Why so much praise over RBR?

No menu mouse support Average graphics Half-baked cockpit view Poor performance Bug Ridden Steering lag

"cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > No menu mouse support > Average graphics > Half-baked cockpit view > Poor performance > Bug Ridden > Steering lag Graphics are good enough to capture the imagination, if you have time to look around (and inside the car) you aren't trying hard enough ;-) Performance is fine on a relatively recent spec PC, it's a damn sight more stable than any other off the shelf title I've bought recently, and I have no idea what you mean by steering lag, unless you are talking about understeer. For me the menu system is plain irritating & I don't think much of the replay system either, but all this and more is more than compensated for by the driving experience imo. It's far from a perfect game, but it's a great rally sim. Malc.

"cronik" wrote... > No menu mouse support no joystick support either... which is good. > Average graphics Yet still managing to make CMR05 look garish and artificial > Half-baked cockpit view apart from the viewpoint not being adjustable in-game, it's fucntional enough. > Poor performance Not an issue, anything that will run F1C and NR2003 will also run RBR, but I have to admit I would have liked to be able to tweak more parameters. > Bug Ridden Eh? -Haven't encountered a bug yet. > Steering lag not enough PC horsepower for the settings you're running. If I crank it up to 1024x768x32 with all the bells and whistles on, it lags for me too, so I use less eyecandy. You did forget to mention the loading times for the stages (takes ages, regardless of lenght) and the annoying fact you can't quit directly to main menu if you need to leave the game in a hurry (to access other stuff on your PC) while on a stage. Jan. =---

no joystick support either... which is good. Yet still managing to make CMR05 look garish and artificial apart from the viewpoint not being adjustable in-game, it's fucntional enough. Not an issue, anything that will run F1C and NR2003 will also run RBR, but I have to admit I would have liked to be able to tweak more parameters. Eh? -Haven't encountered a bug yet. not enough PC horsepower for the settings you're running. If I crank it up to 1024x768x32 with all the bells and whistles on, it lags for me too, so I use less eyecandy. You did forget to mention the loading times for the stages (takes ages, regardless of lenght) and the annoying fact you can't quit directly to main menu if you need to leave the game in a hurry (to access other stuff on your PC) while on a stage. Jan. =---

> No menu mouse support- since when is the menu the biggest concern in a game? > Average graphics- maybe your system just isn't up to the task? The graphics look amazing in my opinion. Realistic colours, no overdone lens and sun flares or plastic looking cars with too much reflection. > Half-baked cockpit view- If you are worried about the position of the view, there are .ini files that you can modify to your liking. Move the view up, change the FOV, etc. If it is the graphics you are worried about in the cockpit view then I call that a bad citicism.. look OUT the window :) > Poor performance- again, maybe your system isn't up to the task? Runs great over here... > Bug Ridden- Personally the only bug that has pissed me off so far is the no-wheel-turn-in-replay bug. i know there are some others, but I have yet to be hit by any of them. Obviously a patch will be coming.. > Steering lag- once again, maybe your system isn't up to the task? If you're running it at a shitty framerate, then there's going to be some lag. But with my USB wheel and pedals I get absolutely no lag.. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com

> You did forget to mention the loading times for the stages (takes ages, > regardless of lenght) and the annoying fact you can't quit directly to > main Hmmm.. odd, it takes like 10 seconds to load stages over here. 1024ram.. maybe that's the difference? One of my complements for the game is the fact that stages load up so quickly!

cronik wrote:

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> > No menu mouse support > Average graphics > Half-baked cockpit view > Poor performance > Bug Ridden > Steering lag

because not everyone has your issues with it? the graphics look phenomenal to me, it runs smoothly on my cheap-ish system with a bottom of the range video card, and steers better than any game I've played before. the bugs and menu system are annoying, the cockpit view doesn't bother me, there are mods out there to fix it if you want. Charlie

Get a new rig <g> EL "cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > No menu mouse support > Average graphics > Half-baked cockpit view > Poor performance > Bug Ridden > Steering lag

