Daytona Patch gone

The Daytona Patch Preview on The Pits is gone. Does anybody know why they removed it? I think that it must finally be done and going to come out real soon. This is just what I think but I am only guessing. I have not talked to Neil or Jed but if anybody knows if my guess is right tell me.

Sega had Jed assasinated. ;) -- |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| | Later! | | Markmc #35 | | (Closed Beta 8/95) | | http://www.katt.com/mmcars.html | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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>Subject: Re: Daytona Patch gone >Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:43:26 -0700 >> The Daytona Patch Preview on The Pits is gone. Does anybody know why >> they removed it? I think that it must finally be done and going to come >> out real soon. This is just what I think but I am only guessing. I have >> not talked to Neil or Jed but if anybody knows if my guess is right tell me. >Sega had Jed assasinated. >;)

Aha, I *knew* Oliver Stone would come out sooner or later...<g> ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

Sega owns the rights to all racing software involving the name and likeness of Daytona. By releasing the patch they could open themselves up to a major legal (and financial) problem. They need to find a loophole before it goes public.

> Sega owns the rights to all racing software involving the name and > likeness of Daytona. By releasing the patch they could open > themselves up to a major legal (and financial) problem. They need to > find a loophole before it goes public. Its still a preview but they moved it off front page to bottom of the workshop :) gotta want enough to look..

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> >Subject: Re: Daytona Patch gone > >Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:43:26 -0700 > >> The Daytona Patch Preview on The Pits is gone. Does anybody know why > >> they removed it? I think that it must finally be done and going to come > >> out real soon. This is just what I think but I am only guessing. I have > >> not talked to Neil or Jed but if anybody knows if my guess is right tell me. > >Sega had Jed assasinated. > >;) > Aha, I *knew* Oliver Stone would come out sooner or later...<g> > ________ > Eldred Pickett > I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

Here is a e-mail I received via the IVGA's NASCAR mailing list. It should explain everything. Kyle Subject: DAYTONA BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!! Date: Thu, 23 May 96 22:17:01 +0000 All, Well, it had to happen. Like real racing, you don't find the limits unless you push them and sadly, it looks like The Pits pushed them too far. On 13th May 1996, Jan Kohl who runs the US Mirror of The Pits, recieved a call from Andrew Gurtis, licensing director for Daytona Speedway and Talladega. What follows is based on e-mail from Jan. Jan was asked if he owned a web site called The Pits and was asked for a mailing address. When Jan asked why, he was told that 'they could not allow the Daytona Patch to proceed' and they wished to send an official letter asking us to 'cease and desist with the project'. Jan exlpained that he was not directly involved with the project and was just the aministrater of the US Mirror. He said that before he release any mailing addresses, he would have to speak to me first. I responded by writing a fairly lengthy e-mail to Andrew, explaining the following points about the Daytona Patch. 1) The Patch is so called because is is designed to 'PATCH the whole left by DAYTONA' in the simulator. 2) Although in the preview the track was named Daytona, this was done to prove it could be done. The actual release version would be released under a fictional track name. 3) The track is based on data from the Talladega track supplied with Nascar racing. All scenery changes, apart from bitmap textures, are taken from data, already existing in the Nascar simulation and Track Pack. No alterations have been made to the shape of Talladega to make it any more like Daytona. 4) The patch works by taking data from other DAT files alreading existing on the users hard disk and compiling them into a new file. My argument was that without using the Daytona name, using a track layout already licensed by them for use in the game and the fact that we make no money from it, surely can't be a breach of licensing. Anyhow, to date I have recieved no reply from Andrew Gurtis or anyone else at DIS. I have forwarded a mailing address to him, via Jan, with which to issue an official written statement of intent. Once this is recieved I will post all relevent information to The Pits. In the meantime, both Jan and I have decided that the Daytona Patch is suspended until the matter is resolved. It is unlikley that it will be released unless Daytona have a change of heart or agree that there is no breach of licensing laws. To fill you in, this is how far it had got. The actual track was finished 6 weeks ago and tested by myself and Jan. New AI was tested and all agreed that it transformed the Talladega 'base' into something better. I had just started to write the actual patch EXE two week ago and was about halfway done a few weeks ago. So there you have it. Many of you had noticed that the Daytona page had gone from the US site and some of you though this was being done to make way for the finished product. Sorry to disapoint you all. However, don't lose heart. I'm still working on other things. I'm currently experimenting with other tracks and at present I'm working on a 'dirt oval' which has a surface the same as the grass at other tracks and some interesting handling. I'm also thinking of writing some Windows based editors to alter things like Driver AI and track settings. All in all, maybe now the Daytona project is on hold, I'll have more time to sort ot The Pits. Anyhow, thanks for all the support over the past few months. Please take note of the following. Do not e-mail me asking/begging me to send you the track. I wont and your e-mail won't even get replied to! Any if you want, drop Daytona a line and let them now what you think, but don't be rude or insultive, it won't get us anywhere. Regards Neil

