group of drivers within tenths of my pace (esp.
on ovals, which have been a pleasant surprise) who are all going to be
driving hard but clean. Mistakes happen, sure - I've made some myself. But
I've seen zero wreckers or abusive behavior so far, which in my pickup
racing experience has about a 10-20% probability of happening at best. And
along the way I've had some excellent races - wheel to wheel, pass and
repass, all race long without letup. And have really enjoyed driving the
cars; I've bought some I can't race yet just to sample the faster ones, and
they are very good. iRacing's tire model, at least in its limit behavior,
is just unparalleled in sims at the moment and the resulting FF is the same;
I've found myself laughing aloud sometimes at how good it is. Same for the
tracks; they simply are the standard at the moment
The incident points thing appears to freak people out at first since they
haven't encountered such before, but it doesn't bug me at all. Sure you get
annoyed when you get some points when someone tags you from behind or loses
it right in front of you, but guess what - as a result you end up driving
more like you would in a real car. In a real car, you don't want to get
crashed even if it's not your fault, so you watch for potential external
risks more - it works the same in iRacing. I don't worry at all about
getting a point or two for dropping a wheel now and then; I just look at
them as my crew chief cueing the mic and saying "Hey Sparky, we know you're
a hot rod and all, but watch you don't scratch my pretty car, ok?" ;-)
People who haven't driven them diss the included cars as well, but they are
trainers and they work as intended. They teach you economy of line and
input since you have to preserve momentum in them. And once you graduate to
the advanced versions, they are tweable for style and much more fun to
drive. The advanced Legends car in particular is a blast; it's tiny and
light with a screaming 11,000 rpm superbike engine and a wheelbase about a
foot long so it's a twitchy, nervous little beast. More fun than some of
the "higher end" cars, and and a real ball to drive on a road course; hope
to see some road events in these later. (Hey, I've some youtube vids of
Kimi Raikonnen sporting around in one on a Swedish road course, so don't
laugh... ;-))
While it wasn't for me, price can be a valid issue for some, and there are
at present limits on what you can do that may make it more sensible to hold
off if you don't see what you're looking for. But I have zero doubts at
this point that I'll get every dime of my money's worth in enjoyment.
That's my $0.02. Or more like $0.20 with the dollar being what it is!
Quoted text (33 lines)
> Alan Bernardo wrote: > >> I don't think it's based on any observable data. It's based on the idea >> that most folks that race online are not good enough or don't have the >> patience of the few. I still think that a committment of $156 for a >> year, without the user having the ability to create his own server and >> race with whomever he wants, is a bit steep. > > Potentially the strength of iRacing is giving drivers who would be at the > middle or back of the grid of a league race or new racers intimidated by > the experienced berating them for being in the way the opportunity to race > competitively and be incentivised to improve or simply get more enjoyment > out of online racing. > > Many drivers are put off going online to find they are 8 seconds a lap off > the pace having driven successfully with the adjusted AI strength. > > Trying to find a league of drivers with matching ability can be a matter > of luck. > > Providing password protected races and getting groups of drivers to move > from an rFactor mod to an iRacing league won't do anything to develop > arrive & drive racing. > > The question will be whether it can build up critical mass to have > sufficient drivers throughout the time zones to provide competitive clean > racing at any time. As the benefits will only be seen once a driver has > run sufficient races for the stats to build up. > > So, yes, patience is potentially an issue! > > Cheers > Tony> You're weakening your point by use of emotive and silly language.
And your example of this would be what?
>
> I run some races with the Megane mod last week and found the overall
> driving standard to be so utterly appalling as to render the servers
> unraceable.
>
I said that being able to drive with friends on your own server using a car
and track of your choosing is what is missing in iRacing, something which
should be automatic, given the cost. Your example is coming from jumping on
a server with people you do not know. We're not talking about the same
thing here.
>
> Anyway, Alan, I put it to you that it's the leagues that are exclusive and
> elitist, not iRacing.
I don't think so. iRacing is NROS: racing for the rich, so to speak. You
can have your "get off the track I'm better than you are" metality. Keep to
your own kind is the way I see it, and I won't be bothered.
>Also, you keep banging on about wanting to race with your buddies all the
>time, this doesn't happen in real life.
This is what I'd call silly. Of course it happens.
>When I raced karts, we would just register for a race, turn up and not know
>a single person. Not knowing anyone didn't detracted from the racing. If it
>does for you, you'd best wrap yourself in your protective clique and hide
>their from strange people.
I'll agree that the way they have iRacing set up is a good idea, in that you
race with those in your class. But at the same time you might be in someone
else's class but not really in it, if you know what I mean.
In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is
likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not
them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the
money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race where,
when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing itself.
Alan
Alan Bernardo wrote:
> In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is
> likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not
> them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the
> money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race where,
> when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing itself.
In my view to change the pricing model other than for a few hardcore
enthusiasts who will pay for the physics alone they must differentiate
the product from others.
To simply become the defacto sim for leagues or private groups to jump
into does little for changing the genre.
Whether you buy into the sim racing sport concept or not the rethinking
of the pick up racing concept is innovative and has the potential to
develop sim racing.
I believe more and more drivers are coming around to the view that
iRacing will not replace existing sims but complement them. I don't
believe you have to sit in any one camp.
Cheers
Tony
"Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:T5uek.241887$[email hidden]...
It's not designed for league use, you know that. It designed to give people
who only have time to do pickup races or who don't like running a stuffy
leagues, a good racing experience, which they currently don't get. The cost
of the service is minimal, so stopped overegging your argument by saying it
isn't.
Anyway, you're a known whinger who spent many years moaning about GPL. The
iRacing community is better off without you.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is > likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not > them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the > money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race > where, when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing > itself. >
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Go ahead and give it a month. I was a fortunate recipient of an invitation,
for which I am very grateful. Sadly as the years of sim racing have gone by,
I find myself with less time to dedicate. It was thrilling to once again
make use of that glorious netcode. I have a profound appreciation for the
development of the product and figured 20 bucks was, in a way, a donation to
the many many hours of thrills with GPL and Nascar series. Perhaps when Dave
recoups the development expenses, one day he will again produce a stand
alone sim that I can shell out my 40- 50 bucks, and pop on occasionally for
a thrill. There is also a chance I'll come back to iR if I can find the time
and passion again. I have only been able to get on 2-3 times in as many
weeks. That's just not enough to warrant the expense.
Quoted text (29 lines)
> Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox. Now I've already said I dislike > the pricing model of iRacing intensely, and that I really object to > having to drive vehicles I have zero interest in, then pay -- when I'm > allowed -- to add decent vehicles & tracks. > > So can someone explain to me why I've spent the last hour reading about > iRacing and watching youtube clips? Would it hurt to spend $20 and put a > toe in the water? Ok it'd be to drive a vehicle that looks & drives like > a tank, around tracks I've never driven before. And chances are I'd never > even go online with it... just do some offline circuits -- GPL demo style > -- to see what all the fuss is about. > > My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out > regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions > in life. You'll never get your money's worth... and you were always a > lousy driver anyway. The best that can happen is that you get addicted > and spend the next few months watching your penalty points clock up, > dooming you to drive in an eternal limbo of newbie races while others > zoom up the rankings and witter on about how they were once in a race > with someone who got out of the way for a Real Race Driver(TM). > It's just not a product aimed at enthusiastic, but fundamentally > untalented racers like you! Stick to rFactor when you need a racing fix, > or LFS when you want to contribute to never-ending product development, > or GTR2 when you want to listen to amazing engine noises. > > But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better > delete that invite quickly! > > Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much[email hidden] (Lancelot) wrote:
> I have a profound appreciation for the development of the
> product and figured 20 bucks was, in a way, a donation
> to the many many hours of thrills with GPL and Nascar
> series.
That's a very good way of looking at it. If I crack I will print it out
and put it over my monitor to make me feel better. ;-)
I'm also watching the financial markets carefully. If this Fannie &
Freddie thing gets much worse the dollar could sink in value (again) and
make the iRacing subscription significantly cheaper. So while that might
not be very good for the USA's inflation numbers, it might help iRacing
numbers in Europe. Every cloud has a silver brake lining! :-)
Andrew McP
"Tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:E3vek.175218$[email hidden]...
You are probably right, in the last point made. But man, this stuff reads
rather disjoinedly, as if you were writing a promotional article. :)
Alan
Quoted text (26 lines)
> Alan Bernardo wrote: > >> In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is >> likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not >> them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the >> money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race >> where, when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing >> itself. > > In my view to change the pricing model other than for a few hardcore > enthusiasts who will pay for the physics alone they must differentiate the > product from others. > > To simply become the defacto sim for leagues or private groups to jump > into does little for changing the genre. > > Whether you buy into the sim racing sport concept or not the rethinking of > the pick up racing concept is innovative and has the potential to develop > sim racing. > > I believe more and more drivers are coming around to the view that iRacing > will not replace existing sims but complement them. I don't believe you > have to sit in any one camp. > > Cheers > Tony
"David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message
news:2hvek.219543$[email hidden]...
If one isn't going to go for the big deal and forked out $156 dollars at
once (which is not what I'd call "minimal".), $20 a month is enough, so that
I'd think it would be nice to race with whom one wishes, and not have to do
what someone else tells one to do.
> Anyway, you're a known whinger who spent many years moaning about GPL. The
> iRacing community is better off without you.
Me "moaning about GPL"? I don't think you've labeled me right. You're like
some maniac who witnesses a crime, and when the police come to ask the
maniac who did it, he points to a crowd of people and says, "That's him!"
I'm on the verge of killfiling you, as if you'd really care. But I would.
Alan
Quoted text (19 lines)
> > "Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:T5uek.241887$[email hidden]... > >> >> In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is >> likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not >> them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the >> money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race >> where, when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing >> itself. >> > > It's not designed for league use, you know that. It designed to give > people who only have time to do pickup races or who don't like running a > stuffy leagues, a good racing experience, which they currently don't get. > The cost of the service is minimal, so stopped overegging your argument by > saying it isn't. >Alan Bernardo wrote:
> You are probably right, in the last point made. But man, this stuff reads
> rather disjoinedly, as if you were writing a promotional article. :)
"Disjoinedly" and you get at my writing :)
The message was intended to say that enjoying iRacing doesn't
necessitate the exclusion of everything else. You will see many familiar
names in iRacing and other sims. Dale Earnhardt Jr for one (iRacing & ARCA)
Cheers
Tony
Quoted text (8 lines)
> >> Andrew McP > > I agree with you 100%. I share your view that they are taking this > > very seriously. Unfortunately, I think that is why it may ultimately > > have to become more of a stand alone product, or fail. I don't think > > they will ever get the numbers of subscribers they need @ $15 USD a > > month to support further development. > > And that's based on what data?On Jul 14, 4:03 pm, Tony R <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> The message was intended to say that enjoying iRacing doesn't
> necessitate the exclusion of everything else.
I dunno, I really don't see myself enjoying another sim until the next
generation of stuff comes out. The combination of iRacing and a G25
is so much better than anything else out there right now, even RBR
(which has fantastic FF) feels pretty lifeless now.
"Tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:qiOek.190124$[email hidden]...
Ah, yes: I missed the the 't' there. :)
I don't think I was getting at your writing-- that was someone else's.
Yes, Earnhardt-- I bet he's as humble as they come.
