GP2: Wing downforce, unrealistic?

Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 (lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and Indycar II. Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2. -- Richard Cowl

: Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 : (lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end : to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a : lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest : curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this : configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and : Indycar II. : Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2. Driving with any driving aids? I think there are some major differences in the real world between F1 & Indycars. The have a completely differenct approach to downforce. I suspect, but could be wrong, that the F1 car produces greater downforce than the Indycars. I've heard alot of people complain about ICR2's handling characteristics. This was enhanced with the "traction" bug, but the patch seems to have at least made the handling consistant. I think that these complaints have been unjustified. If one closely follows the CART season, they will have seen numerous examples of the loose rear of an Indycar. I mean watch the masters shake and twitch their rear ends trying to get the power down coming out of slow corners. How many times has Paul Tracy seen his rear come around on him? Even some of the "smoothest" drivers have been bitten by this (Bobby Rahal for example). I still feel that GP2 over-simulates greater control than ICR2. I still can't believe that in the real world one can take the Parabolica, pour on the power, pull the wheel hard right and have the car stick as if I was going straight. No grip loss, no fading to the left. It just seems unreal. (This is with no driving aids, rear wing 1 and front from 4-6). But, then maybe an F1 car can really do this... This corner feels alot like the Turn 7 at Burke Lakefront, Cleveland. This is another corner that if setup right, one can start pouring on the power through the corner. However, in ICR2, the car drifts left. The more power applied the greater the drift. In GP2 I don't really feel the drift. The car either turns under power or doesn't. There is very little drift. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 08:43:33 +0100, Richard Cowl

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 >(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end >to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a >lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest >curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this >configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and >Indycar II. > Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2.

I`ve used setups from very quick hotlaps with wings setup similar to yours and I`ve found the car undrivable, the backend stepping out all the time.

Quoted text (10 lines)

>On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 08:43:33 +0100, Richard Cowl >>Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 >>(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end >>to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a >>lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest >>curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this >>configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and >>Indycar II.

Well, what is the fairly good time you achieved? Fact is, at such a slow track, maybe you are seeing the result of not even enough speed to get the wings as important as springs/shocks/etc. I tend to find on that course that the key was getting the front wing to the max before it started to degrade rear-wing performance, then do the rest of the adjustments on ride-height and springs. My times are not amazing, but I'm winning at "semi-pro" with them (1:02 or so? I can't quite remember).

Quoted text (14 lines)

> On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 08:43:33 +0100, Richard Cowl > >Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 > >(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end > >to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a > >lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest > >curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this > >configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and > >Indycar II. > > Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2. > I`ve used setups from very quick hotlaps with wings setup similar to > yours and I`ve found the car undrivable, the backend stepping out all > the time.

This is because they use steering hel. You can add ridiculous wing values with st help on and not suffer oversteer. They key is not addindg to much front wing to mask the airflow over the rear wing. I find the front wing must be no more than 3-4 values higher than the rear(with no hlp on tat is!)

On Aug 12, 1996 16:49:19 in article <Re: GP2: Wing downforce,

Quoted text (20 lines)

>>On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 08:43:33 +0100, Richard Cowl >>>Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 >>>(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end >>>to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a >>>lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest >>>curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this >>>configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and >>>Indycar II. >Well, what is the fairly good time you achieved? Fact is, at such a >slow track, maybe you are seeing the result of not even enough speed >to get the wings as important as springs/shocks/etc. >I tend to find on that course that the key was getting the front wing >to the max before it started to degrade rear-wing performance, then do >the rest of the adjustments on ride-height and springs. My times are >not amazing, but I'm winning at "semi-pro" with them (1:02 or so? I >can't quite remember).

Do you mean you can get one lap of 1:02? No, were talking about the hungoraring right? I dont think a 1:02 is possible, I dont think people can even beat the times that the real drivers set there this week (1:17) Maybe your were talking about something else, but I thought I'd just point that out. -- ~RGordon~

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 >(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end >to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a >lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest >curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this >configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and >Indycar II. > Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2. >-- >Richard Cowl

I`m _guessing_ you have steering help on. If you use a keyboard you can`t switch it off. If you do have this on the computer tends to look after the oversteer for you, allowing you to brake extremely late for corners and still get the car round. If you don`t have this on then your reactions and car control are a lot better than mine! Mark _________________________________ "..every lap I think `Oh bollocks! This is dreadful..`" Damon Hill __________________________________

Quoted text (18 lines)

|> |> |> >Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 |> >(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end |> >to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a |> >lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest |> >curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this |> >configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and |> >Indycar II. |> > Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2. |> >-- |> >Richard Cowl |> |> I`m _guessing_ you have steering help on. If you use a keyboard you |> can`t switch it off. If you do have this on the computer tends to |> look after the oversteer for you, allowing you to brake extremely late |> for corners and still get the car round. If you don`t have this on |> then your reactions and car control are a lot better than mine!

