SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<wbr>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>My Track Pack disk are bad and won't install corectly the pocono and >richmond tracks could someone please email these two trakcs to me. >Thanks >Jim I think you should take your request directly to Sierra/Papyrus. I'm sure they'll be able to help you, provided you purchased the track pack legally. Mike Radler

My Track Pack disk are bad and won't install corectly the pocono and richmond tracks could someone please email these two trakcs to me. Thanks Jim

>My Track Pack disk are bad and won't install corectly the pocono and >richmond tracks could someone please email these two trakcs to me. >Thanks >Jim If you call Sierra tech support, they will help you. 206-644-4343 Ed Martin Producer, Series Director NASCAR Racing League Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Hi Ed, A word about the new incident point ratings. I'm sure everyone there has given this a lot of thought and I understand the purpose but, in this case, I think you're wrong. Since there is no way to charge the points to the one causing the incident, increasing the penalty serves no purpose. The new system encourages the crash and burn type who couldn't care less about their skill level and discourages those of us trying to improve. If you***up, your skill rating will reflect it. There is no point in spending this kind of money trying to maintain a decent skill rating under the current scoring system. I think I'll just sit out awhile. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

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>Hi Ed, >A word about the new incident point ratings. I'm sure everyone there has >given this a lot of thought and I understand the purpose but, in this >case, I think you're wrong. Since there is no way to charge the points >to the one causing the incident, increasing the penalty serves no >purpose. The new system encourages the crash and burn type who couldn't >care less about their skill level and discourages those of us trying to >improve. If you***up, your skill rating will reflect it. There is no >point in spending this kind of money trying to maintain a decent skill >rating under the current scoring system. I think I'll just sit out >awhile. >-- >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

I think Papyrus has taken a step in the right direction. The problem with the existing system was that you could bump someone going into the corner, take 1 point for an incident and make 1-5 points for gaining a position, netting you 0-4 points. That's a no-lose proposition. This way, if you're a high enough skill level at best you're going to break even, but chances are you're going to end up on the losing end. The only thing I'd like to see is a way to "derate" the short tracks, where a little bumping is expected. Bristol is going to be a skill-killer with the new points system. Dave "davids" Sparks Late Nite League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

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>>Hi Ed, >>A word about the new incident point ratings. I'm sure everyone there has >>given this a lot of thought and I understand the purpose but, in this >>case, I think you're wrong. Since there is no way to charge the points > it's seems to not be worth the >long distance calls anymore. The only alternative is to run races with >only high rated drivers but then it can take forever to get a race >started. I guess we can't *** too much though because it is still >in testing so if this doesn't work out, maybe they'll try something >else. I think the exact oppoisite of what they have just changed >would be much better. it might send a message to the constant >"wreckers" that it's not worth it. The way it is now doesn't give >them the slightest reason to grow up.

I correct myself. the other alternative is to run league races but i don't enjoy racing on every track and to be completely honest, I suck at some of them so I'm saving myself and others from my mistakes. Oh well ; ) Mike Lewis

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> >Hi Ed, > >A word about the new incident point ratings. I'm sure everyone there has > >given this a lot of thought and I understand the purpose but, in this > >case, I think you're wrong. Since there is no way to charge the points > >to the one causing the incident, increasing the penalty serves no > >purpose. The new system encourages the crash and burn type who couldn't > >care less about their skill level and discourages those of us trying to > >improve. If you***up, your skill rating will reflect it. There is no > >point in spending this kind of money trying to maintain a decent skill > >rating under the current scoring system. I think I'll just sit out > >awhile. > >-- > >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA > I think Papyrus has taken a step in the right direction. The problem with > the existing system was that you could bump someone going into the corner, > take 1 point for an incident and make 1-5 points for gaining a position, > netting you 0-4 points. That's a no-lose proposition. This way, if you're a > high enough skill level at best you're going to break even, but chances are > you're going to end up on the losing end.

I may be slow but thats not my kind of racing. Besides, in the long run I think you would end up taking yourself out and finishing back in the field enough times to make it a break even proposition at best. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

writes: >> >Hi Ed, >> >A word about the new incident point ratings. I'm sure everyone there has >> >given this a lot of thought and I understand the purpose but, in this >> >case, I think you're wrong. Since there is no way to charge the points >> >to the one causing the incident, increasing the penalty serves no >> >purpose. The new system encourages the crash and burn type who couldn't >> >care less about their skill level and discourages those of us trying to >> >improve. If you***up, your skill rating will reflect it. There is no >> >point in spending this kind of money trying to maintain a decent skill

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>> >rating under the current scoring system. I think I'll just sit out >> >awhile. >> >-- >> >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA >> I think Papyrus has taken a step in the right direction. The problem

with >> the existing system was that you could bump someone going into the corner, >> take 1 point for an incident and make 1-5 points for gaining a position, >> netting you 0-4 points. That's a no-lose proposition. This way, if you're a >> high enough skill level at best you're going to break even, but chances are >> you're going to end up on the losing end. >I may be slow but thats not my kind of racing. Besides, in the long run >I think you would end up taking yourself out and finishing back in the >field enough times to make it a break even proposition at best. >-- >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA Yes, but the bad part is this; I ran one race last night (Thursday 8/15). In this one race there was a guy (JIMD) who would not let me by. He was MUCH slower than me, and every time I tried to go by, he turned into me. End result? I lost 45 points because of this punk not wanting to get passed. I guess I will only race league races from now on. JIMD if you are reading this....YOU SUCK. Mike (Parnelli)

