Hawaii skill level ceiling

I have a question. I started a new account, mostly to race with the lower level guys so it didn't get my main account in bad races. I have raced about 15-20 races and I'm already at a level 7. I NEVER expected to go that High that fast. My other account is an 11. I gained +80 points on a dega race I won. All it would take was a few good finishes by idiots to get from a 4 to 7 with no problem. I did 3-6 in about 5 races. I think you should have to prove yourself a bit more before the big jumps. Pup

I think ths skill system is unfair because there guys whohave a skill of 11+ but only race at dega. Maybe you should limit the total amount of skill points for a track and limit to our overall skill. say they master dega and have a track skill of 10 you should only make it a percentage of what the skill equals. maybe make it worth only a 2 so if people keep only racing dega the highest there going to get is a 2 thus making them race other tracks...

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> I think ths skill system is unfair because there guys whohave a skill of > 11+ but only race at dega. Maybe you should limit the total amount of > skill points for a track and limit to our overall skill. say they master > dega and have a track skill of 10 you should only make it a percentage of > what the skill equals. maybe make it worth only a 2 so if people keep > only racing dega the highest there going to get is a 2 thus making them > race other tracks...

First Bill tells us we can't smoke, now you want to tell us which tracks we should run. You and Slick Willie need to get a life and stay out of mine. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

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> I think ths skill system is unfair because there guys whohave a skill of > 11+ but only race at dega. Maybe you should limit the total amount of > skill points for a track and limit to our overall skill. say they master > dega and have a track skill of 10 you should only make it a percentage of > what the skill equals. maybe make it worth only a 2 so if people keep > only racing dega the highest there going to get is a 2 thus making them > race other tracks...

If you only race at 1 track, you will never get out of the Rookie Level. You must race (and improve) in all track classifications to move up to Amateur. The way Papyrus has engineered the skill level system for NRL will probably make even the 13s and 14s cry. To give you an idea, there are only 2 Amateurs at this moment. Everyone else is a Rookie. There are 3 levels above Amateur. I've heard arguments in this thread about removing the skill level ceiling. In NRL, the ceiling will never be reached. If they are going to do anything to the system, they should change the system to make it easier to fall, but NOT because of incidents. The way the system is now, the higher up you go the harder it is to climb AND the harder it is to fall. It should be easier to fall. Force drivers to have to consistantly finish higher in the standings to keep their rating. Since you drop the lowest 2 scores anyway, the 10s and 11s will hardly ever have a negative average. Consider this comparison. Level Move Up Move Down Now Move Down Should Be 0-3 +3 -3 -3 4-6 +6 -6 -1 7-9 +9 -9 1 10-12 +12 -12 3 13-15 +15 -15 5 I know this is a drastic change. The 'move down' averages can be adjusted to work the best. The interval still widens as you go up, but not as quickly. David Martin

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>I was just wondering if the powers-that-be at Papy have considered >removing the upper limit of 15 to the current skill level system? It >seems the limit is artificial, perhaps one that Papy never thought >anyone would reach very quickly. >I'd like to see the same system but with no ceiling, otherwise most of >us will eventually gravitate to level 15 and the skill level system >will no longer serve to distinguish between drivers. We already have >a handful of 13s, and I'm sure by September some of them will have >become 14s. And there's a whole slew of 12s on the system currently. >Perhaps the forthcoming rating system based on individual tracks will >make this point moot. >Comments? >Bill.

I don't see any reason for a ceiling either, Bill. However, I don't think we will see people advance quite as fast with the new incident penalties. In fact, I'm willing to bet that some of those 12's drop down a level or two over the next couple of months. Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

I agree I just dont think a person should have a skill of 12 when you look at there stats they have 350 starts at dega and maybe a handful anywhere else. I mean there really is not alot of skill at dega compared to tracks like Darlington C***te Pocono and Dover etc... So when I nominate a race at Darlington with skill set from 9-15 these guys can get in there and they suck there because they usually run at dega. and usually aint the word. Any way you guys know what your doing your doing a great job up there keep up the good work..

