GP2 - Solid performance info

Hi everyone, One of the things worrying everyone about GP2 is the incredible amount of money needed to be spent on hardware. Just how "incredible" is incredible?! Well MPS are too busy finishing it, so we at Sim Racing News got hold of a copy and did some tests (and before we're accused of piracy, no it's not the dodgy super-virus copy going round the warez scene. This puppy's legit!). Thanks to Marc for all that hard work "testing" GP2 (playing while he should be working....!). -=-=-=-=---=-==--=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-== Sim Racing News - Special Report GP2 Graphic Performance Summary - 6/22/96 Marc Nelson - Editor, SRN-USA (use Crtl-T to view) ====================================================================== Here are some preliminary results of system performance for GP2. All 16 included tracks were tested for the evaluation of "practical" gameplay for both VGA and SVGA (using the game's auto-detail feature). The following is intended as a guide ONLY, and are not conclusive. Performance may be different depending on system and video card. SYSTEM AS TESTED CPU: 100MHz Intel (over-clocked to 120) RAM: 16Mb CACHE: 256k VIDEO: Diamond Stealth-64 (video), w/ 2Mb DRAM DETAIL LEVEL ================================================================ VGA TEXTURES | MIRRORS SVGA TEXTURES | MIRRORS ================================================================ Kerbs X X X - Fences X X X - Verges X X X - Track X X X - Bank X X X - Hills X X X - Cars X X X X Objects X X X - Sky X X - - VGA SVGA VGA-2* ================================================================ Mirror Texture: On Off Off Objects Level: All All All FPS Avgerage: 17 16 25+ VGA & SVGA PERFORMANCE REMARKS ================================================================ Track Practice | Race Remarks VGA-2* ================================================================ Brazil Good Fair Excellent San Marino Fair Fair Excellent Spain Good Fair Excellent Monaco Poor Poor Fair Canada Good Good (Some Flaws) Excellent France Good Fair Excellent Britain Good Fair Excellent Germany Fair Fair Excellent Hungary Fair Poor Good Belgium Fair Poor Good Italy Good Good (Some Flaws) Excellent Portugal Good Good (Some Flaws) Excellent Europe Good Fair Excellent Pacific Fair Fair Excellent Japan Good Fair Excellent Austrailia Fair Poor Good Estimated Remark Frames Per Second Key (Avgerage) ================================================================ Poor 10-11 Unacceptable (Virtually Unplayable) Fair 12-15 Playable (Some Flaws) Good 16-20 Playable (Virtually Jitter-Free) Excellent 20-25 Near Video Performance *VGA-2 25+ (Using same level of detail as SVGA) More info to be made available in the July issue of Sim Racing News, which will be available the first-week of July. Thanks to all for your continued support!!! See ya' in July :) -L8BRKR -=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- If anyone has any questions about the frame rates or hardware required, let me know. I'm running a P-200 with Herc Stingray 2Mb, so I'll post the results as soon as I have a chance to do some testing. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

Delete I guess this was a Pentium CPU? Delete Would it be possible to post the raw text to this group - I am not as yet WWW "linked" and would love to see your reviews of GP2 anf the F1 for Playstation. Or is the text archived somewhere to get via FTP? Cheers Al

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> Estimated >Remark Frames Per Second > Key (Avgerage) >================================================================ >Poor 10-11 Unacceptable (Virtually Unplayable) >Fair 12-15 Playable (Some Flaws) >Good 16-20 Playable (Virtually Jitter-Free) >Excellent 20-25 Near Video Performance >*VGA-2 25+ (Using same level of detail as SVGA)

One way to see what it will run like at these frame rates is to run the old f1gp and go th 'game options' and set the frame rate. Then play the game and see what it's like. By the way, what is VGA-2 ??? =========================================== James ====== THE AUSTRALIAN SPORT PAGE======= http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jaymz/aussport.html ===========================================

Thanks for the performance info! A couple of questions for you intrepid F1GP2 testers: What is VGA2? Is is like the 320x400 mode in Doom? SVGA/2? I am very curious. I run NASCAR racing now in VGA (eeew) but I like the smoothness of the graphics. I run ICR2 in SVGA and the frame rate is more than acceptable. If VGA2 runs that well, I will use it, but how does it look? Have you tried the Networking? Is there networking. I am really looking forward to this, if it exists as I have a small subnet in my house! Please let me know! Looking forward in unabated anticipation, Jeff -- Jeffrey Hunsberger ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ get the latest racing news at my news link site: the A P E X: Jeff's Racing Links Site http://www.voicenet.com/~jeffreyh/apex ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Netscape 2.0 enhanced!!

