upgrade from 486 to Pentium; an unbiased report

In case anyone is thinking about upgrading from a 486DX280 for the express purpose of running NASCAR Racing, here is some unbiased information. I test drove NASCAR Racing in a Pentium 120 with only a 1MB DRAM PCI video card and I got 25 fps with no textures on except car textures. I was drawing 20 cars ahead. I usually get only 14 fps on my 486DX280. I bought a Pentium 133 with a Tyan Titan III 512K Pipe Burst Cache Motherboard. I suspect I'll be pleased with it. This fall I'll upgrade my video card to something of the 64bit and/or 3D variety once I determine which one is best. We'll have to see if the increased CPU power improves my lap speeds. David Martin IVL Series Director hawaii dgm26sam IVGA 3838

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> In case anyone is thinking about upgrading from a 486DX280 for the > express purpose of running NASCAR Racing, here is some unbiased > information. > I test drove NASCAR Racing in a Pentium 120 with only a 1MB DRAM PCI > video card and I got 25 fps with no textures on except car textures. I > was drawing 20 cars ahead. I usually get only 14 fps on my 486DX280. > I bought a Pentium 133 with a Tyan Titan III 512K Pipe Burst Cache > Motherboard. I suspect I'll be pleased with it. This fall I'll > upgrade my video card to something of the 64bit and/or 3D variety once I > determine which one is best. > We'll have to see if the increased CPU power improves my lap speeds. > David Martin > IVL Series Director > hawaii dgm26sam > IVGA 3838

I myself recently upgraded my Quantex 75MHz Pentium system with a Tyan Titan III, 512K PB cache, 133 MHz Pentium overclocked to 166MHz, 16 MB EDO RAM, and a Matrox Millenium 2 MB retail version video card. I think you will be very pleased with your choices, just as I am. The frame rate for the regular version of NASCAR increased a good bit, but I am using the version that came optimized for the Matrox. I get around 25-27 fps, depending on the track, with everything on but asphalt and occasionally grass textures. And from my experience, your lap times will improve. My times for ICR2 on some tracks came down by 1-2 seconds per lap. As for a new graphics card, I think I would wait for one of the cards with the Rendition 3D chip, as it will be supported by NASCAR 2 and a future version of ICR2. From reports I have heard, you will be able to have everything turned on and achieve around 40 fps, and I think this is for a 90-100MHz Pentium (although I may be mistaken, someone please correct me if I am wrong). Should be awesome. Eric Giles

Two things David... Firstly a P-100 or P-133 would give better performance than the P-120. NASCAR is trying to shovel a heck of a lot of graphics info through the PCI bus, and the P-120 is 10% slower than the P-100 and P-133 (30Mhz instead of 33). Secondly, a fast video card will make the difference of several fps over a "vanilla" 1Mb PCI. Try a Hercules Stingray PCI (2Mb EDO-DRAM), or even the new Hercules 128 - either of these will seriously improve your frame rate, and aren't too expensive. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

> > In case anyone is thinking about upgrading from a 486DX280 for the > > express purpose of running NASCAR Racing, here is some unbiased > I myself recently upgraded my Quantex 75MHz Pentium system with a Tyan Titan III, 512K PB cache, > 133 MHz Pentium overclocked to 166MHz, 16 MB EDO RAM, and a Matrox Millenium 2 MB retail version > video card. I think you will be very pleased with your choices, just as I am. The frame rate for This is an update: I got my P133 on a Tyan Titan III 512K Pipe Burst Cache home and I get 30 fps with a full field. All graphics on, but only car textures. This is sufficient for me. I don't care to see the grandstands full yet. That is good news about the Rendition 3D chip. I'm looking forward to that. One problem though with mine that I wonder if anyone else has experienced. This never happened before I upgraded my CPU. I qualified 36th at Pocono and when the race started, my car was placed in the field right on top of another car. It instantly causes a wreck. I tried again and the same thing happened. I requalified 17th and something else happened. The race started fine, but one car in the outside row wouldn't move and noone behind them could pass. They were still sitting there when the inside line took the green flag. I've never seen this happen before. Has anyone else experienced this? David Martin