This argument about what iRacing should be can go on until the sun quits
shinning. But it's just not for me. The fact that I don't get to do what I
want to do when I want to do it, considering the cost, turns me off.
Alan
Quoted text (14 lines)
> Alan Bernardo wrote: > >> You are probably right, in the last point made. But man, this stuff >> reads rather disjoinedly, as if you were writing a promotional article. >> :) > > "Disjoinedly" and you get at my writing :) > > The message was intended to say that enjoying iRacing doesn't necessitate > the exclusion of everything else. You will see many familiar names in > iRacing and other sims. Dale Earnhardt Jr for one (iRacing & ARCA) > > Cheers > Tony[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
> Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox.
Well, with only a few days to go to use my invitation, I cracked and
shelled out $20 to see what the fuss is about. After all, it's hard to
comment on something you have no experience of.
Having said that, I'm pretty darned sure I'd enjoy a ride in Kiera
Knightly, just as I was pretty darned sure that tank of a Solstice would
be a tank to drive, given its weight.
I was right. About the Solstice (not Kiera, sadly). Why, oh why, oh why
would anyone choose to drive that thing unless someone was holding a gun
to their head? A *large* gun! Two guns even, and a loop of razorwire
around their testicles. Momentum car my backside... it's like driving a
full laden water tanker around. Awful. Really awful. No, unforgettably,
mind-numbingly, someone kill me before I have to drive this animal
another 10 yards type bad. <fx:shudder> I didn't even complete a lap
before consigning it to the "life's too short" dustbin of experience.
The Legends Coupe is, on the other hand, far nippier and more satisfying
to drive than it looks. The rookie version (no setup tweaking) slides and
corrects nicely, and I had some fun getting my testing lap times down
below <time deleted to save embarrassment>. That was a pleasant surprise,
though I'll be honest and say there seem to be nothing obviously superior
about the driving experience compared to GTLegends.
As for tracks... I've only driven Laguna Seca so far (started there in
ICR2 a loooong time ago), and I see nothing whatsoever to get excited
about. It may be accurately mapped but it feels & looks like any other
sim L.S. course I've driven. I've always felt the whole laser mapping
thing was well-intentioned overkill, and so far I see no reason to change
my mind. It is, however, early days. But it all feels like 'just another
sim' to me at the moment.
However I'm still tempted to fork out for the Skip Barber Formula 2000
and drive a proper vehicle. But as it's highly unlikely I'll ever (be
allowed to :-) race enough online to earn the right to drive it in races
(especially if I have to drive that awful Solstice along the way!),
there's little point. It'd be like buying a Kiera Knightly duvet cover.
All frustration and zero satisfaction.
Anyway, I just fired up my Maserati in GTR2 and the sound of that
beautiful machine puts a grin on my face every time. I love racing my
'shadow' in practise mode, and the AI gives me a challenge without having
to fret about my safety score. It doesn't feel as involving to drive
coming straight out of the iRacing Coupe, but it's hard to know how much
of that is the fact it's a completely different type of vehicle, modelled
in a different sim engine.
I suppose I ought to round up by saying something positive. Let's have a
go, via a little detour.
Looking at the iRacing project I already see it falling into the trap
many sims have fallen into before. Too many vehicles and too many tracks.
This is definitely not GPL2 because the exquisite simplicity of GPL lay
in the limited track and vehicles numbers (until the modders got to work
and, sadly, diluted the racing pool too much) which drew everyone
together.
So what I'd still like to come eventually is a cut down version for the
masses. Two or three cars (not the Solstice! :-), half a dozen or so
tracks, some more game-like concessions (AI?), and VROC style
free-for-all racing. Keep the incident counter perhaps, but make it an
optional factor for those starting servers. Then they'll have the perfect
tool for drawing people deeper into the main iRacing experience.
Right, that'll do for now. First impressions are frequently a little
misguided, but they're rarely completely wrong. I'm going to go burn my
eardrums out listening to my Maserati for a while, then I might give that
Solstice another try. I mean, it can't be that bad... can it?
Andrew McP
PS Yes, it *was* that bad! Though I may just be being masochistic driving
it on a road course. As a substitute Nascar it probably works better on
ovals. But driving ovals on your own is almost as much fun as plucking
your pubic hair with tweezers.
Not that I'd know, obviously. I just have a good imagination. I'm now off
to imagine setting fire to my Solstice and claiming on the insurance to
get half my $20 back.
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> I was right. About the Solstice (not Kiera, sadly).
It's Keira, that maybe where you are going wrong :)
Great read Andrew.
Unless you get to drive the tracks (which I haven't and probably never
will) I guess it would be hard to appreciate the laser scanning,
although it does stop the arguments about elevations being wrong etc.
What the track creation process does is a great job at moddeling bumps
and cambers etc. These are translated superbly through the FFB.
Take a Skip Barber around Lime Rock to find out. Sadly iRacing put you
in a Solstice with numbing power steering and Laguna Seca which is
pretty smooth and bit of a long track for a slow car.
The Skip Barber and Solstice are like chalk and cheese.
Of course the Solstice is the entry car for you to prove your safe
driving record before being let loose on a twitchy open wheeler to go
wheel to wheel online. I understand that but I am concerned many won't
get past the Solstice to find the true delights of the sim.
If you buy the Skippy and don't like it you should give up sim racing
and take up stalking Keira Knightley, though I fear I may be too late...
Cheers
Tony
[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote:
> It's Keira, that maybe where you are going wrong :)
Damn, now I have to get this tattoo across my forehead changed! Whatever
happened to i before e except after c? I dunno what the world's coming
to!
> it does stop the arguments about elevations
> being wrong etc.
Fair point.
> What the track creation process does is a great job
> at moddeling bumps and cambers etc.
You must be right, and this ought to be a major selling point for those
who actually drive these tracks for real. The vast majority of us would
be none the wiser if a bit of cheaper guesswork was used though.
> Take a Skip Barber around Lime Rock to find out.
I'm sure I'll blow another $15 before my month's up, just out of
curiosity.
> Of course the Solstice is the entry car for you to prove
> your safe driving record before being let loose on a
> twitchy open wheeler to go wheel to wheel online. I
> understand that but I am concerned many won't get past
> the Solstice to find the true delights of the sim.
Coming straight from the Coupe I found the Solstice shockingly awful to
drive. It doesn't want to turn or accelerate, and -- call me crazy if you
like -- I was under the impression that all the excitement in driving
came from those bits. I have now tried it on the Lowes oval, where it
behaves as a typical Nascar tank, which is perfectly acceptable. But for
road courses it's going to do more harm than good IMO. It teaches you
nothing except to drive very slowly indeed and get bored in the process.
I guess some will get a masochistic challenge from that, but not me.
> If you buy the Skippy and don't like it you should give up
> sim racing and take up stalking Keira Knightley, though I
> fear I may be too late...
I'll have you know that my imaginary duvet cover isn't even theoretically
stained. What kind of a pervert do you think I am? :-D
Andrew McP
PS I made the mistake of trying the Oxford Plains Speedway before Lowes.
Someone tell me that track was included by mistake? You can spit from one
side to the other! I thought Bristol was a tight track in Nascar 1,2,3,
but this is far, far crazier!
[email hidden] (Jan Verschueren) wrote:
> Sit tight, McP, I've got some vacation coming up in two
> weeks and I'm gonna spend the $20 to see what Franky was
> raving about...
Too late Jan! :-)
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote:
> What the track creation process does is a great job
> at moddeling bumps and cambers etc. These are
> translated superbly through the FFB.
Having just tried Lime Rock for the first time, I see you're right.
Laguna Seca must be an exceptionally smooth surface, whereas at Lime Rock
the FFB is jiggling all over the place with the uneven surface.
Whether I enjoy this or not is a different matter. I think I'll be
turning the FFB down a bit.
Andrew McP
On Jul 31, 6:55 pm, [email hidden] (Andrew
MacPherson) wrote:
Hi Andrew.
I'm guessing you are, but please make sure you try the Advanced
Solstice and Legends aswell as the Rookie ones. The Rookie cars have
reduced HP and you can't turn them with the throttle like you can the
advanced cars.
Thanks for trying it Andrew! :up: If you choose not to extend your
membership, please make sure to cancel your payment before it rolls
onto the next one.
Good luck. :)
Tim.
Quoted text (13 lines)
> [email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > > What the track creation process does is a great job > > at moddeling bumps and cambers etc. These are > > translated superbly through the FFB. > > Having just tried Lime Rock for the first time, I see you're right. > Laguna Seca must be an exceptionally smooth surface, whereas at Lime Rock > the FFB is jiggling all over the place with the uneven surface. > > Whether I enjoy this or not is a different matter. I think I'll be > turning the FFB down a bit. > > Andrew McP[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote:
> The Rookie cars have reduced HP and you can't turn them
> with the throttle like you can the advanced cars.
Yes, they are a bit more lively. In the Solstice's case though it's not
good lively, it's even more annoying lively. I'm sure it's trying to
teach me something, but I'm a bit stubborn.
> :up:
You've been using forums for too long Tim. :-)
> If you choose not to extend your membership, please make
> sure to cancel your payment before it rolls onto the next
> one.
I must admit when I saw there was no option for a one off, non-rolling
payment I back-tracked and stopped my application. It's a marketing
method I dislike, though I accept it's there for our 'convenience'.
Then I thought again, put a big yellow "CANCEL" post-it on my monitor,
and started again.
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
> Having said that, I'm pretty darned sure I'd enjoy a ride in Kiera
> Knightly, just as I was pretty darned sure that tank of a Solstice would
> be a tank to drive, given its weight.
Kiera Knightly??? Why would you want to ride her? Sure, she has a nice face
but she is all skin and bones otherwise. You don't look at the mantle piece
when you are poking the fire. I expect Shakira would be a *much* nicer
ride.
[email hidden] (James McTavish) wrote:
> I expect Shakira would be a *much* nicer
> ride.
I would expect to be making lurve, not using her to toboggan over
cobbles.
As for relative attractiveness... what can I say, I prefer my women
slender and slightly undernourished. That way they're cheaper to take out
for a meal, and are more likely to be impressed by my limited cooking
skills.
No, actually I prefer them any way I can get them, preferably without
begging.
Andrew McP
After some experimenting, including finding out that the Solstice at Lime
Rock is nowhere near as much of a handful as at Laguna Seca, I decided
tonight I'd better try a little online racing. It is, after all, what
this sim is all about.
My first and, it has to be said, lasting impression was one of confusion.
I find the race interface puzzling and had difficulty working out what I
was supposed to do to get a race. This is probably entirely down to me
being a famously slow learner, and the fact that I'm new to the game. But
I suspect I'm not the only one who finds it less than transparent.
I want to be led by the nose...
Race -> which car? -> which track? -> list of sessions available and
when.
Part of this might be down to the fact your choices are so limited as a
basic package holder of rookie status. I'm not sure. It's probably unfair
of me to comment on this though, because I do tend to pick up things
slowly. However the race interface left me feeling a bit alienated as a
beginner.
Speaking of which, my first race. :-)
Solstice rookie at (full) Lime Rock. I tried to find a way of practising
with other cars on the track before qualification, but failed to find
anything. I may just be missing something, but I could *really* do with
some kind of open server just to get used to other cars on the track.