>By the way, what is VGA-2 ??? VGA-2 is running the same amount of detail as was used in SVGA mode, but is running in VGA mode. I don't think it's an official term or anything ;-)

writes VGA is the 320x200 with ALL textures. VGA-2 is 320x200 but with some textures off so that it is the same as the settings we used for SVGA. That way you can compare VGA and SVGA more meaningfully. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

Thanks Dave :) I thought I'd explained that in the original post, I was beginning to think I was cracking up! (and yes, VGA-2 is Marc's own expression for it!). Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

It is explained in the post (I think, unless I deleted that bit!!). It is VGA mode (320x200), except with some textures removed so it had exactly the same textures as the tests we did in SVGA mode (no track or sky essentially). SVGA is fine on a P-100 with low mirror detail and no sky or track texture, but if you turn on sky or track......YOUCH! Slow. The overall opinion was - surprise! We were really expecting SLOOOOOOW, but actually everyone's fears are unfounded. If you reduce the frame texture levels to the same as ICR2, the game is actually about 50% FASTER. Most VGA games really suck compared to the same game in SVGA - that is not true of GP2. It looks great in VGA, and if I hadn't seen it in SVGA I'd have been delighted with VGA (looks REAL cool in SVGA though!). There's no networking in the initial release. There is an intention to release an upgrade, probably at the end of this year or early next year. The content of the upgrade hasn't been decided yet, but network play is one of the options. If you want more info, check out the GP2 previews in Sim Racing News. There's a lot of info there (and so there should be, they took me long enough to research and write!!). The URL is in my .sig. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

>The overall opinion was - surprise! We were really expecting SLOOOOOOW, >but actually everyone's fears are unfounded. If you reduce the frame >texture levels to the same as ICR2, the game is actually about 50% >FASTER. Well, I get 23fps in SVGA for ICR2. That's worst case with all details on and all cars seen. Since you state that F1GP2 is about 50% faster, then can I expect that I can run F1GP2 with all textures on in SVGA at 28-30fps worst case on my P6? Tell you what, send me that F1GP2 CD by FEDEX and I'll do some testing on a P6 for SRN. :^)

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>Cheers! >John > _________________________________ > __ _____| |_____ __ >_________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ > \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < > / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ >/_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

=========================================================== Alex Fernandez MTS Lucent Technologies No. Andover, MA email: tel: (508)960-6510 ===========================================================

: >The overall opinion was - surprise! We were really expecting SLOOOOOOW, : >but actually everyone's fears are unfounded. If you reduce the frame : >texture levels to the same as ICR2, the game is actually about 50% : >FASTER. : > : Well, I get 23fps in SVGA for ICR2. That's worst case with all details on : and all cars seen. Since you state that F1GP2 is about 50% faster, then can : I expect that I can run F1GP2 with all textures on in SVGA at 28-30fps : worst case on my P6? Tell you what, send me that F1GP2 CD by FEDEX and : I'll do some testing on a P6 for SRN. :^) We have to keep in mind that the 3D simulator engine in F1GP2 is the most advanced so far in car simulators. It features shadows under the cars from blocking the sun, phong shading highlights (shiny spots from light reflections) as well as sophisticated physical calculations. And considering that, even though the framerate might be slower in SVGA F1GP2 than other car sims this engine might very well be the fastest around. If one disables all the extra features not implemented in, for example, ICR2, the fra merate would probably be a lot faster. /Linus +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Linus Girdland | Studying Software Engineering at | | | Karlskrona/Ronneby in Sweden | | Vapnarstigen 3 | | | S-372 35 Ronneby | | | Phone: +46-(0)457-14447 | | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Hi Dave, For your P-90 you could turn off all mirror textures and some "main" textures and the game would fly in SVGA. Right now you have a P-90, but they were worth hundreds a few months ago, and now are worth a mere fraction of that. Give it six months to a year and a P-166 will be had for about 100 or so. You know GP2 will run great on that, and how long will we be playing this? You just said that you are STILL playing F1GP :) Honestly, it is REALLY configurable, to the point where I doubt anyone will have a problem, certainly no Pentium user. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

