ICR2 Win95 in the stores

I saw a copy of ICR2 Win95 in a software store here in Indpls. It also has the Mac ver. in the same box.

> I saw a copy of ICR2 Win95 in a software store here in Indpls. > It also has the Mac ver. in the same box. Was this the actual product, or an empty box? They've had the empty (coming soon) box on display at my local WaldenSoft for a couple of weeks now.

writes: We've seen the actual box in the stores around Watertown as of yesterday (Electronics Boutique). It has all three versions in the box (DOS, Win95, Mac). I was impressed, considering that we only received the test silver on Saturday. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Sierra On-Line, Inc.

I saw the WINDOWS 95 version at my local Electronics Boutique also. Now, whers's the patch?

>> I saw a copy of ICR2 Win95 in a software store here in Indpls. >> It also has the Mac ver. in the same box. >Was this the actual product, or an empty box? They've had the empty >(coming soon) box on display at my local WaldenSoft for a couple of >weeks now. I saw the actually game as well. (not an empty box) Local EB had it for I think 52.99. (don't quote me on that tho) :) Andy [link lost in import: /~ridger] Kali/***/Nascar

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> >> I saw a copy of ICR2 Win95 in a software store here in Indpls. > >> It also has the Mac ver. in the same box. > >Was this the actual product, or an empty box? They've had the empty > >(coming soon) box on display at my local WaldenSoft for a couple of > >weeks now. > I saw the actually game as well. (not an empty box) Local EB had it > for I think 52.99. (don't quote me on that tho) :)

So the game is out and in stores. http://www.sierra.com/papy/icrii.htm still says "Coming Soon". So what chance is there that they'll put the patch out there if they can't even announce the commercial release of their long awaited Win95/Mac version on their web page? Damn...some companies shouldn't be allowed to have web pages... :( Neil -- Meek and obedient you follow the leader down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.. Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

>We've seen the actual box in the stores around Watertown as of yesterday >(Electronics Boutique). It has all three versions in the box (DOS, Win95, >Mac). I was impressed, considering that we only received the test silver >on Saturday. >Rick Genter Now Rick, is this the 'partched' DOS version or the original that we all already have? Karl Team 'Dobe' Nass 96

Riiiiiight. So a guy who bought it today gets the full unbugged DOS version, yet I who gave over my money 8 months ago am still unable to make realistic races due to the plethora of bugs? Nice to know where you stand..... Cheers! John (A little annoyed, but maintaining a perspective) _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

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>>We've seen the actual box in the stores around Watertown as of yesterday >>(Electronics Boutique). It has all three versions in the box (DOS, Win95, >>Mac). I was impressed, considering that we only received the test silver >>on Saturday. >>Rick Genter > Now Rick, is this the 'partched' DOS version or the original that we >all already have? > Karl > Team 'Dobe' > Nass 96

The product in the stores is the updated version. From that, "the patch" is being built. It is in testing & will hopefully be posted next week. Ed Martin Producer, Series Director NASCAR Racing League Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

: So the game is out and in stores. http://www.sierra.com/papy/icrii.htm : still says "Coming Soon". So what chance is there that they'll put the : patch out there if they can't even announce the commercial release of : their long awaited Win95/Mac version on their web page? : Damn...some companies shouldn't be allowed to have web pages... :( To make matters works Sierra's ftp site doesn't have a single Papyrus file at all. None of the earlier NASCAR, ICR or ICR2 patches exist at ftp://ftp.sierra.com -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>: So the game is out and in stores. http://www.sierra.com/papy/icrii.htm >: still says "Coming Soon". So what chance is there that they'll put the >: patch out there if they can't even announce the commercial release of >: their long awaited Win95/Mac version on their web page? >: Damn...some companies shouldn't be allowed to have web pages... :( >To make matters works Sierra's ftp site doesn't have a single Papyrus >file at all. None of the earlier NASCAR, ICR or ICR2 patches exist at >ftp://ftp.sierra.com