Not necessarily related to steering help. When I use the keyboard (i.e. with steering help), I can always swing the back end of the car and lose control, with a bad setup. You can always countermeasure this by tweaking the anti-sway bars, the suspensions etc. I usually set my front wings 100% more than the rear wings. Except in the slow and high down force circuits like Monaco and Hungary. The rear wings have a greater drag on a car's top speed than the front wings. -- My $0.02 (MSRP, plus shipping and handling, and applicable taxes. O.A.C., license, registration, PDI, freight, and insurance extra. Price subject to change without notice. Cash discounted, credit cards please add 3%)

On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 08:43:33 +0100, Richard Cowl >Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 >(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end >to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a >lap in a fairly good time. What do you mean with *_fairly good_* ? Iam driveing around 1.18.1xx with rear wing at 12. No Helps at all, and T2 with shifters on wheel. With rear wing lower 10, I would not get quicker as 1.20.xxx, and thats a huge difference. Cheers Thomas --- Get up, dive down, no problem

1:15.2xx has already been done - no driver aids at all. You're right though, we're already at the stage of shaving tenths, and 1:13 or so is probably the lowest. 1:02 - no way! Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

>Do you mean you can get one lap of 1:02? Let's see... I guess I'm of by... 17 seconds! My best time is 1:19.760.

Quoted text (16 lines)

>>Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 >>(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end >>to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a >>lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest >>curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this >>configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and >>Indycar II. >> Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2. >>-- >>Richard Cowl >I`m _guessing_ you have steering help on. If you use a keyboard you >can`t switch it off. If you do have this on the computer tends to >look after the oversteer for you, allowing you to brake extremely late >for corners and still get the car round. If you don`t have this on >then your reactions and car control are a lot better than mine!

Sorry, I forgot to state that the above observations were made with no help on. I will make a note of some lap times on Hungeroring with the zero rear wing settup. My times (normal settup) are not paticularly fast on this circuit, about 1:23. -- Richard Cowl

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Practicing at Hungororing, I tried lowering the rear wing setting to 1 >(lowest posible setting, front wing at 10). I was expecting the back end >to spin out at the first turn but it held and I managed to complete a >lap in a fairly good time. The back end was a bit loose on the fastest >curves but I was expecting the car to be virtually undriveable with this >configuration, as it would be in other driving sims such as f1gp v2 and >Indycar II. > Is this realistic car behaviour? or a fault in GP2.

Low rear wing setup is really hard to drive in Hungaroring. Must be the steering help aiding here. OTOH, front wing seems not to be so important... at least if you happen to lose it. During a race in Hungary I lost the front wing on the lap two and decided not to get it fixed as the race was only 12 laps long. A good decision, I continued turning out lap times of 1:25 consistently (my best is 1:23:xxx, no helps except traction, proc.occ. ~80%). Outside views showed that I had lost the front wing on both sides. Even losing the whole front section does not hinder the driving too much, either :( --

Quoted text (7 lines)

> OTOH, front wing seems not to be so important... at least if you > happen to lose it. During a race in Hungary I lost the front wing > on the lap two and decided not to get it fixed as the race was > only 12 laps long. A good decision, I continued turning out lap > times of 1:25 consistently (my best is 1:23:xxx, no helps except > traction, proc.occ. ~80%). Outside views showed that I had lost > the front wing on both sides.

I noticed front wing is quite important in cornering when I was racing at Magny Cours 2 days ago in my championship season. During the race I lost the front wing when collided with Schumacher. I was running second before the collision. After the collision the AI cars are much faster and Hill began to overtake me just 2 laps before the chequered flag. Coulthard also trying to do so, but failed. I noticed that I can't have high speed cornering as before. I need to slow down a lot for the grip. Anyway, I managed to finish second, 4.5 minutes behind Hill and only 0.6 second in front of Coulthard. The collision and the front wing caused me the 1st position. :-( Richard