"Mike Beauchamp" wrote... >> <snip> > Hmmm.. odd, it takes like 10 seconds to load stages over here. > 1024ram.. maybe that's the difference? One of my complements for the game > is the fact that stages load up so quickly! 512MB of RAM here and stages take minutes to load from disk when first attempting them in any mode. When "restarting" stages in the quick rally or Richard Burns Challange mode things move a lot quicker (cached in RAM, probably). Admittently, RBR rests on a 4200rpm 40GB IDE drive in my config, but I still think it's a bit excessive. Jan, =---

Jan Verschueren wrote: > >>Bug Ridden > > > Eh? -Haven't encountered a bug yet. two for me. no force feedback, and no turning front wheels. both seem to affect quite a few people. > You did forget to mention the loading times for the stages (takes ages, > regardless of lenght) fairly fast for me. 10 seconds or so. > and the annoying fact you can't quit directly to main > menu if you need to leave the game in a hurry (to access other stuff on your > PC) while on a stage. ALT+F4 does that. just remember to save first. -- am

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> 512MB of RAM here and stages take minutes to load from disk when first > attempting them in any mode. When "restarting" stages in the quick rally or > Richard Burns Challange mode things move a lot quicker (cached in RAM, > probably). > > Admittently, RBR rests on a 4200rpm 40GB IDE drive in my config, but I still > think it's a bit excessive.

512mb ram here and a standard 80gb hd, stage loading times are not a noticeable problem... I'd be surprised if if was 10 seconds. I wonder if somethings wrong on your system... is dma enabled on that drive? Charlie

Isnt a 4200 RPM drive out of a laptop which have notoriously slow controllers/HD anyway? Hardly typical regardless. Mitch "Charlie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Jan Verschueren wrote: > >> 512MB of RAM here and stages take minutes to load from disk when first >> attempting them in any mode. When "restarting" stages in the quick rally >> or >> Richard Burns Challange mode things move a lot quicker (cached in RAM, >> probably). >> >> Admittently, RBR rests on a 4200rpm 40GB IDE drive in my config, but I >> still >> think it's a bit excessive. > > 512mb ram here and a standard 80gb hd, stage loading times are not a > noticeable problem... I'd be surprised if if was 10 seconds. I wonder > if somethings wrong on your system... is dma enabled on that drive? > > Charlie

Loading times are less than 5 sec here. To the OP who has a long load, check your system. > 512mb ram here and a standard 80gb hd, stage loading times are not a > noticeable problem... I'd be surprised if if was 10 seconds. I wonder > if somethings wrong on your system... is dma enabled on that drive? > > Charlie

Something's wrong there. It takes about 5-6 seconds to load each stage from disk, and about 4-5 seconds from cache (memory) on further runes. This is on 15,000 RPM SCSI disks in a RAID array with an adaptec SCSI RAID Controller with 128MB cache (all from a server I found in a skip :-) I've also got some 7200RPM ATA drives installed in my system, and find that the SCSI disk array is only about 20-30% faster in real world terms when doing sequential reads like load a stage (though i/o performance is phenomenal). As such, I would expect RBR to take no longer than about 8 seconds to load a stage from disk on the ATA drive. Have you considered defragging your HD? Are you sure that your ATA/IDE driver is configured for BUS mastering? Tim "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1095809618.OcgkPIfY6wmgTqp6jfoLUA@teranews...

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> "Mike Beauchamp" wrote... >>> <snip> >> Hmmm.. odd, it takes like 10 seconds to load stages over here. >> 1024ram.. maybe that's the difference? One of my complements for the >> game >> is the fact that stages load up so quickly! > > 512MB of RAM here and stages take minutes to load from disk when first > attempting them in any mode. When "restarting" stages in the quick rally > or Richard Burns Challange mode things move a lot quicker (cached in RAM, > probably). > > Admittently, RBR rests on a 4200rpm 40GB IDE drive in my config, but I > still think it's a bit excessive. > > Jan, > =--- > > > > >

> Loading times are less than 5 sec here. To the OP who has a long load, > check your system. > >> 512mb ram here and a standard 80gb hd, stage loading times are not a >> noticeable problem... I'd be surprised if if was 10 seconds. I wonder >> if somethings wrong on your system... is dma enabled on that drive? Yes, load times are less than 5 secs for me too...Seagate Barracuda 120GB 7200rpm. Pretty good considering how many tree textures etc there are.

"cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If you want the most realistic race simulator around get Toca Race > Driver 2, this hands down beats the pants off everything else out > there. > > You won't be dissapointed!! ^^ That was something posted by 'cronik' a few months ago... http://www.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=4765eb5e.0405221519.21a9d240%40posting.google.com Should explain this thread...

For slooow load times... IL-2 leaves RBR in an Arctic snow bank... No problems here with RBR.. P 2.6 768MB 264 Video Card........ Still waiting for IL- 2 to load.... 20%.... Loading Humans.... 65%....

"Arne Martin G�ettler" wrote... >> <snip> > two for me. no force feedback, and no turning front > wheels. both seem to affect quite a few people. Ok, I forgot about the front wheels not turning... hardly a showstopper though, is it? >> <snip> > fairly fast for me. 10 seconds or so. doing a thorough disk check/defrag as I type. >> <snip> > ALT+F4 does that. just remember to save first. Hadn't tried that. Thanks for the tip! Jan. =---

"Timmy Ferrell" wrote...

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> For slooow load times... > IL-2 leaves RBR in an Arctic snow bank... > No problems here with RBR.. > P 2.6 > 768MB > 264 Video Card........ > > Still waiting for IL- 2 to load.... > 20%.... > Loading Humans.... 65%....

Ok, now I'm confused. IL-2 demo was "ok" on that very same HD. But that was under Win98se, I'm now using XP Home sp2. Jan. =---

Ok, I forgot about the front wheels not turning... hardly a showstopper though, is it? doing a thorough disk check/defrag as I type. Hadn't tried that. Thanks for the tip! Jan. =---

"Charlie" wrote... > Jan Verschueren wrote: >> <snip> > 512mb ram here and a standard 80gb hd, stage loading times > are not a noticeable problem... I'd be surprised if if was > 10 seconds. I wonder if somethings wrong on your system... > is dma enabled on that drive? Yep... I have no explanation for why load times are the way they are over here, but it's good to know mine is not a general problem. Jan. =---

In article <4150a47d$0$69728$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Malc) wrote: > It's far from a perfect game, but it's a great rally sim. That's it in the proverbial nutshell. Andrew McP

Oh shit that is funny... that is like saying "I've had sex 15 times each year! and never got pregnant; admittedly, I'm a man.." Jan Verschueren enlightened us with: > Admittently, RBR rests on a 4200rpm 40GB IDE drive in my config, but > I still think it's a bit excessive. > > Jan, > =---

LMAO "If you want the most realistic race simulator around get Toca Race Driver 2, this hands down beats the pants off everything else out there." OK who's next? EL "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > If you want the most realistic race simulator around get Toca Race > > Driver 2, this hands down beats the pants off everything else out > > there. > > > > You won't be dissapointed!! > > ^^ > That was something posted by 'cronik' a few months ago... > >

http://www.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=4765eb5e.0405221519.21a9d240%40posting.google.com > > Should explain this thread... > >

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in

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> You did forget to mention the loading times for the stages (takes > ages, regardless of lenght) and the annoying fact you can't quit > directly to main menu if you need to leave the game in a hurry (to > access other stuff on your PC) while on a stage. > > Jan. > =--- > >

RBR doesn't get upset if you ctrl-alt-del and kill it from task menu. Loads up next time without any grumbles. That's what I do when I want to shut it down in a hurry (and not, for example, when I've just piled the Pug into another pile of logs, honest.) cheers John

EL wrote:

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> LMAO > > "If you want the most realistic race simulator around get Toca Race > Driver 2, this hands down beats the pants off everything else out > there." > > OK who's next? > > EL

It ain't no GPL? <g> -- Achim http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

Well spotted, TRD2 was OK but had many of the problems Cronk describes over RBR, even after two patches and now Codies have put it to rest, there'll be no more support for that I bet. Andi. -- Remove only one zero to reply "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > If you want the most realistic race simulator around get Toca Race > > Driver 2, this hands down beats the pants off everything else out > > there. > > > > You won't be dissapointed!! > > ^^ > That was something posted by 'cronik' a few months ago... > > http://www.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=4765eb5e.0405221519.21a9d240%40posting.google.com > > Should explain this thread... > >

