I take it then that you havent been to IMOLA, MONOCO, PORTUGUL and
others in GP2? They all have wonderful hills and cambers. Not a flame
just puzzled.
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
>I take it then that you havent been to IMOLA, MONOCO, PORTUGUL and
>others in GP2? They all have wonderful hills and cambers. Not a flame
>just puzzled.
>Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
< My original posts praising ICR2's track camber snipped>
Hi PAPA DOC:
Thanks for responding.
Nope! At your suggestion, I looked at Estoril, Monaco and Imola. I
see hills, I don't see track camber. There is a certain effect where two
road sections, with two different angles, join, at Loews for example. At
this point there might be a SLIGHT dip one way or the other. I'm not
sure, its subtle. I have the feeling it's more a computer-geometry
issue than an effort to duplicate a track feature.
Put a wheel on one of the raised curbs, that side goes up, and you
KNOW you're rolling. This is the visual effect of camber what I'm
NOT seeing in GP2.
Do you have a tape of yesterday's German GP? I'm watching it as I
edit this. The chicane that is the start of Ostkurve has a camber and
dip that is unlike anything I've seen in GP2. The rest of the track is
pretty flat, but the off track camera suggests that several corners have
camber that we don't get in GP2.
Side by side examination shows Shumacher twice as fast through
Ostkurve's cambered and dipped chicane in real life as in the flat one
in GP2. Senna curve, called Chicane 2 in GP2 docs, seems to be
negotiated in about the same time. This curve is flat in reality and
in GP2.
Try this PAPA DOC. Get IndyCar, come to my home town of Portland,
which is a very flat track, and do a lap. Check out turns 1 and 1a.
these have camber, it happens to be opposite camber. I haven't seen
anything like that on GP2.
GP2 is GREAT, time will tell, but right now I think it will replace
ICR2 as my favorite.
Can't wait for Visiware's Starting Grid.
Larry
> One of the many things that made ICR superior, in my view, to World
> Circuit is track camber.
I take issue with "many" :-)
> I take it then that you havent been to IMOLA, MONOCO, PORTUGUL and
> others in GP2? They all have wonderful hills and cambers. Not a flame
> just puzzled.
Hills yes, camber no. Sometimes it _looks_ cambered, like the new
chicane at Estoril, but that's just because the track elevation
increases through the corner. I don't believe GP2 is capable of
true camber, like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, or any Indycar oval.
Whether it models camber in the physics even though it doesn't
visually, I am not sure, but I think not.
- Craig ("Strobe").
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/strobie/gp2util.htm
I agree entirely.
GP2 and GP1 produce close racing and lots of eye candy, wheras Indycar
and INDY500 keep attention to the driving model and the track layout.
I tend to think that the two things do not go hand in hand. If the
driving model was ultra-realistic, the majority of people would not
get into hard fought racing battles.
Your point about camber is spot on. It doesn't however detract from
the overall enjoyment of GP2, it just shows that it is a game and not
a simulator.
Indycar, spot on driving model. GP, good fun.
That's the way I see it, realism or fun.
Unfortunately, if you want realism, you gotta sit with your arse a
half inch off the floor and move it along at 200mph, and if you want
fun you gotta play against other people, real people.
Neither game does this for me at the moment.
There's a long, long way to go.
Norm
Oh, and by the way, you split the newsgroup and you loose a lot of
potential. At the end of the day, we're all gonna be on the same
tracks.
:I take it then that you havent been to IMOLA, MONOCO, PORTUGUL and
:others in GP2? They all have wonderful hills and cambers. Not a flame
:just puzzled.
:
:Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
I agree with the original poster - GP1 & 2 just have hills, but at any
given point, the left and right-hand sides of the track are at the
same height.
Portland has wonderful off-camber bends, and Laguna has the corkscrew
- these are the effects that the original poster is referring to.
SRN mentioned that F1 from Bizzare has the big lump in the road at
*** (?) that you have to make a point of driving round.
I've noticed that there actually is gravity in GP2 - stop at the end
of the Lesmos at Monza, touch the throttle, and you will roll down the
hill - very slowly, but in GP1 you'd stop dead even on the hill out of
La Source.
Contrast this to ICR2 - you can feel the engine struggling as you
climb up to the corkscrew at Laguna.
ICR2's hills drive like hills, GP2's don't.
Not a flame either - I love both sims, but they both have their own
particular strengths and weaknesses, and gradient is one of ICR2's
best aspects.
:
:
:> One of the many things that made ICR superior, in my view, to World
:>Circuit is track camber.
:> While watching the German GP Sunday, I noticed that the real track
:>has camber and dips in some of the corners that GP2, like it's predecessor,
:>doesn't.
:> I LOVE GP2, but let's give ICR credit for this feature.
:> This is not a slam against GP2. Every sim is a compromise. I think
:>Geoff Crammond made the right decisions. But let's give Papyrus credit
:>for this important feature.
:> Visiware, will Starting Grid have track camber?
:> Thanks
:> Larry
:
Ken
One of the many things that made ICR superior, in my view, to World
Circuit is track camber.
While watching the German GP Sunday, I noticed that the real track
has camber and dips in some of the corners that GP2, like it's predecessor,
doesn't.
I LOVE GP2, but let's give ICR credit for this feature.
This is not a slam against GP2. Every sim is a compromise. I think
Geoff Crammond made the right decisions. But let's give Papyrus credit
for this important feature.
Visiware, will Starting Grid have track camber?
Thanks
Larry
[...]
... which is a little odd, given the fact that it does model the
car being tilted, for instance when using a lot of curb. I hadn't
noticed this at Imola but now I've started testing at Jerez, I
notice that when driving along a curb for an extended period of
time you can see that the world is slanted.
--
<snip>
But the world _is_ slanted <g>
Richard
>SRN mentioned that F1 from Bizzare has the big lump in the road at
>*** (?) that you have to make a point of driving round.
The.Amiga.version.of.GP1.had.that,.as.I.recall.
Even.more.fun.is.to.sit.sideways.on.a.hill...You'll.still."roll".down
it...sideways!...Excuse.me?!
Yes...Even.the.old.I500.had.physically.accurate.elevation.in.the
banking.at.Indianapolis...It's.a.really.important.factor.that.I've
admired.Papyrus.for.since.way.back.then.
Yes,.my.space.bar.is.not.working.at.the.moment...Please.pardon.my.dots,
but.this.is.much.quicker.than.typing.ALT+32.between.every.word.
--
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