T2 Wear & Tear question for those who own one.

Wondering which parts those of you who own a T2 wheel/pedal set are experiencing the most wear/breakage with. Being a machinist I figure to machine up a set of bushings/pedals/ a base/ etc, to replace high wear rate components. Thanks in advance. Ron *********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron "Cougar" Riekens II *** **** Owner - Driver **** **** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography **** *** NAS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac *** ***********************************************

> Wondering which parts those of you who own a T2 wheel/pedal set are > experiencing the most wear/breakage with. > Being a machinist I figure to machine up a set of bushings/pedals/ a > base/ etc, to replace high wear rate components. > Thanks in advance. > Ron ======== I broke the gas pedal spring twice on my T1. I've since given up on the Thrustmaster pedals, and replaced them with CH rudder pedals. The CH setup requires you use two feet, right for gas, left from brake, whereas I could actually toe and heel (not that I want or need to) with the T1. I'd be interested in hearing about your solution. It would perhaps be as simple as heat treating the springs correctly, or adding a mechanical stop on the back of the pedal unit. I'm also teaching my eight year old son to play. He can't reach the pedals at all, and I suspect the pedals are not situated ideally for me in a desk chair. A simple foot stool with height and tilt adjustments would be nice. I've tried milk crates, books, old joystick boxes... None of them are stable enough to do the trick. Mike.

> Wondering which parts those of you who own a T2 wheel/pedal set are > experiencing the most wear/breakage with. > Being a machinist I figure to machine up a set of bushings/pedals/ a > base/ etc, to replace high wear rate components. > Thanks in advance. > Ron Obviously, the springs for the pedals and the bungee for the wheel are high wear parts. Also, watch out for breakage with the plastic caps/runners that guide the bungee in the wheel housing. Thrustmaster will send free spare parts out as soon as you contact them. Too bad it breaks down so much. I got tired of the frequent repairs and bought an ECCI wheel instead. Shawn Kosloff Hawaii Handle: Koz Days Inn Racing Team Arlington, VA IVGA MP/HGNS/SSCRA

<<I broke the gas pedal spring twice on my T1. I've since given up on the Thrustmaster pedals, and replaced them with CH rudder pedals. The CH setup requires you use two feet, right for gas, left from brake, whereas I could actually toe and heel (not that I want or need to) with the T1.>> Just out of curiosity... how were you able to heel & toe with your T1? You'd have to twist your foot almost completely sideways. The roller pedals lie parallel to each other at the top of the base, therefore I think it would make heel & toe action quite uncomfortable if not impossible. Getting back to the controllers, I enjoy my T2 immensely. As well, it has proven to be much more durable than my T1 and feels more solid and sturdy... more comfortable, also. Because of its stability, I'm able to calibrate it more accurately. Combined with a Thrustmaster ACM, you can get the feel extremely comfortable and responsive. My T1 started to go south after I had it a little less than a year. My T2 isn't showing the same symptoms. Nick ____________________________________________________________________ #6 (will he be #28 in '97?) and #94 in the *real* quest for the Cup! My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/ ____________________________________________________________________

>Obviously, the springs for the pedals and the bungee for the wheel are >high wear parts. Also, watch out for breakage with the plastic >caps/runners that guide the bungee in the wheel housing. >Thrustmaster will send free spare parts out as soon as you contact them. Where can I contact them? Thanks, Craig Marcho

: I broke the gas pedal spring twice on my T1. I've since given up on the : Thrustmaster pedals, and replaced them with CH rudder pedals. The CH : setup requires you use two feet, right for gas, left from brake, whereas : I could actually toe and heel (not that I want or need to) with the T1. : I'd be interested in hearing about your solution. It would perhaps be as : simple as heat treating the springs correctly, or adding a mechanical : stop on the back of the pedal unit. Until I put a stop at the rear of my T1 pedal unit, I too suffered spring breakage. Since having limited the travel, I have only had one spring break. This spring had been in use before I put the block of wood on the rear porch of the pedal unit. Therefore I assume it was already stressed from travelling too far. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> Just out of curiosity... how were you able to heel & toe with your > T1? You'd have to twist your foot almost completely sideways. The roller > pedals lie parallel to each other at the top of the base, therefore I > think it would make heel & toe action quite uncomfortable if not > impossible. ======== In most real cars, "toe and heel" is an inaccurate description of rolling your foot to blip the gas while braking (duh). In all late model production cars I've driven, pedal placement is such that it's much more efficient to brake using the ball of the foot, and blip the gas with the side of the foot. For me driving my wife's "sporty" little car, the contact point is near the outside edge of the ball of the foot, just below the junction of the 5th metacarpal (little toe) with the rest of the foot -- literally "ball and toe" would be more accurate. On another car in recent memory, the brake pedal was very high relative to the gas, and the action might more accurately be described as "ball and ankle." I have never driven a car where "toe and heel" was an accurate description of the action, but the phrase causes no confusion on my part. [My eight year old boy's foot is wide enough to cover both pedals/rollers on the T1. Certainly your's is too?]

