Hawaii racer to Avoid!!

Just had yet another bad experience at Talladega. Damn, if I didn't love that track so much I'd have quit racing there by now. Here's the situation: I'm running a close 3rd for the first few laps (within .3 sec of lead) then I get a little careless in tri-oval. I just entered it too late, and had to slow down a bit to avoid hitting the wall. I drop to about 1.2 sec off the lead and let 4th place car catch up with me. Somehow he ends up on my outside going into turn 3, so naturally I stay low and start going through the turn. By low I mean that I start my turn on the first dashed while line and slowly drift to just below the solid while line, a fairly typical racing line at Talladega. Never once did I cross to the right of the first dashed white line because I knew my opponent was there. Next thing I know, he is spinning (I never did feel or hear any contact and the replay was inclusive). Perhaps he thought I was going to go lower than I did and he came down, or it could have been one of those server glitches where a car jumps. Doesn't matter because either way it was not my fault. He responds with "Your Dead #21" (I was in the Citgo car). I just brush this off as I do all the usual threats and taunts I've gotten at Dega for wrecks that were not my fault (people have blatantly wrecked me and then had the nerve to blame me for it). Well he seemed to want some revenge. He lost a lot of time in the wreck, so in a few laps I catch up to lap him. He is ahead of me as we exit the tri-oval and a little slower. He stays in the middle of the track and when I go to the outside, he also goes to the outside to cut me off! I quickly cut back to pass him low and (you guessed it) he cut low and I rammed right into the back of him causing damage (including a bent hood). All of this occurring while I'm 1 sec of the lead in 3rd place with 7 laps to go. I ended up limping in for a 10th place finish. Now for the information you've all been waiting for, his UserName was Rsty96. "Can't we all just get along?" -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

He lost a lot of time in the wreck, so in a few laps I catch up to lap

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>him. He is ahead of me as we exit the tri-oval and a little slower. He stays in >the middle of the track and when I go to the outside, he also goes to the outside >to cut me off! I quickly cut back to pass him low and (you guessed it) he cut >low and I rammed right into the back of him causing damage (including a bent >hood). All of this occurring while I'm 1 sec of the lead in 3rd place with 7 >laps to go. I ended up limping in for a 10th place finish. >Now for the information you've all been waiting for, his UserName was Rsty96. >"Can't we all just get along?" >-- >Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences >Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ >Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

Sounds like he was just trying to block -- J Mark Piscitelli *******The subject of the above message is subject to subjection********

> Sounds like he was just trying to block Yes how could have been trying to block, but you don't block when you're about to go a lap down and a good 20 mph slower. At that point you just accept the lost lap and get out of the way of the leaders. Also note that he had earlier said "You're Dead #21". I think that alone is reason enough to assume he was not trying to just slow me down by blocking, but take me out of the race. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

Gee, Feels like I'm back in kindegarten the Stewart the Rat telling on everyone. "Mrs. Jones, Bobby fingerpainted the blackboard." I feel for you, but do you have to run out here and tell everyone about it. I'm sure that you and your 5 rating are doing fine and will continue to do so, but please leave this childish behavior behind. Thanks, Chris

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>Just had yet another bad experience at Talladega. Damn, if I didn't love that >track so much I'd have quit racing there by now. Here's the situation: >mindless drible left out< >Now for the information you've all been waiting for, his UserName was Rsty96. >"Can't we all just get along?" >-- >Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences >Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ >Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

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>Subject: Re: Hawaii racer to Avoid!! >Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 13:23:00 GMT >Gee, >Feels like I'm back in kindegarten the Stewart the Rat telling on >everyone. "Mrs. Jones, Bobby fingerpainted the blackboard." >I feel for you, but do you have to run out here and tell everyone >about it. I'm sure that you and your 5 rating are doing fine and will >continue to do so, but please leave this childish behavior behind.

What, you don't want to know which people are likely to***up your race on purpose? I, for one, am glad for the warning. >Thanks, >Chris >>Just had yet another bad experience at Talladega. Damn, if I didn't love that >>track so much I'd have quit racing there by now. Here's the situation: >>mindless drible left out< Boy, THAT was nice. You have something PERSONAL against Eric?

