HAWAII Is A Waste Of Time!

First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not worth the time. Secondly, after being taken out on the second lap in only my second race on Hawaii, I will no longer use the service. Another driver ran up behind me in turn one, even though I had the inside line all the way. He ran right into my right rear fender, deliberately sending me into the wall. I am an experienced racer who had qualified third in that race, so it wasn't an issue of ME not knowing how to drive, but an ugly incident which has turned me off of Hawaii for good. If you are thinking about getting involved witht he Hawaii multiplayer network, DON'T BOTHER. Kirn Cromur

Wow...very bitter, too bad we won't be blessed by your "talent". Geeez, lighten up! Put in some time, raise your rating, (if you can) and compete in some races that have some experienced drivers. This is an incredible thing Papyrus has done. Something that was unthinkable a short time ago. If you haven't got the maturity to deal with the fact that it's not "perfect" right from day one, maybe you need some life experience.... LB Hawaii: Rustbucket

Quoted text (16 lines)

> First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron > out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not > worth the time. > Secondly, after being taken out on the second lap in only my second race on > Hawaii, I will no longer use the service. Another driver ran up behind me > in turn one, even though I had the inside line all the way. He ran right > into my right rear fender, deliberately sending me into the wall. I am an > experienced racer who had qualified third in that race, so it wasn't an > issue of ME not knowing how to drive, but an ugly incident which has turned > me off of Hawaii for good. > If you are thinking about getting involved witht he Hawaii multiplayer > network, DON'T BOTHER. > Kirn Cromur

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy our open beta. Please do try to understand that it is still a beta test, so the "instability" you mention is all part of working out the bugs. That's why it's beta... that's why we aren't charging for it. As for people running into other people, racing online against real humans is VERY different from racing against computer cars. Everyone is ou there learning at the same time. Frankly, the best strategy at the start (as in when you first try Hawaii), is to hang way back at the start of the race. Inexperienced users tend to try to win the race on the first lap. Hang back, wait for any accidents to occur in front of you, then pass & enjoy the rest of the race. The people who crash on the first lap will prbably never catch up. -- Ed Martin Papyrus Design Group

>First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron >out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not >worth the time. Try and keep in mind your not a user, racer whatever your a beta tester...the service is not compete yet. Papyrus is not making a dime off this yet. Although the phone companies are makeing rather nicely. Make sure and let them know about unstable servers and any other problems thats the real reason were there. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MP Scurvydog #00 Simpson-Cowlings Motorsports http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~scurvydog/index.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I realize that I am simply a beta tester for the Hawaii network, but it's just not worth it. I agree that server problems can be forgiven, since this is all just a trial right now. However, having several cars pile up at the start finish line at the drop of the green flag is a complete joke. Papyrus can do nothing to improve or limit the idiocy expressed by MOST Hawaii drivers. I wasted 15 minutes waiting for a server for a race, practicing and then qualifying, only to have several cars slam into me as I waited for the cars in front of me to start moving (this was a no pace lap race). If Papyrus can set up a weeding system which will automatically and permanently ban those drivers who deliberately wrech their cars, I will use the service again. Since this is essentially impossible to monitor and accomplish, I won't be using Hawaii anymore. There are too many four year-olds on the network. Kirn Cromur

Sorry, I have plenty of maturity. The problem lies in those who lack it. Sure, I'd love to raise my rating, but how can I do that when EVERY race begins with a mass-accident? How can I raise my rating when I can't even start a lap because every car behind and in front of me is tangled in a wreck which sweeps me into it? I'm not going to waste my long distance phone bill on people who find pleasure in simply slamming into other cars. Kirn Cromur

Quoted text (16 lines)

> First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron > out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not > worth the time. > Secondly, after being taken out on the second lap in only my second race on > Hawaii, I will no longer use the service. Another driver ran up behind me > in turn one, even though I had the inside line all the way. He ran right > into my right rear fender, deliberately sending me into the wall. I am an > experienced racer who had qualified third in that race, so it wasn't an > issue of ME not knowing how to drive, but an ugly incident which has turned > me off of Hawaii for good. > If you are thinking about getting involved witht he Hawaii multiplayer > network, DON'T BOTHER. > Kirn Cromur

Kirn, It is a shame that you would let one incident turn you off to Hawaii. Sure there are frustrating things that happen in some races, like the one you speak of. But overall this multiplayer racing is great. I would hope to see you on there sometime in the future. Don DonC - Hawaii racer

> I realize that I am simply a beta tester for the Hawaii network, but it's > just not worth it. I agree that server problems can be forgiven, since > this is all just a trial right now. However, having several cars pile up The purpose of a beta is to discover any existing problems and to determine the best way to overcome those problems. If you want the final product to have those problems you experienced to be resolved, then continue to participate and report your findings. No one is forced to participate in a beta. Beta testing is like voting. If you don't vote, don't complain about who is elected. Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

