Setups, HELP MEEEEEeeee!

I've been racing Indycar and Nascar since they came out, and have been able to setup cars to run competitively against the AI cars. With the advent of hawaii, I've had to work quite a bit harder in order to be competitive with the HI (Human Intelligence) contingent. I usually start with the Ace setup and make the changes I feel are necessary to get the performance I am looking for. Where I have trouble, is finding that last mile in order to run with the various track specialists out there. Every once in a while I will run into someone that will make me re evaluate one of my setups. This is where I need some help, or at least a pointer to a good reference. When I've got a car that I think I've eaked the last bit of speed out of, and it get's blown away, I go into a very time consuming mode of trial and error setup changes. What I think has happened is that I've got a combination of settings that has an upper performance limit. In order to get beyond that limit, the relative combination of setup parameters needs to be modified. It's almost like I have to throw the car away and start from a different point. Where I am a little confused in making the determination of what parameter is the best to change in order to effect a particular handling characteristic. In most cases, there are 2 or 3 things to change to change the handling in a particular direction, but which is the correct one? To make a car have more understeer, do you move the weight bias forward, soften the rear shocks, or fuss with cross weight? Or is it some combination of all of these? Does anyone know of a reference that describes the application impact of the parameters we can modify in Nascar Racing? I've looked at the material on the PITS, but it's not quite what I'm looking for. What I am looking for is not something that says moving weight forward will increase understeer, rather a reference that takes you through how modifying a parameter transfers to the track entering, during, and exiting a turn. And maybe even discusses the merits of making one change over another one (weight transfer vs shock settings). Sorry for blabbing so much, but I've spent 100's of hours setting up cars, and thought I needed to spend at least a few minutes trying to get my point (frustration) across. Gary Hamann Fremont, Ca "Piece a Cake"

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> I've been racing Indycar and Nascar since they came out, and have been able to setup cars to run competitively against > the AI cars. With the advent of hawaii, I've had to work quite a bit harder in order to be competitive with the HI > (Human Intelligence) contingent. I usually start with the Ace setup and make the changes I feel are necessary to get the > performance I am looking for. Where I have trouble, is finding that last mile in order to run with the various track > SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP > Sorry for blabbing so much, but I've spent 100's of hours setting up cars, and thought I needed to spend at least a few > minutes trying to get my point (frustration) across. > Gary Hamann > Fremont, Ca > "Piece a Cake"

Great points Gary..but it sounds like the makings of a BOOK. I can see it now the real secrets to setting up NASCAR. This is the information everyone is looking for! I don't think it is as much of a sience as you and I would like to believe though. Is there a perfect setup. The setup that will go the fastest at a given track? I think there are too many variables (Temp, Wind, competitors, Drafting, breaking , accelleration) to have the ultimate setup. IMHO you are correct about their being competing factors which limit the ultimate performance of a setup. Tim Daley I'd rather be lucky than FAST!

>As a professional programmer, I am in the process of developing a commercial software >package which will automatically run and compare times for all possible setups at each >track. Let me know if you would like to join the beta program. >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA Chuck I would be interested in testing the program. -------------- Michael Kirton

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> > I've been racing Indycar and Nascar since they came out, and have been able to setup cars to run competitively against > > the AI cars. With the advent of hawaii, I've had to work quite a bit harder in order to be competitive with the HI > > (Human Intelligence) contingent. I usually start with the Ace setup and make the changes I feel are necessary to get the > > performance I am looking for. Where I have trouble, is finding that last mile in order to run with the various track > > SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP > > Sorry for blabbing so much, but I've spent 100's of hours setting up cars, and thought I needed to spend at least a few > > minutes trying to get my point (frustration) across. > > Gary Hamann > > Fremont, Ca > > "Piece a Cake" > Great points Gary..but it sounds like the makings of a BOOK. I can see > it now the real secrets to setting up NASCAR. This is the information > everyone is looking for! I don't think it is as much of a sience as you > and I would like to believe though. Is there a perfect setup. The setup > that will go the fastest at a given track? I think there are too many > variables (Temp, Wind, competitors, Drafting, breaking , accelleration) > to have the ultimate setup. > IMHO you are correct about their being competing factors which limit the > ultimate performance of a setup.

As a professional programmer, I am in the process of developing a commercial software package which will automatically run and compare times for all possible setups at each track. Let me know if you would like to join the beta program. Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

> >As a professional programmer, I am in the process of developing a commercial software > >package which will automatically run and compare times for all possible setups at each > >track. Let me know if you would like to join the beta program. > >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA Chuck I would also be interested in beta testing.... Vetteracer http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1726 (check it out) --

>> I've been racing Indycar and Nascar since they came out, and have been able to setup cars to run competitively against harder in order to be competitive with the HI make the changes I feel are necessary to get the mile in order to run with the various track cars, and thought I needed to spend at least a few

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>> minutes trying to get my point (frustration) across. >> Gary Hamann >> Fremont, Ca >> "Piece a Cake" >Great points Gary..but it sounds like the makings of a BOOK. I can see >it now the real secrets to setting up NASCAR. This is the information >everyone is looking for! I don't think it is as much of a sience as you >and I would like to believe though. Is there a perfect setup. The setup >that will go the fastest at a given track? I think there are too many >variables (Temp, Wind, competitors, Drafting, breaking , accelleration) >to have the ultimate setup. >IMHO you are correct about their being competing factors which limit the >ultimate performance of a setup. >Tim Daley >I'd rather be lucky than FAST!

Practice, practice, practice. I'm finally realizing how important practice is. Racing against AI, I would spend just enough time to get a setup that would get me the pole with opponents at 100%. Then I would run the race and go on to the next track. With the advent of Hawaii, I'm spending many hours each week working on setups for one track. I've finally gotten my driving consistent enough that I can actually feel a significant difference in car handling when I change a shock setting by 2 or 3 percent, or weight bias by 5 lbs. I finally grok the interaction between all the settings. Even the mystery of tire stagger and camber is starting to come clear. I've also been waiting for a book to come out that would reveal all the secrets. It finally dawned on me last night while I was working on my North Wilkesboro setup, that no book can do the subject justice. Until you can actually feel what those little tweaks are doing to the car, no book can possibly help you. Once you get to that point, you've tweaked enough setups that you already know what to do. It's one of those Zen things. Dave "davids" Sparks Sequoia Motorsports

Chuck, I'll do some beta for you. I've got lot's of setup and driving experienc at all ICR2 tracks. Plus, I'm a VB and C programmer for DOS and Windows (3.x, 95, NT)--I'm not volunteering programing time! ha. I've considered a VB program similar to your efforts but without commercial interest; considering the number of hours an ICR2 driver spends in the garage and in preseason testing, your program will be a good investment for them. I'm interested. I put in 90 hours and over 5000 laps at Milwaukee to get car settings that would race with 40 gallons of fuel, right front hard compound, left rear medium compound and opponent strength set to 100 per cent. I did almost this much work at Michigan,and still, I can only run it with opponent stength set to 99 per cent. The recent patch to ICR2 has required minor setup changes. Your program could be a blessing. I enjoy driving and racing over garage work, but I'll be a mechanic until a program such as yours is available. Glenn