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> I was just wondering if the powers-that-be at Papy have considered > removing the upper limit of 15 to the current skill level system? It > seems the limit is artificial, perhaps one that Papy never thought > anyone would reach very quickly. > I'd like to see the same system but with no ceiling, otherwise most of > us will eventually gravitate to level 15 and the skill level system > will no longer serve to distinguish between drivers. We already have > a handful of 13s, and I'm sure by September some of them will have > become 14s. And there's a whole slew of 12s on the system currently. > Perhaps the forthcoming rating system based on individual tracks will > make this point moot. > Comments? > Bill.

Bill: Howdy! hey!...did you fall into another LNWD pothole at Loudon? As far as the ratings system goes...I believe that the newly instituted higher penalty for incidents...i.e. -4 for every incident if you're a 9 - 11, oughta slow down the meteoric rise of some, at least for the forseeable future. Is this ratings by track issue a fact based on info from Papy, or is it just speculation at this point? I was at the MP info site yesterday, for the first time in quite awhile, and noticed that it had all been changed. I really like the ranking by track idea, and am curious myself, if this is the future, will it replace the current system, or will the track ranking and a personal skill level go hand in hand? Keep in mind too that we're still going thru uncharted territory with the HAWAII experience and I have no doubt that PAPY will continue to refine the system as time goes on. I'm not sure about a ceilingless rating system though, a couple years from now you could be a 232 but what would that mean? that you're *really* fast or that ya just been doing it a looooonnnnggg time<g>. As a footnote here....this is my first post to RAS. I have been reading here on and off for the last couple months and occasionally find something interesting to read. I also have questions I'd like to ask but I'm afraid of getting tore up by someone who's been here longer and tired of hearing the same question asked over and over. Hate coming into the theatre in the middle of the movie too<g>. tom

I heard, forgot where, that you will have a different skill rating at each track. As for the personal rating, I believe that will be eliminated.

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> Is this ratings by track issue a fact based on info from Papy, or > is it just speculation at this point? I was at the MP info site > yesterday, for the first time in quite awhile, and noticed that it had > all been changed. I really like the ranking by track idea, and am curious > myself, if this is the future, will it replace the current system, or > will the track ranking and a personal skill level go hand in hand? > Keep in mind too that we're still going thru uncharted territory > with the HAWAII experience and I have no doubt that PAPY will continue to > refine the system as time goes on. I'm not sure about a ceilingless > rating system though, a couple years from now you could be a 232 but what > would that mean? that you're *really* fast or that ya just been doing it > a looooonnnnggg time<g>.

It is fact. In NRL, there will not be a skill rating that covers all tracks. You will be rated in each of 5 track groups. Your participation in certain races will be dependent on how consistant you are at all tracks. Those who only run at 1 or 2 tracks will be destined to stay on the bottom level, however, if they do participate in NRL, they will be forced to run on tracks like Dover, Loudon, etc. Sort of like pushing your child into the water to get over the fear. They will either learn to drive these tracks or they won't enter the races. Either way, they will not be a problem forever. Also, NRL sanctioned events will be monitered. Troublemakers will not be allowed to run for long before they are banned. David Martin

It is a fact that Papyrus is working on a new skill system. As I understand it, the tracks will be divided into 5 categories: Superspeedways, Speedways, 1-Mile Ovals, Short Tracks and Road Courses. You will have a rating for each category. However, you will not necessarily start out as a zero in each category, some of the skill rating will "spill over" into the other categories. They haven't mentioned it specifically that I remember, but I'd like to see an overall skill rating, perhaps just an average of the rating from all categories. Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

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> > I think ths skill system is unfair because there guys whohave a skill of > > 11+ but only race at dega. Maybe you should limit the total amount of > > skill points for a track and limit to our overall skill. say they master > > dega and have a track skill of 10 you should only make it a percentage of > > what the skill equals. maybe make it worth only a 2 so if people keep > > only racing dega the highest there going to get is a 2 thus making them > > race other tracks... > First Bill tells us we can't smoke, now you want to tell us which tracks > we should run. You and Slick Willie need to get a life and stay out of > mine. > -- > Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

He didn't say you can't run dega as much as you want. He just said you are not a skill 10 if that's the only place you are good. He is right. What good is system that let's you attain a high level when you go to Martinsville and get smoked by level 2 drivers. Not much. Dana Bailes

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>I was just wondering if the powers-that-be at Papy have considered >removing the upper limit of 15 to the current skill level system? It >seems the limit is artificial, perhaps one that Papy never thought >anyone would reach very quickly. >I'd like to see the same system but with no ceiling, otherwise most of >us will eventually gravitate to level 15 and the skill level system >will no longer serve to distinguish between drivers. We already have >a handful of 13s, and I'm sure by September some of them will have >become 14s. And there's a whole slew of 12s on the system currently. >Perhaps the forthcoming rating system based on individual tracks will >make this point moot. >Comments? >Bill.

