Attn: Ed Martin ; Inform us on why no Win95patch with Dos?

Hello Ed, I have been one of the patient ones in this newsgroup. As I sift through all the headers each day and see how many have lost patience with all the anticipation regarding the release of the IRCII patch, I have tried to comprehend your position while defending the "delay" issue on your part. I do, however, recall it being stated that the Windows95 upgrade was to be included with the patch at question. It would seem like the powers - possibly "Sierra" have chosen to change this. Could you please elaborate on the previous posts from Rick regarding this bit of confusion. I hate to say it but I am feeling a little like others now but I will not start slamming you. Just losing my faith in Papyrus and Sierra a little. Thanks,

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>Hello Ed, > I have been one of the patient ones in this newsgroup. >As I sift through all the headers each day and see how many have lost >patience with all the anticipation regarding the release of the IRCII >patch, I have tried to comprehend your position while defending the >"delay" issue on your part. I do, however, recall it being stated that >the Windows95 upgrade was to be included with the patch at question. >It would seem like the powers - possibly "Sierra" have chosen to >change this. Could you please elaborate on the previous posts from >Rick regarding this bit of confusion. I hate to say it but I am >feeling a little like others now but I will not start slamming you. >Just losing my faith in Papyrus and Sierra a little. >Thanks,

Don't do it Ed, silence is golden !!! Anthony

Ed, I have also been one of the quiet ones on the "patch" but you're gonna lose some loyal followers on this one. Do you have an official response? Chuck : Hello Ed, : I have been one of the patient ones in this newsgroup. : <snip> : Could you please elaborate on the previous posts from : Just losing my faith in Papyrus and Sierra a little. : "The patch" is a DOS-only patch. It brings the DOS version up to date : with the DOS version in the retail package you saw (that package has : DOS Win 95 & Mac on 1 CD). It (the patch) does not change the DOS : version to Win 95.

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>Hello Ed, > I have been one of the patient ones in this newsgroup. >As I sift through all the headers each day and see how many have lost >patience with all the anticipation regarding the release of the IRCII >patch, I have tried to comprehend your position while defending the >"delay" issue on your part. I do, however, recall it being stated that >the Windows95 upgrade was to be included with the patch at question. >It would seem like the powers - possibly "Sierra" have chosen to >change this. Could you please elaborate on the previous posts from >Rick regarding this bit of confusion. I hate to say it but I am >feeling a little like others now but I will not start slamming you. >Just losing my faith in Papyrus and Sierra a little. >Thanks,

OK... here's the latest... The DOS to Win 95 patch is too big for a downloadable update. Papyrus/Sierra is working out the details, but the plan is to provide current owners of DOS ICR II a means to get the new CD & user's guide for essentially cost of handling. Something along the lines of "send back your old CD & we'll send out a new one. That's all the details I have for now. As soon as I know more, so will you! Ed Martin Producer, Series Director NASCAR Racing League Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

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>OK... here's the latest... > >The DOS to Win 95 patch is too big for a downloadable update. >Papyrus/Sierra is working out the details, but the plan is to provide >current owners of DOS ICR II a means to get the new CD & user's guide >for essentially cost of handling. Something along the lines of "send >back your old CD & we'll send out a new one. > >That's all the details I have for now. As soon as I know more, so >will you!

Now this is starting to sound good! I can't wait to rip around the track knowing that I can wait for a yellow to pit! This means there will be more to strategy then figuring out the least amount of fuel to carry at the start! Clark Archer Speed Tribe IVGA #3920 1996 Lola Honda Firestone

: OK... here's the latest... : The DOS to Win 95 patch is too big for a downloadable update. : Papyrus/Sierra is working out the details, but the plan is to provide : current owners of DOS ICR II a means to get the new CD & user's guide : for essentially cost of handling. Something along the lines of "send : back your old CD & we'll send out a new one. Thanks for the update. This means I will have to clear up some space on my harddrive for a full installation of ICR2. As you may have guessed I am ***ed to virtual racing. Of course I could spend the down time perfecting some of my NASCAR talents ;) You have to be careful here, if (and that's a big IF) Microprose gets GP2 out before Christmas, you just might lose a couple of ICR2 ***s while their CD is in the "garage area" awaiting to new engine! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>OK... here's the latest... >The DOS to Win 95 patch is too big for a downloadable update. >Papyrus/Sierra is working out the details, but the plan is to provide >current owners of DOS ICR II a means to get the new CD & user's guide >for essentially cost of handling. Something along the lines of "send >back your old CD & we'll send out a new one. >That's all the details I have for now. As soon as I know more, so >will you! >Ed Martin >Producer, Series Director >NASCAR Racing League >Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Thanks Ed, That clears things up! Thanks again for keeping us informed and I will personally try not to press these issues too hard in the future before knowing who's in charge of what in reference to your other post about your duties at "Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc." Thanks for keeping us informed! Very much appreciated, Ron