>I myself recently upgraded my Quantex 75MHz Pentium system with a Tyan Titan III, 512K PB cache, >133 MHz Pentium overclocked to 166MHz, 16 MB EDO RAM, and a Matrox Millenium 2 MB ... >... And from my experience, your lap times will improve.... So that is why you are so fast. Eric Giles is egiles on Hawaii. He is fast!!! Looks like my P90 is slowing me down? I have to blame it on something. -- Best Wishes!!! Robert Huggins Raleigh, NC

>Firstly a P-100 or P-133 would give better performance than the P-120. >NASCAR is trying to shovel a heck of a lot of graphics info through the >PCI bus, and the P-120 is 10% slower than the P-100 and P-133 (30Mhz >instead of 33). Forgive me for my lack of Pentium skills, Some are 30 Mhz bus and some are 33 Mhz bus? 30 = 60, 90, 120, 150 33 = 66, 100, 133, 166, 200 Is it that simple? Upgrade paths follow bus speeds? Games like NASCAR are more sensitive to bus speed than processor speed? You said a P100 is better than a P120. What about a P150 -vs- P100? Is this a science or just practical experience? -- Best Wishes!!! Robert Huggins Raleigh, NC

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> >I myself recently upgraded my Quantex 75MHz Pentium system with a Tyan Titan III, 512K PB cache, > >133 MHz Pentium overclocked to 166MHz, 16 MB EDO RAM, and a Matrox Millenium 2 MB ... > >... And from my experience, your lap times will improve.... > So that is why you are so fast. > Eric Giles is egiles on Hawaii. He is fast!!! > Looks like my P90 is slowing me down? > I have to blame it on something. > -- > Best Wishes!!! > Robert Huggins > Raleigh, NC

Dang it, I shouldn't have opened my big mouth-now everyone will know my secret! Actually, all the credit for my recent success at Talladega goes to Mr. Huggins himself, as he graciously lent me his setup while we were testing during a modem race. Thanks once again, Robert-and your pretty darn fast yourself! Eric Giles

:) Correct. Actually the BEST upgrade path is to buy the 60Mhz part, and overclock it to the 66Mhz part (buy a P-120 and and run it at 133). that way you get the cheaper price AND the faster speed :) Well, that's a tricky one. Obviously having a P180 (60mhz) will be far better than having a P-66 (66Mhz), but generally it's not a good idea to target a 60Mhz bus. It also depends what video card you have, some are very sensitive to a 60Mhz bus and give lower performance (Matrox), and others still give a linear performance improvement (Herc Stingray for example). The 150 will be better, in the order of 30% although I haven't actually got any figures on it (you'll notice that it SHOULD be 50% faster, but actually it will be a lot less than that because you're losing out on the bus and PCI speeds. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

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>>Forgive me for my lack of Pentium skills, >:) >>Some are 30 Mhz bus and some are 33 Mhz bus? >>30 = 60, 90, 120, 150 >>33 = 66, 100, 133, 166, 200 >>Is it that simple? Upgrade paths follow bus speeds? >Correct. Actually the BEST upgrade path is to buy the 60Mhz part, and >overclock it to the 66Mhz part (buy a P-120 and and run it at 133). that >way you get the cheaper price AND the faster speed :)

Please forgive me also for this question as it may be obvious to most but I have an AT&T 100mhz Pentium - PCI Video, ect... and am lost as to Bus speeds vs. upgrades, ect... How do I find out my bus speed now and what is my best/safest upgrade path concerning CPUs? AT&Ttech. says the 133 has been tested/approved for my system but I figured on waiting for a larger increase such as 166 or 200 if available in the future. Would Nascar run faster graphics with such an upgrade or should I concentrate on my lowly S3-Trio64 video and upgrade to a better card first? Thanks for any info. Ron

> > >I myself recently upgraded my Quantex 75MHz Pentium system with a Tyan Titan III, 512K PB cache, > > >133 MHz Pentium overclocked to 166MHz, 16 MB EDO RAM, and a Matrox Millenium 2 MB ... > > >... And from my experience, your lap times will improve.... My system upgrade has gotten me about 1mph across the board on nearly all tracks. This probably means that most of my setups are only mediocre. I'm not a top 100 qualifier at any track and probably won't be anytime soon unless I can fix my setups. At Talladega, I have seen zilch for increases. The Pentium has not helped at all, just as I suspected. Most tracks where my speeds went up are tracks where the frame rate was lower. Talladega just eludes me to no end. My best is 194.6xx. Good enough to make the field 90% of the time I'm sure but I hate looking at secondary sponsor plates. :-) David Martin