Anyway, qualified at the back of about ten cars (my natural position
throughout my racing 'career') and had a fairly uneventful race. Managed
not to screw up anyone's race and wasn't lapped until lap four. There was
still someone who hadn't lapped me by the time we finished, so I guess
that counts as a good race for me. :-)
Overall I enjoyed getting out of people's way cleanly, found the mirrors
reliable, and was relieved not to have caused anyone to lose any points.
In fact that was pretty much my only goal... forget racing, just don't be
the reason someone else gets penalties!
Which made me ponder the fact that I may not, as I suspected, be cut out
for iRacing if that's going to weigh on my mind so heavily. Still, back
in my GPL days I was always eager to be clean rather than successful.
That's great in one way, but ultimately being the nicest backmarker in
town is probably not worth spending money every month on.
Actually it wasn't all that much fun for free. ;-)
Ok, second race... worked out how to swap to the only other race I seemed
eligible for, Coupe rookie at Boston South. Now B.S. is a nasty little '4
turn' (can they count in the USA? I only ever found two! :-) track with
less of a comfort zone for a natural backmarker. No peace between
overtakings!
Still, I thought it would be useful to hone my mirror-watching skills so
I joined a field of about ten again.
Again, safely qualified at the back with only one late joiner behind me.
This time it took six short laps for me to be watching the rear view
mirror filling up. However I managed to avoid incident throughout this
and many, many subsequent overtakings and survived a clean race without
seeing or causing any problems. The winner lapped me three times in a 38
lap race. :-)
You may remember me mentioning I may not be cut out for this iRacing
lark.
Right, so my overall thoughts are as follows... The iRacing experience
does seem to be everything it promises to be. A solid and fairly well set
up online racer for serious sim users. There is nothing whatsoever casual
about it, and I suspect until there's a 'complete novices' series or
practise server I'll not really be inclined to do much more racing.
On balance I'd probably rather have fired up the PC tonight, dived
straight into a race against some AI, and turned off the PC an hour or so
later. Instead I got sucked into the waiting for the next race/session
thing, and while a race of some kind (not necessarily anything you might
want to race) once every hour is fair enough for a serious setup like
iRacing, for the average simmer it's probably too restricted.
As other have said, iRacing fits nicely into your sim repertoire
alongside other titles. It is no doubt the best coded simulation out
there, and the cars are very satisfying to drive (even that poxy Solstice
on the right track, if you bring a book to read while waiting for it to
do something interesting). But my argument is that if I'm going to be
paying $xx dollars a month to drive (and only then be allowed to drive
certain cars at certain times if I've been a good enough driver to earn
(and keep!) the right to drive the cars I've bought) then I want to be
driving one sim and one sim only.
So does iRacing hit that sim g-spot? For me, I think not. I'm too much of
a casual racer to be drawn in.
I want to love it, don't get me wrong. On one level I certainly *do* love
it... it's great to be back in safe, ex-Papyrus hands again. But the
regimented and restricted structure is not, sadly, for me. So while I
really long to be a part of this ongoing adventure, I don't see me making
it past my first month.
I have no doubt, however, that I will be lured back again from time to
time. I may even change my mind and 'forget' to cancel my account, who
knows... I'm already racing the Solstice after my initial outright
hatred.
But without spending more money on more cars and tracks the initial
experience is a bit empty, and I need to race a lot to clock up the right
to race anything interesting. So I may well be caught in the catch22
situation of being too tight to spend the money (and time) I need to
spend in order to really get into the sim. It lacks a 'killer app' from
the word go.... a Lotus + Watkins Glen online demo to woo the masses and
make us dribble with desire.
I seem to be writing an essay. Oh well, maybe it'll be of some use to
those of you debating whether or not to try it. And to all of you I say
you *must* try a month, even if it's only to find out what you're missing.
:-)
Who knows, I may be completely wrong in most of my impressions so far,
and the iRacing forums (open only to members, though I think viewing only
for non-members would be a good idea) seem to be full of people doing a
*lot* of racing and having an awful lot of fun.
If only I had the talent, time, and positive attitude to be one of them.
The latter is probably all that's really required though.
Andrew McP.
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 05:02 +0100 (BST),
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
<Snip>
Thanks, Andrew! A great review. I didn't try it (yet), and I fear I
never will. It seems a tad too serious for me, and I miss the freedom
from the old GPL/VROC days. Then you could do some other stuff on
your PC, and keep one eye on the racelist. When you saw an interesting
race (Monza of course...) coming up, you joined, qualified the best
you could for 1 hour, and in the race you crashed in T1. Without fear
someone would skin you alive because you caused some incidentpoints...
Cheers!
Remco
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
> I would expect to be making lurve, not using her to toboggan over
> cobbles.
>
> As for relative attractiveness... what can I say, I prefer my women
> slender and slightly undernourished.
Like this? Cripes, they should use her in the next Vampire movie.
http://www.destinationcreation.com/informatives/wp-
content/uploads/2007/10/keira_knightley_cc.jpg
I'll take this over that anyday.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee284/gamasutra/shakira-white-bikini-
lying-on-beach.jpg
[email hidden] (Basil) wrote:
> http://www.destinationcreation.com/informatives/wp-
> content/uploads/2007/10/keira_knightley_cc.jpg
Photoshop is a wonderful thing isn't it. While she could probably do with
a fish supper or two, this is more like it...
http://www.beyondhollywood.com/gallery/stills3/keira-knightley-070108/keir
a-knightley-bikini-13.jpg
I'm a leg and eye man. She has more than her fair share of good genetic
fortune in both departments. But then that's why we know who she is.
Andrew McP
no@email (Remco Moedt) wrote:
> I didn't try it (yet), and I fear I never will.
Hi Remco. As I said above, I really do think everyone should try it when
they get a chance... if only because by joining and leaving we probably
get a slightly better chance of them making some of the changes we'd like
(eventually).
You're right about GPL, of course. But I suppose it's swings &
roundabouts... if I had a pound for every GPL race which ended in mayhem
I'd have enough to buy a year's subscription to iRacing! :-)
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
Same photo! She's a retro hippy type chick anyway and they just don't do it
for me. Maybe Woody Allen could use her in his next film though.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > http://www.beyondhollywood.com/gallery/stills3/keira-knightley-070108/k > eir a-knightley-bikini-13.jpg > > I'm a leg and eye man. She has more than her fair share of good > genetic fortune in both departments. But then that's why we know who > she is. > > Andrew McPOn Aug 4, 8:11 am, [email hidden] (Andrew
MacPherson) wrote:
<snip>
I think most of the stuff you're missing is in the quick start guide
and the sporting code.
The quick start guide you're taken to on first login. But it's linked
under instruction in the menu at all times (as is the sporting code).
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> Who knows, I may be completely wrong in most of my impressions so far,
> and the iRacing forums (open only to members, though I think viewing only
> for non-members would be a good idea) seem to be full of people doing a
> *lot* of racing and having an awful lot of fun.
Don't forget they are still queuing on RSC to get in. I don't think you
will see what iRacing is really like for the casual racer until things
settle down. We have very experienced sim racers and drivers literally
running 10 races a day running with casual racers in the Rookie series.
Until the ratings pan out some guys will be running as backmarkers.
This is rather the catch 22 you describe. To really enjoy iRacing you
need to race enough to get a rating that puts you in with similar rated
drivers (there are plenty running similar times to you, Andrew). To race
more you need to enjoy the racing and the toughest time is the first
races. You either have to take someone else's word for it and believe in
the potential or dismiss it as no different to other, cheaper offerings.
You also need to buy cars to get the most out of the month, which rather
goes against the throw away trial option.
Yet as stated we are not yet at the public release stage, so things may
change when iRacing start looking to attract people in and market the
product.
I personally think the casual driver should hold a watching brief right
now and let the hotshoes work their way up otherwise it gives the wrong
impression that you won't be fast enough to enjoy iRacing and that is
far from the truth.
Cheers
Tony
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:11 +0100 (BST),
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
Good point. I might try it somewhere in the fall, when it gets colder.
>You're right about GPL, of course. But I suppose it's swings &
>roundabouts... if I had a pound for every GPL race which ended in mayhem
>I'd have enough to buy a year's subscription to iRacing! :-)
Hehe. Yeah, those where the days.
Cheers!
Remco
Quoted text (8 lines)
>no@email (Remco Moedt) wrote: > >> I didn't try it (yet), and I fear I never will. > >Hi Remco. As I said above, I really do think everyone should try it when >they get a chance... if only because by joining and leaving we probably >get a slightly better chance of them making some of the changes we'd like >(eventually).[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote:
> You also need to buy cars to get the most out of the
> month, which rather goes against the throw away trial option.
But what's the point? Unless I race cleanly for several hours every day
and get my rating up significantly, I can't race any cars I buy anyway.
Given that my only racing choices for the whole of this week are either
the basic Solstice at Lime Rock, or the basic Coupe at South Boston, it's
more likely that I'll die of boredom than score the points I need to get
hold of something more entertaining. :-)
I'd be happy if I could just race the Coupe at Lime Rock; it's a lively
little beast and an entertaining drive. But that's not an option... this
week or next, looking at the calendar.
After another Solstice race at LR this morning, where a field of 8 or so
Eastern European types have shown me a clean pair of heels again, I think
I can feel my enthusiasm leaking from my tyres faster than air from Lewis
Hamilton's front left.
Mind you, one driver did seem to be almost as slow as me for a few laps...
then he seemed to discover another gear and departed into the distance.
:-)
But it's not my slow performance which is the problem... I'm used to that!
It's the fact I'm forced to be in a car I dislike on a track I like for
the rest of the week, or in a car I like on an oval track I hate.
It's like racing in a straight jacket which I had to pay to get someone
to strap me into! I know I'm supposed to rise to the challenge and
wriggle my way out of that straight jacket, but...
But I'm going to stop whining. For now anyway. :->
Andrew McP
PS I'm pleased to report that it's a very simple process to stop your
subscription. A click of the mouse in your account details toggles
between auto-renewal and cancellation. That's to be applauded.
Huh? Have you actually read the sporting code?
You need four races or 4 TT's and an SR over 3.0 to be promoted at season
end. You can do that in one day, easily.
And as soon as you hit an SR of 4.0, you can race up a level as well.
The Class C Silver Crowns have been the most fun, white-knuckle racing I've
experienced in years. It will be interesting to see what car Class B Ovals
turns out to be.
The Class C Mazda is taking me a bit more work. Something doesn't feel
quite right to me since the last update. It may be more correct, but it's
different enough that it's thrown me for a loop.
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> [email hidden] (Tony R) wrote:
> But what's the point? Unless I race cleanly for several hours every day
> and get my rating up significantly, I can't race any cars I buy anyway.
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
>
>> You also need to buy cars to get the most out of the
>> month, which rather goes against the throw away trial option.
>
> But what's the point? Unless I race cleanly for several hours every day
> and get my rating up significantly, I can't race any cars I buy anyway.
Well you might well get hooked and it all becomes worthwhile as you have
something to aim for. Right now it would appear the Solstice doesn't
really appeal longer term than a few races. So why plough on with
iRacing? Yet if you do get to drive the Skip Barber you may feel those
apprenticeship races are worth the effort.
The problem is you won't know without trying. I really would like to see
a test drive option without buying the car, but I think iRacing have
enough on their plate right now and don't really need to hook in the
casual race just yet, but that time will surely come after public release.