So who's going say that RBR is! I suspect we'll have to wait five years or so and then answer that one, guesses anyone? Andi. -- Remove only one zero to reply "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > EL wrote: > > LMAO > > > > "If you want the most realistic race simulator around get Toca Race > > Driver 2, this hands down beats the pants off everything else out > > there." > > > > OK who's next? > > > > EL > > It ain't no GPL? <g> > > -- > Achim > http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

Nice one Cronk, ever felt lonely? Andi. -- Remove only one zero to reply "cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > No menu mouse support > Average graphics > Half-baked cockpit view > Poor performance > Bug Ridden > Steering lag

"Andi Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4151c099$0$80628$[email hidden]... > So who's going say that RBR is! I suspect we'll have to wait fiveyears or > so and then answer that one, guesses anyone? It's no gpl. Gimme a rwd mid-engined 400hp lightweight car, multiplayer, a decent replay system for modding & the 'Ring and I'll think about it. Malc.

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> "Arne Martin G�ettler" wrote... > >>><snip> >> >>two for me. no force feedback, and no turning front >>wheels. both seem to affect quite a few people. > > > Ok, I forgot about the front wheels not turning... hardly a showstopper > though, is it?

no, not at all! would have liked to have force feedback though. amazingly stable as well, hasn't crashed a single time for me yet! only me doing the crashing :) -- am

"Plowboy2" wrote... > Oh shit that is funny... > > that is like saying "I've had sex 15 times each year! > and never got pregnant; admittedly, I'm a man.." Other posters are claiming "1st time stage loading"-performances of over 15 to 20 times faster than mine. Hard disk performance has improved with regard to the ATA100 standard my aging Seagate drive uses these past few years, but not by that much. Jan. =---

> Other posters are claiming "1st time stage loading"-performances of over > 15 to 20 times faster than mine. Hard disk performance has improved with > regard to the ATA100 standard my aging Seagate drive uses these past few > years, but not by that much. It only takes me a few seconds - maybe 10 max to load the stages and my hard drive is 4 years old

"Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<4151c60b$0$42218$[email hidden]>...

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> "Andi Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4151c099$0$80628$[email hidden]... > > So who's going say that RBR is! I suspect we'll have to wait five > years or > > so and then answer that one, guesses anyone? > > It's no gpl. Gimme a rwd mid-engined 400hp lightweight car, multiplayer, > a decent replay system for modding & the 'Ring and I'll think about it. > > Malc.

Hey - someone got the 'Ring into Rally Trophy, so who knows ;). Add a Lancia Stratos and you're almost there. I hope RBR can be modded, or they at least make some expansion packs. It'd be really cool to see RT's cars get made for RBR. Kendt

Grand Prix Legends is by far the most realistic driving sim available just now

"RockyRob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Grand Prix Legends is by far the most realistic driving sim available justnow Nah, I never liked the wheels in that game.

Byron Forbes enlightened us with: > "RockyRob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> Grand Prix Legends is by far the most realistic driving sim >> available just now > > Nah, I never liked the wheels in that game. I would dare ask, what do ya mean you dont like the wheels? you dont like the looks of the wheels? you know there are bunches of gfx fixes you can download? Heck try getting that GPL 04 demo... No I cant remember the link or the actuall filename, I will chck at home because I have it there... Help guys, what is the link to that DEMO of the GPL that has updated skins and stuff?

"Plowboy2" <stingre.removethis_@yahoo!.removeit> wrote in message news:FQB4d.333558$Oi.317698@fed1read04...

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> > Byron Forbes enlightened us with: > > "RockyRob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > >> Grand Prix Legends is by far the most realistic driving sim > >> available just now > > > > Nah, I never liked the wheels in that game. > > I would dare ask, what do ya mean you dont like the wheels? you dont like > the looks of the wheels? you know there are bunches of gfx fixes you can > download? > > Heck try getting that GPL 04 demo... No I cant remember the link or the > actuall filename, I will chck at home because I have it there... > > Help guys, what is the link to that DEMO of the GPL that has updated skins > and stuff? > >

I just always got the feeling that those wheels were a little out of round - you know, a little oval. Clearly a huge error in the physics!