Quoted text (16 lines)

>First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron >out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not >worth the time. >Secondly, after being taken out on the second lap in only my second race on >Hawaii, I will no longer use the service. Another driver ran up behind me >in turn one, even though I had the inside line all the way. He ran right >into my right rear fender, deliberately sending me into the wall. I am an >experienced racer who had qualified third in that race, so it wasn't an >issue of ME not knowing how to drive, but an ugly incident which has turned >me off of Hawaii for good. >If you are thinking about getting involved witht he Hawaii multiplayer >network, DON'T BOTHER. >Kirn Cromur

If you have only called the service twice then you cannot really make a statement as to the sever's stability. It is still in testing and many people seem to be having a great time racing for a couple of hours without a problem. Of course, your point about bad driving is well taken. Mike

> First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron > out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not > worth the time. This is a recent problem, and is no way indicative of what it has been over the last 7 months. The huge demand is obviously taking its toll! I think you will recall, or perhaps you forgot to read the text files, that this is in beta. Perhaps, you should give Papyrus a chance to fix the problems. Yes, it is annoying but suggesting it is not worth the time is showing a lack of maturity on your part! If you like the game which I assume you do or you wouldn't be playing it, the enjoyment factor is a ten fold improvement over the computer AI in my humble opinion! I have heard this same talk from almost every new user in the last few weeks! Two races make you an experienced driver! I am approaching 7000 miles in MP racing and I still think there is lots to learn! This game requires far more effort than the original or modem play versions. Fast qualifying means absolutely zero, racing with other people is what this game is all about. Perhaps if you dont have the time, that is required to learn the skills involved it is better that you race by yourself! There is nothing worse than a bad driver! Yes, there is! A driver with a bad Attitude! This, is by no means, a personal attack on your ability, even though I saw you on the system and didnt race you directly. I'm not saying the accidents were your fault or not because I dont know! I do know there are many poor drivers on the system, but as your skill increases and you become more efficient, you do get asked into leagues and get away from the poor drivers. If you are as good as you say you are then you shouldn't have to worry about it for long. The first race I ever had on the system, I qualified number 1 in Tally, guess what I got taken out in the pace lap. Did I cry, no! I figured the individual was new like me and that he made a mistake. When I found out he was one of the fastest on that track and one of the better drivers on the system. I was very disappointed! But in chatting with him after he apologized and said that I rattled him and he lost his concentration. We have become good friends since and have had some awesome races at Tally! Lap after lap of 197+ laps working together and a 15 second lead over 3rd. Plus being able to go through the tri 2 wide with no problem. I have even finished a race with Scott Nobles and Brian Tate, 3 across going through the tri, without touching! Trust(and a few deep breathes) is what it takes to be successful. I dont think I want to try this to often but it can be done! I hope I havent been too harsh but you used very strong language and I have answered in kind! Hopefully, you will change your mind and participate in the future, you got to see the ugly side, you have yet to experience the good. Most long time users are only to glad to help out the new users and get them over the initial hump. Pete

Quoted text (9 lines)

> I realize that I am simply a beta tester for the Hawaii network, but it's > just not worth it. I agree that server problems can be forgiven, since > this is all just a trial right now. However, having several cars pile up > at the start finish line at the drop of the green flag is a complete joke. > Papyrus can do nothing to improve or limit the idiocy expressed by MOST > Hawaii drivers. I wasted 15 minutes waiting for a server for a race, > practicing and then qualifying, only to have several cars slam into me as I > waited for the cars in front of me to start moving (this was a no pace lap > race).

Kirn, your first mistake was choosing a no pace lap race! Pace laps have there problems too but they can be minimized but just watching the guy in front and nobody trying to make wild passes in the first corner! In league racing, first lap passing isn't allowed alot of the time and first corner lap passing is rarely allowed! Also, I take exception to the word most, perhaps newer drivers is more appropriate. Try a race against original beta people and you might get a shock. Replays will be available shortly of the Pro_HCS series, if you want to see things the way they were meant to be,dload them. This problem is being addressed by Papyrus and their ranking system, dload the file and you will better understand why these bad drivers will eventually be forced to change their driving habits. Also the league administrators are now doing their own monitoring and guess what, there is a black list forming. And those constant abusers will not be allowed into Leagues, this is being done independant of Papyrus by other racers, for the benefit of clean racing. No names will be published but if you get turned down for participation then maybe your racing is a problem. Conversely, lists of clean racers are also being kept and you never know who is watching. Also behaviour is important, if you constantly swear and fight with everyone guess what! I watched an idiot the other night abuse a Papyrus employee, who was working late on a non work day(lately I think they live there) trying like hell to get the system back up. And had to take abuse worse than I could tolerate! I know, if it had been me, there would have been one less driver on the system. These are my own opinions, and in no way reflect Papyrus's view. Pete