On the website http://www.sierra.com there is the ICR1 v1.04 patch in the Support->Patches->Sports/Sims section. I think the NASCAR patch is there too, but the only reason I remember the ICR1 patch distinctly is that every day for the past week I've done a Netscape word search for "indy" on that page to find the ICR2 patch and it always takes me to the ICR1 v1.04 patch. :-( -- +------------------+--------------------------------------------+ | G. Warren Abao | Official BBL Jacksonville Jaguars Website: | +------------------++------------------------+------------------+ | SPOOOOOOOOOOON!!! | BBL Jacksonville 9-7 | IFL Chicago 8-6 | +-------------------+------------------------+------------------+

>Riiiiiight. So a guy who bought it today gets the full unbugged DOS >version, yet I who gave over my money 8 months ago am still unable to >make realistic races due to the plethora of bugs? >Nice to know where you stand..... You will LOVE this. In the local mall at "Electronics Boutique" they have the original ICR2 for $57.99 and RIGHT NEXT to it they have ICR2 for WIN95/DOS/MAC for $52.99. What the hell is up with this? They might at well get used to that copy of the original cause you would have to be an Idiot to buy it. Gene

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>>Riiiiiight. So a guy who bought it today gets the full unbugged DOS >>version, yet I who gave over my money 8 months ago am still unable to >>make realistic races due to the plethora of bugs? >>Nice to know where you stand..... >You will LOVE this. In the local mall at "Electronics Boutique" they have >the original ICR2 for $57.99 and RIGHT NEXT to it they have ICR2 for >WIN95/DOS/MAC for $52.99. What the hell is up with this? They might at >well get used to that copy of the original cause you would have to be an >Idiot to buy it. >Gene

So... What exactly is the benefit of the Win95 copy (besides the obvious convenience of not having to be in DOS mode to run the game)?

Well, I was one of those who just cannot wait for anything, so I went to my local Electronics Boutique and bought the Win95/MAC/DOS patched version of ICR2. I don't know how to say this, but the Win95 version is almost totally unplayable! The Windows menus and mouse control do make it easier to navigate the assorted options and settings, but this in itself cannot make up for the performance. And this is on a system with a 166MHz Pentium, 16MB EDO RAM, 512K PB cache, Matrox Millenium 2 MB WRAM (retail version) card using the latest ver. 3.01 amd DirectX drivers, and a Thrustamster ACM card with a T2. The frame rate that it is displayed on the screen stays between 23-32 fps in SVGA, depending on the track, with everything on but asphalt and grass textures. But you would think that it is only getting around 10 fps if you saw it. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I know that the hard drive is not being accessed the majority of the time (usually only at the start of practice when I pull out of the pits). The main problem that I see is in the delayed action of the controls, as everything seems to lag before an action takes place. It seems as if everything seems to happen in slow motion. And sometimes, right before a turn usually, the hard drive takes a hit, the screen freezes, and 2 seconds later you are in the wall. Not fun. I know that I don't have the fastest system around, but you would think that the Win95 version would run without too many hiccups on it. As was stated in a previous post, I cannot see how Papyrus/Sierra could release this in the state that it is in. Well, on to the DOS version 1.0.1-- With this, you now get the frame rate displayed at the lower left hand of the screen, just as in the Win95 version. On both versions, the light that used to only indicate low fuel now does its job of indicating the redline. I've found this to be very helpful. The cars do not suddenly slow down at the start at Michigan anymore, but I still think that the AI cars brake a little too early at Pheonix (although this very well may be my driving style). I had noticed most of the previous yellow flag bugs at Cleveland, but during a race there last night none of the usual weird occurances happened, so I presume that it is also cured. As far as the traction\grip bug is concerned, I personally noticed a difference immediatley. The car did not push as bad as it originally did, and felt more secure during cornering at the ovals. But now, after a few hard laps, the car will suddenly break into an immediate oversteer without warning. It definitley helps to do some anti-roll bar adjusting here. Also, there are now 3 qualifying setups included-QUALACE, QUALFAST, and QUALEASY. The QUALACE setups seem very fast and competitive, especially at Michigan. I don't have a MAC, so we'll have to wait for someone else's review on that one! One more thing about the DOS version\patch that is mentioned in the readme file-if you have a mouse driver loaded or present in MS-DOS mode, when you try to set controls it will only detect the mouse for any of the functions (even if you have calibrated your wheel\joystick). I had to disconnect my mouse before the game was loaded, get the controls set, and then I could finally play. Hooking the mouse back up later is OK, as the controls configuration is already set. This is a minor inconvenience, yet I don't know why they would let this through. In conclusion, I personally (and this is MY opinion), do not see any of an advantage to buying the Win95 version of ICR2. Although the improved menu options are nice, does that really take more importance over the gameplay? I think not. Be smart-wait for the DOS patch at the end of this week(hopefully), and forget about the Win95 version until they find a definite way to improve the performance and playability. Thanks for listening, and I hope this helps in someone's decisions.... Eric Giles