Speaking of track patches and track conversions and new tracks, you know, all that fantastic stuff that we can get off The Pits, how about this idea. How interesting would it be to race Nascars if they were the same weight as the Indycars... Also, how many tracks do we have now with the indy and nascar tracks all together? 30 something, I'm not sure. Imagaine if we could race them in the reverse direction. I don't mean all the AI cars running in reverse direction, too. Kamikaze

They removed it because Daytona asked them to and they didn't want to lock horns legally. They're still looking at the idea that they might be able to produce the same track, without the Daytona name, but, at the moment, the 'Daytona' conversion is dead. Mike -- _ ___/ \___ Speed Bump Motorsports... The name says it all. NRL95 #110 Hershey's Kiss Chevrolet Monte Carlo PRO95 #53 Hershey's Kiss Penske PC23/Ilmor D SIMCAR96 #45 Hershey's Kiss Pontiac Grand Prix IVGA #2027 (membership, not the car!)

>Also, how many tracks do we have now with the indy and nascar tracks all >together? 30 something, I'm not sure. Imagaine if we could race them in >the reverse direction. I don't mean all the AI cars running in reverse >direction, too. That's an interesting thought - I wonder if enough is known about the track format to make a "track inverter" utility. Joe

>Sega owns the rights to all racing software involving the name and >likeness of Daytona. By releasing the patch they could open >themselves up to a major legal (and financial) problem. They need to >find a loophole before it goes public. what exactly did this patch accomplish? curious. Steven Travers Associate Producer Papyrus Design Group

Subject: Re: Daytona Patch gone MM>Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:43:26 -0700 MM>> The Daytona Patch Preview on The Pits is gone. Does anybody know why MM>> they removed it? I think that it must finally be done and going to come MM>> out real soon. This is just what I think but I am only guessing. I have MM>> not talked to Neil or Jed but if anybody knows if my guess is right tell m . MM>Sega had Jed assasinated. MM>;) Sonic, your mission, if you choose to accept it.... --- t OLXWin 1.00b t ... I distinctly remember forgetting that!

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>Hi, Roy here. >What I meant to say in that last sentence was "I mean all the AI cars >running in reverse direction as well". That would give us virtually 30 >something new tracks...The only trouble I have with this is, I used to >drive the Lotus racing game on my Amiga and was rapt in it (a great two >player game, even if it wasn't as realistic as ICR2). Then came Turbo >Challenge 2, and then the third edition with the track editor. Suddenly >there was an infinite number of tracks and I lost interest. Too many >tracks. I've been indy for two or three years now constantly and I >wouldn't like to lose interest in it.

Hmmm, that's strange, I don't really see how too many tracks can ever be a problem. Need For Speed has a track editor, and the fact that you can download tracks from the net (or make your own) only adds to the game. Joe

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> >Also, how many tracks do we have now with the indy and nascar tracks all > >together? 30 something, I'm not sure. Imagaine if we could race them in > >the reverse direction. I don't mean all the AI cars running in reverse > >direction, too. > That's an interesting thought - I wonder if enough is known about the > track format to make a "track inverter" utility. > Joe