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> > In most real cars, "toe and heel" is an inaccurate description of > > rolling your foot to blip the gas while braking (duh). In all late model > > production cars I've driven, pedal placement is such that it's much more > > efficient to brake using the ball of the foot, and blip the gas with the > > side of the foot. For me driving my wife's "sporty" little car, the > > contact point is near the outside edge of the ball of the foot, just > > below the junction of the 5th metacarpal (little toe) with the rest of > > the foot -- literally "ball and toe" would be more accurate. On another > > car in recent memory, the brake pedal was very high relative to the gas, > > and the action might more accurately be described as "ball and ankle." I > > have never driven a car where "toe and heel" was an accurate description > > of the action, but the phrase causes no confusion on my part. > > [My eight year old boy's foot is wide enough to cover both > > pedals/rollers on the T1. Certainly your's is too?] > Actually, I think I misrepresented my idea. I was trying to see if > you had somewhat modified the base to be more realistic... I apologize > as I should have been a bit more straightforward. > It would seem to be a good idea if there were enough room on the > base to do so. It seems rather unrealistic that an actual race driver > brakes with the left foot and accelerates with the right as one is more > than likely going to do with a T1 or T2. There is a bit of imbalance and > the brakes would more than likely suffer over time on a real car. > As far as the foot, yeah, I s'pose mine is wide enough to fit over > both pedals but I can easily get a case of "fat feet" and take out the > field at Pocono if I'm not careful 8 ) > Nick > ____________________________________________________________________ > #6 (will he be #28 in '97?) and #94 in the *real* quest for the Cup! > My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/ > ____________________________________________________________________

Given that in both F1 and Indycar manual clutches are only employed in the pits and on the starting grid, be they hand clutches or foot clutches, it's actually entirely realistic to assume that everyone is left foot braking. In fact, Paul Tracy admitted as much in a recent CBC interview.

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> In most real cars, "toe and heel" is an inaccurate description of > rolling your foot to blip the gas while braking (duh). In all late model > production cars I've driven, pedal placement is such that it's much more > efficient to brake using the ball of the foot, and blip the gas with the > side of the foot. For me driving my wife's "sporty" little car, the > contact point is near the outside edge of the ball of the foot, just > below the junction of the 5th metacarpal (little toe) with the rest of > the foot -- literally "ball and toe" would be more accurate. On another > car in recent memory, the brake pedal was very high relative to the gas, > and the action might more accurately be described as "ball and ankle." I > have never driven a car where "toe and heel" was an accurate description > of the action, but the phrase causes no confusion on my part. > [My eight year old boy's foot is wide enough to cover both > pedals/rollers on the T1. Certainly your's is too?]

Actually, I think I misrepresented my idea. I was trying to see if you had somewhat modified the base to be more realistic... I apologize as I should have been a bit more straightforward. It would seem to be a good idea if there were enough room on the base to do so. It seems rather unrealistic that an actual race driver brakes with the left foot and accelerates with the right as one is more than likely going to do with a T1 or T2. There is a bit of imbalance and the brakes would more than likely suffer over time on a real car. As far as the foot, yeah, I s'pose mine is wide enough to fit over both pedals but I can easily get a case of "fat feet" and take out the field at Pocono if I'm not careful 8 ) Nick ____________________________________________________________________ #6 (will he be #28 in '97?) and #94 in the *real* quest for the Cup! My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/ ____________________________________________________________________

> It would seem to be a good idea if there were enough room on the > base to do so. It seems rather unrealistic that an actual race driver > brakes with the left foot and accelerates with the right as one is more > than likely going to do with a T1 or T2. ======== The CH pedals are laid out much better for two footed driving than the T1. I haven't tried shifting the brake roller to the unoccupied left-most slot, but two footed driving never seemed a good idea until I started using the CH pedals. I find I'm transitioning much more smoothly from gas to brake to gas than I could ever with one foot. (One footed driving is not an option with CH.) ======== Barefoot is the only way to do this safely. :) In real life, I don't even back out of the driveway without adjusting the seat until everything is just "so". In ICR, I find I'm constantly scooching my office chair around, or kicking the pedals back into place. There has to be a better way... Mike.

>Where can I contact them? >Thanks, >Craig Marcho Try (503)639-3200. I tried sending them email but they never answered. I called them and had the parts 3 days later. -------------- Michael Kirton

. It seems rather unrealistic that an actual race driver Actually it is now common in F1 to brake with the left foot on a two pedal setup. The best way to achieve this on a T1 is to take the brake roller off and reverse it - ie roller on left and nut on the right. You can then have your feet a comfortable distance apart, and after a short time it will improve your driving. You can feather the throttle better whilst dabbing the brakes. Just think of yourself as a F1 driver who has never used a manual gearstick, or maybe a Finnish rally driver. You can't heel and toe anyway with a semi-automatic transmission, so why try to simulate it. Its ancient history. William.

