DAYTONA, SEGA, PAPYRUS, NASCAR, TURN2/3

Sorry for my "more questions than answers" report, but here goes: For the first time, I played the SEGA Daytona game this weekend. The Putt-Putt in Raleigh, NC has four stations setup so it is possible for four human cars to be racing at the same time. It is a four token game, and tokens are 100 for $20. 80 cents a game per person. It was the only thing to do when we arrived at the go-cart track just in time for the rain to start. The game offers three tracks - beginner (8 laps at Daytona?) - intermediate (4 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?) - expert (2 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?) I guess the 8 lap race is supposed to be like the real Daytona??? But with trees overhanging the racetrack???? No way!!! It looked sort-of like Taladega, except the tough corner at Daytona was turn two. (The turn at the end of the long straighaway.) The graphics looked "atari" like. Unrealistic. Sure, the cars could flip upside down, but it was unrealistic. I know, this is an arcade game and NASCAR is a simulation. The AI was not as good as NASCAR racing by Papyrus. There were pits, but why would you ever pit in an eight lap race? The cars seemed to fix themselves just fine without pitting? Papyrus gets even more credit and appreciation from me now that I have seen this arcade game. Sega calls this game Daytona. Why? One of the three tracks that you can race using this arcade machine is a tri-oval like Daytona? But the other two are definately road courses. And this is what is keeping Papyrus from adding the Daytona track to their NASCAR game? Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be a hero and make some phone calls! Surely someone having one track in a game that is a simulation of the entire NASCAR schedule is different enough from an arcade game named DAYTONA to allow a clever lawyer to make a business arrangement. If this has already been tried, please let the internet community understand the roadblocks so we can work on them? If Jed at "The Pits" or anyone else can change Taladega enough to look like Daytona, is it true that turn 2 is the "tough" turn at Daytona as opposed to turn 3 at Taladega? Jed, it this one of the things you are already capable of doing? Happy racing! Daytonaless in Raleigh

(Robert Huggins) writes:

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>Sorry for my "more questions than answers" report, but here goes: >For the first time, I played the SEGA Daytona game this weekend. >The Putt-Putt in Raleigh, NC has four stations setup so it is >possible for four human cars to be racing at the same time. >It is a four token game, and tokens are 100 for $20. >80 cents a game per person. It was the only thing to do when >we arrived at the go-cart track just in time for the rain to >start. >The game offers three tracks > - beginner (8 laps at Daytona?) > - intermediate (4 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?) > - expert (2 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?) >I guess the 8 lap race is supposed to be like the real Daytona??? >But with trees overhanging the racetrack???? No way!!! >It looked sort-of like Taladega, except the tough corner at Daytona >was turn two. (The turn at the end of the long straighaway.) >The graphics looked "atari" like. Unrealistic. >Sure, the cars could flip upside down, but it was unrealistic. >I know, this is an arcade game and NASCAR is a simulation. >The AI was not as good as NASCAR racing by Papyrus. >There were pits, but why would you ever pit in an eight lap race? >The cars seemed to fix themselves just fine without pitting? >Papyrus gets even more credit and appreciation from me now that I have >seen this arcade game. >Sega calls this game Daytona. Why? One of the three tracks that you >can race using this arcade machine is a tri-oval like Daytona? But >the other two are definately road courses. And this is what is >keeping Papyrus from adding the Daytona track to their NASCAR game? >Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through >this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be >a hero and make some phone calls! Surely someone having one track in >a game that is a simulation of the entire NASCAR schedule is different >enough from an arcade game named DAYTONA to allow a clever lawyer to >make a business arrangement. If this has already been tried, please >let the internet community understand the roadblocks so we can work on >them? >If Jed at "The Pits" or anyone else can change Taladega enough to look >like Daytona, is it true that turn 2 is the "tough" turn at Daytona as >opposed to turn 3 at Taladega? Jed, it this one of the things you are >already capable of doing? >Happy racing! >Daytonaless in Raleigh

i agree but it is an asume sim. datona usa would be a hilght if and when the use it on computers but how did distruction derby turn out better or wers

We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't sublicense it to us. Case closed. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

>Case closed. That would be bad news for all of us. I sent them e-mail, start your stopwatch, let's check their pulse. Can you send me any names, phone numbers or e-mail addresses of the contacts that might already be familiar with this question? Best wishes! Robert Huggins

