[Fwd: FORMULA T2 & GP2 SETUP & MORE]

writes A few comments against this..... This is not always true, and will depend upon how your car reacts in the first and last "phases" of a corner. These control understeer and oversteer during entry and exit of the corner. Again this will depend upon the circuit, the rest of your setup and the driving style. The fast damping controls what the TYRES are doing, the reactions when you hit kerbs or encounter a bumpy section of track. Here we really disagree. In real racecar setup the rebound damper is _always_ higher than the bump damper, probably 1.5, 2 or even 3 times higher, and GP2 performs the same way as far as I have found. Here we totally agree :) I've never found anyone's setup to completely suit me, and I think it is because while you are testing and developing a setup at a track, your driving style and setup are created together. Sometimes you make small adjustments to driving style to suit the car, and sometimes you change the setup to suit your driving style. When using someone else's setup you just can't copy their driving style. We have a setup guide coming in Sim Racing News soon, written by a ICR2/GP2 expert whose day job is.....testing and developing racecars and setups! :) His advice to me so far has been spot-on, not to mention very interesting reading, so we've asked him to do a full guide hopefully for the next issue. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \._____\ [link lost in import: /~harmon/simnews]

Ahh great John, Here you go again, letting us know how terrific the next SRN will be ;-) Oh well time to start counting until it comes out. Keep up the great work. Cheers. --John -- ------------------- John (Joao) Silva http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jsilva Seattle, Washington USA.

(John Wallace) says... The GP2 manual states that the pressure of the rebound damper is usually about 2/3 of the bump damper, because in corners the external tyre, that is the one which is rebounding, is ***. What I wonder is: is this reduction applied automatically by the game? I mean, if I set both dampers to the same value (there is no measure unit, so we don't know what those numbers mean), will the pressure of the rebound damper be 2/3 of the other, of have we to manually set the rebound damper to a lower value? -- Nicola Salmoria

No, the manual states the rebound damper is usually 2/3 TIMES that of the bump damper (i.e. - larger), not 2/3 of the value (which would be smaller). Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \._____\ [link lost in import: /~harmon/simnews]

Quoted text (14 lines)

>(John Wallace) says... >> Here we really disagree. In real racecar setup the rebound damper is >> _always_ higher than the bump damper, probably 1.5, 2 or even 3 times >> higher, and GP2 performs the same way as far as I have found. >The GP2 manual states that the pressure of the rebound damper is usually >about 2/3 of the bump damper, because in corners the external tyre, that >is the one which is rebounding, is ***. >What I wonder is: is this reduction applied automatically by the game? I >mean, if I set both dampers to the same value (there is no measure unit, >so we don't know what those numbers mean), will the pressure of the >rebound damper be 2/3 of the other, of have we to manually set the >rebound damper to a lower value? >-- >Nicola Salmoria

I'm confused about this myself. The manual says to set the rebound at 2/3 of the bump damper. This doesn't make sense in real racecars and I thought it was a misprint. While testing at Monza I set the dampers the way a racecar would be set-up (with the rebound damper faster/stronger) and the car went snakey. Putting the dampers back to the way the manual describes (with the damp bumper faster) and the car works great. No matter what the set-up was , it always worked better with the dampers set-up this way. So it would seem the sim car is based on a setup with a faster damp bumper, Can anyone else shed some light on this? ->->Mark Mann->->->->http://www.netrunner.net/~markmann ************************************** F1GP2 Racing League http://home.cwnet.com/randallc/gp2setup/index.html **************************************

Quoted text (12 lines)

>Subject: Re: [Fwd: FORMULA T2 & GP2 SETUP & MORE] >Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 07:43:29 +0100 >>The GP2 manual states that the pressure of the rebound damper is usually >>about 2/3 of the bump damper, because in corners the external tyre, that >>is the one which is rebounding, is ***. >No, the manual states the rebound damper is usually 2/3 TIMES that of >the bump damper (i.e. - larger), not 2/3 of the value (which would be >smaller). >Cheers! >John

Now you went and confused me again John! I was under the impression that when you multiply something by a fraction, you get a smaller number than the first. eg 3 * .6666667 = 2 9 * .6666667 = 6 So what is it? Is it '2/3 times' or '2 to 3 times'? I must admit, it came across to me that bump dampers were larger than rebound dampers, but I read a post from someone who is adamant it should be the other way around. Anyone?? No?? Damn! More testing!!! :) Ashraf --- DISCLAIMER: My comments are my own and not necessarily those of my employer OR my service provider. ************************************************************************** Ashraf Ghebranious "If it takes only one person to suppress your religion, then it cant be much of a religion then can it?" - me To find out more about the cult that is Scientology, subscribe to ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY. Dont get me wrong, these people are dangerous! "Jesus woman! I dont give a ***!" Rhett Butler, slightly paraphrased **************************************************************************