Cheers
Tony
[email hidden] (Larry) wrote:
> Huh? Have you actually read the sporting code?
I have, but they're not the most transparent set of rules I've ever read
due to the complications of SR + race experience + tracks bought + cars
bought. All are limiting factors.
As I understand it, even if you race *cleanly* four times in a day as a
Rookie, you're only promoted (ie have the ability to use more of the
stuff you've bought) at the end of a Season (week?)
So as I understand it I don't have access to even the 'advanced' Solstice
or Coupe until the end of the week, no matter how many races I compete
in.
Oh hang on....
4.2.5.
Rookie�Series�
4.2.5.1.
Rookie Series are non-standard series in both categories (Oval and Road)
reserved for new iRacing.com members holding Rookie competition licenses.
4.2.5.2.
Rookie series shall typically include four race weeks.
...maybe it's four weeks for us lowlife, not one. Or maybe a season is
different to a series. I need to print all this out and try to make sense
of it. Not now though, work beckons.
Andrew McP
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >
snip
> Andrew McP
I believe you have misunderstood the rules. When I was a rookie (only just
last week) I was able to use the advanced Solstice and participate in races
using same as long as I kept my Safety rating above 3.0. As long as I kept
my Safety rating above 4.0 I was able to use and race the Skip Barbour car
though a purchase of the car was required. Same thing goes for the Oval side
with , respectively, the Advanced Legends and the Late Model.
You do not have to be promoted to use the above; your SR is the only
determinant. You can be bog slow and race them as long as you are safely bog
slow.
Dave
Quoted text (12 lines)
> I have, but they're not the most transparent set of rules I've ever read > due to the complications of SR + race experience + tracks bought + cars > bought. All are limiting factors. > > As I understand it, even if you race *cleanly* four times in a day as a > Rookie, you're only promoted (ie have the ability to use more of the > stuff you've bought) at the end of a Season (week?) > > So as I understand it I don't have access to even the 'advanced' Solstice > or Coupe until the end of the week, no matter how many races I compete > in. >[email hidden] (DavErb) wrote:
> I believe you have misunderstood the rules.
Thanks Dave, your experience is very helpful, thanks. It looks like my
first task is to get my SR over 3. That may take quite some time though
... I appear to get +.1 for a clean race, finishing at the back. Perhaps
my lack of speed is considered a hazard. :-)
Andrew McP
On Aug 6, 12:16 am, [email hidden] (Andrew
MacPherson) wrote:
It shouldn't be Andrew. But here's a tip: The more clean laps, the
more your safety rating goes up. The Rookie races are pretty short.
When you qualify try to lap out the entire session... That helps with
getting down to a better laptime, it helps with consistency and it
helps you with SR (the more turns you take cleanly, the more you go up
in SR).
Quoted text (9 lines)
> [email hidden] (DavErb) wrote: > > I believe you have misunderstood the rules. > > Thanks Dave, your experience is very helpful, thanks. It looks like my > first task is to get my SR over 3. That may take quite some time though > ... I appear to get +.1 for a clean race, finishing at the back. Perhaps > my lack of speed is considered a hazard. :-) > > Andrew McPOn Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:59 +0100 (BST), Andrew MacPherson wrote:
>
> After another Solstice race at LR this morning, where a field of 8 or so
> Eastern European types have shown me a clean pair of heels again, I think
> I can feel my enthusiasm leaking from my tyres faster than air from Lewis
> Hamilton's front left.
>
That basically sums up my iracing experience too, with new-found
enthusiasm for the project whenever we got our handson a new build,
only to fall into boredom and frustration again a couple of weeks
later (and back then, one didn't even have to pay real money).
All the best, Uwe
--
[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote:
> (the more turns you take cleanly, the more you go up
> in SR).
Just turning clean laps at the back of the field scores very little
though... I can assure you. :-)
This morning I've forced myself (and it has been a real chore) to run a
couple more Solstice rookie Lime Rocks, and a Time Trial. The first race
and time trial pushed my SR up about another .1 thanks to an off +
barrier collision in T1 during the race which meant taking it very
carefully for about 7 laps with a pull to the right. I didn't pit because
I'm not sure what effect that has on your scoring. It can't be good.
In the second, clean, race I miraculously came 4th out of 6 thanks to...
(a) a relatively slow field in which nobody lapped me... for the first
time! But only just.
(b) the two in front of me must have had a pretty bad last lap incident,
because they were about 15s ahead of me.
Anyway, in that race my SR went up from 2.92 to 3.49, so clearly your
position must have a significant multiplier effect.
I've now just checked and, as Dave suggested, I've found an 'advanced'
Solstice race I can join. Shame it's at Summit Point, which I know almost
as well as I can speak Mandarin, but I'm rapidly learning that in iRacing
beggars can't be choosers. :-)
Right, it's time for a cup of cocoa and then bed. My quest to find my way
around iRacing will have to continue tomorrow. Who knows, I may even plod
my way up to an SR of 4 this week, invest another $15 on the Skippy, and
discover that there's some fun in this darned treadmill of a sim! ;-)
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (hoover) wrote:
> That basically sums up my iracing experience too
I find myself constantly frustrated. There is so much I'd *like* to do
with iRacing, but very little of it is what iRacing will allow me to do.
I just wish they'd sell me a version which would allow me to just fire up
the sim, choose a track & car, and go race with some friends on an open
private server. I'd pay whatever they asked... well, maybe. ;-)
However such a release would probably cut subscriptions drastically and
make the make project unworkable, so I'm increasingly aware it'll never
happen.
So if I want fun from my racing, not a career with safety rating concerns,
I appear to be barking up the wrong tree.... for now anyway. Later on
they may relax a bit. The trouble with all this though is that the longer
you spend driving the iRacing code, the harder it is to go back to other
sims. While the racing framework is highly contentious, the sim code
certainly isn't.
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
> on an open private server
I know what I mean, even if nobody else does! :-)
Andrew McP
On Aug 6, 6:22 am, [email hidden] (Andrew
MacPherson) wrote:
hehe.
The reason your SR went up is probably because the SR isn't calculated
on a single event. It's calculated across all events. If you enter a
race and crash at the end, and quit, but went into another race and
crashed at the start, you might have done 2 laps (across 2 events) and
crashed twice in two laps. The SR can look a little weird because of
that. :)
Quoted text (36 lines)
> [email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > > (the more turns you take cleanly, the more you go up > > in SR). > > Just turning clean laps at the back of the field scores very little > though... I can assure you. :-) > > This morning I've forced myself (and it has been a real chore) to run a > couple more Solstice rookie Lime Rocks, and a Time Trial. The first race > and time trial pushed my SR up about another .1 thanks to an off + > barrier collision in T1 during the race which meant taking it very > carefully for about 7 laps with a pull to the right. I didn't pit because > I'm not sure what effect that has on your scoring. It can't be good. > > In the second, clean, race I miraculously came 4th out of 6 thanks to... > > (a) a relatively slow field in which nobody lapped me... for the first > time! But only just. > > (b) the two in front of me must have had a pretty bad last lap incident, > because they were about 15s ahead of me. > > Anyway, in that race my SR went up from 2.92 to 3.49, so clearly your > position must have a significant multiplier effect. > > I've now just checked and, as Dave suggested, I've found an 'advanced' > Solstice race I can join. Shame it's at Summit Point, which I know almost > as well as I can speak Mandarin, but I'm rapidly learning that iniRacing > beggars can't be choosers. :-) > > Right, it's time for a cup of cocoa and then bed. My quest to find my way > aroundiRacingwill have to continue tomorrow. Who knows, I may even plod > my way up to an SR of 4 this week, invest another $15 on the Skippy, and > discover that there's some fun in this darned treadmill of a sim! ;-) > > Andrew McPDon't confuse Safety Rating and iRating. They have nothing to do with each
other.
SR dictates, solely, your ability to race clean and controls your
advancement. Period.
iRating is your personal score against all other drivers and is based solely
on finishing positions. Nothing about iRating controls advancement or what
cars you drive.
Rookies do not have iRatings. There is a reason for that. Rookies should
be more concerned with developing skills to safely drive in traffic, and
that's it. The finishing position is far secondary for Rookies.
Everyone starts as a Rookie. Over 4 years we did many times :)
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (33 lines)
> [email hidden] (Larry) wrote: > >> Huh? Have you actually read the sporting code? > > I have, but they're not the most transparent set of rules I've ever read > due to the complications of SR + race experience + tracks bought + cars > bought. All are limiting factors. > > As I understand it, even if you race *cleanly* four times in a day as a > Rookie, you're only promoted (ie have the ability to use more of the > stuff you've bought) at the end of a Season (week?) > > So as I understand it I don't have access to even the 'advanced' Solstice > or Coupe until the end of the week, no matter how many races I compete > in. > > Oh hang on.... > > 4.2.5. > Rookie Series > 4.2.5.1. > Rookie Series are non-standard series in both categories (Oval and Road) > reserved for new iRacing.com members holding Rookie competition licenses. > 4.2.5.2. > Rookie series shall typically include four race weeks. > > > ...maybe it's four weeks for us lowlife, not one. Or maybe a season is > different to a series. I need to print all this out and try to make sense > of it. Not now though, work beckons. > > Andrew McP >I assure you it doesn't work like that. If you got a +1, you got tires off
the track, somewhere. There is a +1 for wall contact but for me it's always
been 0 or 4, I either screw up good or I don't :)
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> [email hidden] (DavErb) wrote: > >> I believe you have misunderstood the rules. > > Thanks Dave, your experience is very helpful, thanks. It looks like my > first task is to get my SR over 3. That may take quite some time though > ... I appear to get +.1 for a clean race, finishing at the back. Perhaps > my lack of speed is considered a hazard. :-) > > Andrew McPAgain, in no way does going slow affect your SR, as long as you go slow
safely. You are not punished in SR for being slow. That's what iRating is
for :) But at this point iRating should be the furthest thing from your
mind.
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> [email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote:
> Just turning clean laps at the back of the field scores very little
> though... I can assure you. :-)
Patience grasshopper. Wax on/Wax off and all that.
Once you get to Class C you won't give a damn about your early racing days.
Actually, this begins with Class D, but kicks into high with Class C.
I, too, was bored to death in the Rookie ranks. Mainly because I am plum
burnt-out on short tracks. Class C has changed all that. I ran 10 races
and 2 time trials _already_ this week in the SC at Homestead. That's more
than I did an entire season in my rookie season. In fact, it's more than I
did in my entire Class D season. In the first week of racing this season I
have already met my Class B promotion requirements for next season.
I set a goal. To get the hell out of Rookie/Class D as soon as possible,
and I structured my racing around that. I accomplished that goal and I'm
having a ball now in Class C. Well, at least with ovals :) As usual, RC's
are a bitch for me but it's always been like that.
You need to give it time. You won't be there forever.
One other thing, and a lot of people miss this. For races/TT's to count
towards promotion, you must race IN-CLASS. You can race up, and you can
race down, but only IN-CLASS races/TT's will count towards promotion. I
think a few got bit by this the last cycle. This is one part I do thing
should be made clearer in da book.
Use the first two weeks to meet your requirements for promotion. THEN go
have fun.