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> (Robert Huggins) writes: > >Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through > >this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be > >a hero and make some phone calls! > We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it > doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't > sublicense it to us. Case closed. > Rick Genter > Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II > Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

daytona....Can't you guys just release the exact track but call it something else. There are ways around licensing. Haven't you ever played any sports games. Tecno Bowl football for nintendo couldn't use Jim Kelly's name, so they just called him QB Bills. Cannot you release a track called Florida or something. It could be a fictional track that just happens to have the exact same specs as the actual Daytona track.... Same thing with Indy.... Just a thought. Justin -- *********************************************** Justin VonHagen, Malvern PA USA http://www.csc.vill.edu/~vonhagen Is that enough? I could give more. ***********************************************

> We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it > doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't > sublicense it to us. Case closed. I'm venting Rick so bear with. I write this in hopes that one of the morons that works at Sega will print this out and take it into the oval office at that behemoth. They can sit there and laugh until their sales start going down. Daytona USA is a _stupid_game_, created by people who could give less than an act of *** *** about racing. I am infuriated that a legend in racing could be turned into a toy for children. I have stated this before and I will say it again; I vehemently refuse to purchase ANY product created or marketed by Sega. I will advise anyone who asks me my opinion for purchases of *** equipment NOT to buy Sega. I will not soon forget that Sega has forced it's way into _my_life and precluded me from a complete racing experience for no other reason than to further their own capital gains at the cost of a company who truly endeavors to bring racing fans a geniune and realistic experience in the area of virtual driving. If Sega thinks they are going to lure myself, or any other True Racing Fan away from the Papyrus simulators simply by buying and cloistering Daytona away from any other developer, THEY ARE DEAD WRONG! Sega: Take your money-flashing power-play and shove it. You've made yourself an enemy. I also have to express my dissappointment with ISC for ignoring their paying customers in order to be bought off by these thugs. Enough. I'm off to turn some laps. Don't bother to bootleg Daytona either, anyone, I don't want to race there anymore. Later MMc It's a great day for big business, isn't it? > Rick Genter > Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II > Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Now I don't feel so bad about buying a P150, 32 meg of ram and a 20" monitor for NASCAR...and at least I have something to show for the money I spent! If Sega says it's real, you'd better believe it or they'll buy you and brainwash you. If Mother Sega says that trees will overhang the track at Daytona, ISC will fire all the gardeners. Who needs realism? All you want to do when you race is crash and get chocolate all over your face. So thinks Sega Doesn't matter. All racers want to do is crash. So thinks Sega. Pit?! Naw! Too much thought involved. So thinks... Because it's an Icon, a crown jewel. racing's jewel, Sega's crown. Nope. _Power_ is. Power gained from _your_ money. Ain't that scary? Actually, and you can tell me to drop dead if you wanna, but I think Papyrus is a hero for just putting up with all this whining and crying, much of which I have done myself. Don't you think they'd put that track in the sim in a heartbeat if it was at all feasible. Would you rather have Papy pull a gray area trick, get sued by Sega, end up getting put out of business by Sega, and then we have nothing left but Sega 'simulators'? I'd rather play Stunts... or Vette for that matter. Yeah yeah, I know, Sierra owns 'em now, but prudent business practices still prevail. You think Sierra is gonna declare ***WWIII over a race-track? Yeah I know, that'd make you happy and me too, but get real. Best thing you can do is stop chuckin' 80 cents in that machine! Man, I'm pissed. 8{

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>> (Robert Huggins) writes: >> >Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through >> >this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be >> >a hero and make some phone calls! >> We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it >> doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't >> sublicense it to us. Case closed. >> Rick Genter >> Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II >> Papyrus Design Group, Inc. >daytona....Can't you guys just release the exact track but call it >something else. There are ways around licensing. Haven't you ever >played any sports games. Tecno Bowl football for nintendo couldn't use >Jim Kelly's name, so they just called him QB Bills. Cannot you release >a track called Florida or something. It could be a fictional track that >just happens to have the exact same specs as the actual Daytona >track.... >Same thing with Indy.... >Just a thought. >Justin

I think Justin is on to something here. I would be happy with a track called Florida or something like that. A Windy 500 <bg> track would be kinda nice also, especially in glorious SVGA. Karl

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>(Robert Huggins) writes: >>--- legible message omitted for brevity---- >i agree but it is an asume sim. datona usa would be a hilght if and when >the use it on computers but how did distruction derby turn out better or >wers