How do you have a stop on there? Doesn't it stop you from getting full gas or break? Did they design the pedals so they go further than they have to? Chris

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>Actually it is now common in F1 to brake with the left foot on a >two pedal setup. The best way to achieve this on a T1 is to >take the brake roller off and reverse it - ie roller on left and >nut on the right. You can then have your feet a comfortable >distance apart, and after a short time it will improve your >driving. You can feather the throttle better whilst dabbing >the brakes.

Unforetunately, that will not work for a T2.

> Given that in both F1 and Indycar manual clutches are only employed in > the pits and on the starting grid, be they hand clutches or foot > clutches, it's actually entirely realistic to assume that everyone is > left foot braking. In fact, Paul Tracy admitted as much in a recent > CBC interview. ======= Alain Prost, champeen F1 driver, writes in his book that left foot braking is common with Scandanavian rally drivers. Typical rally cars there are front wheel drive, running on unpaved or rough roads. He neither recommends or discourages this as a practice, but points out its utility for preventing the fronts from locking under heavy braking by over-driving the brakes on the drive wheels. He makes no mention of whether F1 or IndyCar drivers do this as a common practice. In a humorous side note, Alain instructs old-timers how to deal with their impetuous younger competition when they get bothersome by going too fast. Mentioning that they should learn to brake with the left foot should remove the rookies from serious competition for at least a year, the time it would take to learn to do so effectively. Also, in last weekend's coverage of the Winston Cup race at Watkins Glen, Labonte's pedal cam shows him braking with his right foot. They apparently have cameras wired everywhere in competition cars these days. I still haven't figured out how they got enough light under the "dash" for that particularly revealing piece of footage. (Or why they bothered, for that matter. :) Mike.

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>> Given that in both F1 and Indycar manual clutches are only employed in >> the pits and on the starting grid, be they hand clutches or foot >> clutches, it's actually entirely realistic to assume that everyone is >> left foot braking. In fact, Paul Tracy admitted as much in a recent >> CBC interview. >======= >Alain Prost, champeen F1 driver, writes in his book that left foot >braking is common with Scandanavian rally drivers. Typical rally cars >there are front wheel drive, running on unpaved or rough roads. He >neither recommends or discourages this as a practice, but points out its >utility for preventing the fronts from locking under heavy braking by >over-driving the brakes on the drive wheels. He makes no mention of >whether F1 or IndyCar drivers do this as a common practice. In a >humorous side note, Alain instructs old-timers how to deal with their >impetuous younger competition when they get bothersome by going too >fast. Mentioning that they should learn to brake with the left foot >should remove the rookies from serious competition for at least a year, >the time it would take to learn to do so effectively. >Also, in last weekend's coverage of the Winston Cup race at Watkins >Glen, Labonte's pedal cam shows him braking with his right foot. They >apparently have cameras wired everywhere in competition cars these days. >I still haven't figured out how they got enough light under the "dash" >for that particularly revealing piece of footage. (Or why they bothered, >for that matter. :) >Mike.

Well, I don't know how they did it or why, but there sure are a lot of people talking about it. <G> Ron *********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron "Cougar" Riekens II *** **** Owner - Driver **** **** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography **** *** NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac *** ***********************************************

Who needs it anyway? The T2 pedals are just fine for two foot operation as they are. Better then one footed even as you always have a foot anchoring the damn things to the floor. -- Derek James

>>Unforetunately, that will not work for a T2. >Who needs it anyway? The T2 pedals are just fine for two foot operation as >they are. Better then one footed even as you always have a foot anchoring >the damn things to the floor. I find the pedal too close together to drive with two feet.

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>> Wondering which parts those of you who own a T2 wheel/pedal set are >> experiencing the most wear/breakage with. >> Being a machinist I figure to machine up a set of bushings/pedals/ a >> base/ etc, to replace high wear rate components. >> Thanks in advance. >> Ron >======== >I broke the gas pedal spring twice on my T1. I've since given up on the >Thrustmaster pedals, and replaced them with CH rudder pedals. The CH >setup requires you use two feet, right for gas, left from brake, whereas >I could actually toe and heel (not that I want or need to) with the T1. >I'd be interested in hearing about your solution. It would perhaps be as >simple as heat treating the springs correctly, or adding a mechanical >stop on the back of the pedal unit.

After replacing the springs in my gas pedal (T1) twice, I also added a stop (I used a***shimmed with fender washers) I also took the brake roller, disassembled it and reassembled it backwards, so it was on the other side of the pedal (allowing me to use both feet if necessary) They're not bugs! They're random features!