I'm mad Damnit! - PAPYRUS/SIERRA = CRAP???

This has been eating at me for over a month now.... Time to get it off my chest: Ok, Lets face it. NASCAR and ICR are both fantastic simulators in my opinion for the more serious sim. nut. No arguments there... HOWEVER! How many of you out there share my concern that this merger/takeover/buyout or whatever the hell it is by Sierra is going to spell DOOM for the gang at papyrus? I have been running sims./games since the mid 80's on pc's. I own many Sierra titles. Alot of them I like, some of them I like alot is a matter of fact. But that is just what they are, a "game" company. I watched them do this with flight simulators. Sierra wanted a piece of the Flight Simulator Market wene it exploded, so the got Dynamix. What happened? A bunch of big inaccurate (both physically and historically) , 'graphics better than accurate gameplay' flight sims. I gave them the benefit of the doubt with the first A-10 Tank Killer, then with Red Baron THEN still with the Aces over the pacific/europe collection. I recently had the chance to view a freinds copy of the newer A-10 sim. It too in my opinion is substandard. Now it would seem they want a peice of the Driving Sim. market! Is this what we have to look forward too?? Dont get me wrong!! PAPYRUS sims. are the BEST in my opinion. Hell , everyone has thier gripes about the software companies. But I can't ever remember exchanging mail with the people at Sierra about thier products! And I see the papyrus gang around here all the time! Well, we DID! up until (last post I remember was about 2 weeks ago?) And I'm not bashing that great guy from papyrus who talks with us all. For all I know he could just be busy with other things, vacation maybe.. OR has sierra already put a***on our buddies?? Hmm.... Ya gotta have a little account to access the website now?? Come on! No doubt put in place by Sierra's College boy pencilneck marketing crew. Basically, I would bet that there is some major big plans that the designers at PAPYRUS had. And there is definately some talent in that stable without a doubt. But again I watched sierra put a ***hold on the crew at dynamix with some Air sims. It seems Sierra had their own agenda of what the public wanted and the Dynamix guys ended up bieng their rats. Are we destined for software marketed as True to life racing sims. (of all types) only to end up with modified versions of stuff like "wacky wheels"? "which btw: if ya like wacky wheels so be it" I dunno, but I can't get the Sierra/Dynamix scenario outta my head. What ever happened to Pride? The fella who Started Papyrus had a damn good thing going, I personally feel he blew it. If Sierra runs papyrus into the ground as I fear they will, And I **DO** hope I'm wrong. I'd ask the creator of the papyrus gang, "was it worth it?" And if any of the Sierra gang is watching especially the marketing guys? ' Ya don't know a damn thing about what the Simulator community really wants!' ' Ya did a good job with Kings Quest/Police Quest stay in that end of this buisness. Leave this end the hell alone! Worthless Ramblings........... Andy Debate welcome:

I was out last week while my wife and I moved into a new house. I've spent most of this week trying to catch up. We've retained a *LOT* of our creative control through the acquisition; I don't think you should assume that Papyrus simulations will change much due to the acquisition. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Congrats on the move, Best wishes to you and yours :) Rick, From the bottom of my heart I want to believe that, and I will be Man enuff to stand and admit it *if* Sierra's people prove me wrong! And beleive me I hope they do for EVERYONE'S sake. You guys (papyrus) have provided me with many hours of enjoyment and 3 great titles. And am very anxious like many others to see what we get to replace NASCAR. NASCAR 2.0 hopefully! As far as your tech. support folks go and there are always going to be mixed feelings on this... I have nothing but good to say about you guys there. But for me personally and as a consumer, that was the key to Papyrus. GOOD! quality sims. and Damn good people. As I stated in my previous post. I watched this happen with Dynamix. Maybe that was because someone with them backed down to Sierra's people. Maybe not. I just would hate to see that happen to you folks. I have accepted the fact that you guys can't say very much on anything in the future. I respect that. And I recognize that in the past you've always been ready to answer questions here regarding your companys product. Also very admirable. These kinda things are what puts faith in a company to me. As I said you've always been as straight with us as you could be. And if your telling me you guys are gonna make it thru this ok. And you don't feel the quality/content will suffer? Than I have no reason to doubt you. But... Fact is unfortunately it's no longer JUST Papyrus involved. and right or wrong alot of us don't trust Sierra! I respect you won't be able to elaborate on this much... Thanks for listening Rick, Andy A Toms River, NJ

said... I am also concerned. The only Sierra products I've ever owned are the "Front Page Sports Football" series. When FPSF and FPSFPro were released under the Dynamix label, those two football games were leaps-and-bounds ahead of the competition, and there was a pretty clear indication that Dynamix listened to FPSF owners and incorporated most of their suggestions into FPSFPro. However, when Sierra began the takeover of Dynamix, things started to change. IMO, the progression between Pro->Pro95->Pro96 was not there. Many suggestions that were made by FPSFPro owners to improve the game were not incorporated into new versions. Most of the improvements only occured in graphics. Although FPSFPro95 and FPSFPro96 are still the two best football games around, other competitors are catching up because Sierra hasn't been willing to make decent improvements to the FPSF product. Now, Sierra has said that FPSFPro97 will incorporate features we have been clamoring for, but they said that about FPSFPro96 too. I first thought that the Sierra takeover of Papyrus might be a good thing; Papyrus would get an influx of money from Sierra to develop products that would include more of the things we wanted. However, the more I thought about it, the more I believe that we NASCAR/ICR owners may have to suffer a little. Rick Genter hasn't been seen on r.a.s for a while. The ICR2 patch still hasn't been released yet. The Papyrus BBS still hasn't been fully integrated into Sierra BBS yet. Is this a trend indicating the effect of the Sierra takeover of Papyrus? Hopefully I'm wrong... Well, software creation IS a business. I hope Sierra is listening. -- +------------------------+---------------------------------+ | G. Warren Abao | BBL AFC Central Standings | +------------------------+Provo 13 1 0 434 115| | Owner/GM/Head Coach |Pittsburgh 10 4 0 617 387| | Jacksonville Jaguars |JAGUARS 7 7 0 363 345| | Black and Blue League |Texas State 1 13 0 143 563| +------------------------+-------------+-------------------+ | Official BBL Jaguars Website: | SPOOOOOOOOOOON!!! | | http://www.jaxnet.com/~wabao/jax.htm +-------------------+ +--------------------------------------+

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>This has been eating at me for over a month now.... >Time to get it off my chest: >Ok, Lets face it. NASCAR and ICR are both fantastic simulators in my >opinion for the more serious sim. nut. No arguments there... >HOWEVER! How many of you out there share my concern that this >merger/takeover/buyout or whatever the hell it is by Sierra is going >to spell DOOM for the gang at papyrus? I have been running sims./games

I agree as well. We already got a taste of what Sierra can do. No more Win95 version of NASCAR. Before the take over, it was coming out. EXACTLY! Flight sims are one of my favorites, and Sierra has YET to make a realistic one. Too late, Papyrus has already "died". Andy [link lost in import: /~ridger] ***/Nascar/Kali/Win95 stuff.

: :>We've retained a *LOT* of our creative control through the acquisition; I :>don't think you should assume that Papyrus simulations will change much :>due to the acquisition. We'll just have to wait for Indycar Quest III, Nascar Laffer XIV, the Indy Police 500 Track Pack. ----------------------------------------- - This message was brought to you by - - - "Gnag, voah wnag" -----------------------------------------

This had nothing to do with the takeover. We were already leaning toward not doing a Windows 95 port of NASCAR Racing before the acquisition occurred. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Papyrus Design Group, Inc.