Hi, Roy here. What I meant to say in that last sentence was "I mean all the AI cars running in reverse direction as well". That would give us virtually 30 something new tracks...The only trouble I have with this is, I used to drive the Lotus racing game on my Amiga and was rapt in it (a great two player game, even if it wasn't as realistic as ICR2). Then came Turbo Challenge 2, and then the third edition with the track editor. Suddenly there was an infinite number of tracks and I lost interest. Too many tracks. I've been indy for two or three years now constantly and I wouldn't like to lose interest in it. Roy

what exactly did this patch accomplish? curious. >Steven Travers >Associate Producer >Papyrus Design Group it took objects from other tracks to turn Talladega into Daytona, the AI was modified, so the AI cars would attempt to pass and run 2 and 3 wide. -Tim Hennies "Pay no mind to us, we're just a minor threat!" "Racing is a part of me, it's in my ***."

go to the uk site it is still there and is updated with a release date

Yeah! What size track? Dirt trackin'! Whee! Hmm... time for IWCCCARS to make an ARCA carset, eh? Heh. Haven't read the group in a while. Been practicing a bit now that I got a T2. Instantly I was able to drive without bouncing off walls. Finally not as frustrating. Set fastest practice speed at Atlanta with 100% opponent strength, and even managed not to hit anyone while in the middle of a three-a*** situation all the way around a couple corners. Just gotta get a consistency down; my average times were still worse than the opponents. Oh, and, uh, getting the other tracks down too might help, eh? -- [link lost in import: /~keeper/toons.html] -- Contemporary WB cartoons info. [link lost in import: /~keeper/midi.html] -- My own MIDI music and arrangements.

%>> %>>> The Daytona Patch Preview on The Pits is gone. Does anybody know why %>>> they removed it? I think that it must finally be done and going to come %> %>They removed it because Daytona asked them to and they didn't want to lock %>horns legally. They're still looking at the idea that they might be able to %>produce the same track, without the Daytona name, but, at the moment, the %>'Daytona' conversion is dead. %> I really don't get this thing with the name Daytona. Does that means that I can't spell Daytona without infringing the law?? Absurd! And the things in "The Pits" aren't meant to make money, are they?? Remember when Intel tried to register the number 80586 for the Pentium?? The judges laughed the shit out of themselves; imagine someone having to pay for using the number Pi, for instance... This whole thing is outrageous! I'm gonna write 'till I get tired: Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, Daytona, .... Sue me, Sega!!! ________ / |__ \ Eduardo Piovani Dias - Systems Programmer / | \ \ State University of Campinas, SP - Brazil (UNICAMP) / | ) \ "Gleb Wataghin" Physics Institute (IFGW) (------ |__/ ) "John David Rogers" Computing Center (CCJDR) \ | / personal e-mail: \____|___/

>And the things in "The Pits" aren't meant to make money, are they?? Several people have tried to explain this before. It has absolutely nothing to do with making money. It has everything to do with making an effort to protect your property. If you fail to protect your property, be it real estate or intellectual property, then you can lose it to someone else. In the case of intellectual property, you lose it to everyone, i.e. it becomes public domain. Dave "davids" Sparks Sequoia Motorsports

True, but if Daytona was to ever be made, which would you rather get, a free copy or a purchased copy??? That's one reason, others have given just as valid reasons as that one. As far as Intel with the 80586, the real reasoning was for patent purposes. The patent office can't patent a number, so Intel changed to the Pentium, which allowed them a patent. With the pattent in place, AMD, Cyrix, and others couldn't just reverse engineer the chip, they had to acually come up with an original design. That's why Intel chips performed so much better than Cyrix's first 5x86 chip. Stopping the babling.... Chris

>As far as Intel with the 80586, the real reasoning was for patent >purposes. The patent office can't patent a number, so Intel changed >to the Pentium, which allowed them a patent. With the pattent in >place, AMD, Cyrix, and others couldn't just reverse engineer the chip, >they had to acually come up with an original design. That's why Intel >chips performed so much better than Cyrix's first 5x86 chip. Intel was granted a trademark on the name, not a patent. You can't patent a name, you patent a process. And Intel's trademark on the name Pentium(R) has nothing whatsoever to do with the ability of other companies to reverse-engineer the chip, it only prevents them from selling chips that use the Pentium name. Intel may also have patents on the technology used in the Pentium, but that has nothing to do with the name. Dave "davids" Sparks Sequoia Motorsports