No online worth mentioning either, unfortunately. cronik <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > No menu mouse support > Average graphics > Half-baked cockpit view > Poor performance > Bug Ridden > Steering lag

"JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GKn5d.80$[email hidden]... > No online worth mentioning either, unfortunately. It's a rally sim, not track racing. I don't think anyone was seriously expecting a rally sim to have multiplayer, so it's not really a con. It does leave a potential gap in the market though. Malc.

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> cronik <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > No menu mouse support > > Average graphics > > Half-baked cockpit view > > Poor performance > > Bug Ridden > > Steering lag > >

Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:41560b5e$0$82270$[email hidden]...

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> "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GKn5d.80$[email hidden]... > > No online worth mentioning either, unfortunately. > > It's a rally sim, not track racing. I don't think anyone was seriously > expecting a rally sim to have multiplayer, so it's not really a con. It > does leave a potential gap in the market though. > > Malc.

This day and age, no reason for any game not to have solid mp.

"JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zgo5d.85$[email hidden]...

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> Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:41560b5e$0$82270$[email hidden]... > > "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:GKn5d.80$[email hidden]... > > > No online worth mentioning either, unfortunately. > > > > It's a rally sim, not track racing. > This day and age, no reason for any game not to have solid mp.

Two good reasons spring to mind: 1. The nature of rallying does not lend itself particularly to online gaming, and 2. RBR is essentially a port from a console title, consider the PC community lucky to have it at all and that it's as good as it is. There's also the minor matter of how difficult it clearly is to do multiplayer well. Papy titles have their collision boxes, EA titles have their bandwidth & freezing problems etc. The problems have all but been eradicated but /decent/ multiplayer is certainly not the norm yet. Given the choice of good physics or online gaming, I'd take the physics every time. Both would be good of course, but the physics are essential to a good simulation, multiplayer is not in this specific case. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for online racing, I just don't think rbr is any less of a sim for not having it considering the nature of the sport it simulates. Malc.

Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:41561519$0$17918$[email hidden]...

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> "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zgo5d.85$[email hidden]... > > Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:41560b5e$0$82270$[email hidden]... > > > "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:GKn5d.80$[email hidden]... > > > > No online worth mentioning either, unfortunately. > > > > > > It's a rally sim, not track racing. > > > This day and age, no reason for any game not to have solid mp. > > Two good reasons spring to mind: > > 1. The nature of rallying does not lend itself particularly to online > gaming, and > 2. RBR is essentially a port from a console title, consider the PC > community lucky to have it at all and that it's as good as it is. > > There's also the minor matter of how difficult it clearly is to do > multiplayer well. Papy titles have their collision boxes, EA titles have > their bandwidth & freezing problems etc. The problems have all but been > eradicated but /decent/ multiplayer is certainly not the norm yet. > > Given the choice of good physics or online gaming, I'd take the physics > every time. Both would be good of course, but the physics are essential > to a good simulation, multiplayer is not in this specific case. > > Now don't get me wrong I'm all for online racing, I just don't think rbr > is any less of a sim for not having it considering the nature of the > sport it simulates. > > Malc.

Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming imo. True about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no better than Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. But I hear your points.

> Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming imo. True > about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no better > than > Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. > > But I hear your points. Sounds like you're a lot more interested in track racing than rally racing. There's nothing wrong with that - RBR can't be everything to everyone.