Mike, I know exactly how you feel. I've had that problem the 3 times I raced on Hawaii. It looks like what you must do, is get yourself a partner, and each of you take differ directions to pass. After that, you (or your partner) will be ahead of the car, you can then show him his own medicine and block him out, and let your partner get by. Oh well, it's confusing, but find some drafting partner, he can help you out. If you want to be drafting partners with me sometime, please let me know, my Screen Name is Simspeed so you can find me. See you, Mark Fields

> > My Track Pack disk are bad and won't install corectly the pocono and > > richmond tracks could someone please email these two trakcs to me. > > Thanks > > Jim Sorry,Jim...NO. You know you need to contact Papyrus for replacements!! It's a matter of legality! And they will be most willing help you out. rgs

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> Yes, but the bad part is this; I ran one race last night (Thursday > 8/15). In this one race there was a guy (JIMD) who would not let me by. > He was MUCH slower than me, and every time I tried to go by, he turned > into me. > End result? I lost 45 points because of this punk not wanting to get > passed. I guess I will only race league races from now on. > JIMD if you are reading this....YOU SUCK. > Mike (Parnelli) > I believe what Papyrus is trying to do is make the skill level system a

little more credible. There are people with high skill levels that are really not as good as they should be to be at that level. They are basically taking advantage of the fact that there are only a handful of good racers using Hawaii at this point to get a high skill level which will be carried on to the NRL. I myself have reached level 7 and probably have less than 50 races on the system. I usually finish high and have few if any incidents, but it seems pretty easy to move up. Papy probably intended the system to be something like a multi tiered class system: 0-5 Occasiional racers who only get on for fun 6-10 Semi-serious racers who enjoy working on setups and practicing on driving and mixing it up with friends. The league bowler type. The vast majority of Hawaii users should be in this group. 11-15 The highly experienced and talented true racers who must always try to drive in a professional manner in order to maintain this level. This class must not only be fast, but clean and level headed at all times. It should be very difficult to get here. They may see it a little differently but I am sure they are seeing too many people reaching the upper levels that probably are jeopardizing the credibility of the skill level system. This may be just an interim measure until the system is revised to show skill on different track types. I would like to see comments from Ed on this subject up here. I would hate to see good competitors become offended and leave because they feel they are being shorted. A simple explanation may help here. Mike you may want to practice setting up to pass in a position where the other car can't turn into you. Try going under him in a corner you know he is pushing badly. The key thing to remember is you are the only one responsible for your car. Don't expect others to just let you go all the time. Unless he is off the pace, weaving back and forth, and only looking in his rear view, you should be able to get by with a little patience. Dana Bailes Hawaii: DBailes

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> I believe what Papyrus is trying to do is make the skill level system a >little more credible. There are people with high skill levels that are >really not as good as they should be to be at that level. They are >basically taking advantage of the fact that there are only a handful of >good racers using Hawaii at this point to get a high skill level which >will be carried on to the NRL. I myself have reached level 7 and >probably have less than 50 races on the system. I usually finish high >and have few if any incidents, but it seems pretty easy to move up. >Papy probably intended the system to be something like a multi tiered >class system: > 0-5 Occasiional racers who only get on for fun > 6-10 Semi-serious racers who enjoy working on setups and > practicing on driving and mixing it up with friends. > The league bowler type. The vast majority of Hawaii > users should be in this group. > 11-15 The highly experienced and talented true racers who > must always try to drive in a professional manner in > order to maintain this level. This class must not > only be fast, but clean and level headed at all times. > It should be very difficult to get here. >They may see it a little differently but I am sure they are seeing too >many people reaching the upper levels that probably are jeopardizing the >credibility of the skill level system. This may be just an interim >measure until the system is revised to show skill on different track >types. I would like to see comments from Ed on this subject up here. >I would hate to see good competitors become offended and leave because >they feel they are being shorted. A simple explanation may help here.