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>>Now for the information you've all been waiting for, his UserName was Rsty96. >>"Can't we all just get along?" >>-- >>Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences >>Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ >>Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

> Feels like I'm back in kindergarten the Stewart the Rat telling on > everyone. "Mrs. Jones, Bobby fingerpainted the blackboard." Well the only childish behavior I see is the driver who vows to take revenge for an incident I did not cause. He then carefully enacts his revenge a few laps later by taking me out of the race. I admit if someone takes me out, I'll *** about it if it was deliberate or just plain stupid racing. Sometimes though, incidents just happen and no one is to blame. I've seen cars warp from behind me to 5 car lengths in front of me. I've also seen cars jump back and forth from side to side making it impossible to attempt to pass. I'm sorry, but for the money we are now paying to race (about 6 dollars an hour) no one deserves to be taken out of a race on purpose. I felt it justifiable to warn others here who do not want to waste their money limping around the track with a damaged wheel and hood. If he did this to me when the incident we were involved in was in no way my fault, what will he do if someone does cut him off or tap him from behind? Behavior like this has no place on the network. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

> >>mindless dribble left out< > Boy, THAT was nice. You have something PERSONAL against Eric? Why not? It seems like everyone else does, so what's one more? =) -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

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> > Sounds like he was just trying to block > Yes how could have been trying to block, but you don't block when > you're about to go a lap down and a good 20 mph slower. At that point > you just accept the lost lap and get out of the way of the leaders. > Also note that he had earlier said "You're Dead #21". I think that > alone is reason enough to assume he was not trying to just slow me down > by blocking, but take me out of the race. > -- > Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences > Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ > Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

This brings up a question. Does Papyrus moniter the conversations during practice and racing. Seems like you could put comments like "Take me out on the pace lap" and "You're dead #21" together with accidents to remove certain drivers from the service completely. David Martin IVL Series Director hawaii dgm26sam (2)

No, more like Bobby intentionally wiped me out of something that I'm spending some serious long distance charges to participate in. I want to know who's playing destruction derby while I'm trying to race NASCAR. I've got a 5 rating too and I didn't get it by playing crash cars. Bill aka BillyJoe -------------------------------------------------------------- Centrimedia web development http://www.centrimedia.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------

>What, you don't want to know which people are likely to***up your race on >purpose? I, for one, am glad for the warning. In some ways yes, some ways no. Everyone knows that Geoff Bodine, John Andretti, or in days past, Jimmy Spencer would/could take someone out, but they still have to race agains them. Nope, nothing at all, just that he went to great detail to explain that Rsty96 took him out intentianally. >Eldred Pickett >I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!? Chris

Maybe from his vantage point your car warped up into his and he had a legitamate complaint that you wrecked him??? Who knows what happened, but it did and you should just continue on and race, and not worry about who did what intentionally. In the end, all will even out. Well, let's see, delete the .cfg file, come back online as a new person and do it all over again. There is now way you can prevent him from doing as he has done. Let's just race hard, and may the best man win each race. >-- >Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences >Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ >Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5) Chris

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> He lost a lot of time in the wreck, so in a few laps I catch up to lap > >him. He is ahead of me as we exit the tri-oval and a little slower. He stays in > >the middle of the track and when I go to the outside, he also goes to the outside > >to cut me off! I quickly cut back to pass him low and (you guessed it) he cut > >low and I rammed right into the back of him causing damage (including a bent > >hood). All of this occurring while I'm 1 sec of the lead in 3rd place with 7 > >laps to go. I ended up limping in for a 10th place finish. > >Now for the information you've all been waiting for, his UserName was Rsty96. > >"Can't we all just get along?" > >-- > >Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences > >Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ > >Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5) > Sounds like he was just trying to block > -- > J Mark Piscitelli > *******The subject of the above message is subject to subjection********

In the above case there is no excuse for blocking. If you are running slowly, a lap or two down, there is no reason to hold someone up. Its common courtesy and common sense to move out of the groove and allow the faster player through. Isn't that what you would want if you were the faster car?.