: The DOS to Win 95 patch is too big for a downloadable update. : Papyrus/Sierra is working out the details, but the plan is to provide : current owners of DOS ICR II a means to get the new CD & user's guide : for essentially cost of handling. Something along the lines of "send : back your old CD & we'll send out a new one. I can live with this... just let me know when and where to send my stuff! And just how BIG is a file that is "too big for a downloadable update"? bill -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- .------. | ....'....!...'----/ | /' #3 RASN : | :--( )------..-( )--- | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi! Are european icr2 users included in this plan? l8r ronny

>And just how BIG is a file that is "too big for a downloadable update"? it's not only that it'd be large, but also the manpower required to do the patch... there are other issues that we didn't take into account when this idea came up... Stuff such as DirectX installation, Win95 Registry issues, and also the Sierra installer/uninstaller. Basically, we realized it was a bad idea and not worth the effort... But while I don't know the plans, like you I've heard the new plan is to offer some sort of trade-up policy where you'd get the new CD with Dos/Win95/Mac versions of ICR2. Again, I have nothing to do with this new plan, so I have no idea what it's final shape will be or when it'll be offered. So don't bother asking... ;-) /scott -- Scott Marison, Software Engineer Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

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>Basically, we realized it was a bad idea and not worth the effort... >But while I don't know the plans, like you I've heard the new plan >is to offer some sort of trade-up policy where you'd get the new >CD with Dos/Win95/Mac versions of ICR2. Again, I have nothing >to do with this new plan, so I have no idea what it's final shape will >be or when it'll be offered. So don't bother asking... ;-) >/scott >-- >Scott Marison, Software Engineer >Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!

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> >And just how BIG is a file that is "too big for a downloadable update"? > it's not only that it'd be large, but also the manpower required > to do the patch... there are other issues that we didn't take into > account when this idea came up... Stuff such as DirectX installation, > Win95 Registry issues, and also the Sierra installer/uninstaller. > Basically, we realized it was a bad idea and not worth the effort... > But while I don't know the plans, like you I've heard the new plan > is to offer some sort of trade-up policy where you'd get the new > CD with Dos/Win95/Mac versions of ICR2. Again, I have nothing > to do with this new plan, so I have no idea what it's final shape will > be or when it'll be offered. So don't bother asking... ;-)

Scott, That's all fine and good, but is there still a DOS patch in the works? Neil -- Meek and obedient you follow the leader down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.. Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 19:20:53 -0400, Neil Yeatman

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>> to do with this new plan, so I have no idea what it's final shape will >> be or when it'll be offered. So don't bother asking... ;-) >Scott, >That's all fine and good, but is there still a DOS patch in the works? >Neil >--

At this point, I don't think there is a patch. I've been anxiously checking this newsgroup and Sierra every single day and now to read this post from Scott, I don't mind saying, I'm a bit bent out of shape. Just yesterday I was 30 minutes into a Cleveland race when I was bitten by the yellow flag bug. I was running in 4th but the other cars were passing the pace car at full speed and I was not allowed to pass. Soon I was in dead last place. That SUCKS!!!!!!! I have purchased everything including Indy 500 The Simulation and have always been happy with the effort that Papyrus has made to fix the bugs. ICR1 was a good example. However, we have had ICR2 for 7 months now and they just fixed the paintkit hardly a month ago!! It seems that we are being swept under the rug. :-( -----------. __ .----------- ----- \( )/ ----- Cie Phillips --- ' \/ ` --- Phillips MotorSports --- : : --- #01 Lite Ice Chevy --' 01 '-- #01 Lite Ice Reynard Mercedes //..\\ http://www.teleplex.net/cie/ '//||\\` ''``