[snip] >Dana Bailes >Hawaii: DBailes You make some good points, Dana. There are a few of us who have been vocal about the inequities in the skill system. Prior to the recent change, there was very little to encourage drivers to drive cleanly, particularly when damage is turned off for many races. Second, there is a sort of 2-tier system, those who race Talladega a lot, and those who don't. The way to make points is to finish well in a large field and Talladega attracts large fields. Papyrus has addressed the first problem with the new incident penalties. I'm not sure how it's going to work out, but it will surely make it harder for the people who race Talladega a lot to advance, because that tends to be where the multiple-point incidents occur that will kill your skill rating. Second, Papyrus has indicated that a new skill system is in the works that will divide the tracks into 5 classes. Your performance on each of the types of tracks will be rated separately, so a Talladega 12 might be only a 6 at another type of track. I think there are a couple more issues that Papyrus should address. Races with damage off or arcade damage should score less points than an equivalent race with realistic damage. Longer races should score more points. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens to the skill levels after this latest change. Dave "davids" Sparks Late Nite League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

Stay away from Dega 0-15!!!!! Big time bad news. Race in at least 4-15 and up usually keeps the smash-up derby guys out, as they are usually 0-1 skill. Not always but most times they are half decent races. Had one of the most fun and competitive races yet last night. It was Dega 10% 8-15 skill 120 deg. Drafted for 18 laps trading places with 2 other drivers every couple of laps. Really close racing but no hitting. If you are not a high skill yet, take a provisional at Dega a few times and wait a few seconds after the start. If it is a big race you are bound to gain about 10-20 spots by the massive first turn accident---never fails in a 0-15 dega wreckfest. Do this a bunch-even though it is not as fun, and soon you will move up in skill and out of the Bonehead races. Dave Smith hawaii--dwsmith

writes: >>>Yes, but the bad part is this; I ran one race last night (Thursday >>>8/15). In this one race there was a guy (JIMD) who would not let me by. >>>He was MUCH slower than me, and every time I tried to go by, he turned

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>>>into me. >>>End result? I lost 45 points because of this punk not wanting to get >>>passed. I guess I will only race league races from now on. >>>JIMD if you are reading this....YOU SUCK. >>>Mike (Parnelli) >>Mike, I know exactly how you feel. I've had that problem the 3

times I >raced on Hawaii. >>It looks like what you must do, is get yourself a partner, and each of you >take differ >>directions to pass. After that, you (or your partner) will be ahead of the >car, you can >>then show him his own medicine and block him out, and let your partner get >by. >>Oh well, it's confusing, but find some drafting partner, he can help you >out. >>If you want to be drafting partners with me sometime, please let me know,

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>my Screen >>Name is Simspeed so you can find me. >>See you, >>Mark Fields >Stay away from Dega 0-15!!!!! Big time bad news. Race in at least

4-15 >and up usually keeps the smash-up derby guys out, as they are usually 0-1 >skill. Not always but most times they are half decent races. Had one of >the most fun and competitive races yet last night. It was Dega 10% 8-15 skill >120 deg. Drafted for 18 laps trading places with 2 other drivers every >couple of laps. Really close racing but no hitting. If you are not a high >skill yet, take a provisional at Dega a few times and wait a few seconds >after the start. If it is a big race you are bound to gain about 10-20

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>spots by the massive first turn accident---never fails in a 0-15 dega >wreckfest. Do this a bunch-even though it is not as fun, and soon >you will move up in skill and out of the Bonehead races. >Dave Smith >hawaii--dwsmith

I don't race at Dega anymore. This race was a 4-15 at Michigan. Mike

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> I agree Chuck, It's definetely not fair to those of us who have spent > hours and hours building up our skill levels and dealing with all the > "zeros" who cause wreck after wreck. Since us safe drivers now get > penalized worse than the beginners, it's seems to not be worth the > long distance calls anymore. The only alternative is to run races with > only high rated drivers but then it can take forever to get a race > started. I guess we can't *** too much though because it is still > in testing so if this doesn't work out, maybe they'll try something > else. I think the exact oppoisite of what they have just changed > would be much better. it might send a message to the constant > "wreckers" that it's not worth it. The way it is now doesn't give > them the slightest reason to grow up.

I don't think anything will keep the poor sports out of the service with the possible exception of the mailman, since he brings the phone bill. People that intentionally cause wrecks do not understand what competition and sportsmanship are about. Until they learn that they are supposed to be racing on Hawaii and not playing a Deathmatch, they will continue to be irresponsible. Some people just never understand motorsports so there should be a method to weed them out. I have a good idea to deal with these people. Add -1 and -2 skill levels. If you go below -2 you are suspended from the system for a month or two. Or three. Or four. <g> This may work to some degree. I personally feel it should be a little tougher. Boot 'em if they go below 0. They may get bored if they have to sign up with a new name every time they log on. Dana Bailes Hawaii: DBailes

My personal opion on incidents is that you should still get the same points taken away in a no damage race as you do for Full damage race. I think that an incident is an incident, just because you don't have car damage didn't mean you didn't get in one. I mainly race No damage races on the tracks that I don't know very well. I wouldn't mind if I got minus points for smacking into another car. That will help everyone race cleaner. Higgy

I used to do that very thing, start in the back. I used to be able to qualify at best 10th in a 36 field. That is were the wrecking starts. I've seen 4 wide in turn 1, if you see that you know it's going to happen and there's nothing you can do. BAMMM into the wall or other cars you go because some moron is trying to gain ONE place by passing on the grass almost. He hits the guy next to him and 20 cars are out before 100 yards. Now I can qual in top 3 almost every race, at dega. So I don't have to worry about the morons in the middle of the pack making bad moves. How did I achieve the better qual speeds? Practice off-line in Multi. Yes that's right Practice your setup and definatley your line. Higgy