A lot of what I have to say has already been addressed in other posts to this thread. The bottom line is that once the per track skill level system goes into place, the skill level system works great. Right now, people can race talladega only (& they sure do), and have a very high skill level. In the updated/NRL system, they would only have a high skill level at that one track, but they'd still be 0's at all the other tracks. Like David Martin pointed out, that person would be a Rookie. The other peice of the puzzle is the incident points. Yes, I know it's somewhat controversial, but trust me, it works & does what we want it to do. BTW, we keep the data on ALL races run on Hawaii & run any skill level ideas against that data. In other words, we run our ideas against thousands of races and thousands of users to model the effects. The bottom line is that it will take a VERY long time for anyone to become a 15 at any 1 track, never mind a 15 at all the tracks. With the NRL skill system, we have grouped all tracks into 5 "classes": super speedways, speedways, mile ovals, short ovals & road courses. In order to qualify for the Pro division of the NRL, for example, you will have to have a minimum skill level of 12 on at least 1 track in each of the classes. Additionally, you will have to have raced a minimum number of times on EVERY track. In other words, you will have to be a well rounded racer & you will have to have done a few laps around all the tracks in order to move up. What this all comes down to is that the 0-15 system works great. There is NO WAY that people will "gravitate" to 15's in the NRL... just like there is NO WAY that every racer in NASCAR will gravitate to Winston Cup. Ed Martin Producer, Series Director NASCAR Racing League Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

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>I think ths skill system is unfair because there guys whohave a skill of >11+ but only race at dega. Maybe you should limit the total amount of >skill points for a track and limit to our overall skill. say they master >dega and have a track skill of 10 you should only make it a percentage of >what the skill equals. maybe make it worth only a 2 so if people keep >only racing dega the highest there going to get is a 2 thus making them >race other tracks...

I agree...been saying that for awile. Level 10+ who only race at Tally aren't level 10 in my book. KenH

> The other peice of the puzzle is the incident points. Yes, I know > it's somewhat controversial, but trust me, it works & does what we > want it to do. But Ed, shouldn't repeat offenders be penalized more steeply, not experienced drivers. I really believe the system would work better if your second incident in the same race would cost you more, with the exception of dega. You could include Dega if incidents in the same 1/4 lap of the track should all count as 1 incident. Your second incident in a race should count -2, your third should count -4, your fourth should count -8 and so on. Once your car is damaged and you can not run the preferred line, you have no choice but to get out of the preferred line and thus out of harms way. If you choose to ignore common sense and get in an accident, you should be severely punished. My 2 cents, David Martin

Ed, Since you run all your new senarios on all the race logs, can we expect the new skill level policy to be retroactive back to the beginning of the EPOCH, so that everyone will know, truely according to Papyrus law, just how GOOD they are? David Martin

> The bottom line is that it will take a VERY long time for anyone to > become a 15 at any 1 track, never mind a 15 at all the tracks. > Ed Martin When will this new system go into effect? I hope before the NRL starts. Start it soon so I can race somewhere besides Dega. Dana Bailes

writes: >> I think ths skill system is unfair because there guys whohave a skill of >> 11+ but only race at dega. Maybe you should limit the total amount of >> skill points for a track and limit to our overall skill. say they master >> dega and have a track skill of 10 you should only make it a percentage of >> what the skill equals. maybe make it worth only a 2 so if people keep >> only racing dega the highest there going to get is a 2 thus making them >> race other tracks... >First Bill tells us we can't smoke, now you want to tell us which tracks >we should run. You and Slick Willie need to get a life and stay out of >mine. >-- >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA Chuck, The guys only speculating on IMPROVING the rating system, he's not telling you to do or not do anything! No matter how the system works you are free to race at any track you choose and Papy is free to make the rating system whatever they want it to reflect. AND they are going to make it show skills levels at EACH track. Me thinks the lady doth protest to much (Shakespeare) or if the shoe fits wear it. Bill also likes to stiffle debate.