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> [email hidden] (hoover) wrote:
>
>> That basically sums up my iracing experience too
>
> I find myself constantly frustrated. There is so much I'd *like* to do
> with iRacing, but very little of it is what iRacing will allow me to do.
That big jump was not because of were you finished (SR is never affected
by where you finish, really). What happened is you got about another
+0.1 and it put you over 3. The system automatically bumps you to the
middle of the next range (i.e ~3.5) so drivers aren't constantly
slipping back an forth between SR ranges (i.e once you advance to the
next level you'd have to screw up badly to drop back down again).
A +.1 is typical for a clean rookie race. The thing is you only need
about 5 of them to get to the next level (2.5->3, 3.5->4).
BTW in practice sessions you can drive with other cars on the track and
not worry about incidents (they show them but they don't count towards
SR). You just need to let you buddies know when you be on a practice
server (i.e. pick one at a specific time).
I'm not a big fan of iracing but to give it a fair shake you really
should read the sporting code. ;-)
PS Tire pressures make a big difference in the way the adv. slowstice
handles.
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
Quoted text (38 lines)
> [email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > >> (the more turns you take cleanly, the more you go up >> in SR). > > Just turning clean laps at the back of the field scores very little > though... I can assure you. :-) > > This morning I've forced myself (and it has been a real chore) to run a > couple more Solstice rookie Lime Rocks, and a Time Trial. The first race > and time trial pushed my SR up about another .1 thanks to an off + > barrier collision in T1 during the race which meant taking it very > carefully for about 7 laps with a pull to the right. I didn't pit because > I'm not sure what effect that has on your scoring. It can't be good. > > In the second, clean, race I miraculously came 4th out of 6 thanks to... > > (a) a relatively slow field in which nobody lapped me... for the first > time! But only just. > > (b) the two in front of me must have had a pretty bad last lap incident, > because they were about 15s ahead of me. > > Anyway, in that race my SR went up from 2.92 to 3.49, so clearly your > position must have a significant multiplier effect. > > I've now just checked and, as Dave suggested, I've found an 'advanced' > Solstice race I can join. Shame it's at Summit Point, which I know almost > as well as I can speak Mandarin, but I'm rapidly learning that in iRacing > beggars can't be choosers. :-) > > Right, it's time for a cup of cocoa and then bed. My quest to find my way > around iRacing will have to continue tomorrow. Who knows, I may even plod > my way up to an SR of 4 this week, invest another $15 on the Skippy, and > discover that there's some fun in this darned treadmill of a sim! ;-) > > Andrew McP >Larry wrote:
> One other thing, and a lot of people miss this. For races/TT's to count
> towards promotion, you must race IN-CLASS. You can race up, and you can
> race down, but only IN-CLASS races/TT's will count towards promotion. I
> think a few got bit by this the last cycle. This is one part I do thing
> should be made clearer in da book.
>
Huh? As a rookie with SR at 3.x the adv slowstice races and TT counted
towards SR, and as a rookie with 4.x SR the Skippy TT and races counted
towards SR. And SR is the only thing that matters when it comes to
promotions. It would really suck if you had to go back and do slowstice
races after earning a promotion.
[email hidden] (Ken MacKay) wrote:
> The system automatically bumps you to the
> middle of the next range (i.e ~3.5)
Ah, now it makes sense. Thanks.
> I'm not a big fan of iracing but to give it a fair shake
> you really should read the sporting code. ;-)
I have read it, but have had trouble digesting it into something which
makes sense to me at all times. As I said much earlier though, I'm quite
sure that's more my problem than iRacing's. I'm not quick off the mark
when it comes to taking information onboard, hence this exploratory
iRacing 'diary'.
It is, however, not the simplest of sims to get to grips with. I think
that's fair to say.
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Larry) wrote:
> I, too, was bored to death in the Rookie ranks.
I think iRacing could improve the experience greatly by simply dumping
the Solstice (off a very high cliff indeed) and just using the Coupe for
Rookie racing. Ok, it's an ugly bug of a car to look at, but at least the
handling is more entertaining on a road course.
The Solstice may look like a proper car but someone's using mine to store
their gold bullion in judging by the way it handles. The advanced
version's better, but that just means some of the gold's been stolen...
probably by the Fed to finance the socialisation of the US economy which
seems to be fully under way now. ;-)
> Use the first two weeks to meet your requirements
> for promotion. THEN go have fun.
I appreciate that. But the only thing that's kept me going so far is a
desire not to waste my $20. I think road racers starting out on the
iRacing path should be warned they're not there to enjoy themselves as
Rookies, they're there to prove they're worthy enough. :->
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
Is the Soltice that bad of a car in RL or has iRacing just made it
appear bad and is not as realistic as some would have us believe? THe
Solstice is no Ferrari for sure and I have never driven a Solstice but
looking at its design specs it should'nt be that bad of a performer.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/09/16/143199.html
"The Solstice carries itself like a true sports car, its classic rear
wheel drive and four-wheel independent suspension layout allows for that
correct old-timey roadster ride, but still delivers all the advantages
of up to the minute 2006 Pontiac technology.
The suspension package includes four Bilstein coil-over monotube shocks,
eighteen inch 245/45R18 rubber and fast-ratio rack and pinion steering,
which allows Solstice to be driven like a sports car should, and really
deliver that special �feel� of a sports car to the driver and passenger.
The Solstice will let the driver feel the road, and can take corners
like a true sports car, yet is still smooth and comfortable enough to
enjoy even the longest road trip."
Quoted text (8 lines)
> Coming straight from the Coupe I found the Solstice shockingly awful > to drive. It doesn't want to turn or accelerate, and -- call me crazy > if you like -- I was under the impression that all the excitement in > driving came from those bits. I have now tried it on the Lowes oval, > where it behaves as a typical Nascar tank, which is perfectly > acceptable. But for road courses it's going to do more harm than good > IMO. It teaches you nothing except to drive very slowly indeed and get > bored in the process.[email hidden] (Richie Rich) wrote:
> Is the Soltice that bad of a car in RL or has iRacing
> just made it appear bad
I've no idea. It's probably a perfectly acceptable American sports car.
But while Americans are excellent at many things, fast, responsive sports
cars aren't famously one of them. :-)
> but still delivers all the advantages
> of up to the minute 2006 Pontiac technology.
Ah, that explains it then! ;-)
Andrew McP
"Richie Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
So the one simmed at iRacing is the 260HP and not the 175HP one?
Quoted text (31 lines)
> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > >> Coming straight from the Coupe I found the Solstice shockingly awful >> to drive. It doesn't want to turn or accelerate, and -- call me crazy >> if you like -- I was under the impression that all the excitement in >> driving came from those bits. I have now tried it on the Lowes oval, >> where it behaves as a typical Nascar tank, which is perfectly >> acceptable. But for road courses it's going to do more harm than good >> IMO. It teaches you nothing except to drive very slowly indeed and get >> bored in the process. > > Is the Soltice that bad of a car in RL or has iRacing just made it > appear bad and is not as realistic as some would have us believe? THe > Solstice is no Ferrari for sure and I have never driven a Solstice but > looking at its design specs it should'nt be that bad of a performer. > > http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/09/16/143199.html > > "The Solstice carries itself like a true sports car, its classic rear > wheel drive and four-wheel independent suspension layout allows for that > correct old-timey roadster ride, but still delivers all the advantages > of up to the minute 2006 Pontiac technology. > > The suspension package includes four Bilstein coil-over monotube shocks, > eighteen inch 245/45R18 rubber and fast-ratio rack and pinion steering, > which allows Solstice to be driven like a sports car should, and really > deliver that special "feel" of a sports car to the driver and passenger. > The Solstice will let the driver feel the road, and can take corners > like a true sports car, yet is still smooth and comfortable enough to > enjoy even the longest road trip."
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Came across this while searching for a good example to disprove that
rubbish- http://www.break.com/index/dumb-woman-crashes-shelby-cobra3.html
....and to think they are allowed to vote and even run empires! Of
course, the ?owner? who can be heard to say "I knew she'd do that" isn't too
bright either. Mega sin!
Quoted text (9 lines)
> [email hidden] (Richie Rich) wrote: > >> Is the Soltice that bad of a car in RL or has iRacing >> just made it appear bad > > I've no idea. It's probably a perfectly acceptable American sports car. > But while Americans are excellent at many things, fast, responsive sports > cars aren't famously one of them. :-) >> Is the Soltice that bad of a car in RL or has iRacing just made it
> appear bad and is not as realistic as some would have us believe? ...
I think it feels bad (different) because we are used to driving "race"
cars in sims more so that stock street cars. When I've had my street
car on the track, it feels a lot like the Solstice. In a sim that might
seam boring, but in the real world, it is a lot of fun.
I am not so down on the Solstice. The race techniques are the same
across cars (for the most part), and I feel one can learn and have fun
in any motored vehicle ... not to dismiss people's car preferences
obviously :) I guess I'm just a race nut that given the chance would
race anything.
[email hidden] (rqk) wrote:
> I think it feels bad (different) because we are used
> to driving "race" cars in sims more so that stock
> street cars.
Yes, Racing any car (against the right people) can be enjoyable, but
coming from a decade or so of GPL and other sims, the change of pace and
performance is a bit of a shock to the system. No doubt it's good for
iRacing rookies, but it'd be nice if there was a quicker way of proving
you've got a bit of experience under your belt and aren't going to blast
into T1 and rain on everyone's parade. Life is too short for racing cars
which make you (or at least me!) grimace rather than grin.
That's not to say the Solstice is all bad... but after driving it in
seven races now, with plenty more to go before I hit 4.0 and a chance to
buy & race a Skippy, I think I may have to tape my hands to the wheel.
They're developing an aversion to driving that tank. :->
Still, I did have a little fun yesterday. The influx of new blood led to
more incidents for me to watch from my perpetual backmarker's spot, and
one "FU!" (not aimed at me, I hasten to add). I finally felt like I was
racing in the real world rather than the Stepford Wives Racing Club. ;-)
Andrew McP
I'd say you'll be over 4 very soon. your SR kinda stalls close to the even
numbers then jumps up suddenly. I ran 4 races and 3 TT to get to 3.69 to get
my D license. i only had a week before the summer season ended when I
signed up.
Don
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (26 lines)
> [email hidden] (rqk) wrote: > >> I think it feels bad (different) because we are used >> to driving "race" cars in sims more so that stock >> street cars. > > Yes, Racing any car (against the right people) can be enjoyable, but > coming from a decade or so of GPL and other sims, the change of pace and > performance is a bit of a shock to the system. No doubt it's good for > iRacing rookies, but it'd be nice if there was a quicker way of proving > you've got a bit of experience under your belt and aren't going to blast > into T1 and rain on everyone's parade. Life is too short for racing cars > which make you (or at least me!) grimace rather than grin. > > That's not to say the Solstice is all bad... but after driving it in > seven races now, with plenty more to go before I hit 4.0 and a chance to > buy & race a Skippy, I think I may have to tape my hands to the wheel. > They're developing an aversion to driving that tank. :-> > > Still, I did have a little fun yesterday. The influx of new blood led to > more incidents for me to watch from my perpetual backmarker's spot, and > one "FU!" (not aimed at me, I hasten to add). I finally felt like I was > racing in the real world rather than the Stepford Wives Racing Club. ;-) > > Andrew McP >[email hidden] (Don Schwartz Jr) wrote:
> I'd say you'll be over 4 very soon
Not if I repeat what happened yesterday during a push for 4. Racing with
some new rookies (all were faster than me, but a few were a lot more
inconsistent & dangerous) I had several deliberate grass excursions to
avoid trouble, and then a final lap T1 spin, leaving me face on into the
lapping traffic. My SR or blood pressure may never be the same again. :-)
Andrew McP
Good evening to all our regular viewers here on really.andrew.shut_up!