Quoted text (27 lines)

>Subject: Re: HAWAII Is A Waste Of Time! >Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:03:52 -0700 >> First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron >> out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not >> worth the time. >> Secondly, after being taken out on the second lap in only my second race on >> Hawaii, I will no longer use the service. Another driver ran up behind me >> in turn one, even though I had the inside line all the way. He ran right >> into my right rear fender, deliberately sending me into the wall. I am an >> experienced racer who had qualified third in that race, so it wasn't an >> issue of ME not knowing how to drive, but an ugly incident which has turned >> me off of Hawaii for good. >> If you are thinking about getting involved witht he Hawaii multiplayer >> network, DON'T BOTHER. >> Kirn Cromur >Kirn, >It is a shame that you would let one incident turn you off to Hawaii. >Sure there are frustrating things that happen in some races, like the one >you speak of. But overall this multiplayer racing is great. I would >hope to see you on there sometime in the future. >Don >DonC - Hawaii racer

I know the feeling. My first race was a disaster. 2 incidents under green, 5 under yellow, all in a nine lap race.... I almost quit right then, but I called back a week later and LOVED it! Now I need a second job for my phone bill... :) You'll learn who NOT to get in a race with, and you'll find some people you can't WAIT to race against! (Tim Olsen, are you out there???<g>) Try it just once more... ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

with: Kirn -- There are a few things to do to avoid what you're talking about. A) AVOID TALLADEGA Every newbie automatically goes to 'Dega first. It's the easiest track, fastest track, and many users go there thinking they're kings of the draft. Talladega is not a good pickup race to join, IMHO -- if you want to race Dega, find a rating-limited event there. B) WATCH THE F4 INFORMATION IN THE RACE SCHEDULER If you see a bunch of 0 level drivers at a track, say at Michigan, with constant weather, no damage (or arcade), 5% length, and no yellows, then prepare yourself for some incidents. I'm not saying you shouldn't join -- you can raise your rating immensely by*** back, letting everyone else wreck, and being VERY careful while they're weaving all over the track. Once your rating goes up, then you won't have to be as selective. The more time you spend on Hawaii, the more "tells" you'll see on certain races. For example, a 10% race D/Y/P at Pocono is not likely to be a crashfest as much as a 5% Night A/ /P at Bristol, etc. C) FINISH YOUR RACES There are people who get wrecked (not blown engines or race-stopping events) who just quit the race altogether after an incident. This is partially due to hurt feelings, tempers, etc. However, the way to get your rating up is to FINISH THE RACE. It doesn't matter if you're 8 laps down -- if you finish your race, it counts towards a rating increase. The only way to escape the dreaded 0-level events is to get that rating up. D) BE PATIENT This is the hardest key of all. You have to race SMART. Don't race like you did the AI on your home races. You have to remember that there are 3-12 other screaming wannabes on the track with you at the same time. Everyone's bound to make mistakes, even you. The best way to avoid them is to give everyone LOTS of room. At the lower level races, finishing equals winning. When you get into the higher-level races with more professional drivers, then you can worry about strategy and stuff. But in the beginning pickup races, patience will save your butt. If you have to, pull to the back of the field on a pace lap or start to avoid the wrecks. Take this with whatever grain of salt you want. You may not agree with what I say, but I'm a level-four racer and I'm talking from painful experience. Hope this helps. _________________________________________ Tony Johns IWCCCARS Project Coordinator [link lost in import: /~iwcc/project.htm]

>Sorry, I have plenty of maturity. The problem lies in those who lack it. >Sure, I'd love to raise my rating, but how can I do that when EVERY race >begins with a mass-accident? How can I raise my rating when I can't even >start a lap because every car behind and in front of me is tangled in a >wreck which sweeps me into it? I'm not going to waste my long distance >phone bill on people who find pleasure in simply slamming into other cars. Here's what I did last night Talladega, damage on, 9 laps<?> Qualified around 19th out of 36 drivers. No pace lap At the drop of the green I hung a hard right turn and parked right in front of the pace car. Watched everybody drive by, listened to the crunches, picked up the gas and puttered around the 1st and 2nd turn carnage at around 50 MPH. Got up to speed, deftly avoided a couple other wrecks, and thanks to a last-lap gift by a couple other drivers, brought my unscratched car home in 5th place. It can be done. Patience is the key, and it's something a vast majority of Hawaii racers is sorely lacking. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Winston Cup 7 41 23 Busch South 9 34 47 NCTS 7 07 Busch North 47 44 34 15 Mod Tour 21 8 10A IRCA 93 39 96 Busch North & Modified Tour Home Pages at http://www.vgernet.net/aclaffie/ Real Racers Don't Race Talladega!

issue of ME............ but an ugly incident which has turned me off of >>>>>>> PREVIOUS TEXT ABRIDGED TO MAKE SOME SORT OF POINT <<<<<<< WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! You've probably a lot of expierece being a quitter. I have no idea how old you are but I assume that if you have race experience you must be at least 8 (Rookie Karting). A word of advice if you want to be successful...TRY MORE THAN TWICE!