: > : >Basically, we realized it was a bad idea and not worth the effort... : >But while I don't know the plans, like you I've heard the new plan : >is to offer some sort of trade-up policy where you'd get the new : >CD with Dos/Win95/Mac versions of ICR2. Again, I have nothing : >to do with this new plan, so I have no idea what it's final shape will : >be or when it'll be offered. So don't bother asking... ;-) : Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! : Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, that says alot, but it doesn't say much to me. I have been very vocal about my displeasure with the ways things "seem" to have changed regarding the "upgrade" to the Win95 version. At least you could let us know what you consider to be "Bullshit". Until I hear the "plans" for the upgrade, I can't really comment. So far the Papyrus reps have been doing a good job filling us in on the progress (all be it the progress is sl-o-o-ow). It is just as I projected, a bean-counter realized it was not cost-effective to "produce" a patch-upgrade to Win95. This makes sense, it's obvious. Does it let Sierra/Papyrus off the hook? Not in my book. I am glad that Scott hazarded the "throws of arrows" to give us some insight into the situation. (What a terrible sentence! -- and English is my native tongue! I should be ashamed.) I am reserving judgement... Of of course you forgot to quote the important part of Scott's message: "it's not only that it'd be large, but also the manpower required to do the patch... there are other issues that we didn't take into account when this idea came up... Stuff such as DirectX installation, Win95 Registry issues, and also the Sierra installer/uninstaller." Of course he was replying to comments made earlier about the "reasoning" behind not providing a downloadable upgrade. Which was "Bullshit" in my book. I truly believe Scott's latest reason is a good solid one. It doesn't answer the question we all have been waiting to hear, but I am sure when they have an answer, we'll hear it. Until then the jury is still out... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>At this point, I don't think there is a patch. I've been anxiously >checking this newsgroup and Sierra every single day and now to read >this post from Scott, I don't mind saying, I'm a bit bent out of >shape. > Just yesterday I was 30 minutes into a Cleveland race when I >was bitten by the yellow flag bug. I was running in 4th but the other >cars were passing the pace car at full speed and I was not allowed to >pass. Soon I was in dead last place. That SUCKS!!!!!!! > I have purchased everything including Indy 500 The Simulation >and have always been happy with the effort that Papyrus has made to >fix the bugs. ICR1 was a good example. However, we have had ICR2 for 7 >months now and they just fixed the paintkit hardly a month ago!! It >seems that we are being swept under the rug. :-(

Apparently it looks that way Cie. When Nascar 2 was officially announced, I was all e***d. Now, I know I'm gonna take a wait and see approach. I don't want to buy another Papy product and have to wait all this time for a bug patch to fix something that shoulda been done in it's first month of release. I think we learn from our mistakes and this is one that I don't want to repeat. Besides, F1GP2 is almost out (crossing fingers) and if it's half as good as it's made up to be, I'm sure we'll all forget that once great sim company that started with a 'P' Karl Sick of waiting for the patch that was promised weeks ago - Who does Papy think they are, Microprose? Maybe they hired MP's marketing director?

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>>And just how BIG is a file that is "too big for a downloadable update"? >it's not only that it'd be large, but also the manpower required >to do the patch... there are other issues that we didn't take into >account when this idea came up... Stuff such as DirectX installation, >Win95 Registry issues, and also the Sierra installer/uninstaller. >Basically, we realized it was a bad idea and not worth the effort... >But while I don't know the plans, like you I've heard the new plan >is to offer some sort of trade-up policy

(snip) Scott, Seems to be mass confusion forming from this thread. I believe you are refering to the Win95/ICR2 upgrade (patch) which is not planned as a patch, correct, but rather being worked out as you stated for an exchange type program. The Dos-fix (patch) for ICR2 is still in testing at Sierra and soon to be available via download, correct? Please clear this up. Thanks, Ron

: I am glad that Scott hazarded the "throws of arrows" to give us some : insight into the situation. (What a terrible sentence! -- and English : is my native tongue! I should be ashamed.) I am reserving judgement... Okay, I don't know why my brains so fogged. Maybe I have hit the wall one too many times in ICR2 :) I think the quote I was searching for is something more in the line of: "suffer the slings and arrows". Well I am headed for the in-field medical center, hopefully the doctors will release me so I can head back out to the track.... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>>And just how BIG is a file that is "too big for a downloadable update"? >it's not only that it'd be large, but also the manpower required >to do the patch... there are other issues that we didn't take into >account when this idea came up... Stuff such as DirectX installation, >Win95 Registry issues, and also the Sierra installer/uninstaller. >Basically, we realized it was a bad idea and not worth the effort.. . ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is a VERY bad thing to say, doesn't anyone at Sierra/Papyrus understand "ethics" you can't say stuff like this and expect people to feel sorry for you WE paid for the product, maybe next time we will think it's not worth the EFFORT and get a PIRATED copy, it's certinally out there but at the moment I am exercising my ethics and not willing to break any laws to prove a point. Anthony Bulloch.