And tonight's headlines...
Andrew MacPherson survives two more races and somehow manages to get his
SR up to 4.44. A spokesman for Andrew MacPherson said "Andrew is grateful
to those who've recently joined iRacing. Your sideways antics have made
him feel a little better about his embarrassingly slow driving at Lime
Rock. You may be faster than his 1:07-9s, despite all those crashes, but
I get to buy a Skippy now and embarrass myself in front of iRacing
veterans, so ner-ner, ne ner-ner! :-p"
Andrew MacPherson launches a protest aimed at altering iRacing's anally
retentive policy on incidents. "If I finish a race and fancy kicking the
back end out when I'm coming to a halt in the run-off area at T1, I don't
expect to earn a x2 penalty for losing control, ok? I didn't lose control,
I did exactly what I wanted to do! I mean, it's only a sim guys, lighten
up! Neither do I expect to earn a x3 penalty for hitting a barrier once
qualification's over.
Andrew MacPherson gets his credit card out and goes off to buy a Skippy &
track to race it on. He feels exploited and dirty for getting
semi-assimilated into the immoral virtual crack den that is
i-no-swearing-please-we're-easily offended-Racing, but still can't resist
the lure. He even finds himself contemplating the fact that if he
cancelled his monthly payment to Oxfam, he could race iRacing 'for free'.
A spokesman for the governing body of MacPherson Motorsport said: "We are
clearly concerned that the ethical standards of this organisation have
slipped in recent days. However the credit crunch is forcing us to
consider all possibilities when facing future racing commitments."
A spokesman for Oxfam said: "You lowlife! How could such a thought ever
cross your mind?"
Andrew MacPherson's personal assistant replied: "Well maybe if you
stopped sending me paperwork every month requesting more money for yet
another good cause I might still be feeling a bit more charitable."
And finally... I've just noticed that the last race report (with the
kicked out back end incident) shows no incidents reported. Maybe I got
away with it after all. I certainly didn't the other day with the
post-qualification prang though.
Andrew "to Skip or not to Skip?" McP
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
> Andrew "to Skip or not to Skip?" McP
Oh bollox. I Skipped almost immediately... the buying process is very
quick & easy, giving you no time to reconsider. That;s my excuse anyway
and I;m sticking to it.
And bought this week (essential) & next week's tracks. That's 51 more of
those increasingly worthless dollars in iRacing's coffers. I really
should've held off buying the second track, but that 10% discount for the
third item was too much to resist, and... and...
I feel dirty and used. Used to coming last anyway. And dirty from the
virtual exhaust I've been inhaling all week from the back of the race.
Maybe all that carbonline monoxide has left me brain damaged? That's the
only way I can explain this tragic loss of financial control.
Andrew McP
"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:489af047$[email hidden]:
Ah, but the Shelby Cobra used a *Britsh* racing body with a huge american
designed engine so that explains it. Corvette design is good too so
Americans are not complete failures at designing good sports cars.
Quoted text (11 lines)
> Came across this while searching for a good example to disprove > that > rubbish- > http://www.break.com/index/dumb-woman-crashes-shelby-cobra3.html > > ....and to think they are allowed to vote and even run empires! Of > course, the ?owner? who can be heard to say "I knew she'd do that" > isn't too bright either. Mega sin! > > >[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
>
> Andrew MacPherson's personal assistant replied: "Well maybe if you
> stopped sending me paperwork every month requesting more money for yet
> another good cause I might still be feeling a bit more charitable."
I know what you mean! When I was a member of Amnesty International every
charity in the world considered me their "friend".
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
> I Skipped almost immediately...
Mmm... and now I'm only about 2s off the rookie Solstice pace at Lime
Rock. Lol!
Ignoring that depressing statistic, the Skip Barber 2000 is very nice to
get into. I'd forgotten how claustrophobic those closed cockpits are
until someone took the sheet metal cutter to my car frame and delivered
something with a bit more breathing room.
My first impression though was to rip the gearbox out and replace first
gear. I suspect it's kept deliberately long to minimise start line antics,
but it definitely masks the car's performance when you first put the foot
down looking for a little GPL-esque throttle action.
Still, that's the least of my problems. Infineon is a tricky track. It's
one of those annoying places which seems to be infinitely configurable.
So you've got bits of spare tarmac and optional race line everywhere,
ready to lead your anticipation astray. Throw in several nasty blind
turns, some unfriendly camber, even less friendly 'grass', and a
surrounding landscape which -- like Laguna Seca -- is clearly suffering
from a bit of premature global warming, and you've got a fairly
challenging experience. It's taken me about 20 laps to feel even remotely
comfortable there... taking me down to about 1:58, which is only about
12s off the pace, I believe.
Ah, now I understand why Max Mosely gets such a thrill out of paying
people to beat him... iRacing is a taking a whip to my backside, and
showing me what a bad, bad, *bad* driver I've always been.
Andrew 've haff means ant vays off makink you valk back to ze pits' McP
[email hidden] (Tim O'Reily) wrote:
> When I was a member of Amnesty International every
> charity in the world considered me their "friend".
The way charitable giving has become industrialised leaves an unpleasant
taste in the mouth, doesn't it. I know they all do it now because it
successfully raises more money than they used to get, but somehow it just
seems wrong. I'm sure Oxfam spend more in P&P sending me requests for
more money than I actually donate!
Still, it salves my wasteful western conscience a *tiny* bit to know I'm
at least trying to help someone somewhere... even if that someone is only
my local postman, who gets to keep his job thanks to all the charity junk
mail. ;-)
Andrew McP
Hey Andy,
thanks again for sharing your feelings and thoughts during your
iracing bout. It's always interesting to hear about another viewpoint,
and in most cases I totally agree with you (esp. the blood pressure
part and the bit about having to tape your hands to the wheel).
Not meaning to put a "damper" on your new-found enthusiasm, but for
some reason the novelty and relative fun driving the Skippy after
being forced to drive the milk truck wore off after another week or so
(at least in my case). Hope you'll like it better, because I too
*want* to like iRacing, but in its current form it simply fails to
provide the motviation needed to keep going. My subscription lasts
until December, maybe they'll come up with something new that gets me
going again.
All the best,
Uwe
[email hidden] (hoover) wrote:
> Not meaning to put a "damper" on your new-found enthusiasm,
> but for some reason the novelty and relative fun driving
> the Skippy after being forced to drive the milk truck wore
> off after another week or so
The Skippy is not as much of a performance leap from the Solstice as I'd
hoped. But, being fair, it's probably the right sort of step up. I can
certainly make a real mess of Infineon driving it, so I guess it's more
than enough of a vehicle for me. :-)
> My subscription lasts until December, maybe they'll come
> up with something new that gets me going again.
I suspect I will end up with another month to get the most out of today's
purchases. However I fail to see how iRacing is ever going to maintain
critical mass among different skill levels with so many race formats.
Even for free after an initial purchase I think it'd be a struggle for
them.
The fact that you're forced to race on only one track per week will help,
but I think that will put off as many people as it brings together. It's
a very difficult balance to get right.
As for me... well, ultimately I know I will tire of being a backmarker...
I did in GPL despite the excellent community (even before GPL died the
death of a thousand tracks and mods). And this time the 'club' nature of
iRacing is much less relaxed than GPL via VROC. That in itself will
probably ensure that I tire sooner rather than later.
We will see. So far though it's been an interesting, if frustrating,
journey that's cost me a bit more than one full price game release. If it
proves to be a dead end for me, I can easily live with that.
And when all's said and done, I think the sim world's a better place for
having Kaemmer still working in it (unlike so many excellent flight sim
creators of the past). So part of me thinks I should keep on subscribing
just to try and ensure that.
Maybe if they add the 'Ring to iRacing it'll help? Lol! Imagine what that
track would cost to buy, based on the cost of existing tracks... probably
about $200. :-)
Andrew McP
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> Good evening to all our regular viewers here on really.andrew.shut_up!
LOL! Well if nothing else your hard earned money has gone to keeping a
few of us here entertained. Congrats on the "promotion". Glad to see
driving the slowstice didn't do any permanent damage. ;-)
hoover wrote:
> My subscription lasts
> until December, maybe they'll come up with something new that gets me
> going again.
I was shocked when you said you signed up for 6 months after all that
pissing and moaning in the iracing forums during the beta. ;-) I
couldn't bring myself to stay on as have exactly the same attitude about
not wanting to waste the money so would have to drive, and just don't
have the time to do that right now. Did miss it at first, but once I
realized the pressure wasn't there to practice and race every week it's
almost a relief. Contrary to some beliefs you can have a meaningful and
fulfilling life after iracing. ;-)
Let us know if they do come up that "something new".
Ken
>> I Skipped almost immediately...
>
> Mmm... and now I'm only about 2s off the rookie Solstice pace at Lime
> Rock. Lol!
>
Welcome to the skippy. I have almost never run road coarses before iRacing
so this is all new to me. I've been getting ready to attempt my first skip
race this weekend at VIR. So far I'm 8 seconds off the pace so come on in
and you can pass me :)
Don
[email hidden] (Don Schwartz Jr) wrote:
> I have almost never run road coarses before iRacing
> so this is all new to me.
I have no such excuse. :-) While I have had periods enjoying a little
oval action, my sim upbringing has been mainly road racing.
After putting in a few more laps at Infineon I'm a bit disappointed the
week's racing there is almost over. By the time I'm safe to race there
it'll be too late. But it is, despite initial appearances, a very
satisfying track to get round once you know what you're doing... exciting
even! And that's without anyone else on the track.
If the British summer continues as it is as the moment (grey and damp,
which is actually how I prefer my weather if I'm honest) I may well be
spending more time on iRacing than I suspected. That should accelerate
either my assimilation into the Stepford Racers, or my falling off the
iRacing perch.
Andrew McP... half watching the Olympics opening ceremony when he really
ought to be in bed ready for work tonight. The Chinese certainly know how
to stage a show!
My understanding is that ONLY In-Class races count towards promotion.
This is the section from the Rule Book:
2.4.3. Sessions must be completed by the driver in series with minimum
license eligibility
requirements that match the driver's current license level in a given
category.
***** Sessions completed in series for which the driver is only eligible by
virtue of a 4.0 or
higher Safety Rating (see section 2.9.2, "racing up") will count toward the
minimum
participation requirements. Sessions completed in series with minimum
license
eligibility requirements below the driver's current license level (see
section 2.9.3,
"racing down") will not count. *****
It appears this has been clarified a bit. If you race UP, by virtue of
having a 4.0 or higher SR, you DO get credit for those races.
If you race DOWN, i.e. you are a Class C and decide to run some Late Model
Races, those do NOT count.
That is why you met the requirements. You raced UP.
Good for you :)
-Larry
"Ken MacKay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:JAmmk.4679$nu6.1514@edtnps83...