writes Knowing what you knew, surely the wise thing to do is sit behind him, take the points/ratings for third and chalk it up to experience? It was obvious what was going to happen if you tried to pass him, that's what he wanted. Still definitely his fault, and a real stupid thing to do, but you did give him his chance....? Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://www.dcn.ed.ac.uk/pulse/index.htm \::/ \._______\

> Knowing what you knew, surely the wise thing to do is sit behind him, > take the points/ratings for third and chalk it up to experience? It was > obvious what was going to happen if you tried to pass him, that's what > he wanted. Well I couldn't really do that because we still had 6 or 8 laps left and I had a very good shot at taking over the lead on the next lap because the leaders also had to alter their lines to avoid him (he was in the middle of the track and they both split around him). If I had slowed to stay behind him I would have surely lost at the very least 5 positions to racers behind me because he was a good 20 mph slower and looked to be braking to a stop when I rear-ended him. Basically I had no choice but to go for the pass. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

Rsty96 was bounced out in front of 30 chat members to about this post tonite. Must have been very embarrasing. he said he was a clean racer and i told him what you said and told him to go read it.. two or three had read it and gave him hell. He shut up and said no more, so this type pub. works apparantly and before long i am going to name some cheats also like R........24B. This one takes you out on the last lap if you are passing him. Can't stand to lose.

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>Now for the information you've all been waiting for, his UserName was Rsty96. >"Can't we all just get along?" >-- >Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences >Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ >Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

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>Subject: Re: Hawaii racer to Avoid!! >Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 16:50:11 GMT >>What, you don't want to know which people are likely to***up your race on >>purpose? I, for one, am glad for the warning. >In some ways yes, some ways no. Everyone knows that Geoff Bodine, >John Andretti, or in days past, Jimmy Spencer would/could take someone >out, but they still have to race agains them.

Yep, they HAVE to. WE can avoid troublemakers, if we know who they are... ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

Sounds to me like either 1. you're jealous you don't have a 5 rating 2. you're one of those out to wreck people 3. all of the above 4. just looking for a fight Go #6 Mark Martin,#16 Ted Musgrave & #99 Jeff Burton - Jack Roush Racing!! NASCAR Racing!! http://camalott.com/~sean/nascar/nascar.htm <--NASCAR Racing Sim page

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> Rsty96 was bounced out in front of 30 chat members to about this post > tonite. Must have been very embarrassing. he said he was a clean > racer and i told him what you said and told him to go read it.. two > or three had read it and gave him hell. He shut up and said no more, > so this type pub. works apparently and before long i am going to name > some cheats also like R........24B. This one takes you out on the last > lap if you are passing him. Can't stand to lose.

Well that was exactly what I had hoped this would accomplish, to have him be confronted with what he did (he left the chat before I could do it myself after the race). Sounds like he had little to defend himself with, and hopefully he has learned his lesson. Perhaps he will become a better and more clean racer as a result... Or, he can turn into yet another driver going for the price on my head =) -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

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>Subject: Re: Hawaii racer to Avoid!! >Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 04:19:44 GMT >>Just had yet another bad experience at Talladega. Damn, if I didn't love that >>track so much I'd have quit racing there by now. Here's the situation: >Rsty96 was bounced out in front of 30 chat members to about this post >tonite. Must have been very embarrasing. he said he was a clean >racer and i told him what you said and told him to go read it.. two >or three had read it and gave him hell. He shut up and said no more, >so this type pub. works apparantly and before long i am going to name >some cheats also like R........24B. This one takes you out on the last >lap if you are passing him. Can't stand to lose.

Cool. Maybe the ones I mentioned will have to clean up their act as well... ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

writes Well, I would argue that you had more than "no choice". Try a pass knowing you'd be punted into the wall and maybe out the race, or sit back and lose a few places "ain't no choice at all" as Mr. White would say. As it was you lost a lot more than 5 positions, so which was the right decision? Yes, the guy was a total ***, but you knew that and need to take account of every s***of information available to you while racing. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://www.dcn.ed.ac.uk/pulse/index.htm \::/ \._______\

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> writes > >Well I couldn't really do that because we still had 6 or 8 laps left and I had a > >very > As it was you lost a lot more than 5 positions, so which was the right > decision? Yes, the guy was a total ***, but you knew that and need > to take account of every s***of information available to you while > racing.