I believe that online services are a must for the long term future of this title, for a host of reasons.The main reason would be to enable controlled online championshiips. This is what has made LFS, NR2003 and lot of other titles so successful. A community has formed around the online aspects of the game, and this is what has provided the long term value. One of the great aspects of RBR is the skills required in risk management to become a champion, as opposed to the short term thrills of "hotlapping". RBR has all the core components there, but not the structure or control to ensure fair online champsionships. If there was an online mangement system, drivers could line up for a championship, with all the stages having to be raced online. Other competitors could spectacte before and after their runs, and more importantly, the integrity of their runs would be assured. If the championship was selected to have realistic damage, then all drivers would be forced to run in this mode. One big off, and they are out of an event. It would be easy for the developers to allow synchronised weather and event order, or to enable the championship organiser to decide this. Drivers and online spectators could compare their stages with other competitors by ghosting the comparitive runs. This would provide a whole new aspect to the game, much better than just running a championship against "AI" competitors. Suddenly, the hot lappers would be up against those with the concentration and risk management skills to be true champions - just like in real life. If I was leading by 30 seconds at the final stage of an event, I would deliberately take it easy to ensure a finish, or if I was 10 seconds behind, maybe decide to take more risks to get the extra points if I needed them. I might also decide to settle for second if I was in a good position for the entire season championship. Also, I don't have a problem with multi-player ghost running, even if this doesn't happen in reality. I did a lot of this with Rally Trophy, and it was not only great fun and competition, but a great way to improve skills by watching the techniques of other in sections where they are gettting ahead. Hotlapping has serious restrictions. If you have a look at the fastest times on RBR-RANK: http://www.swedishsimracers.com/rbr/index.cfm you'll see the cars flying through the air and bouncing off the sides of cliffs. This is not so much a contraint of the damage model in RBR, but that the real-world equivilent would be to offer the drivers physical invulnerability from any crash, and an unlimted supply of $500,000 rally cars to wreck. I'm sure the real world pros could drive like that and get similar stages times for the one in ten times that they actually made it to the finish if they were offered this. Now then, imagine a hot lap system for storing replays of only stages that were completed under online champship conditions, where they only have one car per event, and will fail to finish if they heavily crash out. By the way, IMO I would like to see an even more realistic (read: tougher) car rescue system for the realistic mode. The spectators could only recover a car that rolls or goes off in a place that is feasibly recoverable (not more than 15% slope) Tim "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>> Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming imo. >> True >> about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no better >> than >> Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. >> >> But I hear your points. > > Sounds like you're a lot more interested in track racing than rally > racing. There's nothing wrong with that - RBR can't be everything to > everyone. >

Tim Epstein <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JHx5d.89894$[email hidden]... > I believe that online services are a must for the long term future of this > title, for a host of reasons.The main reason would be to enable controlled > online championshiips. > > This is what has made LFS, NR2003 and lot of other titles so successful. A > community has formed around the online aspects of the game, and this iswhat > has provided the long term value. > > One of the great aspects of RBR is the skills required in risk managementto > become a champion, as opposed to the short term thrills of "hotlapping".RBR

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> has all the core components there, but not the structure or control to > ensure fair online champsionships. > > If there was an online mangement system, drivers could line up for a > championship, with all the stages having to be raced online. Other > competitors could spectacte before and after their runs, and more > importantly, the integrity of their runs would be assured. If the > championship was selected to have realistic damage, then all drivers would > be forced to run in this mode. One big off, and they are out of an event.

It

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> would be easy for the developers to allow synchronised weather and event > order, or to enable the championship organiser to decide this. > > Drivers and online spectators could compare their stages with other > competitors by ghosting the comparitive runs. > > This would provide a whole new aspect to the game, much better than just > running a championship against "AI" competitors. Suddenly, the hot lappers > would be up against those with the concentration and risk management

skills > to be true champions - just like in real life. If I was leading by 30 > seconds at the final stage of an event, I would deliberately take it easyto

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> ensure a finish, or if I was 10 seconds behind, maybe decide to take more > risks to get the extra points if I needed them. I might also decide to > settle for second if I was in a good position for the entire season > championship. > > Also, I don't have a problem with multi-player ghost running, even if this > doesn't happen in reality. I did a lot of this with Rally Trophy, and it

was > not only great fun and competition, but a great way to improve skills by > watching the techniques of other in sections where they are getttingahead. > > Hotlapping has serious restrictions. If you have a look at the fastesttimes > on RBR-RANK: http://www.swedishsimracers.com/rbr/index.cfm > > you'll see the cars flying through the air and bouncing off the sides of > cliffs. This is not so much a contraint of the damage model in RBR, butthat > the real-world equivilent would be to offer the drivers physical > invulnerability from any crash, and an unlimted supply of $500,000 rally > cars to wreck. I'm sure the real world pros could drive like that and get > similar stages times for the one in ten times that they actually made itto