> First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron > out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not > worth the time. What kind of latencies are you getting? Using a 28.8 modem connecting at 19200, I get an average of around .10. This results in a perfectly smooth game... I've had no problems hooking up to 3 or 4-car drafts and riding bumper-to-bumper lap after lap. Don't make the mistake of trying to set the baud rate too high. If you're going to take it this serious and get your panties in a wad every time someone wrecks you out, I agree...don't bother! Your absence will make it a better place. I've been wrecked out on the first lap and I've been wrecked out on the last lap. I've secured the lead and had the server drop the race completely! I've watched replays and would swear that someone deliberately took me out, then watch it from a different angle and realize it was just one of those "racin' things". But for every screw-up like that, I find some stranger on the track who asks to draft, and we hook up and turn some of our best laps ever... Or, the two leaders I've been chasing the whole race will get into it and I'll shoot into the lead... Or, I'll ride with a pack of leaders, lap after lap, without a single incident, and when the race is over there's a flood of "Great Racing!" and "Congratulations" messages. Until you've experienced this, you haven't experienced Hawaii! There's a lot of incompetence and hostility, but there's also a lot of camaraderie and friendship. There's not a person out there who's not a fellow racing fan...some just don't drive quite as well as others. Some people seem to think that the races on Hawaii are for money or fame... They think if their rating gets high enough, Rick Hendrick will come knocking at their door, or if it gets too low, they'll lose their sponsorship. Forget it - just play, have fun, and (to ref another poster) make lots of Newbieaid(tm)! Sean "sormond"

Better make that 'hung a hard LEFT turn' or next time I try that I'll cause much more trouble than I'd avoid ;) Sorry for any confusion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Winston Cup 7 41 23 Busch South 9 34 47 NCTS 7 07 Busch North 47 44 34 15 Mod Tour 21 8 10A IRCA 93 39 96 Busch North & Modified Tour Home Pages at http://www.vgernet.net/aclaffie/ Real Racers Don't Race Talladega!

On Tuesday, May 14, 1996, Michael Langston wrote...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Cromur) writes: > >>>>>>> PREVIOUS TEXT ABRIDGED TO MAKE SOME SORT OF POINT <<<<<<< > WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! You've probably a lot of expierece being > a quitter. I have no idea how old you are but I assume that if you > have race experience you must be at least 8 (Rookie Karting). > A word of advice if you want to be successful...TRY MORE THAN TWICE!

Very well put. I could'nt agree more. There are idiots, you just have to do your best to avoid them. I've had just over 20 races and have a skill of 6. I expect to be a 7 today after winning 4 of my last 5 races. Remember this, There is more to racing than just going fast..

Quoted text (7 lines)

>> First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE. Until Papyrus can iron >> out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not >> worth the time. > This is a recent problem, and is no way indicative of what it has been > over the last 7 months. The huge demand is obviously taking its toll! I think > you will recall, or perhaps you forgot to read the text files, that this

is in beta. > Perhaps, you should give Papyrus a chance to fix the problems. Yes, it is > annoying but suggesting it is not worth the time is showing a lack of maturity on > your part! If you like the game which I assume you do or you wouldn't be > playing it, the enjoyment factor is a ten fold improvement over > the computer AI in my humble opinion! Thanks, Pete, we're working on it. Indeed, demand has been higher than I'd imagined; prior to the open beta we were luckly to ever see more than 64 people online simultaneously, whereas for the past week I haven't seen *less* than that many people connected during prime time. The problems aren't new, they're just being flushed out with the heavy and constant load. Fortunately, we've trapped what I believe were the worst of the bunch, and with a bit of luck you guys will get to race with a full complement of servers till late in the evening, and I'll get to return to east coast time. Keep those cards and letters coming. Charlie Heath Papyrus Design Group

How the hell can you WIN that much?!? I've got 2 wins at Tally (only 4 cars in the first, was 3rd in the other when the leaders crashed). I can't seem to find the speed to even RUN with the leaders, let alone PASS them. :( Jeez, must be NICE. ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?