But, if you choose not to pass, then you can't report him as a troublemaker. Eric made the best choice. He got the proof he needed to justify a complaint. I bet Rsty96 would probably have laughed his head off if Eric had driven around for the rest of the race and never attempted to pass him. You can't let these people control a race. At least by getting into an accident with them, no one else will have to worry about them. Unfortunately, as is the case many times, the innocent drivers end up with a damaged engine and the troublemakers continue on with a damaged wheel. Sounds so much like what happens when a drunk driver hits someone on the road. Too many times it's the drunk driver that walks away. David Martin IVL Series Director dgm26sam

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> Rsty96 was bounced out in front of 30 chat members to about this post > tonite. Must have been very embarrasing. he said he was a clean > racer and i told him what you said and told him to go read it.. two > or three had read it and gave him hell. He shut up and said no more, > so this type pub. works apparantly and before long i am going to name > some cheats also like R........24B. This one takes you out on the last > lap if you are passing him. Can't stand to lose.

Joe, I was there when this happened! The thing that dumbstruck me, was when he admitted he did in fact take him out in retribution for an incident on a previous lap! I had a run in with him as well, a few days ago, in which he ripped my face off for passing in the tri-oval in the last lap, against someone he had just tried to run off the track on the back straight. He instead lost control of his car, and I passed him to finish against Bonhom28. I went low on Bonhom in the tri and we touched just before start finish, I realise this was aggressive on my part but it is something that all of the older beta people will do on the last corner before finish at tally. I have had it happen many times to me, and dont consider 2nd place bad in a 30+ field. We went across one, two, and he came in a close 3rd. I apologized to Bonhom for the move and he wasnt upset! But our friend was! Were upon Bonhom indicated that he found my move acceptable and his driving unacceptable! He then said we were both )(*&(*&) in chat a few more reminded him of previous incidents involving him and indcated he was the only good driver in the race and he left! Not that i'm perfect or have never made mistakes, but a bad attitude and bad driving dont mix. I know we all have bad days and***up but hopefully we learn from our mistakes. I raced an individual last night who has been flamed recently and was nervous when he started behind me. I thought the worst, as I had been rammed by him before but for some reason he displayed none of his previous behaviour. In fact I had no incidents at all, not sure if he has changed for the better, or he was just having a bad day the first few times I raced him! Conversely, if someone has a problem with me, please feel free to critique. I ended up in an accident the other night with AWhite in the 3rd corner last lap, when a lapper didnt hold his line and crashed into me as I was passing him. Tires blew, I spun out of control, and went up the banking and took AWhite out as well. He was really upset with me, he didnt realize i had been hit he thought i had tried a wild pass. We both ended up down in the standings and I felt bad because of it. After he cooled down I explained what had happened, he said he was sorry for spouting off. I complimented on his good driving(which it was was) and said I was sorry wasnt able to keep from sliding up into him. Story over, I would race with him anytime! Pete

. Eric, how much is being offered! I may be able to defray the phone bills if someone will pay me enough! :-) Just kidding! Pete

>Yep, they HAVE to. WE can avoid troublemakers, if we know who they are... Ok what if some clown gets pissed at you because you made a clean pass on them to win a race and decides to post your hawaii handle on r.a.s. as a dirty racer, just cause he's a bad loser. This public finger pointing wont work in the long run. My advice if your worried about your rating is finish all your races and avoid 0-15 Taladega races like the plague. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MP Scurvydog #00 Simpson-Cowlings Motorsports http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~scurvydog/index.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>> > Sounds like he was just trying to block >> Yes how could have been trying to block, but you don't block when >> you're about to go a lap down and a good 20 mph slower. At that point >> you just accept the lost lap and get out of the way of the leaders. >> Also note that he had earlier said "You're Dead #21". I think that >> alone is reason enough to assume he was not trying to just slow me down