2/3 means "two to three", NOT "two thirds". Therefore the manual is correct in stating that rebound dampers ALWAYS be higher than bump dampers, and significantly so. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

Quoted text (19 lines)

> >The GP2 manual states that the pressure of the rebound damper is usually > >about 2/3 of the bump damper, because in corners the external tyre, that > >is the one which is rebounding, is ***. > No, the manual states the rebound damper is usually 2/3 TIMES that of > the bump damper (i.e. - larger), not 2/3 of the value (which would be > smaller). > Cheers! > John > _________________________________ > __ _____| |_____ __ > ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ > \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < > / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ > /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \._____\ > [link lost in import: /~harmon/simnews]

I'll have to agree with you John. The setting for the rebound-damper should be larger than that for the bump-damper. This keeps the car from being launched from the top of a bump. But when the difference gets to big you will lose grip, because than the car will like fall into a hole because of the wheel not returning fast enough. My experiance is the rebound should be between something like 1.1 and 2 TIMES the bump, depending on the circuit ofcourse. I'm not going to agree or disagree about the manual, since it's a kinda fuzzy, blurry story that's written down by obviously not a technician. I mean, fuzzy logic can work great, but fuzzy explanations never will. And since I have the Dutch manual, I can't trust the tanslation of anything in it. For instance translating 'kerbes' into 'trottoir-randen' wich means something like boardwalk-sides...eh...I might be doing the same as them here and be translating onto yet another thing...I mean the sides of the upped parts alongside a street that people walk on. And yep, I installed the English version. -- ************************* Dreammaster rules again ************************* Windows...brings you yesterday's speed today.

: No, the manual states the rebound damper is usually 2/3 TIMES that of : the bump damper (i.e. - larger), not 2/3 of the value (which would be : smaller). What? The manual says 2/3 TIMES.... No wonder I am having trouble figuring out these advanced settings. Everytime I've looked at the US manual it only says something like "Adjust the rebound dampers to obtain desired balance during steering transients... Set the slow rebound first and then the fast rebound. Terminate the adjustment when the preferred balance has been achieved." Yeh, real helpful, NOT! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

(John Wallace) says... Interesting. This is a translation error in the Italian manual, then. My question stands, however: do we have to set the rebound damper to 2/3 times the value of the bump damper, or is this adjustement done by the game? -- Nicola Salmoria

The manual uses a typeset fraction for 2/3, not 2 (slash) 3, so my guess is that your original view is correct. That is to say, the rebound damper should be set to a value smaller than the bump damper.

You have to do it. _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

Of course people can use whatever they want and whatever works for them, but in the real world, during my tests with GP2, and during the tests of those I know to be skilled at creating good setups, setting the rebound lower than the bump will NOT produce a good setup. _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

: 2/3 means "two to three", NOT "two thirds". Therefore the manual is : correct in stating that rebound dampers ALWAYS be higher than bump : dampers, and significantly so. Two to three times? Just how is it spelled out in your (UK) manual? My manual (Canada/US) uses a typeset fraction with 2 [superscript] / 3 [subscript]. If it was a normal set two slash three, then I would read it as two to/and/or three times. The way I infered it though, was the fraction two-thirds. I'll try it the other way tho, and see what happens. ...waiting for the (I hate to say it) yellow flag bug fix. I hate to spin, then get smacked by someone going full tilt boogie... __o _-\<,_ Cosmo Potapoff

< Hello John Wallace, can you send back all the information (to the newsgroup) you sent to me some days ago concerning SLOW DAMPERS & FAST DAMPERS setup ??? If you still remember,i was the one who've sent tips on DAMPERS,and with your reply, you gave me more hint on the way the DAMPERS should be adjusted.> To those who still ask,if 2/3rd of REBOUND compared to BUMP,it's definitly a typing error (or the author was sleeping). FRONT DAMPERS: Start with REBOUND # 2 times the BUMP # REAR DAMPERS :same thing. Recently i've been running consistently in the 1m23's at Silverstone for Qualifying and my setup for SLOW DAMPERS are as followed: LEFT FRONT RIGHT FRONT SLOW BUMP: 11 11 SLOW REBOUND: 20 20 LEFT REAR RIGHT REAR SLOW BUMP: 9 9 SLOW REBOUND: 16 16 These numbers are not absolute, as you can see it's close of being 2 time, depending of the rest of the setup,these setting could be changed easily to your needs. Personally for "medium speed" track, i never use more of 4 deg differential between FRONT/REAR WING, This makes my car very comfortable and controllable. Hope it will be of help to some... Eric

(John Wallace) says... Anyway, I haven't yet run on other circuits, but at Monaco I *HAD* to set the slow rebound damper lower than the slow bump, both front and rear, to obtain a driveable setup. And my best lap in practice is 1:15.958, so I am by no means slow ;-) I will try again to increase rebound/decrease bump and see if I can reach an even better setup. -- Nicola Salmoria