Where the *** did you learn to spell? And how about some punctuation!? Jeeze, am I tired of this. /=================================================\ | John Simmons (Redneck Techno-Biker) | | http://www.paddedwall.org/john \=================================================/

>Subject: Re: DAYTONA, SEGA, PAPYRUS, NASCAR, TURN2/3 >Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 18:47:07 -0800 [snip] I feel the same way, except most of the people I try to warn away from Sega have children. They want a CHEAP TOY to occupy the brats with... You and a few hundred other people...sadly, I don't think we're a large enough influence. Ok, what's ISC? Eldred I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!? Eldred Pickett

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>Subject: Re: DAYTONA, SEGA, PAPYRUS, NASCAR, TURN2/3 >Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 14:10:58 GMT >>(Robert Huggins) writes: >>>--- legible message omitted for brevity---- >>i agree but it is an asume sim. datona usa would be a hilght if and when >>the use it on computers but how did distruction derby turn out better or >>wers >Where the *** did you learn to spell? And how about some punctuation!? >Jeeze, am I tired of this.

It's our public education system at work...<g> I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!? Eldred Pickett

if youre tired of this, stop subscribing to this newsgroup...thats why this group is here....for people to post questions, however simple they may be.

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>>Case closed. >That would be bad news for all of us. >I sent them e-mail, start your stopwatch, let's check their pulse. >Can you send me any names, phone numbers or e-mail addresses of the >contacts that might already be familiar with this question? >Best wishes! >Robert Huggins

Hey Rick Genter. Are you there? Checking your pulse now. Best wishes! Robert Huggins

: I feel the same way, except most of the people I try to warn away from Sega : have children. They want a CHEAP TOY to occupy the brats with... : > If Sega thinks they are going to lure myself, or any other True : >Racing Fan away from the Papyrus simulators simply by buying and : >cloistering Daytona away from any other developer, THEY ARE DEAD WRONG! : > Sega: Take your money-flashing power-play and shove it. You've : >made yourself an enemy. There is only one small thing that no one has mentined yet. Sega is the only company to produce a Virtual style Rally racing game. Considering that we in the United States (those of us who live here) are deprived of Rallying on any normal scale (like every other country in the world has on TV), we (those of us who are SCCA Pro-Rallyists) have to put up with Nascar etc all the time. Sega Rally is a great break back into the highest form of high-performance endurance racing around. Now if only the games were more like a real rally and not a RallyCross (In real rallys for those of you that don't know, DON'T repeat the same section of a course at all, ever.) That's my $0.02 worth. N.E. Div SCCA Solo I/Hillclimb Racer - 4 Top-5 finishes in the 1995 Season Looking for Crew Members and Alternate Co-Drivers for '97 Season - Email Us!

I'm here. I have no e-mail addresses or contacts for Sega. Sorry. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Just say Nintendo! Loud can make up for large. Make your opinion heard International Speedway Corporation. They own Daytona, Talladega, The Glen and Darlington. They're a nice bunch and very promptly replied to my mail, but they still let Sega have the ball again. :( Later MMc

[...] : There is only one small thing that no one has mentined yet. Sega : is the only company to produce a Virtual style Rally racing game. : Considering that we in the United States (those of us who live here) are : deprived of Rallying on any normal scale (like every other country in the : world has on TV), we (those of us who are SCCA Pro-Rallyists) have to put : up with Nascar etc all the time. Sega Rally is a great break back into : the highest form of high-performance endurance racing around. Now if : only the games were more like a real rally and not a RallyCross (In real : rallys for those of you that don't know, DON'T repeat the same section of : a course at all, ever.) : That's my $0.02 worth. Yes. I would be one of the first in line for something like a Baja 500 type simulator. The off-roadness would sure be fun in a serious type simulator. Peripherals in the sim could include what to take as extra equipment for small breakdowns, weather, vehicle type and of course the local youngsters that like to play chicken with the vehicles at the burms. Matt

Right. Anyway, if the guy you were replying to was so concerned about punctuation and grammar, he would know not to start a sentence with "and". Just call me Mr. Pedantic... ;) I think we should stick to what matters - I bet Senna's English wasn't quite as good as it could have been but it didn't seem to hinder his driving.... Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ -=Ayrton Senna=- \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ Racing is in my ***, it's part of me \::/ \._______\

Just edit the calender file and stick in another Taladega event at the start of the season... since Taladega is so much like Daytona. By the way...what's a sega?