:For your P-90 you could turn off all mirror textures and some "main" :textures and the game would fly in SVGA. Right now you have a P-90, but :they were worth hundreds a few months ago, and now are worth a mere :fraction of that. Give it six months to a year and a P-166 will be had :for about 100 or so. You know GP2 will run great on that, and how long :will we be playing this? You just said that you are STILL playing F1GP ::) : :Honestly, it is REALLY configurable, to the point where I doubt anyone :will have a problem, certainly no Pentium user. John, the one question that hasn't been answered by all these performance figures is how does it compare to ICR2 at a similar detail level? TIA Ken

[...] Pentium, I presume? EDO? Bog-standard DRAM? PCI, I presume, not VL-BUS? Sorry, I just felt like being really picky. Such performance stats are all very well, but there are so many factors wich can be forgotten or overlooked... *exits Grumpy Old Git mode* --

Ahem...yes....<sheepish grin> Here I have a bit of a confession to make. When I said VGA2 was the equivalent to the SVGA textures, it wasn't! Actually VGA2 is GP2 with the textures turned down to be the same level as ICR2 - so you can compare the VGA2 figures with those from ICR2 Sorry 'bout that...!! _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

Yes. Standard PCI Such as whether it had pipeline burst-cache (no), used aggressive BIOS settings (yes), had UniVBE installed (no) or other things we never mentioned? :) As Marc mentioned, we'll have more info in Sim Racing News, but we thought people would like a preview at the moment. This was done as soon as the latest beta was received, and the time since then has been spent playing it :) I thought it was good going managing to do any tests at all!! Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

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>Hi Dave, >For your P-90 you could turn off all mirror textures and some "main" >textures and the game would fly in SVGA. Right now you have a P-90, but >they were worth hundreds a few months ago, and now are worth a mere >fraction of that. Give it six months to a year and a P-166 will be had >for about 100 or so. You know GP2 will run great on that, and how long >will we be playing this? You just said that you are STILL playing F1GP >:) >Honestly, it is REALLY configurable, to the point where I doubt anyone >will have a problem, certainly no Pentium user. >Cheers! >John

Well; I can't argue with that. F1GP is still worth playing now, even if it is a tad easy. I'm not really a fan of turning main textures off, but if it plays OK, it plays OK. If all else fails I'll stick it on the home business computer [P150] and just not tell anyone ;-) Anyway, I'm happy as a pig in poo playing in VGA to be honest. Yours processor-ly challenged, Dave.

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> Such as whether it had pipeline burst-cache (no), used aggressive BIOS > settings (yes), had UniVBE installed (no) or other things we never > mentioned? :) > Cheers! > John > _________________________________ > __ _____| |_____ __ > _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ > \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < > / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ > /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

John, Please help me out - what do you class as "aggressive BIOS settings"?

I'm doing something about it in Sim Racing News this month, but bascially you can set your BIOS to run with very fast memory/cache access among other things. They are set to reasonably safe settings by default. This can have a marked effect on the performance of your PC and software. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

On Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:02:32 +0100, John Wallace

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> >Please help me out - what do you class as "aggressive BIOS settings"? > I'm doing something about it in Sim Racing News this month, but > bascially you can set your BIOS to run with very fast memory/cache > access among other things. They are set to reasonably safe settings by > default. This can have a marked effect on the performance of your PC and > software.

Hmm, this sounds good. I wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about this from any of you who are knowledgeble about the subject... -- -----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Colin Campbell Confush, he say: "Don't wash *** ovens!" | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mail me for _my_ "Bottom" scripts! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------