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>> by blocking, but take me out of the race. >> -- >> Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences >> Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/ >> Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5) >This brings up a question. Does Papyrus moniter the conversations >during practice and racing. Seems like you could put comments like >"Take me out on the pace lap" and "You're dead #21" together with >accidents to remove certain drivers from the service completely. >David Martin >IVL Series Director >hawaii dgm26sam (2)

Nice idea, but all they would have to do is log on under a different name. Now if there was s serial number imbedded into the game...... Mike

I don't mind people posting the the names of "troublemakers". We'll know who to avoid! Racing at Dega Thurday night. Currently running 3rd, I got to the inside of someone in turn 1. He decided to drop low anyway, taking him and myself to the inside wall. Turned out he was a rookie, skill 0. I was pissed, but hey, rookie mistake. I can live with that. Hell, I made this mistake the first few time racing myself. But when you get taken out this way by a seasoned racer who should know better, it's a different story. I've been taken out too many times by people who are trying to win the race in the first few laps. If you see in your mirror that someones along side, HOLD YOUR LINE! You'll get another chance. Unless of course, it's the final lap. Don Turcotte DonT

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> But, if you choose not to pass, then you can't report him as a troublemaker. Eric made the best choice. He > got the proof he needed to justify a complaint. I bet Rsty96 would probably have laughed his head off if > Eric had driven around for the rest of the race and never attempted to pass him. You can't let these people > control a race. At least by getting into an accident with them, no one else will have to worry about them. > Unfortunately, as is the case many times, the innocent drivers end up with a damaged engine and the > troublemakers continue on with a damaged wheel. Sounds so much like what happens when a drunk driver hits > someone on the road. Too many times it's the drunk driver that walks away.

David, I had a long chat last night with some of the problem drivers(after a massive fight) and decided to tell them I was submitting the race to League Admins(which is what I have been asked to do). After indicating that as a result of their actions they most likely would not be asked to participate in these leagues, the tone changed signifigantly! I think we may now have 4 or 5 drivers that were causing problems acting somewhat more rationally! In fact I raced with them in the next Tally that was posted, it was a great race! One minor incident, they both agreed they were equally at fault! What a change! Instead of swearing and cursing, they asked about lines, drafting hints, setups etc. There is hope! Hate to play traffic cop but the results were most enjoyable! Pete

writes: >> Rsty96 was bounced out in front of 30 chat members to about this post >> tonite. Must have been very embarrasing. he said he was a clean >> racer and i told him what you said and told him to go read it.. two >> or three had read it and gave him hell. He shut up and said no more, >> so this type pub. works apparantly and before long i am going to name >> some cheats also like R........24B. This one takes you out on the last >> lap if you are passing him. Can't stand to lose. More info on this Rsty96...I saw last night, he is from Boston. Suprised? Now we know he is not paying for his calls to crash everyone. Mike

> More info on this Rsty96...I saw last night, he is from Boston. > Suprised? Now we know he is not paying for his calls to crash everyone. Mike, I had a talk with him the other night after an arguement broke out, there were 3 or 4 people involved. I was in the race, and these guys were behind me so I didnt witness all that took place, as they replay only showed parts of it. After, a discussion on behaviour and driving,:-) a marked improvement occurred in the next race! I hope they have decided to run the whey they did in the second race as it was the difference of night and day! But I may miss(play on words) having to snake through the parking lot in the tri-oval. They did exibit that they could run clean and talk civilly afterwards. There is hope for some! Pete

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>Subject: Re: Hawaii racer to Avoid!! >Date: 13 May 1996 14:14:55 GMT >writes: >>> Rsty96 was bounced out in front of 30 chat members to about this >post >>> tonite. Must have been very embarrasing. he said he was a clean >>> racer and i told him what you said and told him to go read it.. two >>> or three had read it and gave him hell. He shut up and said no >more, >>> so this type pub. works apparantly and before long i am going to >name >>> some cheats also like R........24B. This one takes you out on the >last >>> lap if you are passing him. Can't stand to lose. >More info on this Rsty96...I saw last night, he is from Boston. >Suprised? Now we know he is not paying for his calls to crash everyone. >Mike

Somebody speculated that about some of the 'crashers', but nothing came out...until now :) ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?