Thanks for the W95 & DOS patch review, the "Mouse" issue is troubling though. I will SKIP the W95 version and go straight to the DOS patch. Shawn in Cleveland

>So... What exactly is the benefit of the Win95 copy (besides the obvious >convenience of not having to be in DOS mode to run the game)? 10 Benifits of Win95: 1) (mentioned above) you don't need to switch into DOS mode 2) There is a better UI 3) The Paint Shop in Win95 (and MAC) is tons better then the DOS Paint Shop 4) You can have more than 1 saved game per track and more than 1 championship season 5) Printing is supported, so you can print race results/champ season standings/garage settings/etc. 6) Property sheets are supported so you can right-click on a game or garage setting and get info on that file. 7) The replay window is much better then the DOS version, giving easier access to switch focus to different drivers and cameras and locations in the replay. 8) A control is supplied where you can set how large to make your replay. If you want a replay to save a full 100% race at michigan (2:30 hrs approx) then you can do it... however, one draw back is you will experience a fair amount of paging with larger replay sizes. 9) You can double-click on a saved game or gararge settings file and ICRII will startup and load that file automatically for you. 10) On-line help BTW, I work at Sierra/Papyrus and worked on the Win95 version of ICR2... Later, Scott Scott Marison, Software Engineer Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

: >To make matters works Sierra's ftp site doesn't have a single Papyrus : >file at all. None of the earlier NASCAR, ICR or ICR2 patches exist at : >ftp://ftp.sierra.com : On the website http://www.sierra.com there is the ICR1 v1.04 patch in the : Support->Patches->Sports/Sims section. : I think the NASCAR patch is there too, but the only reason I remember the ICR1 : patch distinctly is that every day for the past week I've done a Netscape word : search for "indy" on that page to find the ICR2 patch and it always takes me to : the ICR1 v1.04 patch. :-( Yes, their web site does have the NASCAR and ICR1.04 patches. However, they never posted the paintkit pacthes for ICR2. However, the real point is that many netters do not have web access and need to rely on ftp for obtaining patches. Sierra also has an ftp site (good for them), however there is not a single Papyrus patch to be found. To make matters worse the ftp site was at least updated as late as June 18 of this year. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

: Well, I was one of those who just cannot wait for anything, so I went to : my local Electronics Boutique and bought the Win95/MAC/DOS patched : version of ICR2. : Well, on to the DOS version 1.0.1-- So let me get this straight. The Patch is included with the Win 95 CD, but yet we have to WAIT for The Patch to clear Papyrus QA(sic)? What a joke. Why don't you just tell us the REAL plan? It's VERY obvious that you think by holding the patch and releasing a $54 CD with the patch on it that we will just go and blow $54 for a free upgrade. Doubt it! Let's get on with it. All your doing is damaging your reputation, if you can consider that you have one after releasing yet another buggy version of s/w. I wonder how long it will take you to patch the Win 95 version.

: :>So... What exactly is the benefit of the Win95 copy (besides the obvious :>convenience of not having to be in DOS mode to run the game)? : :10 Benifits of Win95: : [Ten reasons snipped!] They all sound great, but none of them actually enhance the racing experience - what about better sound, faster graphics, higher resolutions, sharper control input? From the feedback I've seen, none of these are present. I wanted to see ICR2 work for Win95, so don't write me off as another DOS fanatic - where I work, DirectDraw is doing some stunning things with 2D graphics. : :BTW, I work at Sierra/Papyrus and worked on the Win95 version of :ICR2... Uh, huh. At least you're honest enough to admit to your vested interest. : :Later, :Scott : :Scott Marison, Software Engineer :Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division : Ken

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>10 Benifits of Win95: >BTW, I work at Sierra/Papyrus and worked on the Win95 version of >ICR2... >Later, >Scott >Scott Marison, Software Engineer >Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

How is the frame rate versiont he DOS version on identical hardware?