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> the finish if they were offered this. > > Now then, imagine a hot lap system for storing replays of only stages that > were completed under online champship conditions, where they only have one > car per event, and will fail to finish if they heavily crash out. > > By the way, IMO I would like to see an even more realistic (read: tougher) > car rescue system for the realistic mode. The spectators could only

recover > a car that rolls or goes off in a place that is feasibly recoverable (not > more than 15% slope) > > Tim Exactly. Other things involved too, but in terms of actually racing visibly against another online, an online rally race wouldn't be any different from say, an online GPL Ring race(or for that matter many other gpl tracks). They turn into hotlapping too, many times. Just like a rally. Be soooo much more fun against humans.

Tim Epstein wrote: > By the way, IMO I would like to see an even more realistic (read: tougher) > car rescue system for the realistic mode. The spectators could only recover > a car that rolls or goes off in a place that is feasibly recoverable (not > more than 15% slope) I actually found this afternoon how dodgy the recovery system in realistic can be... I went off the side in one of the u.s stages, recovered ok, and was in the process of driving back to the track, when a message came up telling me my car was undriveable and had to be retired. Rather annoying... and it happened a few times on that same stage, as I'd reload and do the same thing! Charlie

An online rallying sim is about as useful as an online solitaire game. Are you aware that you actually race alone? _____ Steve "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." JP wrote:

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> Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming imo. True > about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no better than > Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. > > But I hear your points. > >

Are you aware that that doesn't matter ? Read the thread. Edgecrusher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> An online rallying sim is about as useful as an online solitaire game. > > Are you aware that you actually race alone? > > _____ > > Steve > > "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." > > > > > JP wrote: > > Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming imo.

True > > about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no betterthan > > Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. > > > > But I hear your points. > > > >

"JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:8UB5d.107$[email hidden]: > Are you aware that that doesn't matter ? Read the thread. The REST of the rallye drivers could be the spectators. Yeah...we could move our virtual little people out onto the roads in the way and take flash pictures that blind the drivers....Of course any driver that KILLS one of our virtual little people could either be penalized or rewarded...then we'd have RBR/DeathRace 2004. dave henrie

Id say it does, a sim is realistic, if its realistic then you are not racing other people at the same time. If you want to race as in real life then there is no difference between racing the ai or other people. Youre the only one who seems to think online racing matters in RBR. _____ Steve "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." JP wrote:

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> Are you aware that that doesn't matter ? Read the thread. > > > Edgecrusher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>An online rallying sim is about as useful as an online solitaire game. >> >>Are you aware that you actually race alone? >> >>_____ >> >>Steve >> >>"Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." >> >> >> >> >>JP wrote: >> >>> Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming imo. > > True > >>>about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no better > > than > >>>Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. >>> >>> But I hear your points. >>> >>> > > >

<shrug> whatever. And if you think I'm the only one, you need to visit other forums. Edgecrusher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Id say it does, a sim is realistic, if its realistic then you are notracing other people at the > same time. If you want to race as in real life then there is no differencebetween racing the ai or

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> other people. > > Youre the only one who seems to think online racing matters in RBR. > > _____ > > Steve > > "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." > > > > > JP wrote: > > Are you aware that that doesn't matter ? Read the thread. > > > > > > Edgecrusher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > >>An online rallying sim is about as useful as an online solitaire game. > >> > >>Are you aware that you actually race alone? > >> > >>_____ > >> > >>Steve > >> > >>"Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>JP wrote: > >> > >>> Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming imo. > > > > True > > > >>>about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no better > > > > than > > > >>>Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. > >>> > >>> But I hear your points. > >>> > >>> > > > > > >

> <shrug> whatever. And if you think I'm the only one, you need to visit > other forums. It'd be nice but for the developers it would have to be a low priority in the grand scheme of things. There's hundreds of things they *could* add to the game but it's all about priorities and let's face it - this game has come far closer to providing a simulation of rally driving than any other game has even dreamed of. Rally Trophy has multiplayer - maybe you'd prefer to play it instead?