Quoted text (14 lines)
> Larry wrote: > > One other thing, and a lot of people miss this. For races/TT's to > count >> towards promotion, you must race IN-CLASS. You can race up, and you can >> race down, but only IN-CLASS races/TT's will count towards promotion. I >> think a few got bit by this the last cycle. This is one part I do thing >> should be made clearer in da book. >> > > Huh? As a rookie with SR at 3.x the adv slowstice races and TT counted > towards SR, and as a rookie with 4.x SR the Skippy TT and races counted > towards SR. And SR is the only thing that matters when it comes to > promotions. It would really suck if you had to go back and do slowstice > races after earning a promotion.You guys are coming from SIMS like rFactor, GTR, GPL, etc... and being put
into MUCH slower and ill-handling cars. That is where the issue is. You
aren't used to it.
We ALL had to suffer through this at least once. Just get yourself
graduated out of the Solstice and Legends and things will change
dramatically for you.
Every soldier goes through Boot Camp :)
-Larry
"Richie Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (22 lines)
> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > Is the Soltice that bad of a car in RL or has iRacing just made it > appear bad and is not as realistic as some would have us believe? THe > Solstice is no Ferrari for sure and I have never driven a Solstice but > looking at its design specs it should'nt be that bad of a performer. > > http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/09/16/143199.html > > "The Solstice carries itself like a true sports car, its classic rear > wheel drive and four-wheel independent suspension layout allows for that > correct old-timey roadster ride, but still delivers all the advantages > of up to the minute 2006 Pontiac technology. > > The suspension package includes four Bilstein coil-over monotube shocks, > eighteen inch 245/45R18 rubber and fast-ratio rack and pinion steering, > which allows Solstice to be driven like a sports car should, and really > deliver that special "feel" of a sports car to the driver and passenger. > The Solstice will let the driver feel the road, and can take corners > like a true sports car, yet is still smooth and comfortable enough to > enjoy even the longest road trip."A tip about the grass. Below a certain speed, the off penalties will not
appear so if you know you have to go off course, get your speed down.
I don't remember if it's 30mph or 10 mph, but one of those will negate
off-penalties.
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (11 lines)
> [email hidden] (Don Schwartz Jr) wrote: > >> I'd say you'll be over 4 very soon > > Not if I repeat what happened yesterday during a push for 4. Racing with > some new rookies (all were faster than me, but a few were a lot more > inconsistent & dangerous) I had several deliberate grass excursions to > avoid trouble, and then a final lap T1 spin, leaving me face on into the > lapping traffic. My SR or blood pressure may never be the same again. :-) > > Andrew McPAndrew,
I am by far no setup wizard, but what helped me in the Skippy (especially
with those mid-turn lift and spin maneuvers) was to move the Spring Perch
settings from the + side to the - side. Be aware it tightens the car up so
you may need to counter this by upping the rear tire pressure a bit.
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (34 lines)
> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: > >> I Skipped almost immediately... > > Mmm... and now I'm only about 2s off the rookie Solstice pace at Lime > Rock. Lol! > > Ignoring that depressing statistic, the Skip Barber 2000 is very nice to > get into. I'd forgotten how claustrophobic those closed cockpits are > until someone took the sheet metal cutter to my car frame and delivered > something with a bit more breathing room. > > My first impression though was to rip the gearbox out and replace first > gear. I suspect it's kept deliberately long to minimise start line antics, > but it definitely masks the car's performance when you first put the foot > down looking for a little GPL-esque throttle action. > > Still, that's the least of my problems. Infineon is a tricky track. It's > one of those annoying places which seems to be infinitely configurable. > So you've got bits of spare tarmac and optional race line everywhere, > ready to lead your anticipation astray. Throw in several nasty blind > turns, some unfriendly camber, even less friendly 'grass', and a > surrounding landscape which -- like Laguna Seca -- is clearly suffering > from a bit of premature global warming, and you've got a fairly > challenging experience. It's taken me about 20 laps to feel even remotely > comfortable there... taking me down to about 1:58, which is only about > 12s off the pace, I believe. > > Ah, now I understand why Max Mosely gets such a thrill out of paying > people to beat him... iRacing is a taking a whip to my backside, and > showing me what a bad, bad, *bad* driver I've always been. > > Andrew 've haff means ant vays off makink you valk back to ze pits' McP >Uve,
Hang in there bud. Once you get to the Class C Mazda and Silver Crown, the
tendancy to 'bore out' goes down considerably.
Your progression is exactly like mine was:
Solstice/Legends - Oh, please PLEASE let me out of these things!
Skippy/Late Model - Fun, but becomes a bit stagnant after a while.
Mazda/Silver Crown - Now we're talking! You are too busy in these cars to
get bored :)
Bear with it. Long before December you'll be singing a different tune :)
-Larry
"hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:489c0f5d$0$11105$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (20 lines)
> > Hey Andy, > > thanks again for sharing your feelings and thoughts during your > iracing bout. It's always interesting to hear about another viewpoint, > and in most cases I totally agree with you (esp. the blood pressure > part and the bit about having to tape your hands to the wheel). > > Not meaning to put a "damper" on your new-found enthusiasm, but for > some reason the novelty and relative fun driving the Skippy after > being forced to drive the milk truck wore off after another week or so > (at least in my case). Hope you'll like it better, because I too > *want* to like iRacing, but in its current form it simply fails to > provide the motviation needed to keep going. My subscription lasts > until December, maybe they'll come up with something new that gets me > going again. > > All the best, > > UweAndrew MacPherson wrote:
> And finally... I've just noticed that the last race report (with the
> kicked out back end incident) shows no incidents reported. Maybe I got
> away with it after all. I certainly didn't the other day with the
> post-qualification prang though.
The incidents only show for the race laps. Warm up incidents and post
race incidents count against your SR but are not reported in the race
report.
Cheers
Tony
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> Oh bollox. I Skipped almost immediately... the buying process is very
> quick & easy, giving you no time to reconsider. That;s my excuse anyway
> and I;m sticking to it.
Resistance is futile...
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
>
>> I Skipped almost immediately...
>
> Mmm... and now I'm only about 2s off the rookie Solstice pace at Lime
> Rock. Lol!
Hmm, slowly I'm beginning to suspect a perfectly designed marketing campaign...
'I don't like it!' 'Aah, it's slow!' 'Hmm, that's better!' 'Wow, iRAcing rocks!'
Just kidding!
l8er
ronny
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
<snip>
>
> Maybe if they add the 'Ring to iRacing it'll help? Lol! Imagine what that
> track would cost to buy, based on the cost of existing tracks... probably
> about $200. :-)
That's why I can't wait for 'GTR Evolution' (Addon for Race07), which will
contain a (hopefully great) commercial version of the Ring (not to show
disrespect to the creators of the mod version of the green hell, of course).
l8er
ronny
Quoted text (11 lines)
> [email hidden] (hoover) wrote: > >> Not meaning to put a "damper" on your new-found enthusiasm, >> but for some reason the novelty and relative fun driving >> the Skippy after being forced to drive the milk truck wore >> off after another week or so > > The Skippy is not as much of a performance leap from the Solstice as I'd > hoped. But, being fair, it's probably the right sort of step up. I can > certainly make a real mess of Infineon driving it, so I guess it's more > than enough of a vehicle for me. :-)Ronald Stoehr wrote:
It is not an unusual progression. The iRacing forums have a number of
posts from first time racers who struggle to see how it is different to
any other form of pickup racing and the fact that sim racers who have
been driving the fastest cars competently are forced into a slow saloon
(which feels slower in a sim without any forces) can be a bit hard to
swallow.
Often it is these same unimpressed drivers who are the ones to then
extol its virtues as they move up to quicker cars and the ratings kick
in. The tricky bit is that it needs to be experienced to believe it - a
little like a teenager being told by an adult that too much beer will
make him ill :)
I think its tough marketing that - getting a driver to spend the seat
time and not dismiss it. I do wonder if there will opportunities to test
the faster cars free of charge when it moves beyond the sim enthusiasts.
Cheers
Tony
Quoted text (11 lines)
>>> I Skipped almost immediately... >> >> Mmm... and now I'm only about 2s off the rookie Solstice pace at Lime >> Rock. Lol! > > Hmm, slowly I'm beginning to suspect a perfectly designed marketing > campaign... > 'I don't like it!' 'Aah, it's slow!' 'Hmm, that's better!' 'Wow, iRAcing > rocks!' > > Just kidding!On Aug 8, 9:42 am, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:
They do count towards your safety rating, actually. But you still need
the minimum participation at 'current' (or by racing up) level to be
promoted at the end of the season.
Quoted text (48 lines)
> My understanding is that ONLY In-Class races count towards promotion. > > This is the section from the Rule Book: > > 2.4.3. Sessions must be completed by the driver in series with minimum > license eligibility > requirements that match the driver's current license level in a given > category. > > ***** Sessions completed in series for which the driver is only eligible by > virtue of a 4.0 or > higher Safety Rating (see section 2.9.2, "racing up") will count toward the > minimum > participation requirements. Sessions completed in series with minimum > license > eligibility requirements below the driver's current license level (see > section 2.9.3, > "racing down") will not count. ***** > > It appears this has been clarified a bit. If you race UP, by virtue of > having a 4.0 or higher SR, you DO get credit for those races. > > If you race DOWN, i.e. you are a Class C and decide to run some Late Model > Races, those do NOT count. > > That is why you met the requirements. You raced UP. > > Good for you :) > > -Larry > > "Ken MacKay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:JAmmk.4679$nu6.1514@edtnps83... > > > Larry wrote: > > > One other thing, and a lot of people miss this. For races/TT's to > > count > >> towards promotion, you must race IN-CLASS. You can race up, and you can > >> race down, but only IN-CLASS races/TT's will count towards promotion. I > >> think a few got bit by this the last cycle. This is one part I do thing > >> should be made clearer in da book. > > > Huh? As a rookie with SR at 3.x the adv slowstice races and TT counted > > towards SR, and as a rookie with 4.x SR the Skippy TT and races counted > > towards SR. And SR is the only thing that matters when it comes to > > promotions. It would really suck if you had to go back and do slowstice > > races after earning a promotion.On Aug 8, 9:57 am, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:
30mph.
Quoted text (23 lines)
> A tip about the grass. Below a certain speed, the off penalties will not > appear so if you know you have to go off course, get your speed down. > > I don't remember if it's 30mph or 10 mph, but one of those will negate > off-penalties. > > -Larry > > "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > [email hidden] (Don Schwartz Jr) wrote: > > >> I'd say you'll be over 4 very soon > > > Not if I repeat what happened yesterday during a push for 4. Racing with > > some new rookies (all were faster than me, but a few were a lot more > > inconsistent & dangerous) I had several deliberate grass excursions to > > avoid trouble, and then a final lap T1 spin, leaving me face on into the > > lapping traffic. My SR or blood pressure may never be the same again. :-) > > > Andrew McPSage advice....
Quoted text (13 lines)
>On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:54:15 -0400, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You guys are coming from SIMS like rFactor, GTR, GPL, etc... and being put >into MUCH slower and ill-handling cars. That is where the issue is. You >aren't used to it. > >We ALL had to suffer through this at least once. Just get yourself >graduated out of the Solstice and Legends and things will change >dramatically for you. > >Every soldier goes through Boot Camp :) > >-Larry[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote:
> Warm up incidents and post race incidents count
> against your SR
I see. I think it's safe to work on the assumption that every time I see
an incident message online, it's hurting! That way I'm never going to be
surprised.