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>But while I don't know the plans, like you I've heard the new plan >is to offer some sort of trade-up policy where you'd get the new >CD with Dos/Win95/Mac versions of ICR2. Again, I have nothing >to do with this new plan, so I have no idea what it's final shape will >be or when it'll be offered. So don't bother asking... ;-) >/scott >-- >Scott Marison, Software Engineer >Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

> Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! >Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm done with this group - who needs this!!! /scott p.s. learn some manners... maybe you forget, but there are real live people on the receiving end of your attempt at communication. -- Scott Marison, Software Engineer Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

: This is a VERY bad thing to say, doesn't anyone at Sierra/Papyrus : understand "ethics" you can't say stuff like this and expect people to : feel sorry for you WE paid for the product, maybe next time we will : think it's not worth the EFFORT and get a PIRATED copy, it's : certinally out there but at the moment I am exercising my ethics and : not willing to break any laws to prove a point. I sympathize with you on this one. I have had to restrain myself from going down to my local software store and buying a copy of the "fixed" version, installing it, and then returning the copy for a full refund. Unfortunately that approach brings more innocents into this stinking abyss. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Scott You're so right, but, just a thought, but I think there are many more here who respect your presence and postings than those vocal minority always pissing people off Joseph

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> Scott > You're so right, but, just a thought, but I think there are many more > here who respect your presence and postings than those vocal minority > always pissing people off > Joseph

Agreed..... I'm one of them... Keith

>I'm done with this group - who needs this!!! >/scott Scott...no please don't go. Just don some teflon and ignore jerks like this. I've been flamed enough in these stupid newsgroups that it doesn't even affect me when someone goes non-linear like this. I just laugh it off and only respond to those messages where some modicum of decency is there. A great majority of us are grateful you have spent time and energy helping us out here...and I'd hate for the majority of appreciative people lose out because one person acts like an ass. Its not like the majority can do a lot to shut people like this up. Randy

Another valuable asset to the group disappears, drowned under a weight of vitriolic taurean scatology. Good work people.... John PS - Most will be sorry to see you go Scott, maybe you can stage a comeback if you find the twit-filte...em, kill-file on your newsreader? _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 18:56:12 +0100, John Wallace < vitriolic taurean scatology. Let's see.... 3 - $1.50 words........ That earns you a grand total $4.50 US. :-)

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>: I am glad that Scott hazarded the "throws of arrows" to give us some >: insight into the situation. (What a terrible sentence! -- and English >: is my native tongue! I should be ashamed.) I am reserving judgement... >Okay, I don't know why my brains so fogged. Maybe I have hit the wall >one too many times in ICR2 :) >I think the quote I was searching for is something more in the line of: >"suffer the slings and arrows". >Well I am headed for the in-field medical center, hopefully the doctors >will release me so I can head back out to the track....

In your condition... I HOPE NOT! <g> Dave "davids" Sparks Sequoia Motorsports

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>> Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! >>Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! >I'm done with this group - who needs this!!! >/scott >p.s. learn some manners... maybe you forget, >but there are real live people on the receiving >end of your attempt at communication. >-- >Scott Marison, Software Engineer >Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

Please, Scott, understand that it isn't the group you should be done with, but rather any individual that you find disrespectful. A programming guy like you should be able to make a kill-file to sift out authors proven in the past to be disrespectful. And while we feel bad for you that people are flaming you, you need to appreciate why some people are feeling so angry. It has been 8 months for those of us who bought ICR2 in november, and nobody has leveled with us as to why we haven't had a fix for some debilitating bugs in ICR2. I haven't used ICR2 in a long time; the bugs just make it not worth the energy I need to put in to it (esp. the weight shift bug). Now there is a supposedly working version out with all sorts of frills, and the original buyers, clearly those people who care the most about the product and serve as Papyrus' most faithful customers, are sitting on the sidelines wondering why they can't use the product they paid for long, long ago. On top of that, we discover that Papyrus now believes it was a bad idea to offer the new fully working version to the original customers... this is unbearable. Of course a company would think this is a bad idea; they have our money, and there is nothing we can do about it. Some people are going to flame, and if that is a surprise to you, you must be new to the debacle that has been brewing since christmas. I feel intuitively that the Sierra buyout had something to do with the sudden change in quality of Papyrus' support of their products. If Sierra isn't going to honor Papyrus' original customers, I know for one that this customer won't be a customer of Sierra anymore. And I think I speak for a lot of people in this newsgroup. Anyway, sorry you have been flamed; your posts have been unusually open and fresh for those of us that have been following the progress so far. I hope you change your mind and stick with your product online.

Aww c'mon - it was on a triple word score.... :) _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

reguard to reality...

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>> Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! >>Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!! >I'm done with this group - who needs this!!! >-- >Scott Marison, Software Engineer >Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

Thank you Cie. Now that you drove our friendly technical crew at Papyrus off the newsgroup, I hope you're proud of yourself. Personally, I don't blame him for not wanting to put up with that kind of thing. Mike -- ___^___ Speed Bump Motorsports... The name says it all. NRL95 #110 Hershey's Kisses Chevrolet Monte Carlo PRO95 #53 Hershey's Kisses Penske PC23/Ilmor D SIMCAR96 #45 Hershey's Kisses Pontiac Grand Prix PRO96 #2 Hershey's Kisses Reynard/Ford/Firestone - Pucker Factor Motorsports IVGA #2027 (membership, not the car!)