Actaully, Only in the highest forms of rallying do you not see cars being passed (other drivers) and hell last year I saw Burns himself get passed to passing others stuck in snowbanks and such. Why wouldnt multiplayer be neat? each person gets what, 1 minute delayed start, each person could have a ghost car show up on a readout screen much like thy use on WRSC? I think that could be fun to "lead" a few guys around the turns Oh well, dreaming Im sure Edgecrusher enlightened us with:

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> Id say it does, a sim is realistic, if its realistic then you are not > racing other people at the same time. If you want to race as in real > life then there is no difference between racing the ai or other > people. > Youre the only one who seems to think online racing matters in RBR. > > _____ > > Steve > > "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." > > > > > JP wrote: >> Are you aware that that doesn't matter ? Read the thread. >> >> >> Edgecrusher <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> >>> An online rallying sim is about as useful as an online solitaire >>> game. Are you aware that you actually race alone? >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> JP wrote: >>> >>>> Any game, including rallying, would benefit from online gaming >>>> imo. >> >> True >> >>>> about how hard it is to do well, but for christs sake, RBR is no >>>> better >> >> than >> >>>> Crammonds mp, which isn't even EA quality. >>>> >>>> But I hear your points.

Plowboy2 wrote:

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> Actaully, Only in the highest forms of rallying do you not see cars > being passed (other drivers) and hell last year I saw Burns himself > get passed to passing others stuck in snowbanks and such. Why > wouldnt multiplayer be neat? each person gets what, 1 minute delayed > start, each person could have a ghost car show up on a readout screen > much like thy use on WRSC? I think that could be fun to "lead" a few > guys around the turns Oh well, dreaming Im sure

While I think that would be great, it'd actually kinda suck for players. It's the same reason they let you skip the formation laps in various games...it's just annoyingly long and tedious if you're only playing a game. Imagine if you had a 6 stage rally with 16 players, and they each started a couple of minutes apart on a ~5 minute stage. That's an AWFUL lot of waiting around to play. Beyond that, you're sure to get some people who just drape their cars across the track to screw things up. I'd love to see the ability to have lots of players run simultaneously, without ghosts, but verified times and all required to use the same damage settings. There'd need to be the ability to kick a player who does things like stop in the middle of a stage just to keep everyone stuck waiting for them, but it'd be a decent multiplayer.

JP wrote: > <shrug> whatever. And if you think I'm the only one, you need to visit > other forums. Hmm, that's one of the reasons I'm reading here, not there... l8er ronny

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> > > Edgecrusher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>Id say it does, a sim is realistic, if its realistic then you are not > > racing other people at the > >>same time. If you want to race as in real life then there is no difference > > between racing the ai or > >>other people. >> >>Youre the only one who seems to think online racing matters in RBR.

Edgecrusher <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: >>>An online rallying sim is about as useful as an online solitaire >>>game. >>> >>>Are you aware that you actually race alone? >>> Except in the super special stages and the annual Race of Champions, both of which would be a good excuse to build online race arenas. Even a cheap rally cross track would be nice, given RBRs loose surface modelling. My favourite part of Colin 2 was the online arcade racing- having the option to do that in a sim of RBR's calibre would be very nice. I can see it not being a particular priority for the developers, not to mention a lot of extra work. Just saying. Cheers John

JM wrote:

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> Except in the super special stages and the annual Race of Champions, > both of which would be a good excuse to build online race arenas. > Even a cheap rally cross track would be nice, given RBRs loose > surface modelling. > > My favourite part of Colin 2 was the online arcade racing- having the > option to do that in a sim of RBR's calibre would be very nice. I > can see it not being a particular priority for the developers, not to > mention a lot of extra work. > > Just saying. > > Cheers John

I think that the lack of super specials might be more due to the graphics engine than the ability to make a good multiplayer. Given the framerates I get on a pretty beefy machine, I wonder if a second car on screen would just be too much for anything but the most powerful machines to handle reasonably.