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Larry) wrote:
> Every soldier goes through Boot Camp :)
Yes, but they don't have to pay for the 'pleasure'. :->
Andrew McP
On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:04:44 -0400, Larry wrote:
Hey Larry, thanks for your support. I had a chance to try the Mazda in
one of the earlier betas, and it didn't do much for me (but that may
have changed in one of the latest patches). I liked the Skippy better
than the earlier incarnation of the F-Mazda.
Right now I'm suffering from a bit of simracing "disillusionment" or
whatever one would like to call it, so maybe it's not exactly fair to
assess iR at the moment ;-)
All the best,
Uwe
Quoted text (14 lines)
> Uve, > > Hang in there bud. Once you get to the Class C Mazda and Silver Crown, the > tendancy to 'bore out' goes down considerably. > > Your progression is exactly like mine was: > > Solstice/Legends - Oh, please PLEASE let me out of these things! > Skippy/Late Model - Fun, but becomes a bit stagnant after a while. > Mazda/Silver Crown - Now we're talking! You are too busy in these cars to > get bored :) > > Bear with it. Long before December you'll be singing a different tune :) >On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:08:21 GMT, Ken MacKay wrote:
Yeah well, I thought "what the heck, this Skippy is fun", and as all
the content was free for the taking for beta testers I went with it,
wondering what else they'd come up with in this timeframe.
All the best, Uwe
--
Quoted text (7 lines)
> hoover wrote: >> My subscription lasts >> until December, maybe they'll come up with something new that gets me >> going again. > > I was shocked when you said you signed up for 6 months after all that > pissing and moaning in the iracing forums during the beta. ;-) IOn Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:08:05 +0200, Ronald Stoehr wrote:
>
> That's why I can't wait for 'GTR Evolution' (Addon for Race07), which will
> contain a (hopefully great) commercial version of the Ring (not to show
> disrespect to the creators of the mod version of the green hell, of course).
While I don't enjoy Race 07's physics (preferred GTR2's in fact),
it'll be great to see an rF conversion of an accurate Nordschleife
once the update is released. Then I'll be forced to buy GTR Evolution
in order to "legalize" my use of their content in rF ;-)
All the best, Uwe
--
LOLOLOL
=-=-=-=-=-
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (8 lines)
> [email hidden] (Larry) wrote: > >> Every soldier goes through Boot Camp :) > > Yes, but they don't have to pay for the 'pleasure'. :-> > > Andrew McP >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:y9Zmk.15163$[email hidden]:
Whats' the point of penalizing for going on the grass? Isn't the loss of
time enough of a penalty? They don't get penalized for touching the grass
in real racing.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> A tip about the grass. Below a certain speed, the off penalties will > not appear so if you know you have to go off course, get your speed > down. > > I don't remember if it's 30mph or 10 mph, but one of those will negate > off-penalties. > > -Larryhoover wrote:
I just received Race07 in the mail. While the physics are not bad, I
really prefer rF's (maybe just because I'm already used to rF too much).
So yes, I'm hoping for a conversion, too. Hmm, driving those 1995 ChampCars
on the Ring -> Schwiiingggggg! ;)
l8er
ronny
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:08:05 +0200, Ronald Stoehr wrote: >> That's why I can't wait for 'GTR Evolution' (Addon for Race07), which will >> contain a (hopefully great) commercial version of the Ring (not to show >> disrespect to the creators of the mod version of the green hell, of course). > > While I don't enjoy Race 07's physics (preferred GTR2's in fact), > it'll be great to see an rF conversion of an accurate Nordschleife > once the update is released. Then I'll be forced to buy GTR Evolution > in order to "legalize" my use of their content in rF ;-)[email hidden] (Wingwong Woo) wrote:
> Whats' the point of penalizing for going on the grass?
I suppose it fits into the iRacing ethos of encouraging safe racing. A
driver who spends a lot of time with a foot on the grass is more likely
to cause incidents than one who stays of the black stuff.
A simple off doesn't cost you too much SR, but they do add up if you're
not careful.
Andrew McP
"Wingwong Woo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:_6onk.69166$nD.62767@pd7urf1no...
Yeah, dont like that either. Like to see that modified so that you only
get penanlties for having no wheels on bitumen - a necessity to stop corner
cutting. But even then you get a scenario where you might need to go off
track to avoid an incident unfolding in front of you which is actually good
driving, yet you get a kick in the arse anyway. I do sympathise with the
programmers though - implementing any rules via software can seem an easy
thing at first glance but when you think about all the contingencies that
should ideally be covered it becomes a nightmare.
Quoted text (15 lines)
> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:y9Zmk.15163$[email hidden]: > >> A tip about the grass. Below a certain speed, the off penalties will >> not appear so if you know you have to go off course, get your speed >> down. >> >> I don't remember if it's 30mph or 10 mph, but one of those will negate >> off-penalties. >> >> -Larry > > Whats' the point of penalizing for going on the grass? Isn't the loss of > time enough of a penalty? They don't get penalized for touching the grass > in real racing.Except for practice SESSIONS, yes. They don't count in practice SESSIONS.
It still puts them up to remind you how bad a driver you are :)
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
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> [email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > >> Warm up incidents and post race incidents count >> against your SR > > I see. I think it's safe to work on the assumption that every time I see > an incident message online, it's hurting! That way I'm never going to be > surprised. > > Andrew McP >I sure had to pay for ALL my stuff in Boot Camp, other than clothes :)
In fact, they made me throw all the shit away I brought with me, then go
re-buy it again LOL
-Larry
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
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> [email hidden] (Larry) wrote: > >> Every soldier goes through Boot Camp :) > > Yes, but they don't have to pay for the 'pleasure'. :-> > > Andrew McP >I just spent a horrible weekend at Atlanta in the SilverCrown. I know the
feeling :)
-Larry
"hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:489daa9d$0$11100$[email hidden]...
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> Right now I'm suffering from a bit of simracing "disillusionment" or > whatever one would like to call it, so maybe it's not exactly fair to > assess iR at the moment ;-) > > All the best, > > UweActually, you get penalized if 1/2 the car goes off the track.
And that is all I will say about that :)
-Larry
"Wingwong Woo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:_6onk.69166$nD.62767@pd7urf1no...
Quoted text (15 lines)
> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:y9Zmk.15163$[email hidden]: > >> A tip about the grass. Below a certain speed, the off penalties will >> not appear so if you know you have to go off course, get your speed >> down. >> >> I don't remember if it's 30mph or 10 mph, but one of those will negate >> off-penalties. >> >> -Larry > > Whats' the point of penalizing for going on the grass? Isn't the loss of > time enough of a penalty? They don't get penalized for touching the grass > in real racing.> implementing any rules via software can seem an easy thing
> at first glance but when you think about all the contingencies that should ideally be covered it becomes a nightmare.
That doesn't excuse doing nothing at all. At least the predecessor,
NR2003 tried to implement some type of rules.
One obvious thing would be no penalty for avoiding or having contact
with one or more cars that were well below the normal speed for a
particular section of track.
Something strange is happening. I thought when I got to the Skippy I'd
enjoy myself more... be racing with people who'd come through the ranks a
little and could be trusted to race sensibly. Instead I've had three
races and in every race my SR has gone down due to...
Well, I guess it could be me. After all, if you see a lot of accidents,
chances are you're the problem, not them. ;-)
But I've had offs because drivers spun in front of me running before the
can walk. I've had collisions because drivers have spun off and been
impatient when passing me again... exhibiting 'I have the right of way
because I'm faster' type behaviour. I've had collisions when I slow down
to be lapped and they collect me with a nice little x4 for my trouble,
despite me being well over on one side of the track. And I've just --
going against the grain -- nearly had some fun!
Found a guy who was a little bit slower than me, but every time we were
getting into some kind of nip & tuck racing groove, either a recovering
spinner or lapping hotshot would put their oar in.
Anyway, that's racing I guess. But it's a real change from the Solstice
racing I had, where it was easy to be slow and considerate. My Skippy
experience so far is turning me off rather than on. I can get racing this
dodgy on any LFS server at any time of say for free! :-)
I suspect the trick will be to hang on for long enough to get put into
the dunce's league with all the other slow-pokes. At this rate though, I
may not make it that far.
Andrew McP
"jeffareid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1S6ok.20246$[email hidden]...
Ok. Obvious is it? What about easy to implement? How does the program
know that someone did not deliberately run into them?
Quoted text (11 lines)
>> implementing any rules via software can seem an easy thing >> at first glance but when you think about all the contingencies that >> should ideally be covered it becomes a nightmare. > > That doesn't excuse doing nothing at all. At least the predecessor, > NR2003 tried to implement some type of rules. > > One obvious thing would be no penalty for avoiding or having contact > with one or more cars that were well below the normal speed for a > particular section of track. >>> One obvious thing would be no penalty for avoiding or having contact
>> with one or more cars that were well below the normal speed for a
>> particular section of track.
> Ok. Obvious is it? What about easy to implement? How does the program know that someone did not deliberately run into
> them?
If a car is on the track going well below the normal speed, than any
contact is the slow car drivers fault, by definition. It's better than
having any contact be both drivers fault. With a damage system, why would
any player deliberately crash into another player, especially when the
"other" player is going very slow?
As far as deliberate wrecking goes, a service should include track
monitors or at least replay reviews (for complaints about wreckers).
jeffareid wrote:
Hmm, I'm sure, iRacing would have to think about their budget.
One guy per race just watching! Who's gonna pay?
10 complaints (just guessing) per race! Who's gonna check and who's paying?
Quoted text (15 lines)
>>> One obvious thing would be no penalty for avoiding or having contact >>> with one or more cars that were well below the normal speed for a >>> particular section of track. > >> Ok. Obvious is it? What about easy to implement? How does the program know that someone did not deliberately run into >> them? > > If a car is on the track going well below the normal speed, than any > contact is the slow car drivers fault, by definition. It's better than > having any contact be both drivers fault. With a damage system, why would > any player deliberately crash into another player, especially when the > "other" player is going very slow? > > As far as deliberate wrecking goes, a service should include track > monitors or at least replay reviews (for complaints about wreckers).When I did a little SCCA racing in San Diego, every racer had to stand as a
corner marshal for at least one session :)
-Larry
"Ronald Stoehr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:g7sjd8$7bb$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (22 lines)
> jeffareid wrote: >>>> One obvious thing would be no penalty for avoiding or having contact >>>> with one or more cars that were well below the normal speed for a >>>> particular section of track. >> >>> Ok. Obvious is it? What about easy to implement? How does the program >>> know that someone did not deliberately run into them? >> >> If a car is on the track going well below the normal speed, than any >> contact is the slow car drivers fault, by definition. It's better than >> having any contact be both drivers fault. With a damage system, why would >> any player deliberately crash into another player, especially when the >> "other" player is going very slow? >> >> As far as deliberate wrecking goes, a service should include track >> monitors or at least replay reviews (for complaints about wreckers). > > Hmm, I'm sure, iRacing would have to think about their budget. > > One guy per race just watching! Who's gonna pay? > 10 complaints (just guessing) per race! Who's gonna check and who's > paying?
"jeffareid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9Teok.17771$[email hidden]...
For fun. They like to wreck others.