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> >So... What exactly is the benefit of the Win95 copy (besides the obvious > >convenience of not having to be in DOS mode to run the game)? > 10 Benifits of Win95: > 1) (mentioned above) you don't need to switch into DOS mode > 2) There is a better UI > 3) The Paint Shop in Win95 (and MAC) is tons better then the DOS > Paint Shop > 4) You can have more than 1 saved game per track and more than > 1 championship season > 5) Printing is supported, so you can print race results/champ season > standings/garage settings/etc. > 6) Property sheets are supported so you can right-click on a game or > garage setting and get info on that file. > 7) The replay window is much better then the DOS version, giving > easier access to switch focus to different drivers and cameras > and locations in the replay. > 8) A control is supplied where you can set how large to make your > replay. If you want a replay to save a full 100% race at michigan > (2:30 hrs approx) then you can do it... however, one draw back is > you will experience a fair amount of paging with larger replay > sizes. > 9) You can double-click on a saved game or gararge settings file > and ICRII will startup and load that file automatically for you. > 10) On-line help > BTW, I work at Sierra/Papyrus and worked on the Win95 version of > ICR2... > Later, > Scott > Scott Marison, Software Engineer > Sierra On-Line/Papyrus Division

Scott, Perhaps, since worked on the Win95 ver., you can answer the following questions that have, thus far, stumped your senior techs: 1) Win version --Why will in not work on a P6 200 (gateway) - loads fine, resources fine - main screen OK, garage OK, but when you attempt kernel.dll from microsoft(as was suggested )but I still get the same fault. They're at a loss to explain why it won't work. Any ideas...otherwise it goes back to the store. 2) Dos version -- whatever causes the setup program to keep "discovering" the mouse as control input is a enormous pain-in-the-ass... forcing you to bypass the driver. Why was this changed, it worked just fine in the initial version. 3) Dos version -- if you try to change the number of competitors it jumps to 22 and will not change to higher number after that. ??? Thanks for any input.

THE ONE BENEFIT OF THE WIN95 VERSION IS SLOWER FRAME RATES (BENEFIT????????) For example, you are approaching a corner at Michigan - you are doing about 200, you go into the corner, your machines pauses for a second, your hard drive light goes on for a couple of milliseconds, your machines unpauses and next thing you know BANG!!! you have gone into the wall - NICE EH?????

I too noticed the same thing - I kept getting an FPS of 29 without track texture. I have a P166 / 32 meg / Matrox 2 meg WRAM and everything couple of seconds my PC would stop for what seemed like seconds... One second you are approaching a corner then pause, hard drive access, unpause, into the wall. This was really annoying. I thought that it was maybe my machine but now you also say it is happening to you???? The only thing I enjoyed was the PaintShop. This is probably all I will use ICR2-WIN95 for... A WORD OF ADVICE TO ALL - STAY AWAY FROM ICR2/WIN95. IT IS UNPLAYABLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott, None of the 10 benefits of ICR2 for Win95 you listed had anything to do with actual game/sim play. They were all bells & whistles which are nice but what about the "meat" of the program and that is "simulating" driving a CART/IRL indycar. Shawn in Cleveland

> you are approaching a corner at Michigan - you are doing about 200, you > go into the corner, your machines pauses for a second, your hard drive > light goes on for a couple of milliseconds, your machines unpauses and > next thing you know BANG!!! you have gone into the wall - NICE EH????? That's not a frame rate problem, it sounds more like a problem with Win95 itself. What kind of virtual memory settings are you using (swapfile and vcache)? Also do you have the auto-insert notification of CDs enabled or disabled? Either of these could be responsible for unexplained hard-drive access and pauses in gameplay. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick